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You must have a better memory than me, i can only remember the finish. I was at the Dewhurst the year Trade Fair ran ( finished 4th i think ) to me he looked a well grown solid 2yo, but when i watched the recording on C4 they said he looked like one of the smallest horses in the paddock. Just goes to show it is better to see them in the flesh than to take someone elses word for it.
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As i remember ROG did not look anything special in the paddock, just a medium sized 2yo, obviously he progressed well from 2-3 years.
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Push,Trade Fair was always very overated imo and he was a big horse and he was 3rd in the Dewhurst.
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Yes he did not progress as much as i hoped. Still got the Guineas winner for the following year in Refuse to Bend.
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Push,I think ROG was one of the best racehorse's we have seen in years another VERY good horse was Falbrav,his best race for me was his win in the QE2 he stamped his class in that for me.
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There is No Hope and Bob Hope of them going for the Triple Crown with SNA .. you blew your credibility there.
Kirk,reading some of the things you say .........Im wondering if you have any yourself. |
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The Rock is one of my favourite racehorses
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Falbrav, one of those rare horses that is topclass over a variety of distances. Sadly i never actually backed him when he won. :o
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Push,He has been written off as a stallion its a shame he was so good I would love a mare by him,one day I may get one he was a super looking horse,I never used him but sometimes I wish I had I did look at him in NMKT,he may do alright as a BM sire he was top class.
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According to RP website he has done OK with his early crops in Australia and Japan.
There is another son of Fairy King doing very well in Aus, cannot remember his name, think he is one on Coolmores. |
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Push,Yes his name is Encosta De Lago,he has done well I have a idea he stood in the states for a yaer but im not sure?
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We had a thread on him push if you remember ;)
Covered a few in Ireland hasn't he, think he gets a few two year olds this year. O'Brien trained one last year but can't remember the name. |
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Utrillo, first proper crop this year though.
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I am sure you are correct Ben, but i print so much rubbish on here i cannot remember.
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Ireland was it I thought he had been some other place.
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Kirk , is not going to like this ,Steinbeck has not had a mention for a while. :)
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I know ive been waiting for him to say something!
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if its without rose tinted ante post specs on it will be a long wait.
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I think he must have a very BIG pair.
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Im not sure they are big but they are certainly very heavily tinted
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Does anyone remember Big Lee from a few years ago? He insisted that Henrythenavigator would win the 2000Guineas, to the derision of many on here, only to be proved correct.
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If any on here still don't fancy Steinbeck, then just lay 16/1 and see how many takers you get. Racing is about opinions and while I do not fancy the beast, good luck to kirk for standing by his guns.
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TIROL ... it is all about going against the crowd antepost to get value imo. However think SNA is v good just dont know if he will be able to cruise off a true mile pace and come through .. he may do. Have Big Bucks, Kauto and Canford in a treble which is pretty much depending on Canford staying and would rather have him and Steinbeck against the field with SNA covered than going for it with SNA at the trip. All about opinions nobody will get it right every time.
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Kirk,you dont seem to think SNA will cruise off a true run mile yet he has already done this, yet you think CC will stay the trip even if its a fast pace that is a even bigger IF .Your right it is all about peoples opinions on what we have seen, so before I say anymore let me first wish you luck Kirk we are all in this together!But if you do think about how Coolmore work who offers them the most return for them,that is what they will be thinking of when they make there plans (ie)If S'beck wins the GNS what price could they stand Footsteps' for he would be the same price if he wins the irish and goes on to win a couple of other GR1s or if SNA wins the GNS (English)and then goes on to take the TC what then could they stand him for and also his own sire Montjeu ,look at the book of mares STS has got this year im sure both the main stallions at Coolmore have lost a great deal of top mares to him,they will want those mares back.
Steinbeck even if he won all the mile races will never get those sort of mares but SNA would if that all happens MasterCM' stands for 20k STS is 85k you work it out Kirk,and remember Coolmore/Ballydoyle are in the business of stallions nothing else! |
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I think will will have to wait until the middle of April to find out what O Brien intends to run in the Guineas, unless Steinbeck gets injured before then.
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Kirk, Don't despair....No one on this exchange prepared to offer a decent price over the possibility of a steinbeck victory on 1st may, so you may still be spot on.gl
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kirk st. moritz 14 Feb 00:20
.. it is all about going against the crowd antepost to get value imo. Kirk - going for Steinbeck , even at 16/1, is surely more a case of following the herd (the Coolmore hype herd) than going against the crowd. With the form he has to his name, if he was trained by just about anyone else and hadn't been hyped to the hills before Royal Ascot he would be at least 25/1. Still dosen't mean he can't win so good luck to you - but value he definitely is not. |
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Cant have SNA or Steinbeck or Canford Cliffs at the prices.
For what its worth im on Siyouni and Beethoven. Just cant let Group 1 winners sit around at 40+/1 and 300+/1. All this Steinbeck / SNA guessing and second-guessing is all very good and interesting, but I prefer form in the book. |
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I think you have to use the hype to a point to guage the pecking order, particularly so in the classics since there is little form to go on. It's obvious Steinbeck is near the top of the Ballydoyle pecking order and how often do their hype horses show nothing, maybe he won't win the Guineas but he's very likely to go on to be one of their star 3 year olds, if he stays fit, They don't get it seriously wrong many times. For me I know he's highly thought of and that combined with his excellent Dewhurst run is enough to make me think he can be one of the premier milers in Europe this season.
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Furthermore, Steinbeck is a very large horse which lends us to think he will improve with age
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If Steinbeck does improve with age imo he will be about as good as Aqlaam being a big horse who cant run very often I could see him out at the end of May or even at Royal Ascot I think the guineas will come to soon,hes one for later in the season,but good luck to all of you,hope im proved wrong........................but I dont think I will be.
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:0
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If you want a horse with good GR1 form being a GR1 winner beating the BC juvenille winner, and winning over a mile then what about Hearts of Fire?looks a nice racey sort and is very tough if he was at Ballydoyle he would be much shorter in the markets,he looks better value than Steinbeck to me.
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Will he go on fast ground ? He flopped at Newmarket ( Craven meeting ) .
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HOFire , made his racecourse debut on March 28th, that would be about the earliest debut i can think of for a Guineas winner.
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Last Bocklesby winner to take a Classic, anyone know? Was in the paper today I think.
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Push,Firebreak went on all going's thats a sign of a good horse,the fact HOF was out in March shows he is very tough and kept improving all year rather like his sire who improved right up until he was five,with the Frenchman on board I think he is very much the guineas dark horse.
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I'll keep that question open to the floor because it's not actually that easy to find out..
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Peslier has done me a few favours,**ney Reb 2000G, and High Rise in the Derby. Is it you PD taking the fancy prices on HOF noticed the bigger prices went a while ago. Still if he is that good should God not be aiming Vale Of York at the Guineas ?
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Actually it's on the Racing Post site! It was Donovan in 1889, was unlucky in the Guineas (apparently) and then wont he Derby and Leger.
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