So You Think he was a failure?

Yeah 12F is a doubt.

If Alf was in charge a stiff mile where he can get cover in any class would be right up his alley.

On that basis how would you rate the performance of the thoroughly exposed 113 rated 5 year old Sri Putra

Being thouroughly exposed means he will rate 113 each and every time he goes around? Gee if only horses were that consistant. Punting would be much easier.

Ah - you ignore that as well.

Why didn't I see that coming

Alf - I've seen it quoted many times

Of course we would need a tape recording to prove that he said it and even then they can be doctored so it really is unprovable.

Maybe as you say he is only a nobody in Australia and indeed the prize money renders it not worthwhile to bring your big guns over, in which case that is a pity.  Might shake up the hegemony here to see some fresh blood here.

Joke of the day,

How do you turn a winning race horse into a loser, sell it to the UK for $30 million.

I would think a little harder as to who may be the real mugs.

UK - you are having a laugh

Have you looked at the nationality of the owners?

You may have seen it quoted on forums. But Guarantee you have never seen a direct quote from Bart in the press.

If he's said it, it wouldnt be hard to find, Everything he says is out there.

Fact is, the press hounded & hounded him on the question. & as he does he avoided it with dry humour on every occasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_You_Think

Bottom line is the Aussie horse was over-hyped by his ex trainer and present trainer who blinded themselves with belief they and he were flawless...

Aussie Sprinters kick butt... and if Black Caviar turns up next year (Having torn a few strip(e)s off the Singaporean pretender on the way, we'll se HOW good she and they are...

BUT their Mid distance and stayers are NOT in the league of the Europeans - SYT had beaten no proven world class Grp 1 horses down under and it was a v soft grp one he won in Ireland... Even if he'd won yesterday, he'd still be pounds below CC/Frankel/Goldie over a mile, CC/Carlton Hs (Whom I thyink will prove a top drawer 10f horse) and a pile of others at 10 furlongs... and at 12 he'll meet Workforce, Pour Moi and a pile of others...

At FIVE (Let us not forget) he's entitled to look impressive... and may still prove a VERY good horse, but he's not pegasus (FRankel got away with that silly manoeuvre but he did not) and he's not bomb proof

I just hope we don't get Coolemore hiding him away and cherry picking soft races - if you still believe in him then let's see him have another go...

Either way, Cummings is graceless SCUM and should keep his mouth shut

http://www.theracingforum.co.uk/horse-racing-forum/horse-racing/you-think-ro...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/horseracing/so-you-think-the-master-bart-ca...

I can find many more easy enough but the point remains while he was winning in Aus, Europe was there for the taking, now it turns out he cant beat a medium level performer let alone a top ranking star there are a plethora of whining exuses followed by a denial that he was even rated highly back home.

BTW I am surprised the Aussies alllowed a horse to be called Black Caviar...........

Reminds me of Mary Hinge another one that slipped through

I've had too much scrumpy this week STerling to munderstand what you're on about - care to spell it out?

i DO remember the owners of "Norfolk in Chance" getting the name refused and managing to get Finmental "EFF-inmental" past the censor...

As to Aussie's 132 rating... I assume he's talking about JUMPS ratings... clueless... absolutely clueless... wouldn't know a 132 rated horse if, symultaneously, it kicked him and Cummings Down Under!

Instead of whinging and moaning about Bart's hostile words, you should stop trying to discover quotes and have a look at this list instead..

http://www.bartcummings.com.au/g1_list.asp

Ah - you ignore that as well

I'm not ignoring that run, just acknowledging that horses arn't machines.

BTW I find it a bit rich you accuse me of that when everyone including yourself conveniently ignore the runs of Planteur and Take Over.

I've still to hear anybody explain why both these horses perfomed well below par. They had perfect runs, both trailing So You Think and were in prime position to pounce. Both failed miserably.

OK lets take a different tack.

Lets say Rewilding is a late scratching and the Prince of Wales went ahead without him.

So You Think wins pulling up by five lengths, totally destroying Planteur and Take Over.

What would you have said then?

The Lulz continue.

The Betfair "trollform" ratings system is in full effect.

"
THE maestro Bart Cummings is convinced his former champion So You Think can soon make amends for his defeat in the Prince Of Wales's Stakes.

So You Think, unbeaten in his first two European starts, started a long odds-on favourite to win the feature English Group 1 but controversial race tactics and a questionable Ryan Moore ride brought about his undoing when beaten on the line by the late-surging Rewilding.

Cummings, who trained So You Think to win the past two Cox Plates, said he believed the champion looked "slightly underdone" for the race.

"I think he looked very well, and will improve with the run," Cummings said on Sky Sports Radio. "He over-raced and was rather fresh. He pulled a little bit and he (jockey Moore) may have gone far too early.

"The horse will still improve greatly from that and the experience will educate (trainer Aidan) O'Brien about what the horse probably needs."

