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as there is now a heritage h/caps competition,up and running ,courtesy of undecided,felt it was only right to start athread on the 1st race..anyone with any trends please post.galient the current fav,ran in the queens prize,a popular stepping stone to this race as did odiham,although his current price may be due to jarvis winning the race twice in recent yrs..take it away lads.
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FWIW - Galient to repeat the Anak Pekan wide draw group horse win for me.
morning
anyone have an opinion about how som tala will take to the track?
obliged
anyone have an opinion about how som tala will take to the track?
obliged
Best performance 18f going lefty round ponte's bends. Should handle the Dee well imvho. Kick on 4 out and see what Admiral et al have left in the locker.
nice one AR, was thinking similar but he seems to have a preference for undulations but the constant bends should keep him focused
are you going to ATHENS! ?
B-)
are you going to ATHENS! ?
B-)
Morning and darn it I just can't get there! B-)
What a performance, should have been outright win with Dirk's goal. To wit, as he rippled the roof of the net I went a little wild, taking some moments to stop jumping and see the outstretched arm and flag....By then I was a good 5 metres from my perch, somewhat gutted under the tv screen in the pub, with a real task to get back to my chair unnoticed :^0
My throwaway tenner on tala at 55/1 is among the reasons why I'm optimistic about the track ;)
What a performance, should have been outright win with Dirk's goal. To wit, as he rippled the roof of the net I went a little wild, taking some moments to stop jumping and see the outstretched arm and flag....By then I was a good 5 metres from my perch, somewhat gutted under the tv screen in the pub, with a real task to get back to my chair unnoticed :^0
My throwaway tenner on tala at 55/1 is among the reasons why I'm optimistic about the track ;)
trying to move mountains and calling in all favours owed and due to be owed! best bet is going to the islands for a week and then getting a ferry across. blood money for tickets though :(
here's another hurdle for tala - channons record at the track with 4yo+ :0
here's another hurdle for tala - channons record at the track with 4yo+ :0
Was happy to hide that stat away :(
Trainer form/record in these types of races leaves me on the hopeful ledge only. I can only think that he must have known "Chester Cup" from last year when he was running so well over a trip.
Know what you mean though :0
Travel and ticket prices :_|
Trainer form/record in these types of races leaves me on the hopeful ledge only. I can only think that he must have known "Chester Cup" from last year when he was running so well over a trip.
Know what you mean though :0
Travel and ticket prices :_|
well my money is the final nail in the horses coffin.
other horses that merited my attention
fav - shouldve won lto, still has something to prove to me
admiral - had a run last year and seems to need it. coming back from injury
winged dargent (quel supris) - not sure new yard a blessing and i dont think he's suited to here and he's only ever won of soft when he has won (que 10 lt handspring victory)
odiham - never wins on turf
grafton st - 9/2 i dont get it (place lay)
afrad, dr sharp - need soft
fair along - mark and running style and draw should scupper him
whispering death - not out of it but you couldnt fancy him from 15
and so on
other horses that merited my attention
fav - shouldve won lto, still has something to prove to me
admiral - had a run last year and seems to need it. coming back from injury
winged dargent (quel supris) - not sure new yard a blessing and i dont think he's suited to here and he's only ever won of soft when he has won (que 10 lt handspring victory)
odiham - never wins on turf
grafton st - 9/2 i dont get it (place lay)
afrad, dr sharp - need soft
fair along - mark and running style and draw should scupper him
whispering death - not out of it but you couldnt fancy him from 15
and so on
Agree except re galient. The owner of Salute posted earlier on the thread and I thought it was informative (cheers ap). By the sounds of it and the way he ran he wasn't ready, and he could be a class act in this race. But he'll have a job on from that draw trying to scythe away at the leaders who have the rail turns. I don't think he'll be far away at all though.
Still, all looks set up for Tala now you're all in -- Let's just hope Mick's got him ready!
