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16 May 10 20:25
Date Joined: 21 Sep 07
| Topic/replies: 9,104 | Blogger: Graeme83's blog
Probabilities(9 ran last year)

canford cliffs
noel wallop


fencing master
jan vermeer
elusive pimpernel
Free Judgement
Pause Switch to Standard View ===== Irish 2000 guineas =====
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Report sintonian May 17, 2010 11:17 PM BST
Cox had two placed runners today HFC with a debutant beaten a Head.
Listening to him earlier he said his horses were behind this season compared with the same time last year .. due to the winter etc. Same for most trainer though I suspect.

He does seem quite bullish,tbf.
Report Far From Trouble May 17, 2010 11:18 PM BST
Keredari sniff
Report Ballhopper May 18, 2010 10:27 AM BST
Note to The Lay Preacher . . . absolutely no chance of soft ground this weekend. Hasn't **** Turpin beaten Canford twice?
  Ballydoyle seem very sweet on Steinbeck, not so much Lillie Langtry (possibly needs a run). Fencing Master also liked, as are RVW, Cape Blanco, Age Of Aquarius and Rocket Man. Midas Touch going the right way but twice beaten by Jan Vermeer.
Awe Inspiring may go straight for the Oaks.
Report sinndar001 May 18, 2010 11:07 AM BST
Steinbeck only a possible!!!! Shock shock horror horror. Has he ever missed an engagement before?

Fencing Master, That Ballydoyle crowd better leave plenty of pacemakers in the race unlike in Newmarket.
Report A_T May 18, 2010 11:42 AM BST
It's really not on same owner/stable declaring 9 for a race.
Report sintonian May 18, 2010 11:59 AM BST
Have you lot seen all the rain forecast for Ireland today ? Looks solid from 5pm until 11pm.

Didn;t Aidan say on his website before it was pulled down that Steinbeck could run in this ''with a view to Royal ascot''.  It would take one hell of a performance for him to win anyway given the strength of the opposition.
Report downallstar May 18, 2010 12:07 PM BST
Sint - shouldn't be more than 5mm of rain, at least it should stop the dc's from watering, maybe a shower on either thur or fri, but rest of the week to be warm and dry. Gnd is Good, Gf on the round course. Should be the same by the weekend, unless they fkn water! [>o]
Report Ballhopper May 18, 2010 1:11 PM BST
Curragh learned a bitter lesson about watering last year when local hero Sea The Stars didn't run in the Irish Derby.
Heatwave expected this weekend.
We don't know what will win - or even what will run! - but please no more wishful thinking abbout the ground.
Realistically, has Canford Cliffs really set the world alight since last year's Coventry? He's very good no question, but with doubts about trip and ground will he beat the massed ranks of Ballydoyle. A big ask.
Report jamesp May 18, 2010 1:35 PM BST
If there's a proper pace (which there should be, if the Ballydoyle jockeys get their act together), I can't see Canford Cliffs lasting a stiff mile.  Fencing Master looks the one at this stage.
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 2:01 PM BST
Backed fencing Master myself, although i'm not too crazy on it. The lack of information from Ballydoyle is farcical, and has practically ruined the race for me.
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 2:04 PM BST
I should also add that the main thing that concerns me could be them wanting a Montjeu to win at a mile. That would be Jan Vermeer.

If i'm being honest, i wouldn't mind if Canford Cliffs or Xtension won. They're both trained by people who have been straight and honest. If it was won on integrity alone, all of Ballydoyles runners would be tailed off, and those two would be fighting it out.
Report jamesp May 18, 2010 2:29 PM BST
Report vinnie_roe May 18, 2010 3:49 PM BST
Graeme83 - i'm pretty sure that hannon said that canford cliff was going straight to ascot after his newmarket run,  and **** turpin was going to the curragh, so we were mislead there as well.
Report sintonian May 18, 2010 3:57 PM BST
Soldieroffortune will be along in a minute to give you a fat lip, Graeme83.
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 5:13 PM BST
Hannon doesn't clown about like this mob. If he said that, it wasn't to deceive people, far from it. They are as open as any trainers you'd find. He said almost a year ago that **** Turpin was a great bet for the guineas, and has always tried to be open about targets. Ballydoyle still have absolutely no regards for any punter whatsoever. Days before the guineas, and they are still at it with Steinbeck. To compare how the Hannon's are with punters to how Ballydoyle are is like comparing a state of the art sofa to a p.i.$$ stained couch.
Report trev w May 18, 2010 5:19 PM BST
whats m.winstanley got do with itMischief
Report vinnie_roe May 18, 2010 5:50 PM BST
hannon is better of saying nothing if he is going to mislead punters just like bolger does.
This is after **** turpin won the the greenham.

