Looking at the Derby market o'brien is .........................

HENRY.... Think they call it No Talk All Trousers when it comes to SNA ... Surely not even the most devoted media ****s can promote this set of shady dealers again after the bull they have come out with for this modern day Pegasus ... Put up or shut up looks like they should now shut up but don't count on it.

The best thing that can happen for the game is this bunch of scheisters being confined to the equine dustbin.

Hoping HRAC can get the ammo he would take this chancer and his backers apart. Really hoping Bullet Train or Workforce can pull it off and be better than beating a 33/1 shot one and a half lengths in a Group 3 last time. Surely if Pegasus couldn't do this and better they have a lot of geese dressed as swans.

Again

I've got a dislike for them as well. They ran SNA in the guineas and have ruined his derby chance, as well as sending horses half cooked to classics and telling everyone lies about the derby. If i had it my way they'd be banned from racing over here for 2 years.

They are making total fools of themselves ....throwing darts again after claiming they have Pegasus in the stable who isn't even going to run due to a convenient poor gallop the week before they have to put their balls on the line ...turns out they haven't got any.

Very disappointing i would love to see BULLET TRAIN AND WORKFORCE IMPEDE THEIR HORSE AND WIN AND NOT LOSE IT IN THE TV STEWARDS i think they have tragically ruined a great race they can patronise us to the cows come home but we are not as thick as scared journalists they should rip them to pieces for this....Tommo will be all over them like a rash saying steady big fella whats the ground like out there ffs has anybody read anything in the press condemning their behaviour

i think you lot must be on drugs.

no, its not us on drugs, perhaps the dante winner is though

Much of that stuff is awful prejudiced and libelous drivel, and probably pocket talk too.

What have they done wrong?

Their communication has been open and clear. no-one has been deliberately misled.

I have not been impressed by the Coolmore hype machine at times, but I really don't see what the fuss is about this year. They have 4 horses all of which would be Derby runners if they were with different stables. They have decided, as usual, that nothing will be decided until near the Derby. They have kept people informed about the gallops work.

If you don't like that I don't see what you would want from them.

I would be cautious about accusing people of lying. Quite aside from the legal implications, it says rather more about you than it odes about anyone else, and not a very nice something either.

If the insatiable media weren't ringing them up every 2 mins, they wouldn't have to say anything (like 20 yrs ago) and we'd all be none the wiser. They have a handful of quality 3-y-os and the pecking order has changed during the first few months of the season...this is what happens with young horses. SNA wont be the first horse not to train on to be as good as he was when a very good 2-y-o....you cant expect them (given the breeding concerns) to come out and say, 'Yeah, Thommo, he's gone. Put a line thru him.'

It has nothing to do with horses not training on ..  It has a lot to do with hyping up horses to the hilt to the degree they have a ridiculously prominent position in markets. It may bring more lustre for Breeders if a horse does go on to win a Classic as a strong fav rather than a 12/1shot but if it doesn't punters are left to pay the price of their big mouths and it's failure.

There is no point saying it doesn't matter as in ante post markets it does as it drastically distorts the markets to the degree we had a Montjeu at around 5/4 to win a v competitive Guineas ... Never heard or read so much rubbish on it's chances in that to ramp it's price down.

Ok you could say ignore them and the brain dead press who pass it on without question however they are a major player and the majority like it or not will always believe what they say re the ability of their horses. This distorts the markets which may be ok for layers but definitely not backers. Be glad to see the back of them as a backer.

They are totally wrecking the colts Classic markets with their hype relating to breeding which is more than willingly taken advantage of by the bookies laying 5 gambles on the stables runners, they can't all win people, and the news presented quickly from a trade paper heavily subsidised by bookmakers. Once it all settles down then you often see the money on here before an announcement is made taking more cash from punters those in the know taking advantage of topsy turvy markets. Total joke and wrecking the Classic markets.

''It has a lot to do with hyping up horses to the hilt to the degree they have a ridiculously prominent position in markets.''


SNA went 3/1 for Derby immediately after RP Trophy ie no hype. Hope this helps.

If you can't see what their game is re breeding and hype you ought to give the game up mate. 5/4 the Guineas and recently 6/4 the Derby ... Surprise surprise balls on the line time and the hype has to move on to something else to suit them.