Still, all looks set up for Tala now you're all in -- Let's just hope Mick's got him ready!
some confidence inducing quotes
'He stuck his head out well when tackled and is the type who can progress from here and, on this evidence, he will have no problems in getting a bit further.'
from his sandown fouth over 14fl
Som Tala and Brigadore were both closing on the front three at the finish.
after scoring at bev
The only three-year-old in the line-up, SOM TALA battled on gamely up the hill to wear down the runner-up close home on his first attempt over the trip. He should get even further.
and his ponty win
SOM TALA, who made virtually all the running, is nothing if not game. He is also a relentless galloper and he showed both those attributes here, digging deep under a powerful ride to keep the runner-up at bay inside the last.
his last run can be forgiven due to the ground imv (he's by fantastic light so the faster the better)
he's also entered in the ascot gold cup which signifies connections intentions
'He stuck his head out well when tackled and is the type who can progress from here and, on this evidence, he will have no problems in getting a bit further.'
from his sandown fouth over 14fl
Som Tala and Brigadore were both closing on the front three at the finish.
after scoring at bev
The only three-year-old in the line-up, SOM TALA battled on gamely up the hill to wear down the runner-up close home on his first attempt over the trip. He should get even further.
and his ponty win
SOM TALA, who made virtually all the running, is nothing if not game. He is also a relentless galloper and he showed both those attributes here, digging deep under a powerful ride to keep the runner-up at bay inside the last.
his last run can be forgiven due to the ground imv (he's by fantastic light so the faster the better)
he's also entered in the ascot gold cup which signifies connections intentions
I stuck my Higgins winnings on him this morning as well at 19.0.
At this rate I'll be going in again at 16/1!
Game. He is game. Battles. Stays. Likes a trip. Well regarded. Fits the stats very well...Oh well ;)
At this rate I'll be going in again at 16/1!
Game. He is game. Battles. Stays. Likes a trip. Well regarded. Fits the stats very well...Oh well ;)
Crikey lads. At this rate you'll have me convinced that I shouldn't lay any of my Som Tala bet off for a freebie but even I can't have 4 carrying my money in one race... can I? ;)
Anyone else lke Enjoy the Moment in this... curently about 20's??
Hs looked to be crying out for this kind of trip, has some good form in decent handicaps, has form on top of the ground, only 4 so every chance he has improved a good bit this year, looked like he was waiting for another day last time and has a top jock on board... draw not ideal but also could have been alot worse.
Looks a particularly open heat to me this year and this looks value...
Hs looked to be crying out for this kind of trip, has some good form in decent handicaps, has form on top of the ground, only 4 so every chance he has improved a good bit this year, looked like he was waiting for another day last time and has a top jock on board... draw not ideal but also could have been alot worse.
Looks a particularly open heat to me this year and this looks value...
I threw some shrapnel on that one Can't Catch Me but have layed it off (for a very small profit if he wins) because of two main concerns. Potentially the ground won't suit but more importantly he likes to come from behind which as we know is very difficult here. Plenty of stamina in his pedigree so trip should suit but I can see him finding trouble in running. Definitely one for the future, if not here, imho.
Think Under The Rainbow worth a bet - ran well on seasonal debut in listed race - not sure about record of 4 yr olds in the race though.
Anyone know if the following horses were withdrawn or balloted out?
Mcledowney
Penny Pictures
Mcledowney
Penny Pictures
Too much weight for me although Hills does do well in this with horses named after rainbows... ;)
Judging by the time of yesterday's going report we should be due an update shortly...
Official Going On: Monday 7th May 2007; 4.45pm
Good to Firm
GoingStick: 9.4
Additional Info: Light watering
Judging by the time of yesterday's going report we should be due an update shortly...
Official Going On: Monday 7th May 2007; 4.45pm
Good to Firm
GoingStick: 9.4
Additional Info: Light watering
Agree has enough wgt but in a sub-standard renewal worth e/w punt for me!
som tala is my speculative punt at 16/1 e/way.
the race is full of front runners- galient, fair along,admiral and doctor sharp
, which could burn each other out and also expose the doubtful stayers.
drawn 2 and fairly weighted still, hed lack the toe of most of these - but could be coming home well as others flag .
the race is full of front runners- galient, fair along,admiral and doctor sharp
, which could burn each other out and also expose the doubtful stayers.
drawn 2 and fairly weighted still, hed lack the toe of most of these - but could be coming home well as others flag .
A very hard race to find anything that is really solid imo. Som Tala and Admiral amongst others could cut eachothers throats up front, along with galient also (i can't have him on my mind) he likes to be up with the pace (which looks like it could be a very good one) but he is drawn wide, surely a no win situation?