"I'm very happy with the pair of them—they’re both very good horses and have pulled well clear of the third. The winner is in the Irish and French Guineas, so I'd quite like to separate them.****-Turpin-upsets-Canford-Cliffs-Arcano-at-Newbury.aspx

This is what he said about canford cliffs after the newmarket guineas.

"We always maintained that the mile would be no problem, and, while we will keep all our options open, I would think he'll head for the St James's Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot. It would give him that bit extra time."

For runner-up **** Turpin, who confirmed superiority over his stablemate after victory in the Greenham at Newbury, a trip to the Curragh for the Irish 2,000 Guineas is the next target.****-turpin-r-hannon-royal-ascot-next-on-agenda-for-canford-cliffs/711007/
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 5:52 PM BST
He said they were keeping their options open.
Report Doyler1987 May 18, 2010 6:06 PM BST
Whats the different between keeping opinions open and being listen, a definite possibe?

Iz it cos you like won and dont like the other won Mischief
Report Doyler1987 May 18, 2010 6:06 PM BST
Report Doyler1987 May 18, 2010 6:07 PM BST

Oh FFS I'm going to lie down Laugh

Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 6:07 PM BST
No. It's because one has a website with daily updates and complete honesty, and the other is a clown who never tells anybody anything, as well as regularly setting out to deceive people. I'm glad i could be of help.
Report downallstar May 18, 2010 6:10 PM BST
You can't take your punting personally imo.
Report Doyler1987 May 18, 2010 6:24 PM BST
Aidan just tex me and sayyed "Listen Graeme83, I won more Group 1s than you, listen. Air Chief Marshal is well, listen, Dynasty is also well, Encompassing is a nice colt, listen, Fencing Master is working well we like him, listen, Fighting Brave is well, Jan Vermeer is very well, Purple Heart is in good form, listen, Steinbeck has lots of speed weve always liked him at home, and listen, Viscount Nelson is well."

Soldieroffortune just faxed me too and sayyed he wished to add "Theyre all beautifully bred individuals."
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 6:27 PM BST
I don't take it personally. I just happen to think they have a lack of respect for punters. I wouldn't want British trainers to treat Irish punters like that if they had a lot of runners in ireland.
Report Prima Donna May 18, 2010 6:40 PM BST
Graeme83     18 May 10 14:04 
I should also add that the main thing that concerns me could be them wanting a Montjeu to win at a mile,

Why on earth does that concern you?Yes I think they want a Montjeu winning at a mile,and remember they can pretty much set the race up how they like over here.I don't get this tripe that Montjeu cant get a miler.
Report Graeme83 May 18, 2010 6:46 PM BST
It concerns me because i haven't backed him.
Report downallstar May 18, 2010 9:44 PM BST
Steinbeck likely to join Irish Guineas line up

BY TONY O'HEHIR 9:01PM 18 MAY 2010

STEINBECK'S participation in the Irish 2,000 Guineas on Saturday was looking increasingly likely on Tuesday, although a final decision might not be made until the 48-hour declaration stage on Thursday.

The colt's trainer, Aidan O'Brien, said: "Steinbeck just did a routine canter Tuesday morning. We will be giving the horses due to run at the weekend their routine tests and scopes, and if everything is well we will be hoping to run Steinbeck on Saturday.

"A decision will be made either Wednesday afternoon or early on Thursday morning."

If Steinbeck gets the go-ahead to make his reappearance in Saturday's Abu Dhabi-sponsored Classic, it is expected that Jan Vermeer, winner of the Group 1 Criterium International at Saint-Cloud in November, will miss the race and wait instead for the Group 3 Gallinule Stakes at the Curragh on Sunday.

