Horse Antepost
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Is he likely to go for the 2000G?
The 33/1 bp - 25s gen look big.
I know he's 10s for the Derby, but I think he should be effective over 8f this year. I know there is a lot of 12f form in the bloodline, but his sire stamina index is the less than most of all his siblings.
Half sister Cheery Hinton should not have "12f" beside her name, as her best trip imo. 10f max.
Also STS's combined sire/dam sire index rating is only 16.8f (8.5f and 8.3f). New approach last year at 19f (11.0f and 8.0f) was the lowest in at least the last 11 years.
Also, of the last 11 winners, at least(haven't checked further) - either the sire or dam's sire had a stamina index of at least 11.0f.
The 33/1 bp - 25s gen look big.
I know he's 10s for the Derby, but I think he should be effective over 8f this year. I know there is a lot of 12f form in the bloodline, but his sire stamina index is the less than most of all his siblings.
Half sister Cheery Hinton should not have "12f" beside her name, as her best trip imo. 10f max.
Also STS's combined sire/dam sire index rating is only 16.8f (8.5f and 8.3f). New approach last year at 19f (11.0f and 8.0f) was the lowest in at least the last 11 years.
Also, of the last 11 winners, at least(haven't checked further) - either the sire or dam's sire had a stamina index of at least 11.0f.
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had a training set back but still on course for the derby.
Cheers mp.
That prob rules him out of the 2000G then!? Pity.
Can't have him for the Derby. But we'll see what the season brings.
That prob rules him out of the 2000G then!? Pity.
Can't have him for the Derby. But we'll see what the season brings.
i quite fancy him for the derby myself, liked this one a lot last year, i know hes a doubt on breeding but on his running style all he seems to do is stay
Would be keen enough on him for the Dante if he goes there, re assess after that.
Why would anyone have him beating Crowded House, all things being equal? The Beresford rarely throws up a top horse, and last year's looked ropey to me - a blanket covering the first few home etc.
Royal Lodge and Beresford same status, with Royal Lodge arguably the more prestigious, being at Ascot on QE2 day etc. Winner of Royal Lodge regularly turned over in Racing Post trophy, as happened last year, when he was thrashed by Crowded House.
Back him AP 25/1 for the derby, hope i get a run the the money
Oxx has only had four runners in the Beresford since 2000. Three have won whilst the other (Mourayan) finished second to Sea The Stars. The other two winners were Alamshar and Azamour - both multiple Group 1 winners. It's clearly a race he targets with his very best horses in my 'umble.
Fair comment SLB. I still favour the form book above all though. It doesn't look great form to me.
Benny The Dip , won the Royal Lodge turned over in the RPT, wins the Derby.
John Oxx feature on Atr a few mins ago -
Sea The Stars had a minor set back on 17th March, had a temperature, don't think he missed to much work.
Trainer has concern's about the horse getting 12f, so is likely to try him at 8f first, believes his best trip may be 10f though. Will make decision on 2000G about a week beforehand.
Best priced 33s at the mo.
Sea The Stars had a minor set back on 17th March, had a temperature, don't think he missed to much work.
Trainer has concern's about the horse getting 12f, so is likely to try him at 8f first, believes his best trip may be 10f though. Will make decision on 2000G about a week beforehand.
Best priced 33s at the mo.
ttt
sorry don't want this to fall of the bottom just yet. :)
sorry don't want this to fall of the bottom just yet. :)
I've backed this one for the Derby. So I suggest we all back him for the 2010 Triumph Hurdle. :(
Chazz - was on another thread here, think it was from todays post... looks like he had a minor setback this morning, dunno what exactly, decision to be made on thursday apparently.
Fingers crossed!
Fingers crossed!
I'm really looking forward to seeing if Sea The Stars can thrive as a 3yo. A big lengthy juvenile, anything he did as a 2yo was always going to be a positive.
