Horse Antepost
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Looking at the Derby market o'brien is .........................
Looking at the Derby market o'brien is .........................
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Replies: 98
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"all talk and no trousers" - well the facts are that the stable have out performed every other stable in Europe for years in terms of the volume of group 1 winners and will continue toi for a while yet.
Aiden OB was an ace trainer of horses before he got the Coolmore zillions; he was recognised, rightly, as a superb innovative trainer over the jumps, and his attnetion to detail for each of his horses is excellent. Compare, pound for pound what he achieves, to what Godolphin achieve. There is plenty of "trousers" in the record books I would say. |
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I don't believe SNA was just hype. He put up an excellent performance when winning the RPT, with massive confidence behind him, no fluke about it. I'm not going to change my view on that race just because he hasn't followed it up. It looks like the horse just hasn't trained on, it happens, in fact it's happened a hell of a lot down the years.
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It doesnt matter what you see as a horses merits antepost if leading contenders are going to be pulled at the last minute after being hyped to the rafters. The bookies have already won on the race before it has been run and the stable are on their real number 1 hope as opposed to the horse who has always been their main contender laughably. You cannot form meaningful antepost books on races where plans are purposefully misleading imo however good luck to you if you think they can be.
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So the only hype we've had this Winter is AOB saying, just once, he's unusual horse with lots of speed and lots of class. The only unusual thing about this is that it isn't unusual, every horse that wins a Group 1 had 'lots of speed and lots of class'.
Quotes from April and May isn't Winter |
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Ridiculous price now for Jan Vermeer, by the way.
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figgis
Agreed -SNA was a champion 2yo with an amazing turn of foot, and top class form. That is a fact. He might still run in and win the Derby - as this post is made, that is a fact too. Although I would not do particularly well if it happened, I rather hope it does! |
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I quoted January. Dont ask for it then ignore it. I cant think of a more hyped horse than this and have followed racing for many years.
The whole point is, and I understand people who havent a clue antepost wont realise this, when you have a stable releasing hyped statements about its runners causing them to shorten as and when they decide they will, with the help of the bookie subsidised press, it leads to a very poor value book as they take all the value out of it if you have to cover and at short prices. Antepost is about improvement they are not exposed horses and the public will shorten them at the drop of a hat. How many gambles has there been on the stables runners Cape Blanco, Midas Touch, St Nicholas Abbey, Jan Vermeer. The running plans are kept to themselves until late and the first you get to know is when their money is down and the prices are gone. Wrecks antepost books though I know the pin-stickers like jair1970 arent affected. |
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The bookies and the likes of M Dillon must be loving this raking the Ballydoyle cash in from every gamble under the sun leaving pathetic value in all the colts Classics these days.
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For the record SNA won a race full of middle distance types in the RPT and the Dewhurst was the best milers trial so remember that when this one goes to stud. He is no good for speed or for a middle distance trip. Expect to see him over 1m2f if he runs again against the slow nags he met in the RPT.
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You really think SNA couldn't have beaten Beethoven, Kirk?
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How much evidence do you need? I didnt need any as I knew the Dewhurst was the best mile trial.
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If all this turns out to c rap and just one bad day at the office for SNA and he is confirmed for the race, the 10 to back available on here could be the bet of all time ??
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I thought Beethoven was pretty ordinary myself.
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When we have seen this in the past coinciding with a lot on the other stable runner, he is nearly always out, suggest the Wednesday gallop is total b0llox while the cash goes on.
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Figgis did you not watch the Guineas? Check Dewhurst finishing positions vs RPT finishing positions ... the Dewhurst was the best milers trial of the 2.
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kirk -- conspiracy theory is so mid-late 20th century. With exception of antepst ranters.
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Conspiracy? It is happening in front of you there is no conspiracy.
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Truth is nobody on here knows what is going on - everyone with liabilities just has itchy fingers on the trigger. If the horse was injured, wouldnt it have just been simpler not to declare him today ?
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Yes Kirk, but Xtension finished only half a length ahead of Elusive Pimpernel, the former was only a neck behind Beethoven, whereas the latter was thrashed nearly 4 lengths by SNA.
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bosra shame the money is still going on Jan Vermeer do you not get it?
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Figgis I can only repeat myself and the evidence is clear. Also are you ignoring Beethoven's excellent run in the US?
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No I'm not, I don't rate Vale of York too highly.
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What were the finishing positions of the leading horses from the rpt and dewhurst ... I invite you to list them below then argue the toss the rpt was the leading 1m Guineas trial ... go ahead.
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Get on SNA at the 10s available on here now.Will be back to 3s Wednesday afternoon!!!!11
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teflentom, i agree, surely if he was out then midas and cape would have shortened
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Ever heard the phrase 'headless chickens'?
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I never said anything about any of those 2yo races being viewed as trials for anything, as Phil Bull said, they're races in their own right, not trials. The RPT was just a much better winning performance than the Dewhurst.
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Prima-I will have you a sporting bet that SNA is trading at less than 5s come Wednesday afternoon!!!!!
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Against horses who were middle distance types not specialist miles.
Which is why the Dewhurst proved the best Guineas trial. Looks like SNA may end up a 1m 2f horse like Elusive Pimpernel. |
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teflontom,I agree with you I think he will be back fav'my point was to all the people who are running around cant form any opinion,its no wonder the markets are all over the shop!
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Kirk,I reckon Steinbeck may also be in that group.
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Steinbeck is at this moment their best miler and he hasnt even raced to full potential yet ... no hype with him.
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3yo miler
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They fked up their classic aspirations by trying to get a Montjeu to win a 1m Guineas on fast ground because they bought the idea he beat good milers in the RPT which he didnt.
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Wrecks antepost books though I know the pin-stickers like jair1970 arent affected
You're miles down here aren't you Kirk?  There are risks attached to Ante-post betting you know... Gotta take the rough with the smooth. I'm sure you'll be Ok as you'll have covered on all the other main contenders Steinbeck is at this moment their best miler and he hasnt even raced to full potential yet ... no hype with him. No none at all, the birds never sang about him did they? |
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Small time player jair1970 gets shirty lmao.
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Shirty!
Kirk, you've been writing manically for the last hour railing against the Ballydoyle machine. Stop a minute, take a deep breath and...relax It's only money eh? |
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Sir Michael S...The S, Stands for Shrewd!!!! Why would you have a horse called Class is class in your stable if you didn`t understand horses. Who remembers what price North light was the day before the race and what the SP was???
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jair1970 I have reasoned argument wheras you are a blusterer and not worth discussing anything with ... goodbye.
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Nice one.
Personally I blame the bookies and media for hyping horses. Any one raced maiden is 33/1 and less for a Classic, any Group winner goes ridiculously short and all of this backed up by the fawning press, keen to crown stars almost before they've got out of the horsebox. Now the St Nicholas Abbey story has gone on for many months now and today, the day we see the most pronounced drift coupled with absolute silence from Ballydoyle, what are the Racinjg Post reporting? Nothing. They'll apply the hype alright but they're pretty reluctant to report the opposite |