Coral, Paddy Power and Sky Bet promoted Canford Cliffs to clear favourite following O'Brien's comments on Monday that Steinbeck, the previous favourite, remained only a possible for the Curragh Classic.

Paddy Power trimmed the Richard Hannon-trained Canford Cliffs to 11-4 (from 3-1) and pushed out Steinbeck to 3-1 (from 11-4), while Fencing Master, also trained by O'Brien, is now 9-2 (from 5) for a race that looks set to be run on watered ground.

Curragh manager Paul Hensey said late on Tuesday afternoon: "The straight course is drying out from good and isn't far off good to firm.

"It's starting to spit rain and we are still expecting 4-5mm overnight. We'll see how much rain, if any, we get and review the situation about watering tomorrow.

"The weather is expected to be dry and settled from tomorrow until after the weekend. The round course is quicker than the straight course, so the likelihood is that we will water it.
Report the lay preacher May 18, 2010 10:45 PM BST
obrien needs  fast ground for steinbeck.
as long as it doesnt rain much thats what he will get.
have you all forgotten the mastercraftsman guineas already.
Report kirk st. moritz May 18, 2010 11:16 PM BST
Listen if I don't get a Montjeu to win a 1mile Classic our hosses
might as well be shootin blanks and the gaffer will be havin my guts
for garters. Our lads aren't getting any since this Sea The Stars loverboy
came on the scene, Do you understand. Steinbeck my @rse cant
have him sticking his in either he is Mr Peewee won't do I
tell you ... listen, were you listening?
Report jair1970 May 18, 2010 11:19 PM BST
Report sinndar001 May 19, 2010 12:38 AM BST
the lay preacher     18 May 10 22:45 
obrien needs  fast ground for steinbeck.
as long as it doesnt rain much thats what he will get.
have you all forgotten the mastercraftsman guineas already.

Lads I know how much rain we get in ireland has us always looking over our shoulder for those grey clouds and that next 3 months of torrential wet stuff is always around the corner but there is a big rise in temp expected for the week. Rain seemed to fall everywhere in ireland today but it was not in any significant amounts. Wouldn't be worrying about the ground at all, it will be at least good imo of course. Well I'm studying for good or better anyway.
Report sinndar001 May 19, 2010 12:41 AM BST
18 May 2010 16:17

Mostly cloudy this evening with rain continuing to spread eastwards. The rain will be persistent and heavy in parts of the west and north.


Mild, humid and misty tonight with persistent rain in many areas for a time, but drier clearer weather will develop in the northwest. Most other areas will stay rather cloudy but rain and drizzle will become well scattered and will die away altogether in many areas. Close and humid with overnight lows of 9 to 11 degrees.


Tomorrow, Wednesday will be rather cloudy and humid. There will be good dry periods especially in many midland and eastern areas, but outbreaks of light rain or drizzle will occur also, especially in parts of the southwest, west and northwest. Some bright or short sunny spells may develop in parts of the east. Mild and close with top temperatures of 16 to 19 degrees.


Wednesday night will be mild. It will be mostly cloudy in Connacht, Ulster and parts of west Munster with outbreaks of rain and drizzle. The rest of the country will be mainly dry. Thursday, Friday and Saturday will each be warm, humid days with mainly light south to southwest breezes and highest temperatures ranging from the high teens to low twenties. The nights will be mild and close. Thursday and Friday will be largely dry in Leinster and Munster with some sunny spells. Connacht and Ulster will be cloudier with some patchy rain and drizzle at times, especially in the northwest. Saturday will be mostly cloudy with patchy drizzle extending southwards across the country. However, many areas will stay dry. As this drizzle clears, it will introduce somewhat cooler and less humid air for Sunday with temperatures down a degree or two on previous days. It will be a dry day with sunny spells. Present indications suggest that the early days of next week will be mostly dry and a bit cooler.