Probably best to back something that likes to be just off the pace with and okay draw which also stays well and the only one that we can be sure about that stays well is Afrad. He is out of form and might prefer softer ground though.
Som Tala might be able to fight everything off, he's a horse i really like, i'm surprised there is room for any lungs with the heart he has! But he will have a tough time of it up front.
Probably best to back something that likes to be just off the pace with and okay draw which also stays well and the only one that we can be sure about that stays well is Afrad. He is out of form and might prefer softer ground though.
Som Tala might be able to fight everything off, he's a horse i really like, i'm surprised there is room for any lungs with the heart he has! But he will have a tough time of it up front.
happy birthday hfc,you and ar making me feel old,bit of a charge on som tala,on here now..may have to cover...or miss out on all the back slapping!
Agree Perp. Looking through his form he seems to be just as happy to be ridden prominently as he does to actually lead. Can see him dropping in just behind Admiral and whatever else makes it to the front.
Reckon they will go a good clip which now tempers my enthusiasm for my Flare and Nordwind bets. WD should be ok though.
Reckon they will go a good clip which now tempers my enthusiasm for my Flare and Nordwind bets. WD should be ok though.
Cheers trev :) No need to feel older - just wiser i'm sure ;)
Whilst there may be a Som Tala charge gathering I still fancy your original pick of WD and whilst the new stable is an unknown quantity for him, I'm very happy with the 33s given his draw in stall 9.
Whilst there may be a Som Tala charge gathering I still fancy your original pick of WD and whilst the new stable is an unknown quantity for him, I'm very happy with the 33s given his draw in stall 9.
talking of front runners,didnt fair along go off like a bat ou of hell at ascot last yr,ishould know i was there,but pi$$ed up,and was too busy watching theatre and w,argent sitting out the back?
I think the race is not being looked at properly. If there is only one front runer and that runner can dictate a slowish pace, then slowly wind it up, everything behind gets in trouble - like last year. This year there are several candidates to force the pace and Robinson may have to charge out like mad to try and get galient up there as well. Consequently with a faster pace likely there will not be the 4 deep 3 horse walls that are impossible to pass at Chester. If, as I suspect they go a faster pace this year, then it is more likely that a hold-up performer or reasonably handy runner may be able to come through and win the race.
To that end I like Nordwind whose chance has already being amply discussed and Dzesmin whom is very interesting at 33/1.
Firstly Guests horses have been in good order recently, he has a good record with older horses at Chester, groung needs to be fast and too much rain may hinder his chance, but he is a ridiculous 16 lbs better off with Som Tala:-
16 August 2006
Good
My Result Result
3:40 Charles Elsey Memorial Handicap (Class 4) (3yo+,0-85) (2m35y) 2m
[off 3:41] 5,505.45, 1,637.95, 818.55, 408.85
Draw TRAINER Age Wgt JOCKEY SP OR TS RPR
1 Som Tala 1 M R Channon 3 8-8 Robert Winston 11/2 78 66 90
2 Key Time (IRE) 6 Sir Mark Prescott 4 10-0 Seb Sanders 8/11F 84 71 95
3 6 Gandalf 4 J R Fanshawe 4 9-8 Jamie Spencer 4/1 78 58 82
4 Riodan 2 J J Quinn 4 9-0 D Nolan(3) 9/1 73 52 76
5 4 Double Obsession 5 D Nicholls 6 9-5 v Adrian T Nicholls 16/1 75 49 74
6 10 Vicious Prince (IRE) 7 R M Whitaker 7 9-0 Dean McKeown 33/1 70 31 57
7 8 Dzesmin (POL) 3 R C Guest 4 9-10 p Joe Fanning
I know a lot of the weight diff is weight for age but it still has to be carried and there is absolutely no doubt that Fanning would not have been trying for the last 4F.
Most importantly of all though Guest must really want to win this race, having lost Admiral to Pitt before winning last year, I think he would have been targetting this race since then. (There's the other famous inmate who also moved who returned to sprinting and won as well but the name escapes me.)
Too much rain may scupper his chance but off what will seem like a feather weight, he looks well worth an interest at 33/1.
GL with your choices.
To that end I like Nordwind whose chance has already being amply discussed and Dzesmin whom is very interesting at 33/1.