Oh great example by the way ... After winning the Racing Post Trophy a real class horse worthy of hype, unlike the animals from this stable, Motivator was 12/1 and went on to win, go figure with your long wait for your 'value' 3/1 loser.

After telling you it is Pegasus all winter they have no qualms whatsoever in pulling it the week before the race after your cash is well and truly on off the back of their hype

Hilarious thing is it is as they decided it only performed as well as another of the stables runners who is in all likelihood going to run itself. In spite of all this people like you let them take your pants down time and again for your 'value' 3/1 nearly a year in advance ... The human race is in danger IMO.

Who creates the hype? Coolmore or the bookies and the racing press?

Don't remember Coolmore running many books recently fwiw

kirk st. moritz     Joined: 04 Feb 07
Replies: 586 31 May 10 08:44 
After telling you it is Pegasus all winter they have no qualms whatsoever in pulling it the week before the race after your cash is well and truly on off the back of their hype

The only thing I can say about this is that if after the Guineas you thought that SNA was a good price at 3 for the Derby you need your head examined.

Just as there are lazy journos that won't look in depth into a story before printer there are lazy punters who never see past the favourite.

Surely a false favourite actually offers everyone value in the shape of laying the horse and getting on others at artificially higher prices.

Obligatory stupid you are not clever like me post. A quid for every one of those comebacks on here.

I take horses when they aren't fav in the vast majority of cases as do most on here ... Now get yourself back down the bookies and start reading posts properly next time you manage to log in ok.

Cryoftruth the word you forgot was honest do you really think they have told us everything,this is a fekkin high profile race to be treating us like children im sure all those concerned laid off before the announcement of the gamble on JV ,this has nothing to do with bookies or media hype its what came from Ballydoyle coincidence the horse didnt SPARKLE so close to the Derby are they just cushioning the blow for punters when he is withdrawn or will he show up run 6th or tail off not right they bigged up the horse i do not have any money on SNA i just think they are treating punters with contempt and ruining a great race and there is not to my knowledge one journalist worth a fekkin light in the almost masonic racing industry who has written a scathing piece about them regarding the Derby about SNA +Cape Blanco after Dante

few weeks ago, others running for a place, this horse has 8 gears, ok we know this is crap coming out of murtagh and team,  i rememer cecil running 2 one year, one was hot fav afterwinning the dante, and another comm in chief, cecil said after york, were running comm as we think the other might not stay , everyone knew where they stood, i agree they are treating punters with contempt, and midas t 9/1 one day out to over 20 , then 9 again, the same with cape, drifting , then punted on, then drifts again, and not just a few points.

Can't trust Aidan, but then again you should all know that. My Cape Blanco fund looking good now, PULL ST NIC OUT NOW AIDAN!

Kirk,
I can't help feeling you're being a bit intemperate here. Firstly, they didn't need to hype up SNA after his RPT win. It was racecourse evidence.
Secondly, you say they are ruining ante post markets - yet surely the opposite is true when we have a 5-4 fav for Guineas who can 't win - and who you knew very well was no value at all. So how does that run the market - rather, it makes the market for people like you!!

Not once did Coolmore hype him up over Winter.

A load of rubbish written by many on here who believe AOB should contact Betfair users to tell them who is going to win a race.

requestingflyby,
I agree with your point regarding SNA,I think its true to say they almost sat back and said nothing,I think they were careful NOT to hype him up,that for me speaks volumes.

Who was responsible for hyping SNA up on this forum ?

.

Said nothing eh?


Speaking on Channel 4's The Morning Line O'Brien said: "St Nicholas Abbey worked with Midas Touch on Friday and worked as well as him but that was the unusual thing, normally St Nicholas Abbey works head and shoulders above everything.

"He did a piece of work on Tuesday and Johnny was over the moon with him but he was a little bit disappointed on Friday morning so we decided to let everybody know.

"The problem with training horses is that everyone is different, there is no rule. His work was good, he worked very well.

"Colm (O'Donoghue) rode Midas Touch and he thought he had improved a lot from Leopardstown so that's also there but usually St Nicholas Abbey is head and shoulders above everything, he's the most incredible worker you've ever seen.
"I suppose it might have just taken Johnny back a bit that he just worked as well as Midas Touch.

That is not how books work. You dont look to make extremely late drastic adjustments to a book when everything has all but shortened anyway and the value is not there any more. They have ruined antepost markets and this is just the latest example.