Taken from the website. Leinster seems to be forcasted to miss any of the few showers forecast.
Report jair1970 May 19, 2010 1:14 AM BST
'Thanks Sinndar.
And here's a round up of tonight's headlines...'
Report downallstar May 19, 2010 9:01 AM BST
The rain didn't arrive 'til late last night, and i'd say there wasn't much more then 3mm.
Report la mallatiere May 19, 2010 8:43 PM BST
cheers Sinndar

Are you and prospero going at the weekend??
Report unclepuncle May 19, 2010 8:51 PM BST
Xtension e/w looks the most sensible play at this stage - no gorund, trip or trainer worries.
Report cyformalta May 20, 2010 12:25 AM BST
i like the look of shintoh myself, ran well in a hot maiden last year when front running tactics probablt didn't suit.  Progressed nicely since and got the job done with a wee bit in hand on sunday.

not sure if hes an intented runner or not but a live ew chance if lining up.
Report downallstar May 20, 2010 11:39 AM BST
1        11-23   
Canford Cliffs
b c Tagula (IRE) - Mrs Marsh (GB)
9-0 (22) (Heffer Synd, Mrs Roy&Mrs Insta) (Drawn 5)
R Hannon
R Hughes

2        381-2   
b c Danehill Dancer (IRE) - Dash To The Top (GB)
9-0 (20) (Mrs John Magnier, Michael Tabor & Derrick Smith) (Drawn 1) Rated 103
A P O'Brien

3        6152   
b c Montjeu (IRE) - Sophisticat (USA)
9-0 (7) (Michael Tabor & Mrs John Magnier) (Drawn 9) Rated 100
A P O'Brien

4        12-7   
Fencing Master
b c Oratorio (IRE) - Moonlight Dance (USA)
9-0 (22) (Derrick Smith, Mrs John Magnier & Michael Tabor) (Drawn 12) Rated 116
A P O'Brien

5        81-61   
Free Judgement
b c Vindication (USA) - South Bay Cove (CAN)
9-0 (20)  (Mrs June Judd, Mrs J S Bolger & Ennistown Stud) (Drawn 3) Rated 109
J S Bolger
K J Manning

6        13-1   
b c Oasis Dream (GB) - Kerataka (IRE)
9-0 (42) (H H Aga Khan) (Drawn 7) Rated 106
John M Oxx
F M Berry

7        41-1   
Noll Wallop
b c High Chaparral (IRE) - Annie Girl (IRE)
9-0 (56) (Roger O'Byrne) (Drawn 4) Rated 109
T Stack
W M Lordan

8        21-51   
Oasis Dancer
br c Oasis Dream (GB) - Good Enough (FR)
9-0 (22) (Mrs M E Slade) (Drawn 13)
R M Beckett
James Crowley

9        71-33   
Purple Heart
b c Sadler's Wells (USA) - Brigid (USA)
9-0 (21) (Derrick SmithMrs John Magnier, Michael Tabor & P J Magnier) (Drawn 2) Rated 94
A P O'Brien

10        132-7   
Sebastian Flyte
ch c Observatory (USA) - Aravonian (GB)
9-0 (56) (Mrs D F O'Rourke) (Drawn 10) Rated 107
Francis Ennis
W J Supple

11        14-   
b c Footstepsinthesand (GB) - Castara Beach (IRE)
9-0 (218) (Michael Tabor, Derrick Smith & Mrs John Magnier) (Drawn 6)
A P O'Brien

12        28-20   
Viscount Nelson
b c Giant's Causeway (USA) - Imagine (IRE)
9-0 (B) (22) (Mrs John Magnier & Mrs David Nagle) (Drawn 11) Rated 108
A P O'Brien

13        213-4   
br c Xaar (GB) - Great Joy (IRE)
9-0 (22) (Brighthelm Racing) (Drawn 8)
C G Cox
A Kirby
Report BERBA May 20, 2010 11:59 AM BST
Report enjbenjy May 20, 2010 12:05 PM BST
I'm going to see how Cox's runners get on tonight and decide whether to follow you in on xtension.
Report Graeme83 May 20, 2010 12:07 PM BST
I think he will be. Only a guess though. I can't see him entered for any English tracks on Sat.
Report BERBA May 20, 2010 12:09 PM BST
Cant wait to see KIEREN ride a winner for Aidan again
Report Corum May 20, 2010 4:44 PM BST
Purple Heart and Encompassing 66/1 on Ladbrokes 1000/1 on Betfair.Why ?
Report ben10 May 20, 2010 5:07 PM BST
Report Benjy May 20, 2010 5:28 PM BST
That increases their chances if anything imo. £650k worth there though. Madness.