Firstly Guests horses have been in good order recently, he has a good record with older horses at Chester, groung needs to be fast and too much rain may hinder his chance, but he is a ridiculous 16 lbs better off with Som Tala:-
16 August 2006
Good
My Result Result
3:40 Charles Elsey Memorial Handicap (Class 4) (3yo+,0-85) (2m35y) 2m
[off 3:41] 5,505.45, 1,637.95, 818.55, 408.85
Draw TRAINER Age Wgt JOCKEY SP OR TS RPR
1 Som Tala 1 M R Channon 3 8-8 Robert Winston 11/2 78 66 90
2 Key Time (IRE) 6 Sir Mark Prescott 4 10-0 Seb Sanders 8/11F 84 71 95
3 6 Gandalf 4 J R Fanshawe 4 9-8 Jamie Spencer 4/1 78 58 82
4 Riodan 2 J J Quinn 4 9-0 D Nolan(3) 9/1 73 52 76
5 4 Double Obsession 5 D Nicholls 6 9-5 v Adrian T Nicholls 16/1 75 49 74
6 10 Vicious Prince (IRE) 7 R M Whitaker 7 9-0 Dean McKeown 33/1 70 31 57
7 8 Dzesmin (POL) 3 R C Guest 4 9-10 p Joe Fanning
I know a lot of the weight diff is weight for age but it still has to be carried and there is absolutely no doubt that Fanning would not have been trying for the last 4F.
Most importantly of all though Guest must really want to win this race, having lost Admiral to Pitt before winning last year, I think he would have been targetting this race since then. (There's the other famous inmate who also moved who returned to sprinting and won as well but the name escapes me.)
Too much rain may scupper his chance but off what will seem like a feather weight, he looks well worth an interest at 33/1.
GL with your choices.
Latest going report...
Official Going On: Tuesday 8th May 2007; 4.30pm
Good to Firm
GoingStick: 9.4
Additional Info: Light watering
Official Going On: Tuesday 8th May 2007; 4.30pm
Good to Firm
GoingStick: 9.4
Additional Info: Light watering
Som Tala is also the only one I've backed so far ew, on the basis that it will sit just off the lead and could get the run of the race. Reasonably pleased w/ my 25 & 20-1.
The one I wanted to back throughout but sat paralysed as the price contracted is the O'Brien runner Grafton Street, who win lto was a step up on anything he had previously achieved. But I imagined this wd go for the Ebor (in which Ballydoyle have a record) rather than this race.
Galient is solid as a fav.; I had the race down as between the front two w/ Channon's horse as the danger. I am likely to trade off most of ST as 1) Channon has always seemed untrustworthy to me; his handling of Baddam last year suggests he cd be going for the Ascot Stakes, not this race, w/ the horse, and 2) it's very easy to get picked off after racing prominently round the Roodeye.
Against this Som Tala is game and wd be pointless to restrain, and is also imv slightly better than Baddam. Greenwich Meantime deserves to win but has been punished by the hcpper for his gameness. I dislike Admiral and Fair Along here, but so does the market.
Horrified that people in their early 30s are younger than me! Then this gives me more experience of finding winners ;)
The one I wanted to back throughout but sat paralysed as the price contracted is the O'Brien runner Grafton Street, who win lto was a step up on anything he had previously achieved. But I imagined this wd go for the Ebor (in which Ballydoyle have a record) rather than this race.
Galient is solid as a fav.; I had the race down as between the front two w/ Channon's horse as the danger. I am likely to trade off most of ST as 1) Channon has always seemed untrustworthy to me; his handling of Baddam last year suggests he cd be going for the Ascot Stakes, not this race, w/ the horse, and 2) it's very easy to get picked off after racing prominently round the Roodeye.
Against this Som Tala is game and wd be pointless to restrain, and is also imv slightly better than Baddam. Greenwich Meantime deserves to win but has been punished by the hcpper for his gameness. I dislike Admiral and Fair Along here, but so does the market.
Horrified that people in their early 30s are younger than me! Then this gives me more experience of finding winners ;)
GRAFTON STREET, one of the leading fancies for the Chester Cup, was a late withdrawal on Tuesday evening from Wednesday's 120,000 staying handicap.
Last month's 12f handicap winner at the Curragh was the subject of good support for the opening day feature sponsored by Totesport, but Aidan O'Brien was forced to rule him out.