There is also criticism of the role stablemate and pacemaker Jan Vermeer had in bringing about So You Think's defeat.

"I think pacemakers are completely unnecessary ... I think we're on the right track in Australia barring that idea," Cummings said.


*Bart Cummings is a legend and will be defended to the death.

*It would be a great feat if you muppets could win one Melbourne Cup let alone 12.....WAKE UP.

Sterling - Is that the best you have.

As Alf said still no quote that Bart said he was the best horse he's had.

Because the simple fact is he hasn't. [;)]

As for Bart Moaner, Very tough beating on an 83 year old who has been & is simply a genius.

I'd have said what I said about Frankel - bloody good horse that won despite the tactics...

I don't under-rate SYT - after all I had him in three Five folds inc Frankel, Timepiece, Fame and Glory and permed the 1st leg... that loss in total cost me over two grand... I just think Cummings should learn some manners, realise his ex star is going to be meeting far better horses than it ever has before and AOB needs to put the Coolmore marketing tongue back in his head and just let his undoubted talent and the horses' performances do the talking

I am a huge fan of AOB - went to Coolemore with the mater after IStabraq retired and met him at the racecourse the day Petrushka won and still think there's genius there... but the mouth... listen, listen, listen... just watch henry cecil or Michael Stoute, Aiden... and learn... you have 25 yrs more of this game, don't give yourself grey hairs and a heart attack by putting undue stress on yourself and the horses with the hype...

ALf Awoody... Cummings' age is irrelevant - he has been quoted in the press as rubbishing the Derby and European racing... yet at the first serious test, his ex-horse is beaten by a younger animal beaten in the previous year's Derby...

It's about his lack of GRACE and bad manners, not his lack of judgement - we all make mistakes and by all accounts he doesn't make many...

But learning to stfu at times is a lesson to be learned and about time he did... and it is simply lacking in breeding and class to bad mouth, by default, the next trainer in the shape of AOB...

THAT is the real issue

Ditto Force Majeure...

Manners maketh man, meeting Triumph and disaster with honour and grace maketh a man!

If anyone should STFU it's Aidan O'Brien, at least Bart tells it as it is, unlike O'Brien with his relentless verbal diarrhea of complete BS.

"simply lacking in breeding and class".....WAKE UP you muppet! this is the internet, not a UK public school for ****s.

The "trollform" ratings have just been released for trainers.

..............LOSE

..............WIN


Current horse ratings are still being compiled.

OK lets take a different tack.

Lets say Rewilding is a late scratching and the Prince of Wales went ahead without him.

So You Think wins pulling up by five lengths, totally destroying Planteur and Take Over.

What would you have said then?

Same as I have tried to tell you half a dozen times already. Beating a 113 rated horse by 6 lengths puts SYT in the high 120's. Take Sri Putra out of the race and you have a point. The trouble is he ran.

Jeez its hard getting through sometimes.

I wonder who it is at BF deleting some of the posts here... [;)]

Force... you're onto a loser here:

Your horse was beaten,

Your Trainer's looking an old mouthy classless git who should stfu...

And you're starting to look like a grade A plonnkker

Class and Breeding and honour is nothing to do about Public School: it is to do with manners

There's an old joke that Says: "What's the difference between a pot of Yoghurt and Australia? Leave the yoghurt out in the sun for 200 years and it will grow a culture of its own!"

These days it's alterred to - "We sent our criminals and orphans to Australia 200 years ago so they might grow up in a different environment and have a fair chance - not worked: They're still crooks and bar-stewards!"

NOT something to which I tend to adhere... HOWEVER, your behaviour isn't helping change the opinion of those that do!

Incidentally, AOB has trained more horses rated 120+ than Cummings has had hot dinners this year, so the latter should REALLY learn to stfu... his star has gone, it's elsewhere, it's meeting better horses, it may get beaten now and then... it's gone, you don't train it now... find the next one. AND find some manmners while your there.

Somerset, dozens of those plying their trade in Europe have jumped at the chance for a work placement with the great man over the years.

If Bart Cummings has something to say then us lesser mortals should listen however curmudgeonly he might say it.

You are rambling on like a muppet now, im too busy trolling @LulzSec on twitter to be bothered anymore with this rather weak debate which is now about how many convicts were sent out on a boat over 200 years ago.

@LulzSec are taking over the world as we speak, there are more important things going on right now my furry friend.

"TrollForm" ratings will be back next race bigger and better.

fitness angle makes me laugh - you'd think he was the only horse in the race even after he got beat.

Rewilding had n't been on the track for 81 days and had only had one run in 277 days, why would n't he strip fitter next time? (admittedly connections think he's 'best fresh'). Godolphin usually take until September to get going though.

For what it's worth, the form is clearly solid with the first two pulling well clear but they both had hard races so,depending on where they're seen next and who the opposition is, might be worth opposing.