I fancy Xtension and Canford Cliffs to hold up the form of the English guineas, but reversed. Cool

Steinbeck will have to be very good to win this first time out. Fencing Master has a hell of a lot to find on English Guineas runnings (didn't travel or finish as well as CC or Xtension) and looks massively underpriced to me and the rest will be disapointing winners.

Report king_james18 May 20, 2010 7:17 PM BST
Dynasty a good punt at 25/1 with question marks of CC will he stay?, Stienbeck will he be fit dewhurst form with FM and cox runner a bit to find. FM needs further and Xtension has a good chance but is a v short price. Dynasty surprised he won  at 2 v green every start showed improved form this yr ran v well when adian's wernt running well. Has any ammount of scope when he learns what the game is all about. May not be in the 3 sat but will win a big one in the future
Report enjbenjy May 20, 2010 9:15 PM BST
Not encouraged at all by the runs of Cox's tonight.
Report BERBA May 20, 2010 10:34 PM BST
Who'll ride fencing master on sat?
Report Horsesforcourses May 20, 2010 10:37 PM BST
The winning jock.
Report platinni May 20, 2010 10:47 PM BST
do you like FM hfc?
Report downallstar May 20, 2010 10:54 PM BST
APOB wont win the 2000 Guineas hth.
Report platinni May 20, 2010 10:56 PM BST
it doesnt ydc Mischief

you backing those sprinters again?
Report Horsesforcourses May 21, 2010 5:42 AM BST
All over him plat. Think he'll reverse form with those that finished ahead of him in the English version on account of:

1. There will be suicidal pace here
2. Stiffer course with the swinging turn will be more of a test than Newmarket
3. Should have come on bundles for the effort lto.
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 8:53 AM BST
For Plat - Mischief

downallstar     Joined: 08 Apr 06
Replies: 3243 17 May 10 15:13 
Xtension for me - is a perfect trends pick too. 6/1 looks fair.
Report bestmate May 21, 2010 11:31 AM BST
CC: won't stay
STEINBECK: Hype + seasonal debudant is a BIG -ive
FM: will need a Killing race to win & HFC anticipates that will happen. Shortlist
XTENSION: trainer & jockey as classic winners NO Thanks
KERADARI: don't have handle on this beast. No clue
NOLL WALLOP: Fair price but sire not known for milers
DYNASTY: Big baby. Beat NW fair & square last year & shouldn't be 33

DYNASTY & FM my plays
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:35 AM BST
I might add a little ew bet on Oasis DancerConfused
Report TD_Gunner May 21, 2010 11:38 AM BST
why's everyone so confident Xtension reverses form with Canford, out of interest?
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:44 AM BST
Don't tell me you fancy a fav Gunny Mischief
Report TD_Gunner May 21, 2010 11:46 AM BST
so that's a 'I don't know, im guessing' is it, ok.

haven't had a bet in it and unlikely be backing Canford, but can't see why Xtension is so popular?
Report the lay preacher May 21, 2010 11:50 AM BST
canford no chance if ground fast .
not even definite runner if fast.
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:52 AM BST
wft are you on about ydc Laugh

Its between Xtension and CC imo. But there must still be a doubt about CC getting a true run mile, 2000G was slow early on.
Xtension is a solid trends horse, and is over priced imo.
Also i had him at Newmarket, so will stick by him.