He's bred in the purple, out of the mare, Urban Sea (one of the most successful broodmares in recent times), and sired by Cape Cross, whose progeny only improve with time. On the mares side he's a half brother to several 12f types, but his sire Cape Cross is an influence on stamina and he tends to produce milers. It seems sensible to start the season at a mile, before progressing over further, it's possible he'll stay 12f, but on breeding it suggests his optimum trip will prove 10f.
A laid back sort, that will never win by far, he showed plenty of encouragement as a 2yo and with further progression likely he appears a very fair price for the 2000 Guineas.
He's bred in the purple, out of the mare, Urban Sea (one of the most successful broodmares in recent times), and sired by Cape Cross, whose progeny only improve with time. On the mares side he's a half brother to several 12f types, but his sire Cape Cross is an influence on stamina and he tends to produce milers. It seems sensible to start the season at a mile, before progressing over further, it's possible he'll stay 12f, but on breeding it suggests his optimum trip will prove 10f.
A laid back sort, that will never win by far, he showed plenty of encouragement as a 2yo and with further progression likely he appears a very fair price for the 2000 Guineas.
Quite indicative of the forum that this horse warranted so few posts before the race.
not really jaws, arazan was thought no.1 for ages
wd lads, top shout, did it well
wd lads, top shout, did it well
Smashing horse. Always a big fan of him. What a super looking horse
When Oxx crosses the sea he often collects. No luck for me with RVW but I got a little 14s on Sea The Stars for the Derby. He has a very intelligent look.
There isn't a better big race trainer drawing breath than John Oxx imo.
Arazan was the first string for a long time. However, once it became apparent that the ground would be fast, John Oxx was unlikely to risk a horse with a high knee action and problems with his shins on fast ground. Arazan will be interesting once he gets his ground.
Had a real feeling about this horse. Only wish i had more on. Then again you always say that when they win.
Horse was cantering for 6 furlongs before putting them to the sword. Class.
I think he left Arazan behind because he knew Sea The Stars was way superior. The ground/going may have played a part but not as much as the above.
The Dosage doesnt look good for Derby, anyone any view on it? Although obviously the dam stayed.
cape cross has sired derby or oaks winner if memory serves me well, for me this horse will be 7/4 fav on the day and will destroy the field
Should have taken the hint when my AP horse Arazan was pulled out. Excellent performance and WD winners
He is more likely overall than Rip Van Winkle to stay.
Cape Cross has sired a number of stayers including Ouija Board of course.
The dam is very stoutly bred though, an Arc winner with bags of stamina in her pedigree.
Sea the Stars stayed a mile on heavy going well at 2 so he's almost a certainty to stay 10 furlongs at 3 .
I would stay he would probably get 12 furlongs and might well be better over middle distances, but there is certainly a doubt.
Perhaps a better bet is Gan Amrhas, who for a horse that seems certain to stay 12 furlongs ran an absolute cracker especially since Saint Jim said this was a Derby prep before the race and also since he was not given a trouble free passage today by any means.
Personally I think, with Crowded House and a few of Aiden's to come, this years Derby could be a cracker.
Cape Cross has sired a number of stayers including Ouija Board of course.
The dam is very stoutly bred though, an Arc winner with bags of stamina in her pedigree.
Sea the Stars stayed a mile on heavy going well at 2 so he's almost a certainty to stay 10 furlongs at 3 .
I would stay he would probably get 12 furlongs and might well be better over middle distances, but there is certainly a doubt.
Perhaps a better bet is Gan Amrhas, who for a horse that seems certain to stay 12 furlongs ran an absolute cracker especially since Saint Jim said this was a Derby prep before the race and also since he was not given a trouble free passage today by any means.
Personally I think, with Crowded House and a few of Aiden's to come, this years Derby could be a cracker.
Well done all Sea The Stars backers (unfortunately not one of them). Think Oxx will win the Derby with Mourayan, conviced he sees this as No.1 for Epsom, although admittedly if See The Stars gets 12 F will take a lot of beating especially as it has superb attitude and temperament.
dead right sage. i get the feeling that they were more concerned about the dip than the ground tbh
Think i'll be taking 10/1 on Rip Van Winkle for the Derby!
why would you take 10's on RVW when he will be that price in day... Johnny will probably be on Fame and Glory or Freemantle?