SYT will still be overbet because people will buy into the hype - all the better for those of us who are n't too idle to thoroughly assess the merits,form and chance of every horse in the race.

Yes connections have found the key to Rewilding, keep him fresh, as in only start him once every three months LOL probably skip everything and go straight into the Arc.

Front on slow motion video was interesting, comparing the width So You Think and Rewilding.

So You Think definately looked like a big muscular sprinter next to Rewilding's slim profile.

Lightly framed thing is Rewilding, it would be interesting to compare their respective weight. It might explain how he ran down So You Think[:p], there was obviously a stiff tailwind that day.

So You Think will definately improve on the run but I don't see him getting revenge anytime soon, in fact he may be retired to stud before Rewilding's next start LOL

Same as I have tried to tell you half a dozen times already. Beating a 113 rated horse by 6 lengths puts SYT in the high 120's. Take Sri Putra out of the race and you have a point. The trouble is he ran.

And your trouble is your evaluating this race based only on those horses that fit in with what you want to believe. BTW despite me asking a few times, still have not heard a valid excuse for Planteur and Take Over.

Back to Sri Putra, I'm not sure how long you've been watching horse racing (and someone else mentioned hot dinners) but I've had less of those than watched races where the seemingly outclassed 100-1 shot runs on stoutly and gets much closer to the winner than his "rating" would suggest.

It's called a one off performance, you know, bit like England and Football

why not? That's what they do in France. You won't see any of theirs after the Grand Prix de Paris on Bastille Day until Arc trials day.

Of course, the SYT Arc excuse will be: ' He's a Southern Hemisphere horse who has been on the go for a full calendar year.'

Don't know what you're getting so worked up about anyway, not even an Aussie horse on breeding - like me claiming Sea The Stars is British!!

Planteur needs cut. Twice Over is 6yo - can't remeber the exact stats but very few 6yo winners of Prince of Wales.

...and in both cases their best form is over 10f

on the comments from bart cummings about our racing not worth 2 bob.....when atr had him on the phone the other day it was pretty obvious he wasn't talking about the quality of our horses but literally about the prize money on offer, because he started talking about the fact that once all the deductions were taken out and everyone paid...there was nothing left....so he wasn't sl@gging the quality of our horses imo.

does anyone have a good guess where SYT will run next, is the eclipse a genuine possibility?

Planteur needs cut. Twice Over is 6yo - can't remeber the exact stats but very few 6yo winners of Prince of Wales

Planteur obviously a little bit prissy, from what I heard there was enough rain in England in days leading up to Prince of Wales to make the surface Good to Soft in places. Certainly the surface had a nice cushion and if a horse can't perform on that, to borrow from Bart, he's not worth two bob in my book.

I don't see that as a valid excuse, he was beaten 6 - 7 lengths because he simply wasn't good enough.

As for Take Over, I would suggest that one year should not make 20 lengths difference in his performance. And 6 years old is hardly over the hill.

And BTW counting how many previous 6 Year olds have won the Prince of Wales is useless without knowing how many 6 year olds have even entered and tried to win it.

does anyone have a good guess where SYT will run next, is the eclipse a genuine possibility?

Your Guess is as good as mine. But I've heard he's been nominated in most of the good races, even the Sussex Stakes over a mile.

This link has some info, including an explanation of Bart's comments.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/aidan-obrien-thinking-about-big-english-mile-for-so-you-think/story-fn67r1j3-1226065140104

AIDAN O'Brien has added to the So You Think program puzzle by entering the dual Cox Plate winner for the Sussex Stakes in England.

What is intriguing about the nomination is that unlike all the other races in which So You Think has been entered, the Group 1 Sussex Stakes, at Goodwood on July 27, is over 1600m.

Since So You Think joined his Ballydoyle stable in Ireland, O'Brien has repeatedly dropped hints that the four-year-old has the versatility to drop back to 1600m.

"He has the class and speed to win a Group 1 over a mile," O'Brien said this month after So You Think won his first two European starts at The Curragh, Ireland.

Neither O'Brien nor anyone else at Coolmore, which owns the six-time Group 1 winner, will declare what So You Think's itinerary is past the Group 1 Prince Of Wales's Stakes (2000m) at Royal Ascot on June 15.

Many believe O'Brien may be tempted to freshen So You Think after Ascot, run him in the Sussex Stakes, then the 2000m Irish Champion Stakes at Leopardstown in early September on his way to the 2400m Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe at Longchamp, Paris, on October 2.

Under one possible scenario, So You Think will make his final racetrack appearance in the 2400m Breeders' Cup Turf at Churchill Downs, Kentucky, on November 5.

So You Think and his former trainer Bart Cummings are making headlines throughout Europe.

Cummings' dismissive line about British racing - "it's not worth two bob" and it would collapse if "the sheiks pulled their money out" after So You Think's Group 1 Tattersalls Gold Cup win last week - caused a stir.