I cannot have any of the APOB runners at all! Shocked

Do like OD ew/place, but need to read the race again laters. Happy
Report TD_Gunner May 21, 2010 11:56 AM BST
who's Murtagh gunna ride?
Report the lay preacher May 21, 2010 11:56 AM BST
hannon says cc doesnt run if its fast.
not making it up.
Report the lay preacher May 21, 2010 11:56 AM BST
hannon says cc doesnt run if its fast.
not making it up.
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:57 AM BST
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:57 AM BST
cheers tlp.
Report downallstar May 21, 2010 11:58 AM BST
15     113-23    Canford Cliffs21    3    9-0    R Hannon    Richard Hughes     —    129    133
21     2381-2    Dynasty19    3    9-0    A P O´Brien    J A Heffernan     103    95    122
39     2-6152    Encompassing6      3    9-0    A P O´Brien    S M Levey     100    104    113
412    12-7    Fencing Master21    3    9-0    A P O´Brien    C O'Donoghue     116    131    131
53    481-61    Free Judgement19      3    9-0    J S Bolger    K J Manning     109    114    122
67     13-1    Keredari41      3    9-0    John M Oxx    F M Berry     106    104    124
74     41-1    Noll Wallop55      3    9-0    T Stack    W M Lordan     109    116    125
813     821-51    Oasis Dancer21      3    9-0    R M Beckett    Jim Crowley     —    115    123
92     271-33    Purple Heart20      3    9-0    A P O´Brien    J P O'Brien     94    89    108
1010     7132-7    Sebastian Flyte55    3    9-0    Francis Ennis    W J Supple     107    98    117
116     14-    Steinbeck217    3    9-0    A P O´Brien    J Murtagh     —    129    130
1211     128-20    Viscount Nelson21 b1      3    9-0    A P O´Brien    P J Smullen     108    107    125
138     1213-4    Xtension21    3    9-0    C G Cox    Adam Kirby     —    130    131
Report TD_Gunner May 21, 2010 12:00 PM BST
might just go for Keredari, from the Oxx :x stable.
Report Far From Trouble May 21, 2010 12:11 PM BST
Canford Cliffs looks to be the new Paco boy imo.

Better at a shorter trip (Paco practically unbeatable at 7 in his younger days, Canford looks top, top class at 6f)
Runs with great credit picking up some top 8f prizes along the way (Paco 2 group 1s over a mile is it now?)
Still gets slated for not staying a true run mile despite the success

Personally I think they should be campaigning CC at 6f, could take a world of beating at that trip. IMO his class got him home pretty well over 8f at Newmarket despite not winning, and he pulled hard early on lest we not forget.

Can see him running a similar race tomorrow without winning, and if connections can see sense run him in the Golden Jubilee rather than the St James Palace at Ascot. I reckon next year is when we see Canford Cliffs as a top miler
Report jair1970 May 21, 2010 12:56 PM BST
Completely disagree.

Beaten by sod all in The Guineas?  Looks a miler to me.

No idea why everyone thinks he's a sprinter and although he's shown a liking for ascot, there's a world of difference between winning the Coventry and winning a Golden Jubilee.
The world and his wife had him as a non-stayer before Newmarket yet he travelled almost as far into the race as the winner, despite pulling for the first 2/3 furlongs.  A sprinter could not do that...
Report the lay preacher May 21, 2010 12:58 PM BST
canford is a miler who needs a bit of cut in the ground and you wont see him at his best until he gets it.
Report the lay preacher May 21, 2010 1:31 PM BST
post 22.45 .
of course i mean henrythenavigator not mastercraftsman.
Report wheres the winner@ May 21, 2010 2:29 PM BST
Having watched xtensions last piece of work to my eye the horse has come on since the 2000 guineas. He worked over 7f with Balthazars gift a g2 winner and gave him 2 stone and a sound beating. I know you take gallops at face value but i could not have been more impressed by the way he quickened away from his work companion. To my eye he has tightened up in physical condition since the 2000 and i believe he is the one to beat.
Report mythical prince May 21, 2010 3:06 PM BST
steinbeck sniff[smiley:crazy][;)]Devil
Report Graeme83 May 21, 2010 7:43 PM BST
Betting has been suspended for ages. Why do this Betfair mob constantly do this when nobody else does ?
Report la mallatiere May 21, 2010 7:46 PM BST
prices up now
Report Graeme83 May 21, 2010 7:52 PM BST
haha you got me there[:)]
Report jamesp May 22, 2010 11:39 AM BST
I don't lay too many horses over the course of a season, but I have laid CANFORD CLIFFS for the Irish 2000 Guineas.  This may turn out to be a stiffer test of stamina than the English Guineas and I simply don't think CC will get home.  The good to firm ground is against him too.  4.3 is a good lay in my book.
Report Figgis May 22, 2010 11:45 AM BST
I'm laying him too Jamesp. Actually I reckon he stays the mile well on the evidence of the Guineas, I just don't think he's improved very much since his Coventry win and will be vulnerable as the season progresses, even if he's eventually put back to sprint trips.
Report the lay preacher May 22, 2010 11:46 AM BST
i agree james a definite lay but i dont agree about the trip
its the going that will do him imo.
Report Lumberg May 22, 2010 12:16 PM BST
Don't like the look of this trends for Canford Cliffs chances:

Record of horses who finished 2nd or 3rd in the English 2000 Guineas: 4250246328 (0-3-10)

You'd imagine those 10 included more than one favourite
Report push May 22, 2010 12:21 PM BST
True, but in alot of cases the ground in Ireland for their 2000G, was very different to the English 2000G, that is one reason why the form was overturned.
Report PHS May 22, 2010 3:36 PM BST
Is it fair to say, whatever wins this, the race isn't up to the standard of the English guineas ?
Report A_T May 22, 2010 3:42 PM BST
depends if anything finishes well in front of the horses that ran at Newmarket
Report comeonkautostar May 22, 2010 3:50 PM BST
Fantastic horse

Stays a mile no worries but may be better over 7f

Probably g1 standard over 6f too
Report Figgis May 22, 2010 3:50 PM BST
Couldn't have been more wrong, had to be impressed with that.
Report BJG May 22, 2010 3:51 PM BST
Could nt do that last time Sad[>o][>o]
Report unclepuncle May 22, 2010 3:54 PM BST
Fine performance, though it was against a poor field, and it will be intersting to see how they bet Canford and Makfi for the St James Palace. I expect Canford will be red hot favourite and that might mean some value on Makfi.
Report jamesp May 22, 2010 3:54 PM BST
Well, I'm happy to admit that I got it totally wrong.  I wasn't convinced that Canford Cliffs quite got the mile at Newmarket (where he appeared to have no extra in the final half furlong), but he proved today that he stays a mile really well.  In fact, he seemed to be well suited by being held up off a fast pace, and the quick ground wasn't a factor.  I never thought that Tagula would sire a classic winner, but I'm delighted for Richard Hannon and the team.  Their faith in the horse has been vindicated.
Report PHS May 22, 2010 3:54 PM BST
Hold up tactics over done last time ?

Impressive though. Contempt from the C4 producers!
Report Far From Trouble May 22, 2010 3:55 PM BST
Wrong there as well, think he is potentially top class from 6f - 8f, but that was mightily impressive. I doubt we'll see him back sprinting now
Report vinnie_roe May 22, 2010 3:55 PM BST
some performance that, will be a short price fav at ascot.
Report PHS May 22, 2010 3:59 PM BST
PHS 16 May 03
Hold up tactics over done last time ?

Also, was maybe on the wrong side of the track, away from the finishing action.
Report jamesp May 22, 2010 4:01 PM BST
One possible explanation: according to Richard Hughes the horse has only recently started to give him the same feel on the gallops as he did prior to his Coventry win last year.  He is clearly an early summer horse and simply wasn't at his peak for the Greenham and the 2000 Guineas (which is what misled some of us into thinking he was a non-stayer).
Report A_T May 22, 2010 4:09 PM BST
Looked a good performance - field was stretched out on fast ground.
Report Graeme83 May 22, 2010 7:00 PM BST
That was a very good performance and the best result for horse racing. Well done to all involved in the horse and those who backed him.

It's a victory for the anti-hype brigade.Cool
Report unclepuncle May 22, 2010 9:04 PM BST
Racing Post say Boilsports were offering 5/2 for the SJP - can't find it on their website though - I'd expect him to be much nearer evens or maybe odds on on the day.
Report Charlton2005 May 22, 2010 10:38 PM BST
I would lay evens in a match against Makfi.
Report jair1970 May 22, 2010 10:41 PM BST
there was nothing in the way he ran in the Greenham or the English Guineas that suggested he didn't stay a mile.

In the Greenham he hung but ran through the line in a fast time and in the Guineas he changed his legs and didn't handle the dip, and pulled too hard for teh first 3 furlongs.

Sometimes you've got to ignore the COLLECTIVE OPINION, it's often wrong.

So enough with the 6f talk! He ain't no sprinter!
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