Howellsy Joined: 17 Mar 03
Replies: 52 31 May 10 13:56   


Kirk,
I can't help feeling you're being a bit intemperate here. Firstly, they didn't need to hype up SNA after his RPT win. It was racecourse evidence.
Secondly, you say they are ruining ante post markets - yet surely the opposite is true when we have a 5-4 fav for Guineas who can 't win - and who you knew very well was no value at all. So how does that run the market - rather, it makes the market for people like you!!

push     31 May 10 14:45 
Who was responsible for hyping SNA up on this forum ?

Yes I have because he did look so good yes I was and am a big fan, thing is though I don't at all mind being wrong,anyone who has seen that horse work i'm sure would take the same view and to add one more point about hype you and a few others talked up to death and one or two still do STEINBECK you all think he shows huge promise when he was beat yet when SNA got stuffed thats it he is no good if you want a hype horse thats it,the point though is Push that Ballydoyle never hyped him this winter.Johnny Murtagh is imo panicking being No1 jock'he is not wanting to make a bollox knowing K.Fallon may get the other horse,it would make me laugh if he gets the ride on SNA and beats Murtagh

Prima Donna no disrespect there have been quite a few with breeding background on here who are not too good at seeing the reality of a horses prospects on all known evidence (which isnt always available with this mob as we know). SNA looks like he is done ... will we see him again, he must be the most hyped horse since I started following the flat. Steinbeck is yet to have a clear run at it but has shown a lot of promise and has had nowhere near the hype pasted from O'Brien below on SNA.

They are bad for everyone other than themselves and bookies.

err kirk those comments were from saturday. provide something they said to hype him up over the winter.

So, Prima, you a Fawwon Fawner too? J Murtgh is a brilliant jock and a great sportsman. Although many a bed would be wet if Fallon went back to Ballydoyle or won the Derby, ya da, ya da, ya da, he will never take Johnny's job.

Yank,

I'm intrigued as to how much Kirk may have had on him...

'Total joke and wrecking the Classic markets.'

shouldn't that read:

'Total joke and wrecking my Classic markets.'

The stable have no balls basically they are all talk and no trousers.


January

... he described his current 2,000 Guineas and Derby favourite St Nicholas Abbey as "unusual" yesterday.

The son of Montjeu remained unbeaten through his two-year-old campaign and created a huge impression when waltzing away with the Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster in October.

"Everyone saw last year that he looked a very unusual horse," said O'Brien.

"He's by Montjeu, but he has loads of speed and obviously loads of class.



April pre Guineas

"St Nicholas Abbey seems to be in good form, his preparation has gone well and he has thrived through the winter," the trainer explained

April again .. only he isnt letting the horse do the talking.

At this stage, anything is possible. "Last year is last year and this year is this year," he says, "and we always try to look forward. Everyone has an opinion and they can voice it if they want, but it's often best to let the horse do the talking."



Early May .. hyping him as their number 1 ALWAYS while at the same time saying he is not hyping him... hilarious.


The trainer said: "He was a highly rated two-year-old and you dream that the ability is still there.

"He has always been the number one contender and nothing has changed about that.

"I will let him defend himself. I am not trying to blow him up or hype him - I will let him show you.

"I say watch him. I hope he gets to Epsom in good shape and we can enjoy watching him.

"He has to stand up and do it, but he has to be forgiven for what happened in the Guineas."



"He has always been very natural and we have always felt that all we could do is to spoil him. He doesn't take much training and has a very strong mind.

"He has to step up, but I think it is in there. It was circumstance that beat him at Newmarket.

"I was not worried about the trip going there as his times had been as good as all of the good milers we have had, and he was doing it easily - on the bridle.

I agree that there has been hype from the OB yard. I remember when Galileo was entered for the July Cup because he had so "much speed". However are they any worse than others. I remember being put away by a Sir M.Stoute 1000 Guineas winner who drifted from 3 to 9/1 because she "wasn't ready".
I can't remember how many "best horse we have ever trained/ridden/galloped" statements have been shown to be untrue over the years.
I don't think the ante post markets are ruined by hype. They are made less fun by a single stable having so many top class horses. This was true when Godolphin were at their most successful, when you could back a horse for a classic only for it to go for the kentucky Derby or to France.