Outspoken trainer Mark Johnston, recently appointed a director at the British Horseracing Authority, came out firmly behind Cummings.

"I couldn't agree more with Bart Cummings. Their racing is very well funded and is progressive. Our racing is seriously under-funded and in decline," Johnston told the Racing Post.

"We have had our head in the sand for years, talking about having the best racing in the world. I don't think we have now and certainly won't have in the future.

"Bart is right when saying if Sheik Mohammed took his horses from England, our racing would be in deep trouble."

sLuca Cumani was more circumspect, but basically agreed with the tenet of Cummings' view.

Cumani noted that English racing had to be very grateful for the Maktoums and Khalid Adbdullah and handful of big concerns.

"Without these people racing would go downhill rapidly, but we have very good broodmares and stallions here and in Ireland, so we have the potential to continue breeding very good horses.

"It's a question of whether they will remain here to race when prize-money is at its current level."

Only John Dunlop seemed at odds with Cummings. His only comment was "I would simply say that Bart is an Australian".

...and in both cases their best form is over 10f

For horses that need more than 10f, given a 10f with good speed on throughout, I would have thought they would be running on strongly at the finish like Rewilding, not giving it up halfway down the straight.

Pretty obvious cummings wasn't actually saying the horses in europe aren't any good, clealy they are. He was just saying the way racing is set up is poor.

And the reason I ask about SYT's next race is I heard a few people saying he might not race until the irish champion stakes. Then I googled it and saw it isn't until september

Would be ridiculous if he didn't run for 3 months .Would expose the 'he isn't fit enough' excuse for nonsense. Be suprising too.

AOB will usually run his best horses once a month. Can't think of many lightly raced ones. Rock of G, Giants Causeway, Henry The Navigator,Duke of M all ran about 6/7 times in their best seasons, always Group 1s . Galileo,Hawk Wing,Dylan Thomas 4 or 5 during the Summer/Autumn . Fame &Glory + Rip Van Winkle kept on going too, even against a horse they couldn't touch.

The Eclipse is the logical target . As St Nicholas Abbey and Await The Dawn are running over 12f you'd expect one or both of those to go to The King George.Though of course, with the races 3 weeks apart, any of them could run in both.

But SYT would seem the most plausible contender for Sandown.

Don't know what you're getting so worked up about anyway, not even an Aussie horse on breeding - like me claiming Sea The Stars is British!!

Which is partly why I'm puzzled at the vitriol directed his way. He is the best performed son of High Chaperal as far as I know. Irish born and an English Derby winner.

And it isn't so much about how good he is, what really got me riled is the bagging of what is obviously a very couragous horse, who always lays it all on the line and never shirks his task.

Unlike many of his opponents in the Prince of Wales, he's not some limited animal that needs everything to go his way to perform.

Depends how you claim a horse really. Rocket man was bred in Australia by aus/nz horses, but no one in Australia will claim he's Australian.

i understand the rivalry between aussies and poms, So you Think shouldnt be part of this, we should all appreciate what this horse has and "will" contribute to horse racing.

Aiden O'Brien is on record during a docuementry made a week before his Royal Ascot run that he has no idea if the horse So You Think is under done, reason being he has such a high cruising speed and his stride is nearly twice that of any other horse and his wins have been way too easy, it stated he will know and learn more about So You Think after Royal Ascot if he was fit enough.
now the race in question, Many things brought down So You Think. from the start, the stuff up with the young jockey on the lead horse who serverly checked So You Think, and race way out in front causing So You Think to over race a furlong. then the jockey going for home 3 1/2 furlongs out?? seriously that left So You Think a sitting duck for a swooper, So i ask who was really the lead horse, So You Think??? it turned out that way. To be beaten a 1/2 neck in near track record time on a good to soft going speaks volumes for So You Thinks ability. lastly,So You Think is an on pace runner who runs fast sectionals, wtf they used a lead horse for, yep agree with frankie, obrien played into their hands. dont give up on So You Think yet as he is even capable of breaking track records over a mile and mile 1/2

bart cummings wasnt rubbishing English horse's  ability just the prize money offered. typical media headlines in the UK and Australia trying to beat up a story.

Where has this g/s going description came from?? Wednesdays times give a total lie to this for a start as virtually every race was around or under standard. The rain came on thursday morning.

Would be interested to see SYT in the Eclipse against some decent horses

John Dunlop quote says it all

Would be interested to see SYT trained by someone who new what the fuc$ they were doing, preferably without a half wit son trying to take the horse out during the race because he cant ride his horse for $hit.

Bart Cummings quote says it all.

Trouble is that race often cuts up to about six or seven runners

Don't know if a summer break would benefit the horse so would like to see it aimed at all the top 10f races

Bound to pick up a G1 some time, or a G2 if desperate.

Have agree re AOB, poor training and tactical performance from the Irishman.  Would like to see the horse demonstrate he is a world beater and salvage some dignity.

i understand the rivalry between aussies and poms, So you Think shouldnt be part of this, we should all appreciate what this horse has and "will" contribute to horse racing.