Unfortunately, Grafton Street didn't scope clean this afternoon so he won't be travelling to Chester in the morning,' said O'Brien.
The defection of the Danehill four-year-old leaves the Michael Jarvis-trained Galient looking almost certain to go off favourite for the long-distance handicap.
Last month's 12f handicap winner at the Curragh was the subject of good support for the opening day feature sponsored by Totesport, but Aidan O'Brien was forced to rule him out.
Unfortunately, Grafton Street didn't scope clean this afternoon so he won't be travelling to Chester in the morning,' said O'Brien.
The defection of the Danehill four-year-old leaves the Michael Jarvis-trained Galient looking almost certain to go off favourite for the long-distance handicap.
But ya never know with modern technology trev :p !
think we've been spending to much time in the antepost markets mate!
:^0
I was tongue-in-cheek, but I freely admit I pressed the button and hoped for the best!!!
I'm not as sharp as the days of yore trev; HFC will find that out in a few years time :^0
I was tongue-in-cheek, but I freely admit I pressed the button and hoped for the best!!!
I'm not as sharp as the days of yore trev; HFC will find that out in a few years time :^0
By the way may, Stotsfold or what say thee? Lucayan with a lotta weight and C.T. a hold up horse could meet trouble round the Dee? 11/4 not too shabby and that's a short un for me :0
Great timing for me to come back on-line ;)
What happens with the withdrawal of Galient when there is a reserve? ie what will be the reduction?
What happens with the withdrawal of Galient when there is a reserve? ie what will be the reduction?
Evening chap; reckon that photo is sitting pretty! :D
NOOOO IGNORE LAST COMMENT. Confusing my horses - see i've last my marbles already... ;)
Evening all :)
Picture looks great - presently in negotiations over location...
Picture looks great - presently in negotiations over location...
I had 6 afternoon Guiness in your honour HFC, hence the Grafton trigger finger ;)
Location location location... ST into 10s in a place :0
isee one of my lincoln bets went in yesterday, montpeliere,was i on it ..nooooo!!!...went to get my meals on wheels,which was warming in the washing machine
Where the fk did that go in trev? That would make 3 from the Lincoln thread - all unbacked by moi :_| Obviously the removal of the colostomy bag hindered my abliity to check this out.
Trusty 08 May 17:00
I think the race is not being looked at properly.
Trusty is annoyed with us imo :(
I think the race is not being looked at properly.
Trusty is annoyed with us imo :(
I am never annoyed with you boys, just badly worded sentance by moi. Think the soft lead and slow pace will not happen this year, that opens up the race to higher drawn animals imvho. :-)
Nice to read that WD was bought specifically for this race trev...
John Llewellyn, assistant to Bernard, trainer of Winged d'Argent
He was fifth last year and is now 15lb lower in the ratings, and the last time he ran in a handicap he had Fair Along ten lengths behind and is still better off at the weights. The owner bought him to win the Chester Cup and he is as fit and as sound as I can get him. His form improves when there is cut in the ground and I'm told there are showers about. He is a lazy type, so he will need all the gaps but if Neil Callan can't get him in the frame, nobody can.
John Llewellyn, assistant to Bernard, trainer of Winged d'Argent
He was fifth last year and is now 15lb lower in the ratings, and the last time he ran in a handicap he had Fair Along ten lengths behind and is still better off at the weights. The owner bought him to win the Chester Cup and he is as fit and as sound as I can get him. His form improves when there is cut in the ground and I'm told there are showers about. He is a lazy type, so he will need all the gaps but if Neil Callan can't get him in the frame, nobody can.
sounds good hfc...ar..my other lincoln bet running tomm....coincidence..i think not.c'mon collateral damage!!
No bets for me tommorow. Impossible to pick winners with the draw innit? :|
Victoria Cup on Saturday is of more interest.
Victoria Cup on Saturday is of more interest.
CD - Trip and ground = wait for York imo!
Stotsfold @ 3/1 ish, it's like a new religion at them low prices :(
Stotsfold @ 3/1 ish, it's like a new religion at them low prices :(
Fancy Dabbers at Ascot GW; also in at Haydock (listed) though I see. Anything stand out iyo?
George Washington 08 May 20:49
Am having a preliminary look now HFC.
Senility on the Heritage thread (nap) :p
Am having a preliminary look now HFC.
