Horse Antepost
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30 May 10
22:26
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28 Feb 06
Talking BOLLOX again its pretty obvious who murtagh will be riding SNA probably win nothing all season,why dont they let punters know why ruin the biggest race in the world(flat)
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HENRY.... Think they call it No Talk All Trousers when it comes to SNA ... Surely not even the most devoted media ****s can promote this set of shady dealers again after the bull they have come out with for this modern day Pegasus ... Put up or shut up looks like they should now shut up but don't count on it.
The best thing that can happen for the game is this bunch of scheisters being confined to the equine dustbin. Hoping HRAC can get the ammo he would take this chancer and his backers apart. Really hoping Bullet Train or Workforce can pull it off and be better than beating a 33/1 shot one and a half lengths in a Group 3 last time. Surely if Pegasus couldn't do this and better they have a lot of geese dressed as swans. |
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Again
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I've got a dislike for them as well. They ran SNA in the guineas and have ruined his derby chance, as well as sending horses half cooked to classics and telling everyone lies about the derby. If i had it my way they'd be banned from racing over here for 2 years.
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They are making total fools of themselves ....throwing darts again after claiming they have Pegasus in the stable who isn't even going to run due to a convenient poor gallop the week before they have to put their balls on the line ...turns out they haven't got any.
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Very disappointing i would love to see BULLET TRAIN AND WORKFORCE IMPEDE THEIR HORSE AND WIN AND NOT LOSE IT IN THE TV STEWARDS i think they have tragically ruined a great race they can patronise us to the cows come home but we are not as thick as scared journalists they should rip them to pieces for this....Tommo will be all over them like a rash saying steady big fella whats the ground like out there ffs has anybody read anything in the press condemning their behaviour
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i think you lot must be on drugs.
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no, its not us on drugs, perhaps the dante winner is though
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Much of that stuff is awful prejudiced and libelous drivel, and probably pocket talk too.
What have they done wrong? Their communication has been open and clear. no-one has been deliberately misled. I have not been impressed by the Coolmore hype machine at times, but I really don't see what the fuss is about this year. They have 4 horses all of which would be Derby runners if they were with different stables. They have decided, as usual, that nothing will be decided until near the Derby. They have kept people informed about the gallops work. If you don't like that I don't see what you would want from them. I would be cautious about accusing people of lying. Quite aside from the legal implications, it says rather more about you than it odes about anyone else, and not a very nice something either. |
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If the insatiable media weren't ringing them up every 2 mins, they wouldn't have to say anything (like 20 yrs ago) and we'd all be none the wiser. They have a handful of quality 3-y-os and the pecking order has changed during the first few months of the season...this is what happens with young horses. SNA wont be the first horse not to train on to be as good as he was when a very good 2-y-o....you cant expect them (given the breeding concerns) to come out and say, 'Yeah, Thommo, he's gone. Put a line thru him.'
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It has nothing to do with horses not training on .. It has a lot to do with hyping up horses to the hilt to the degree they have a ridiculously prominent position in markets. It may bring more lustre for Breeders if a horse does go on to win a Classic as a strong fav rather than a 12/1shot but if it doesn't punters are left to pay the price of their big mouths and it's failure.
There is no point saying it doesn't matter as in ante post markets it does as it drastically distorts the markets to the degree we had a Montjeu at around 5/4 to win a v competitive Guineas ... Never heard or read so much rubbish on it's chances in that to ramp it's price down. Ok you could say ignore them and the brain dead press who pass it on without question however they are a major player and the majority like it or not will always believe what they say re the ability of their horses. This distorts the markets which may be ok for layers but definitely not backers. Be glad to see the back of them as a backer. |
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They are totally wrecking the colts Classic markets with their hype relating to breeding which is more than willingly taken advantage of by the bookies laying 5 gambles on the stables runners, they can't all win people, and the news presented quickly from a trade paper heavily subsidised by bookmakers. Once it all settles down then you often see the money on here before an announcement is made taking more cash from punters those in the know taking advantage of topsy turvy markets. Total joke and wrecking the Classic markets.
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''It has a lot to do with hyping up horses to the hilt to the degree they have a ridiculously prominent position in markets.''
SNA went 3/1 for Derby immediately after RP Trophy ie no hype. Hope this helps. |
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If you can't see what their game is re breeding and hype you ought to give the game up mate. 5/4 the Guineas and recently 6/4 the Derby ... Surprise surprise balls on the line time and the hype has to move on to something else to suit them.
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Oh great example by the way ... After winning the Racing Post Trophy a real class horse worthy of hype, unlike the animals from this stable, Motivator was 12/1 and went on to win, go figure with your long wait for your 'value' 3/1 loser.