Yep, completely agree - don't you think there should be the same level of appreciation for the horse who actually won the race, showing at least as much courage and bravery?

More thread and comment about SYT than Rewilding - says it all about hype.

...and in both cases their best form is over 10f

For horses that need more than 10f, given a 10f with good speed on throughout, I would have thought they would be running on strongly at the finish like Rewilding, not giving it up halfway down the straight.

I suspect you're on a wind up here? If not one of the weakest arguments I've ever read, even on here.

You obviously must then believe that AOB included JV as pacemaker for the benefit of Planteur and TO in a bid to get his own horse beaten?

Well I was a So You Think knocker but to be fair he ran yet another good race. You have to take things into perspective The Cox Plate is not the Arc De Triomphe nor is carrying top weight in the Melbourne Cup and losing.

As I pointed out a few weeks ago it's the equivalent of carrying top weight in the Tote Gold Trophy and expecting to go on and win the Champion Hurdle. It is simply a totally different world and close to trying to leap the Grand Canyon without a rocket.

That considered I think he's done really well to get as far as he has, he just isn't good enough to be taking on the best in Europe but is still one helluva good horse.

Failure is hardly a word I would use.

Well said Rondetto

It is just the hype machine that winds people up..

I would love to see this plucky Aussie equine do well

ReaseHeath quote *
Yep, completely agree - don't you think there should be the same level of appreciation for the horse who actually won the race, showing at least as much courage and bravery?

More thread and comment about SYT than Rewilding - says it all about hype.

I think the topic was So You Think he was a failure??

can i ask you, what did Rewilding contribute to the race besides sitting at the back of the field asleep and swooping late. have a 2 horse race between the 2 and So you Think wins each time.
only thing that got him over the line first was frankies thrashing with the whip.

a quote from Cumani one of UK's better trainers last october in melbourne, australia in regards to So You Think....."theres no horse in the world that can run sectionals like this horse"

All i say, rid the lead horse, let the horse run its own race, see who can explode 3-400 metres from home and go with him?

Rondetto...can i explain to you, the Cox Plate is run over 2000 metres and is the premier weight for age race on australia's racing calender. worth 4-5 million. there has been some very highly world rated godolphin horses attempt and failed lately. please understand So you Think was a very late foal  and was actually a 2 yr old when he won at his 3rd start.then the year later.
as he was born to the southern hemisphere times he becomes a 5 yr old in europe when in fact he really is 3 1/2 years old.
in regards to the Melbourne cup, So You Think did a mighty job with a huge weight over 2 miles not having raced further than a mile and a 1/4 and raced 3 days in a group 1 and won easily before his 3rd in the melbourne cup .. it was only his class that he ran 3rd. The mighty YEATS couldnt win the Melbourne Cup with simular weight at 2 attempts i believe.

i appoligise  quote :when in fact he really is 3 1/2 years old.
it should read he is 4 australian times

can i ask you, what did Rewilding contribute to the race besides sitting at the back of the field asleep and swooping late

What did Rewillding contribute to the race? Hmmm, he won it? What did England contribute to last Ashes series?

Rewilding is also 4yo. 

How many 2 horse G1 races do you see? (though admittedly many appeared to think this was a one horse race before the event!)

You're right about the thread title - don't see too many threads entitled: 'Rewilding...a success'

I did n't even have a bet in the race.... it's the 'one-eyedness' that beats me. Clear to me a lot of the contributors on here knew next to nothing about the other horses before the race and just assumed SYT had to turn up to win, deserve everything they got... now trying to turn it into some sort of moral victory.

As I stated earlier, I think the horse (SYT) ran a great race, may well have won if the race had panned out differently and that the form is very solid (my only reservation on that score being that both the principals had a tough race).

Like the horse, hate the hype.

i love the hype, pushes horses i want to back out in price, another AOB hotpot out tomorrow stepping up in distance on ground that will make this a stiffer stamina test with some useful opposition

If an Australian trainer over here in Aus had not prepared his horse for a big race properly, spent one month spewing verbal diarrhea about how good the horse was, best ever, greatest horse, fit for the queen, etc etc, then sent out his own son on another horse to check into him during the race he would be seen as a complete laughing stock........as is the case here BTW.

Would never happen here.....NEVER.

I feel like a complet muppet for not realising this kind of crap is what happens over in Europe.

Yes i made a mistake in beleiving Aidan O'brien MAY know WTF he was doing, I wont be making that mistake twice.

Yeats made one attempt at the Melbourne Cup and throughout his career he was always at his brilliant best in June seeming disinterested by Autumn (let alone November).

Best thing they could do for SYT is prepare him for a third Cox Plate. Wherever he goes next the big guns will be out.

The horse SYT will work the trainer out, and win next start. imo.

