FRANKEL..is this the worst tactics ever used on a top class horse??

Possibly,but maybe the horse aint as good as they thought?

terrible tactics,i don't understand why they give such a good horse such hard races

Queally seems to lack a clock in his head/confidence & b@lls to hang on to the best horse hes ever likely to sit on.
The horse settled beautifully , i can understand he wanted to move up the rail when the oppourtunity arose but to then ask Frankel to quicken to reel his pacemaker in so suddenly seemed bizzare.
Piggott & Cauthen the 2 best ever jocks @ Warren Place would have been mortified watching that.

Didn't catch it myself but someone of the Horse Forum posted Queally had said something to the effect that he was concerned that the pacemaker was going to win

It's right up there  with Jimmy Fortune's insistance that Raven's Pass needed holding up regardless of what fractions ( the crawl of that year's  Sussex Stakes is a case in point ) were being set.

Surely it can't be the worst tactics used on a top class horse.

It won for christ's sake.

If Barcelona put Messi in goal and beat my local pub team 3-2, does that make it a good tactic?

I thought it had gone too early and was worried from 2 and half out...but maybe it was just brilliant tactics...they know this horse inside out.

queally had to be under instructions to do wat he did..he got away with it this time but i would be surprised if they use these tactics again esp over further.....

If Barcelona put Messi in goal and beat my local pub team 3-2, does that make it a good tactic?

but yep they shudnt ever release him so early again!! i dont ever wanna see him beaten

*great post i meant to say about barca

The only time i've seen tactics like those before, going flat out from halfway and hoping to not drop dead before the end, is where a jockey at Fontwell or somewhere like that tries to 'pinch' a seller on a 33/1 shot

To answer the question, yes. He ran all the way to the line over a mile at Ascot last year, but they've arguably made him look a doubtful stayer the last two times. Whatever about the Guineas, Cecil clearly wasn't happy with today's ride judging by post-race interview on ATR.

no Cecil seemed very disturbed by what he saw and also relieved at the finish.

what you mean pinching a seller tobermory?

I mean where you have a useless horse which has no hope if the race is run in a normal way, so the jockey tries to to go for broke and hope the others are caught out and don't respond.

so its safe to say frankel wont ever be "released" that early in a race again

cecil said on timeform radio it was more like plan z...so tom didnt ride horse to instructions....that aint good for tom...he could b dropped by the grimster and co...in fact i would go so far as to say he will now lose the ride....i hope not but these connections show no mercy..i sense a greville starkey moment coming on::000

it was serious negligence and he deserves to lose the ride

unleashing on the bend would have had us all salivating tonight

lets face it dubwia gold smashed up again wooton basset stuffed dream ahead beatean twice by miles and that boti horse beaten agin by 2 3/4 lenghts whats all the fuss about see the satrs only ever won by 1/2 lengh

he wins how he wins who cares

point is if he does that against serious milers he wont win

pacemakers tactics are a joke,you'd get time over here for that..a good horse should win no matter what the pace..but yeah shocking ride,some awful unbalanced jockeys over there..

I think some on here are being a bit OTT on their assessment of the race.

Frankel won in a time only 1 second outside the course record.

Yes tactics weren't the best but as for suggesting Queally should lose the ride even with a 100% record on the horse is crazy.

reckon if tom had waited another half furlong and not panicked wed have seen a repeat of the royal lodge,i recall myself in a 800m race once,i had a devastating kickand usually would track the leaders and go, but on one occassion i decided to try and destroy the field and decided to use all my speed much sooner ,i was collared last 5.yds and legs had gone, its all about timing that electric burst of pace.by the way im not steve ovett/ nor lord coe .the same imo happened on midday went a shade to early ,

With hindsight, the horse wasn't ridden to best advantage. He's far superior to the likes of Zoffany, Neebras etc. But it's not hard to imagine Queally's thinking after a couple of furlongs yesterday: "Frankel raced hard from the outset at Newmarket and won by a street but he's settled and raced within himself so far today so if I quicken it up now he should be able to maintain a strong gallop all the way to the line." He almost certainly overdid it in terms of the speed he asked Frankel to go at thereafter. But how many of the people criticising Queally now actually thought as he went past Rerouted yesterday that Frankel was going to win impressively? If you were sitting there thinking that this was ridiculous and he'd gone far too soon then you're entitled to have a go. If you thought he was going to dot up then you're aftertiming.

To answer your last question Augustine I was genuinely saying to myself 'what is he doing?'.  It is Frankel who I feel most sorry for as the headlines today should be about the wonder horse instead you have people who don't understand horseracing putting up headlines such as 'Clings On' and you have the general public wondering what all the fuss is about.

It was a very poor ride. If the race had been over 100 yds more Zoffany would have gone past him. Frankel
is a much better horse than Frankel and was only given a chance by poor race riding. Queally seemed to panic
for some reason . The horse has a dramatic turn of foot why use it 3f out?. He ended up giving the horse
a hard race when if he'd  held on to him he'd have won 2 lengths still on the bridle. These hard races
Queally keeps giving Frankel could catch up with the horse. Canford Cliffs would have Beat Frankel easily
today assuming frankel was ridden the same way, yet I think Frankel is a better horse. It's been mentioned
before that Queally is a big problem for Frankel backers and the race bore this out. If lester was on him
he'd be virtually unbeatable with Queally on him ,as seen yesterday, he is very beatable.

should read frankel is a much better horse than Zoffany

tinkler Lester is not on him and never will be so its a pointless case that you put, we see all the top jockeys make mistakes Hughes, Moore Dettori and Spencer make big clangers. In a race you have very little time to think Queally made the decision to go and he won. Imagine if he sat and waited and got boxed in that would be worse. Give Queally a break ffs.