Senility on the Heritage thread (nap) :p
If you don't want to waste real money then join in the Chester comp or Chester cup comp. At least it may give you some interest.
I must be the old git of this thread by the way, so if you would like to address me as Sir Trusty from now on, that would be appreciated. :D
I must be the old git of this thread by the way, so if you would like to address me as Sir Trusty from now on, that would be appreciated. :D
HFC, who is this AR character who appears to think he knows me? ?:|
;)
;)
2nd,only run at chester..needs the step up in trip..1m2f here will be fine ,the aussie in the saddle..i'm going in.
AR - you beat me to it on mentioning Stotsfold. Last year I really thought this horse could be anything. 3/1 is disappointing but probably fully justified.
Aye DD, aye. Similar thoughts in that 3/1 on reflection could be a handy price. May wait till after the Cup to determine the steak though!
Also like Stotsfold.
Now I look shrewd for holding off on Grafton Street ;)
Now I look shrewd for holding off on Grafton Street ;)
nordwind must have a great chance imo. bred to stay, unlucky at ascotover 2 miles last season (was kept in a pocket an winer had first run), stable in flying form, has won round tight tracks. the form of the 2005 season can be ignored as swinburn had a nightmare season then. Wasnt a gret season for stable last year neither. Great chance tomorrow. gl all
plat and GW, just wondered if comingupthehil stil uses this forum. havent seen any threads from him for ages ???
After an extended hiatus cuth returned on saturday and through his sheer presence alone an old favourite of his in beaver patrol romped home :)
His postings have become more and more sporadic however and I wouldn't be confident of seeing him again for a while...
His postings have become more and more sporadic however and I wouldn't be confident of seeing him again for a while...
For use of the phrase 'extended hiatus' you should be rewarded, George.
pricewised X-(
and he robbed some of my comments! stay away from our threads tom if your not going to quote ur sources!
X-(
and he robbed some of my comments! stay away from our threads tom if your not going to quote ur sources!
X-(
i cant even get hold of cuth on the phone i ve not seen him since cheltenham i think he s given up gambling for the sake of is marriage . but recalling last years chester cup i put him on admiral and he fancied winged dargent . we backed them both ,has for today have got a feeling winged dargent wont be out of the three and ive backed that ew good luck all and long live the cuth
Another Fair Along plunge making the market lopsided!
Now I am rooting for Galient almost as much as Som
Now I am rooting for Galient almost as much as Som
these fair along plunges are getting seriously wierd imo.
the one in the county hurdle was simple mental.
the one in the county hurdle was simple mental.
I avoided defeat by having buttons on the winner on moral grounds. Stots (at 3 ;0) wd still make it an excellent day
B@alls--that's it, I'm off to work. Not a great ride but horse isn't that classy anyway. I think the rain is getting into the ground.
We live to fight another day.
We live to fight another day.
An awful, awful effort on my part but fair play to Trusty - he may not have picked the winner but he read the race to perfection which was my mistake to begin with. :(
Trusty 08 May 17:00
I think the race is not being looked at properly. If there is only one front runer and that runner can dictate a slowish pace, then slowly wind it up, everything behind gets in trouble - like last year. This year there are several candidates to force the pace and Robinson may have to charge out like mad to try and get galient up there as well. Consequently with a faster pace likely there will not be the 4 deep 3 horse walls that are impossible to pass at Chester. If, as I suspect they go a faster pace this year, then it is more likely that a hold-up performer or reasonably handy runner may be able to come through and win the race.
Suprised he hasn't been on here saying 'I told you so!' ;)
Trusty 08 May 17:00
I think the race is not being looked at properly. If there is only one front runer and that runner can dictate a slowish pace, then slowly wind it up, everything behind gets in trouble - like last year. This year there are several candidates to force the pace and Robinson may have to charge out like mad to try and get galient up there as well. Consequently with a faster pace likely there will not be the 4 deep 3 horse walls that are impossible to pass at Chester. If, as I suspect they go a faster pace this year, then it is more likely that a hold-up performer or reasonably handy runner may be able to come through and win the race.
Suprised he hasn't been on here saying 'I told you so!' ;)
I haven't been on because I still picked the wrong one :-(
No point working out what is going to happen if you still pick the wrong horse!
No point working out what is going to happen if you still pick the wrong horse!
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