By: hippie
Date Joined: 07 Jun 05 Add contact When: 17 Jun 11 12:25 Yeats made one attempt at the Melbourne Cup and throughout his career he was always at his brilliant best in June seeming disinterested by Autumn (let alone November).

this time of the year SYT would be in a paddock getting fat with a woolie coat back in australia. seems europe horses take 12 months to climatize in australia when bought, maybe the same should be said of SYT....can someone tell me who these gun group 1 horses are? on SYT's run frankel wouldnt beat him. i seen both run at Royal Ascot and the lead horse damaged SYT's reputation more than Frankels did and Franks sectionals were slower than SYT's

Workforce, Behkabad (currently injured), St Nicholas Abbey and a little girl called Snow Fairy.

^ and Pour Moi by the time the Arc comes around.

Frankel's a miler - it's fanciful/ignorant to compare or suggest he'd ever meet SYT.

SYT would slaughter Frankel over POW 12f - SYT would n't see which way Frankel went over 6f. Why on earth are you comparing him with Frankel?

Probably a good idea to put SYT into handicap company over here to get an idea of how good he really is all hype aside.

Trouble with all this blather about eng v aus prize money Cummings stupidity and AOB's foul ups distracts from the reality out on the race course.

Its there in the result

We will have to leave Frankel out of this argument, we would need Black Caviar for comparisons on that, maybe next year we will see a match up if we are lucky.

Frankel is fantastic as far as im concerned, hes on a different level, from what ive seen hes better than Black Caviar at this moment of time, but BC could just be as good, we dont know yet until they match up though.

I remember the good old days when we had a horse could SYT, he was a truly great horse with a truly great trainer, then he was sold overseas, never heard of him again after that......

The thing i find very strange about this whole forum BTW is the lack of any conviction for people to put their money where their mouths are, although there dose seem to be one thread devoted to bets on antepost runners.

I found a thread where two people took SYT on at the 1.40/1.50 range, and a few "claiming" they did after the event LOL.

You can still get fantastic odds against him on most races nominated yet noone seems keen to state they have. I admit i am 50/50 as to whether i can back him now as ive lost faith in O'Brien rather than the horse, but the two need to co exist well for all to be right before i can commit to a bet.

So far I am greened up at small amounts on the field for the Eclipse and Arc from before this race, nothing on the King George or Sussex at this stage as i never got that far ahead of myself.

Im stumped now what im going to do going forward.

I see an unfortanet number of aussie's on here conforming to the stereotype of being way too defensive about Australian things (no breeding comments please, i think it's established by now )

But there are Aussie's on here that do not believe australian racing is the be all and end all of racing and still believe SYT is brilliant simply because they believe that, not because of where he is from.

And incidentally. There's just as many of you brit's on here with tunnel vision in the opposite direction. Clearly there were excuses in the POW. Whether they're strong enough to make up for it or not it's hard to say. But to completely write him off after the POW is stupid.

Only time will tell, personally i'll still be backing him over 10f at any price over close to or above evens, which I fully expect to get in the eclipse if he runs.

Keep backing him if/when you think he's over the odds force.

I still believe the Frankel/SYT bet was the bet of the carnival. Perhaps behind the CC/Frankel bet actually, so in retrospect I should've had more on that one.

But anyway, the Frankel/SYT bet was still over the odss IMO. Just because an even money bet is over the odds does not mean it is a certainty. If everyone you backed who you felt was over the odds won then betting would be a mighty nice game.

I still believe anything close to evens over 10f on SYT is over the odds and will bet accordingly.

Totally agree tommy, but don't worry about only getting evens. After all he was beaten by an "average" European horse and next time, you know when Europe pulls out their "big guns" surely the big mouths on here will clear out the cob webs in their pockets and give us decent odds about So You Think.[;)]

That was my one of my first thoughts when they went past the post (my first thought of course being holy crap that was a lot of money I just lost)

But i'm not so convinced now, i'm especially concerned with how little his odds in the king george and arc were adjusted. If that is a sign of things to come then evens might be lucky.

I have gotten juicy odds on most races with SYT so far and greened up long ago, due to the nature of Ante Post betting its never good to leave your dick swinging in the wind on these types of races. I very rarely bet on the actual race day unless im greening up all over.

I will need to be tempted by higher prices for SYT to get "back on the horse", excuse the pun.[;)]

About $5.00 or higher will get my attention on Ante Post races, any less than that im passing on a risk/reward basis.

How did you even take ante-post on these races from aus? By time I saw them up on aussie sites his odds had been crunched.

Im betting on Betfair/horseracing/Ante Post/GB.

Type in So You Think in the search box and all his races are on tap. I was betting these races a month or two ago.

WTF are you people doing? Dont tell me you are using the TAB and making that Glen Munsie muppet rich!

I had bets matched at 7.2 and 7 on this race and layed of at 2.7 and low 2's. I put some back on at 1.7 a few days before the race so covered my ass either way.