I think Khalid Abdulla must be seriously considering a jockey change; it's not just yesterday when Tom seemed to almost panic, but that ride on Midday in the Coronation. He seems to oscillate between excellently judged rides (type Twice Over in Eclipse couple of years ago), and dreadful ones. Johnny Murtagh?

Steamship
My comments are from a betting perspective. From a non betting point of view i hope Queally keeps the ride
and gives Frankel dream rides in the future. His old mentor Barney Curley could help him out. No one knows
how to operate more under pressure than Barney.

every one on here is ajockey and a trainer . the only fact needed is this he won he has never lost and everything who they put up against him loses

hannon obrein stoute all said he is the best they have ever seen at 2/3 old over a mile   so who can argue with that

The only time i've seen tactics like those before, going flat out from halfway and hoping to not drop dead before the end, is where a jockey at Fontwell or somewhere like that tries to 'pinch' a seller on a 33/1 shot

Couldn't agree more, employing these tactics on a long shot is a worthwhile risk to take, because "stealing" the race is the only hope you have.

Using these tactics on a long odds on favourite is just ridiculous. The jockey is lucky Frankel is still good enough to win despite him. Had he lost a lynching was in order.

There needs to be some context, sure he made a mistake, but he's under a lot of pressure and is still a young
jockey and learning. He's trying his best to win and given more time will hopefully work through it.

I don't see SHC jocking him off.. do you? 

TQ's Guinneas ride on Jacqueline's Quest last year was a shocker... watch out for her today with Murtagh up, btw...

Does the Owner have a record of jocking off or will the racing manager demand it? 

Someone ring up Kinane and tell him to get in the shower and Sauna... it needs someone of his craftiness to teach the horse a little more and to utilise the unbelievable talent and speed there in new/different ways... MK on Seathestars was the epitome of race-riding genius... horse never looked like getting beaten as a 3-yr old and the way he won the Arc weaving through the pack in the last furlong still gets me screaming at the tv every time I watch it!

Yes he may be learning but he just doesnt seem to have a clue whether hes doing 11.5 secs per furlong or 12.5 to admit he thought the pacemaker might steal the race is extremly naieve when the hcapper pacemaker was putting in sprinting fractions early doors.
For the long term future of the horse stepping up in trip to 1m 2 i think hes seriously compromised that potential venture.
The way Queally rode him yesterday left an impression that the July Cup was clearly next target(which it aint).
It was clear Sir Henry wasnt happy & that wasnt the plan without stating & directly blaming Queally in public.

Quelly did give him a bad ride the same as last time out he went too early, I would love to see him bolt around 2 and a half furlongs out, he would take it out of every horse atm. Sir Henry clearly doesn't want him ridden like that so can't see past a new jockey next time out for Frankel and a big win maybe by 8 - 10 lengths

Does the Owner have a record of jocking off

Yes replaced Starkey with Eddery for Dancing Brave

Need Stevie Cauthen to stop quaffing the champagne, or ven the Long Fella, they knew how to ride fractions

I would like to see a wonder horse take on the extraordinary Goldikova, and the very good Canford Cliffs and demonstrate clear superiority.

No chance with current pilot.

Have seen a few potentially great horses ridden into obscurity (Mtoto anyone)

Mtoto didn't end up obscure!

Didn't win the Arc

Should have

Had to come from a mile back there, huge field, very rough race.

Wouldn't blame Roberts.

Anyway 2 Eclipses (when The Eclipse was of a higher standard than nowadays) and a King George means he is remembered.

Ok What about White Muzzle.....

ladies and gentleman we have a new contender

step forward ryan moore on so you think

that one i thought was a bit overated

nice horse , group 1 contender , but never a superstar

My point being with the exception of Dancing Brave who was lucky enough to get rid of Greville Starkey and  get a second chance a horse can be well remembered, highly thought of; but never rated a true super star due to failing at the very highest level due more to pilot error than any innate weakness in the horse

They need to tempt Mick KINANE out of retirement methinks with the promise of riding thise feller and the rest of PKA's horses for the next 18  months...

WHo else is there GUARANTEED not to be claimed for a competitor in a certain race... Murtagh is spoken for... I wouldn't trust Spencer on it any more than TQ... Hughes is Fallible... as is Moore (and is tied up anyway)... the young Barzelona clearly has gonads (and apparently was TOLD to wait until the last furlong and come down the middle of the track and did exactly that in a racecourse gallop at Epsom weeks earlier...but we're really looking for an old pro who could nurture the horse, listen to SHC but still be able to make an educated decision in a race if something unexpected happens...

Whom do you suggest?  I suspect we get to keep TQ based on day to day availablility, SHC's loyalty, and his knowledge of the horse, notwithstanding his clear inadequacies (Viz Frankjel rides, twice over, jacqueline's quest etc etc)

Feels like american style racing is taking over.pure panic on a young jockey.