If people thought that SNA was bad value at 9/4 or less with months to go before the Derby, as I did, they had the option on this market, to lay the horse, just as they can back him now at 7/1 if they want. The ante post market, especially since the days of Betfair, only reflect the money that people are willing to back or lay. Its no use blaming trainers for the price of horses. Prices are influenced a bit by trainers' staements but not that much. In any event, the Ballydoyle "hype" has not been far from the truth. Look at King Of Kings, backed heavily for the Guineas even before he ran and despite having unproven form winning brilliantly when may came round. Even Istabraq's first Champion hurdle was a victory for  a horse with rather more reputation than substance at the time. There have been many others too. I believe that they thought SNA was the dogsboll0x, and maybe they still hope he will be. I do not believe they have set out to mislead punters for the sake of the value of SNA as a stallion.

In any event what is the problem. If you see a horse run and make your own judgement as to its merits, it doesn't much matter what a trainer says.

jair1970 .. you wouldnt know jack about antepost mate not worth the effort with you.

SNA wont even run is my opinion.
But I do believe Midas Touch could be the Value.

"all talk and no trousers" - well the facts are that the stable have out performed every other stable in Europe for years in terms of the volume of group 1 winners and will continue toi for a while yet.

Aiden OB was an ace trainer of horses before he got the Coolmore zillions; he was recognised, rightly, as a superb innovative trainer over the jumps, and his attnetion to detail for each of his horses is excellent.

Compare, pound for pound what he achieves, to what Godolphin achieve. There is plenty of "trousers" in the record books I would say.

I don't believe SNA was just hype. He put up an excellent performance when winning the RPT, with massive confidence behind him, no fluke about it. I'm not going to change my view on that race just because he hasn't followed it up. It looks like the horse just hasn't trained on, it happens, in fact it's happened a hell of a lot down the years.

It doesnt matter what you see as a horses merits antepost if leading contenders are going to be pulled at the last minute after being hyped to the rafters. The bookies have already won on the race before it has been run and the stable are on their real number 1 hope as opposed to the horse who has always been their main contender laughably. You cannot form meaningful antepost books on races where plans are purposefully misleading imo however good luck to you if you think they can be.

So the only hype we've had this Winter is AOB saying, just once, he's unusual horse with lots of speed and lots of class. The only unusual thing about this is that it isn't unusual, every horse that wins a Group 1 had 'lots of speed and lots of class'.

Quotes from April and May isn't Winter

Ridiculous price now for Jan Vermeer, by the way.

figgis

Agreed -SNA was a champion 2yo with an amazing turn of foot, and top class form. That is a fact.

He might still run in and win the Derby - as this post is made, that is a fact too.

Although I would not do particularly well if it happened, I rather hope it does!

I quoted January. Dont ask for it then ignore it. I cant think of a more hyped horse than this and have followed racing for many years.

The whole point is, and I understand people who havent a clue antepost wont realise this, when you have a stable releasing hyped statements about its runners causing them to shorten as and when they decide they will, with the help of the bookie subsidised press, it leads to a very poor value book as they take all the value out of it if you have to cover and at short prices. Antepost is about improvement they are not exposed horses and the public will shorten them at the drop of a hat. How many gambles has there been on the stables runners Cape Blanco, Midas Touch, St Nicholas Abbey, Jan Vermeer. The running plans are kept to themselves until late and the first you get to know is when their money is down and the prices are gone. Wrecks antepost books though I know the pin-stickers like jair1970 arent affected.

The bookies and the likes of M Dillon must be loving this raking the Ballydoyle cash in from every gamble under the sun leaving pathetic value in all the colts Classics these days.

For the record SNA won a race full of middle distance types in the RPT and the Dewhurst was the best milers trial so remember that when this one goes to stud. He is no good for speed or for a middle distance trip. Expect to see him over 1m2f if he runs again against the slow nags he met in the RPT.

You really think SNA couldn't have beaten Beethoven, Kirk?

How much evidence do you need? I didnt need any as I knew the Dewhurst was the best mile trial.

If all this turns out to c rap and just one bad day at the office for SNA and he is confirmed for the race, the 10 to back available on here could be the bet of all time ??

I thought Beethoven was pretty ordinary myself.

When we have seen this in the past coinciding with a lot on the other stable runner, he is nearly always out, suggest the Wednesday gallop is total b0llox while the cash goes on.