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After telling you it is Pegasus all winter they have no qualms whatsoever in pulling it the week before the race after your cash is well and truly on off the back of their hype
Hilarious thing is it is as they decided it only performed as well as another of the stables runners who is in all likelihood going to run itself. In spite of all this people like you let them take your pants down time and again for your 'value' 3/1 nearly a year in advance ... The human race is in danger IMO. |
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Who creates the hype? Coolmore or the bookies and the racing press?
Don't remember Coolmore running many books recently fwiw |
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kirk st. moritz Joined: 04 Feb 07
Replies: 586 31 May 10 08:44 After telling you it is Pegasus all winter they have no qualms whatsoever in pulling it the week before the race after your cash is well and truly on off the back of their hype The only thing I can say about this is that if after the Guineas you thought that SNA was a good price at 3 for the Derby you need your head examined. Just as there are lazy journos that won't look in depth into a story before printer there are lazy punters who never see past the favourite. Surely a false favourite actually offers everyone value in the shape of laying the horse and getting on others at artificially higher prices. |
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Obligatory stupid you are not clever like me post. A quid for every one of those comebacks on here.
I take horses when they aren't fav in the vast majority of cases as do most on here ... Now get yourself back down the bookies and start reading posts properly next time you manage to log in ok. |
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Cryoftruth the word you forgot was honest do you really think they have told us everything,this is a fekkin high profile race to be treating us like children im sure all those concerned laid off before the announcement of the gamble on JV ,this has nothing to do with bookies or media hype its what came from Ballydoyle coincidence the horse didnt SPARKLE so close to the Derby are they just cushioning the blow for punters when he is withdrawn or will he show up run 6th or tail off not right they bigged up the horse i do not have any money on SNA i just think they are treating punters with contempt and ruining a great race and there is not to my knowledge one journalist worth a fekkin light in the almost masonic racing industry who has written a scathing piece about them regarding the Derby about SNA +Cape Blanco after Dante
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few weeks ago, others running for a place, this horse has 8 gears, ok we know this is crap coming out of murtagh and team, i rememer cecil running 2 one year, one was hot fav afterwinning the dante, and another comm in chief, cecil said after york, were running comm as we think the other might not stay , everyone knew where they stood, i agree they are treating punters with contempt, and midas t 9/1 one day out to over 20 , then 9 again, the same with cape, drifting , then punted on, then drifts again, and not just a few points.
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Can't trust Aidan, but then again you should all know that. My Cape Blanco fund looking good now, PULL ST NIC OUT NOW AIDAN!
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Kirk,
I can't help feeling you're being a bit intemperate here. Firstly, they didn't need to hype up SNA after his RPT win. It was racecourse evidence. Secondly, you say they are ruining ante post markets - yet surely the opposite is true when we have a 5-4 fav for Guineas who can 't win - and who you knew very well was no value at all. So how does that run the market - rather, it makes the market for people like you!! |
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Not once did Coolmore hype him up over Winter.
A load of rubbish written by many on here who believe AOB should contact Betfair users to tell them who is going to win a race. |
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requestingflyby,
I agree with your point regarding SNA,I think its true to say they almost sat back and said nothing,I think they were careful NOT to hype him up,that for me speaks volumes. |
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Who was responsible for hyping SNA up on this forum ?
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Said nothing eh?
Speaking on Channel 4's The Morning Line O'Brien said: "St Nicholas Abbey worked with Midas Touch on Friday and worked as well as him but that was the unusual thing, normally St Nicholas Abbey works head and shoulders above everything. "He did a piece of work on Tuesday and Johnny was over the moon with him but he was a little bit disappointed on Friday morning so we decided to let everybody know. "The problem with training horses is that everyone is different, there is no rule. His work was good, he worked very well. "Colm (O'Donoghue) rode Midas Touch and he thought he had improved a lot from Leopardstown so that's also there but usually St Nicholas Abbey is head and shoulders above everything, he's the most incredible worker you've ever seen. "I suppose it might have just taken Johnny back a bit that he just worked as well as Midas Touch. |
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That is not how books work. You dont look to make extremely late drastic adjustments to a book when everything has all but shortened anyway and the value is not there any more. They have ruined antepost markets and this is just the latest example.