Its the only way to play these IMO.

You obviously must then believe that AOB included JV as pacemaker for the benefit of Planteur and TO in a bid to get his own horse beaten?

Actually it's not just me, but the general concensus seems to be that AOB has no idea what he's doing with regard to training or race tactics for a horse like So You Think. Employing a pacemaker in the first place is unnecessery for a horse that has his natural easy speed. Employing your son to ride the pacemaker who subsequently clumsily checks the favourite is the equine version of the keystone cops. Then to top it all off, actually going on record to admit he failed to have the horse fit enough on the day!

If that is not a calamitus trifecta of blunders, I have no idea what is.

Advantage Aussie.....spot on.......total fiasco.

Im just thinking if Mark Webbers father was race manager at Red Bull racing and he sent Webber out as the "pacesemaker" to Sebastian Vettel (the faster driver) wherby Mark was instructed to be in the lead at the first corner in which he cut in and checked Vettel causing damage to his car and therefore both of them ultmately losing the race.

This is the kind of insanity that went on here folks!

I will leave you with the just released "trollform" jockey ratings for this race.

..........FAIL, mud on his face.

..........FAIL, no thumbs up here for trying to take out the stablemate and rcae favourite.


..........WIN, though overturned on appeal to FAIL by animal rights activists, last seen being escorted off the race course by the RSPCA.

2 days after the event and the Aussie skanks are still bleating about their boy . So sad . I wonder what the excuse'll be after Workforce chews him up and spits him out .

Workforce chew him up, you smelly poms really do have an inferior complex. SYT run under the circumstances was fantastic. If the way you  view that horse race leads you to pot the run I'm going to start betting on your races because there must be a lot of easy money. Go and have your monthly bath and a cup of tea and take another look

"you smelly poms need a bath"

hardly timeform is it!

AOB has ruined Group 1 Ante Post betting with his multiple entries and lack of info on intentions.

Workforce is the only Middle Distance horse in Europe i would make favourite v So You Think.

Be different if Canford Cliffs or Frankel step up.

english racing is an absolute joke,, they race for a pittance,they have their annual bath and put on silly hats and strutt around like their **** doesnt stink. take away the sheiks and the industry would fold in a week.the countries economy is stuffed and eglish is no longer the first language and yet people on this thread seem to take joy in bagging australians and rejoicing in so you thinks loss like its a win for the poms over the aussies...pleeeeeeease, dont ever, ever think we'd swap places....poor bastards.

Sorry about the monthly bath jibe I am well awere some of you bath once a week

agree with all  myscrappy wrote,as well the poor mofo's have to listen to a CLUELESS Mcquirk,and the jocks are second rate,seriously bad,i mean how good did Mosse look last night,just outrode those amateurs

I remember the song sung by the barmy army while on tour out here a few years back, "we get three dollors to the pound"

Most recent tour, I don't remember them singing no more "we get a dollar and a half to the pound" probably didn't have quite the impact

And to think, they initially sent us over here as punishment!

Back to post race thoughts.

On reflection, I thought So You Think's performance was incredibile, what with him carrying not only the jockey but O'Brien and his son too, he surely set a weight carrying record!

And here's silly me, thinking the Melbourne Cup would be the last handicap race he ran in!!!

I have come to the conclusion that this whole SYT fiasco was about as strange as this song.......which is very strange BTW.

http://youtu.be/6_W_xLWtNa0

Sooty you wrote: Rondetto...can i explain to you, the Cox Plate is run over 2000 metres and is the premier weight for age race on australia's racing calender. worth 4-5 million. there has been some very highly world rated godolphin horses attempt and failed lately. please understand So you Think was a very late foal  and was actually a 2 yr old when he won at his 3rd start.then the year later.
as he was born to the southern hemisphere times he becomes a 5 yr old in europe when in fact he really is 3 1/2 years old.
in regards to the Melbourne cup, So You Think did a mighty job with a huge weight over 2 miles not having raced further than a mile and a 1/4 and raced 3 days in a group 1 and won easily before his 3rd in the melbourne cup .. it was only his class that he ran 3rd. The mighty YEATS couldnt win the Melbourne Cup with simular weight at 2 attempts i believe.

While the Cox Plate is a very valuable race it never has and never will attract the best horses in Europe as long as the Breeders and Arc exist. You mention Yeats and call him Mighty. To be perfectly frank as good as he was he wouldn't have blown wind up Fame and Glory's backside and I loved the horse and backed him in each of his Gold Cup wins.

No matter what AOB says about him training him wrong that's complete rubbish coming from a man who thinks nothing but shed value before he opens his mouth.

Are we to believe a man who turned round the form of Roderick O'Conner by over 30 lengths in a fornight makes mistakes on the lead up to Roya Ascot? I hardly think so.

So You Think was beaten by a horse who finished 8 lengths behind Workforce in the Derby who was then said to be a certainty for the St Leger and failed miserably.