Figgis did you not watch the Guineas? Check Dewhurst finishing positions vs RPT finishing positions ... the Dewhurst was the best milers trial of the 2.

kirk -- conspiracy theory is so mid-late 20th century. With exception of antepst ranters.

Conspiracy? It is happening in front of you there is no conspiracy.

Truth is nobody on here knows what is going on - everyone with liabilities just has itchy fingers on the trigger. If the horse was injured, wouldnt it have just been simpler not to declare him today ?

Yes Kirk, but Xtension finished only half a length ahead of Elusive Pimpernel, the former was only a neck behind Beethoven, whereas the latter was thrashed nearly 4 lengths by SNA.

bosra shame the money is still going on Jan Vermeer do you not get it?

Figgis I can only repeat myself and the evidence is clear. Also are you ignoring Beethoven's excellent run in the US?

No I'm not, I don't rate Vale of York too highly.

What were the finishing positions of the leading horses from the rpt and dewhurst ... I invite you to list them below then argue the toss the rpt was the leading 1m Guineas trial ... go ahead.

Get on SNA at the 10s available on here now.Will be back to 3s Wednesday afternoon!!!!11

teflentom, i agree,       surely if he was out then midas and cape would have shortened

Ever heard the phrase 'headless chickens'?

I never said anything about any of those 2yo races being viewed as trials for anything, as Phil Bull said, they're races in their own right, not trials. The RPT was just a much better winning performance than the Dewhurst.

Prima-I will have you a sporting bet that SNA is trading at less than 5s come Wednesday afternoon!!!!!

Against horses who were middle distance types not specialist miles.

Which is why the Dewhurst proved the best Guineas trial. Looks like SNA may end up a 1m 2f horse like Elusive Pimpernel.

teflontom,I agree with you I think he will be back fav'my point was to all the people who are running around cant form any opinion,its no wonder the markets are all over the shop!

Kirk,I reckon Steinbeck may also be in that group.

Steinbeck is at this moment their best miler and he hasnt even raced to full potential yet ... no hype with him.

3yo miler

They fked up their classic aspirations by trying to get a Montjeu to win a 1m Guineas on fast ground because they bought the idea he beat good milers in the RPT which he didnt.

Wrecks antepost books though I know the pin-stickers like jair1970 arent affected

You're miles down here aren't you Kirk?

There are risks attached to Ante-post betting you know... Gotta take the rough with the smooth.
I'm sure you'll be Ok as you'll have covered on all the other main contenders

Steinbeck is at this moment their best miler and he hasnt even raced to full potential yet ... no hype with him.

No none at all, the birds never sang about him did they?

Small time player jair1970 gets shirty lmao.

Shirty!

Kirk, you've been writing manically for the last hour railing against the Ballydoyle machine.

Stop a minute, take a deep breath and...relax
It's only money eh?

Sir Michael S...The S, Stands for Shrewd!!!! Why would you have a horse called Class is class in your stable if you didn`t understand horses. Who remembers what price North light was the day before the race and what the SP was???

jair1970 I have reasoned argument wheras you are a blusterer and not worth discussing anything with ... goodbye.

Nice one.

Personally I blame the bookies and media for hyping horses.  Any one raced maiden is 33/1 and less for a Classic, any Group winner goes ridiculously short and all of this backed up by the fawning press, keen to crown stars almost before they've got out of the horsebox.

Now the St Nicholas Abbey story has gone on for many months now and today, the day we see the most pronounced drift coupled with absolute silence from Ballydoyle, what are the Racinjg Post reporting?

Nothing.

They'll apply the hype alright but they're pretty reluctant to report the opposite

jair, fairplay to kirk he as well as all of us know the risk of ante post , this isnt the point its the way coolmore and rpost , crookmakers etc have manipulated this market ,

And Kirk, if you want to talk about bluster take a look at yourself: An endless stream of aggression, sniping, bad temper, arrogance, denial, aftertiming and derision.

This Kirk charachter is clearly a ****in idiot, why not just lay St Nicholas Abbey if you felt he was all hype and no value, or alternatively back something else at the artificially enlarged price. What a whinging self righteous p r i c k. What the fcuk does he know about Ballydoyle's operation to be questioning their integrity ? Pocket talking loser imo. How much has he on him ante post lads?

name me a horse that was artificall enlarged ,

LMAO this is the lowest outlay I have had antepost on a race for a while as I never saw a standout bet, Chabal was my only early interest and a recent double including SNA as the field seemed poor this year he showed promise for further in the Guineas, but decided not to have a book on it as the prices were sh1t due to the reasons I already gave ... thanks for asking.