Howellsy Joined: 17 Mar 03 Replies: 52 31 May 10 13:56 Kirk, I can't help feeling you're being a bit intemperate here. Firstly, they didn't need to hype up SNA after his RPT win. It was racecourse evidence. Secondly, you say they are ruining ante post markets - yet surely the opposite is true when we have a 5-4 fav for Guineas who can 't win - and who you knew very well was no value at all. So how does that run the market - rather, it makes the market for people like you!! |
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push 31 May 10 14:45
Who was responsible for hyping SNA up on this forum ? Yes I have because he did look so good yes I was and am a big fan, thing is though I don't at all mind being wrong,anyone who has seen that horse work i'm sure would take the same view and to add one more point about hype you and a few others talked up to death and one or two still do STEINBECK you all think he shows huge promise when he was beat yet when SNA got stuffed thats it he is no good if you want a hype horse thats it,the point though is Push that Ballydoyle never hyped him this winter.Johnny Murtagh is imo panicking being No1 jock'he is not wanting to make a bollox knowing K.Fallon may get the other horse,it would make me laugh if he gets the ride on SNA and beats Murtagh |
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Prima Donna no disrespect there have been quite a few with breeding background on here who are not too good at seeing the reality of a horses prospects on all known evidence (which isnt always available with this mob as we know). SNA looks like he is done ... will we see him again, he must be the most hyped horse since I started following the flat. Steinbeck is yet to have a clear run at it but has shown a lot of promise and has had nowhere near the hype pasted from O'Brien below on SNA.
They are bad for everyone other than themselves and bookies. |
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err kirk those comments were from saturday. provide something they said to hype him up over the winter.
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So, Prima, you a Fawwon Fawner too? J Murtgh is a brilliant jock and a great sportsman. Although many a bed would be wet if Fallon went back to Ballydoyle or won the Derby, ya da, ya da, ya da, he will never take Johnny's job.
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Yank,
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I'm intrigued as to how much Kirk may have had on him...
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'Total joke and wrecking the Classic markets.'
shouldn't that read: 'Total joke and wrecking my Classic markets.' |
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The stable have no balls basically they are all talk and no trousers.
January ... he described his current 2,000 Guineas and Derby favourite St Nicholas Abbey as "unusual" yesterday. The son of Montjeu remained unbeaten through his two-year-old campaign and created a huge impression when waltzing away with the Racing Post Trophy at Doncaster in October. "Everyone saw last year that he looked a very unusual horse," said O'Brien. "He's by Montjeu, but he has loads of speed and obviously loads of class. April pre Guineas "St Nicholas Abbey seems to be in good form, his preparation has gone well and he has thrived through the winter," the trainer explained April again .. only he isnt letting the horse do the talking. At this stage, anything is possible. "Last year is last year and this year is this year," he says, "and we always try to look forward. Everyone has an opinion and they can voice it if they want, but it's often best to let the horse do the talking." Early May .. hyping him as their number 1 ALWAYS while at the same time saying he is not hyping him... hilarious. The trainer said: "He was a highly rated two-year-old and you dream that the ability is still there. "He has always been the number one contender and nothing has changed about that. "I will let him defend himself. I am not trying to blow him up or hype him - I will let him show you. "I say watch him. I hope he gets to Epsom in good shape and we can enjoy watching him. "He has to stand up and do it, but he has to be forgiven for what happened in the Guineas." "He has always been very natural and we have always felt that all we could do is to spoil him. He doesn't take much training and has a very strong mind. "He has to step up, but I think it is in there. It was circumstance that beat him at Newmarket. "I was not worried about the trip going there as his times had been as good as all of the good milers we have had, and he was doing it easily - on the bridle. |
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I agree that there has been hype from the OB yard. I remember when Galileo was entered for the July Cup because he had so "much speed". However are they any worse than others. I remember being put away by a Sir M.Stoute 1000 Guineas winner who drifted from 3 to 9/1 because she "wasn't ready".
I can't remember how many "best horse we have ever trained/ridden/galloped" statements have been shown to be untrue over the years. I don't think the ante post markets are ruined by hype. They are made less fun by a single stable having so many top class horses. This was true when Godolphin were at their most successful, when you could back a horse for a classic only for it to go for the kentucky Derby or to France. If people thought that SNA was bad value at 9/4 or less with months to go before the Derby, as I did, they had the option on this market, to lay the horse, just as they can back him now at 7/1 if they want. The ante post market, especially since the days of Betfair, only reflect the money that people are willing to back or lay. Its no use blaming trainers for the price of horses. Prices are influenced a bit by trainers' staements but not that much. In any event, the Ballydoyle "hype" has not been far from the truth. Look at King Of Kings, backed heavily for the Guineas even before he ran and despite having unproven form winning brilliantly when may came round. Even Istabraq's first Champion hurdle was a victory for a horse with rather more reputation than substance at the time. There have been many others too. I believe that they thought SNA was the dogsboll0x, and maybe they still hope he will be. I do not believe they have set out to mislead punters for the sake of the value of SNA as a stallion. In any event what is the problem. If you see a horse run and make your own judgement as to its merits, it doesn't much matter what a trainer says. |
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jair1970 .. you wouldnt know jack about antepost mate not worth the effort with you.
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SNA wont even run is my opinion.
But I do believe Midas Touch could be the Value. |