He is nowhere near the best in the Europe yet despite the facts the hype continues.

So You Think is no Phar lap he's just a very good horse hyped up by the media selling you racing.

We had it with Crand Cruz, So You Think and just the other day Shamooz all being hailed as the next superhorse and we'll have another couple before the
year is out. They all looked like superstars but the truth is they beat nothing a point very conveniently missed by the media.

The way I look at it if So You Think couldn't win at Royal Ascot the chances of beating Workforce a Derby and Arc winner even at 12 furlong must lie somewhere between nil and zero.

Available at 9/2 and better for the Arc and King George if you shop around... so end story is...  get your wallets out and back your judgement... hopefully not to the poor house...

I shan't be backing it again - I think it's had its chance and it took five trebles and a five-fold of mine with it when it went down, incidentally...

It'll win more soft Gp1s on softish ground, I bet, but is no wonder horse and on good ground in England or France will be found out more times than not..

Underrate a fit and fresh Rewilding at your peril

Underate a fit and fresh DETORRI at your peril  [;)]

TORondetto,  Sterling Morrison, hippie, ReaseHeath,  Somerset_Moan, tobermory,  rogerthebutler
zilzal1,  Stan2,  Dark Destroyer .

Read and Weep "SO YOU THINK, THE WORLD CHAMPION"

maybe you will understand australians and new zealanders have no hurry need to send their good horses to europe, besides the better $$$ per race, racing is 2nd to none. proves the Cox Plate which Obrien stated after So you Think BEAT workforce is hopefully on the agenda. its australiasia's verson of the arc but at 1m 2f, best of the best going for weight for age championship.

Just a reminder, black caviar IS the greatest sprinter to ever race in Australia where as so you think is a one in a decade type champion.
maybe frankel could come down under for a ass whipping over 6-7 furlongs.

Yeah hes a champion

I never said he was useless anyway .I had him rated about 127, behind only Workforce at Middle Distance, now i'd have both of them about 129/130.

Workforce was hardly blown away so i'd give him a 50-50 chance to reverse the result, but i wouoldn't make any middle distance horse in Europe fav vs So You Think.

Having said that though the hype was that he was as good as anything we've seen, the reality so far is he is the best of an - at best - average group of middle distance horses , so not - IMO - 'a once in a decade' type.

The very best around are racing at 1 Mile. And any of the 3 that stepped up to 10f i would expect to beat SYT handily.

My idea of The Top 10

137	Frankel
133	Canford Cliffs
133	Goldikova
129.5	So You Think
129.5	Workforce
125.5	Rewilding
124	Sarafina
124	Planteur
124	Dick Turpin
123.5	Pour Moi

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/a-p-obrien-cape-blanco-wins-man-o-war-for-obrien/882258/top/#

Shove THAT up your arse, Bart - I'm so effing great  - Cummings... and all the oiks on here who thought it was clever to blame AOB for Ascot etc

So he's won some HANDICAP down under a dozen times...has he ever won a group one OUTSIDE his own little parochial racing scene?  If he has I bet he's not won many!!

Not a fan of Coolemore these days... and fear AOB's comments afterwards demonstrate he has to dance to their tune - just shuffle the group one performer cards and see how they drop... CB in the Irish Derby... then CB in the QUEEN ANN????    Luckily for the horse the new part-owners have some say now and will ensure it gets to travel and make some real dough

ANYWAY... well done AOB... and well done Spencer

Sooty five - ONE race does not make him a world champion, you arse!  He's a very fine 10f horse and that is our weakest division... but he's proven nothing yet...

It was  brave and sportsmanlike of PKA and SMS to run Wf over a distance that was short of his best on ground that was too fast for him...

WHEN Coolemore have the guts to risk their horse's (SYT) reputation by running him over 12f on g-s we shall SEE... if he goes to the KG or Arc he'd be stufffed bigtime

SYT may go up a pound perhaps for the Eclipse (I doubt it as Workforce did not give his best) and he may be the best 10f horse around - we'll know when he meets some 10f grp 1 specialists and he goes to the USA or HK... but he's still not going to be top rated anywhere...

It's noticable looking at these ratings that the Aussies have JUST FOUR in the top 38 in the world - that's horses rated 120 and above... five if we give you SYT... and ALL ARE OLDER HORSES

You may say yours mature late. I would counter all our best ones TEND to go to stud at 3... (Something I regret)  so it's impossible and frankly childish and stupid to try and claim world championship at all, let alone based on one race against a non-10f specialist who ran 6-8 lbs below his best

http://community.betfair.com/guineas2011/go/thread/view/121617/27790313/so-you-think-he-was-a-failure?sdb=1&pg=last#502074925

Take a look before you mouth off...

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/resources/2011Rankings/2011_0630_WTR.asp

That's the world rankings thread HERE

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/resources/2011Rankings/2011_0630_WTR.asp