I do have great positions in the 2 races I have books in though. Avoiding the circus of Ballydoyle is now part of antepost books for me.

I am not a layer also ... I make money backing as my strength is going against the field and spotting class animals early or not as the case may be (SNA the Guineas, while others like neill d suck up the hype)

I took Chabal pre Godolphin purchase otherwise I wouldnt have touched him with a bargepole. Dont rate the trainer at all not sure what went wrong there they just seem to go through the motions since Dubawi who was a brilliant horse and unlucky it was a road in the Guineas.

ive ,laid sna at 2.8, not the point though, the ante post market is manipulated from mafia, please take a leaf out of cecil., has 2 in oaks and has told all how it is, and even with his bullet train has said he doesnt think hes good enough, hope hes wrong i stand to win 3000 on him

Exactly elisjohn

i backed sna for the derby but i didnt put my money down until obrien declared him a definate runner about a week ago.
the minute he came on the morning line you knew the horse was
out .why else would he come on to comment about a gallop.
i think he was thinking about the stick bolger got after the new approach fiasco.and after declaring sna would run he must have felt a sense of guilt .
do i blame obrien  not a chance this is what ante post betting is all about .
i very rarely bet ante post and only do so when i am as sure as i can be that the horse will run.
if the horse has no ailment then it looks a fair chance that the horse has simply not trained on .
the only person on the forum to have predicted this was ben 10 and if  sna hasnt trained on then i hold my hands up to him. well done ben 10.

just think if these horses were curleys, how would crookmakers r post respond , c4 and mcririck would play hell, **** in front of aiden

try mice

I did say there was a chance of it based on his precocious damside family, but no way has it been proven yet, the Guineas was below expectations because of pace (against speedier horses) and going, I hope he runs for you tlp, good luck.

kirk, hahaha you genius. the fact you backed chabal says it all...

hahaha yes

has anyone heard of what johnny theyll all be playing for places murtagh has to say yet.

The likes of cape blanco, Jan Vermeer and Midas touch were all bigger prices than they would be if trained by someone else. There is the issue of whether they will run but there was the same issue with the abdullah horses up to recently. Stating the obvious but he thinking over the winter was that St nic was the Derby horse from the stable.
The Ballydoyle factor also means that what they consider the best of their bunch is bound to be a short price. Perhaps artificial was the wrong word to use, I for one never mind supposed hype as it  means there is good value elsewhere. The furore around the BD horses means the likes of Bullet Train, Azmeel and workforce are all v backable prices if one fancies them while on 3yo form I think Jan Vermeer is now too short. I reckon Midas Touch will make the three and will back accordingly.

Honestly anyone thinking coolmore are manipulating the markets to make a quick buck is living in dreamland. The whole market on betfair right now amounts to a couple of days work for these horses sires! Its peanuts to them.

St Nicholas Abbey ruled out of Derby

BY ANDREW SCUTTS 8:57AM 1 JUN 2010

ST NICHOLAS ABBEY was on Tuesday ruled out of the Investec Derby at Epsom on Saturday by Aidan O'Brien.

The Racing Post Trophy winner had been ante-post favourite for the 1m4f Classic since winning at Doncaster, but in recent days has been usurped as market leader for Epsom by stablemate Jan Vermeer, having worked not up to his usual standards last Friday.

O'Brien released a statement on Tuesday morning which read: "St Nicholas Abbey was due to work first thing this morning, however when he came out of his box we noticed he was stiff behind. He had looked slightly stiff yesterday evening.

"His work on Friday last was a little lacklustre for him and that was the first time we had seen anything different, but he was fine afterwards.

"He was immediately examined and scanned by our vets this morning. They found a slight muscle injury high up in his hind quarter. This meant he could not work today and we were advised to give him an easy few days.

"Obviously this will preclude him from running in the Investec Derby on Saturday. We always thought St Nicholas Abbey could walk on water and it is very unfortunate for all concerned to have a setback like this so close to the big race."

With Jan Vermeer sure to shorten further in the betting, most punterswill assume that Johnny Murtagh will be confirmed as riding Gallinule Stakes winner Jan Vermeer at Epsom on Saturday.