I posted on here will be winner of both guineas and deby , then arc .
Saritimer how can you say mourayan is number 1, this is the number 1 its just whether he stays yes mourayan looks a nice stayer but is not in the same league as this horse and will not be good enough. I will be amazed if this horse won, a place at best is all they can hope for hasn't got the pace or class to win.
Harry, he had the pace to run Sea The Stars to 1/2 length in the Beresford. I would in no way dispute the STS has more pace and probably class but when I say Oxx sees Mourayan as his No.1 for Epsom I am referring to comments made by Oxx regarding Mourayan as a Derby horse and stating genuine doubts about See The Stars getting the trip. Personally I just feel Mourayan is a horses that will "take off" when it gets 12 Furlongs but I have been well wrong in the past and will definitely be well wrong in the future.
On reflection mourayan was probably flattered in that race I could be wrong but ground has obviously been the making of sts time will tell but mourayan couldn't hold a position at Leopardstown in a small field and there is no reason to believe he will be able to do it in the derby. He is still a nice colt though but I am one that believes there is no reason also why he will turn the form around with the winner, but the derrinstown will tell us more.
STS reminds me of Entrepreneur when he won the Guineas back in 97. Great Guineas performance from a horse bred to stay much further. Showed such speed that everyone thought the Derby was a shoe in.
I'm inclined to judge STS visually based on his performance at Newmarket and he travelled so well up with the pace that either he is the next Nijinsky or he simply will not get the trip at Epsom. I hope the former for the good of racing but I would only bet on the latter.
May well be the IR trade of the race though. Cruising 2F out before finding nothing.
I'm inclined to judge STS visually based on his performance at Newmarket and he travelled so well up with the pace that either he is the next Nijinsky or he simply will not get the trip at Epsom. I hope the former for the good of racing but I would only bet on the latter.
May well be the IR trade of the race though. Cruising 2F out before finding nothing.
Urban Sea won the Arc; Cape Cross sired Ouija Board. The Guineas was a bonus.
Nope, after all this effort I didn't back him for the Derby! :(
Well done those who did. A superstar!!
Well done those who did. A superstar!!
In your original post you give various reasons why he wont stay 12f's... so you were wrong... why would you want to bring this post back to the top you numpty!
To admit I got it wrong, but yes i'm the numpty that backed him at 33s for the 2000G, and well before pricewise flagged him up you after timing pr1ck!!!!!!
Its not all about bragging, I'm happy(though not too happy) to admit I got it wrong, I was happy to keep this thread going when he won the 2000G, so not too proud to bring it up when I got it wrong, but thats just me being a numpty!!!!!!!
Its not all about bragging, I'm happy(though not too happy) to admit I got it wrong, I was happy to keep this thread going when he won the 2000G, so not too proud to bring it up when I got it wrong, but thats just me being a numpty!!!!!!!
fcuk it anyway. i'm saving this. :D
Still can't believe I didn't back him for the Derby after the Guineas :^0
Still can't believe I didn't back him for the Derby after the Guineas :^0
Was it really true that Arazan used to gallop all over STS?
Don't know where I heard that tbh :|
Don't know where I heard that tbh :|
Now I know why you look up to me so much Gunny!!!
You were only on here 2 weeks and I post this!!!
Now I know why you admire me!!! Cheers Gunny ;\
You were only on here 2 weeks and I post this!!!
Now I know why you admire me!!! Cheers Gunny ;\
not sure about gallop all over, but apparently worked just as well if not better.
down, been here longer, but my 'holte ender' account got banned so had to get this won instead.
down, been here longer, but my 'holte ender' account got banned so had to get this won instead.
ty Gunny :) Don't try that holte ender trick again :^0
I preferred holte ender tbh :|
Azaran needed soft gnd so that was always a big worry and part of the reason I took the chance with STS, also John Oxx told me he was a superstar. B-)
Azaran needed soft gnd so that was always a big worry and part of the reason I took the chance with STS, also John Oxx told me he was a superstar. B-)
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