Frankel - horse of a generation?

Sea The Stars was the horse of a generation.

Frankel's win today was nothing short of stunning - I wasn't around when Secreteriat won the Belmont or Shergar the Derby, and hadn't enough knowledge to appreciate Hawk Wing in the Lockinge or Arezi in the Breeders Cup Juvenile but that is the sort of performance that this one is deserving to be compared to.

But Sea The Stars did it at 8f, at 10f, at 12f, in Ireland, in the UK, in France on many unique courses, Epsom, Longchamp, Newmarket, time after time. He never looked like losing and he had the best temperment to match his brilliant ability.

So until Frankel repeats that performance and proves versatility and consistency, he's nothing more than a very good horse.

i must research this Sea The Stars.

Well Viva some of who did see Secretariat and Shergar are still around so Sea the Stars is hardly a horse I would have on my mind as the horse of a generation. He was good he was consistent but fell short in one department.......he was about as exciting as watching paint dry.

When horses like Sea Buscuit, Secretariat, Nijinsky Sea Bird II and even the queen herself Zenyatta ran there was a buzz of excitement that surrounded them. You always new you could expect something out of the ordinary to happen but with Sea The Stars it never quite happened. Just a very very good horse around at the right time I'm afraid.

Sea the Stars Arc win was like 'watching paint dry',then? What rubbish. One freaky Classic win does make a horse of a generation. On the other hand, Secretariat and Sea the Stars were themselves freaks. Frankel may be -- but he aint yet.

Don't forget the unbeaten and thrilling to watch Zarkava

Frankel's win reminded me of Attraction's 2004(?) all the way 1000G win (in a time 1 second quicker than Frankel's).
Not meaning to demean Frankel but I don't think he has the class of Sea the Stars.

comparing bare times from different race days let alone years apart is meaningless ... you have to compare against every other race on the card which takes into account that days race conditions, going and wind etc ...

Sea The Stars was a high class colt whose best speed figure from me came in the Eclipse when posting 96 on my scale, at that time was way above any rating i'd given a horse and I was wary of it until he posted 94 in the York International, then 93 in the Irish Champion stakes. Then last year I gave Workforce 93 for his Derby win and later in the year Frankel was getting massive figures from me as a 2 yr old, 90 at Doncaster and 89 in the Dewhurst.

Frankel in the guineas gets a 95 from me which on time figures (compared to every other race on the card) ran only 1 length per mile below Sea The Stars Eclipse.


To me, Frankel is every bit as classy as Sea The Stars and has achieved a heck of a lot more at this time of their respective careers.

comparing sts and frankel is absolutely worthless at this stage, the bare form of the horses so far that frankel has beat is absolutely garbage!  we dont even know if the 'good ones' like pathfork, casamento etc have trained on. he beat complete no hopers by 6L.

he will never and i cant stress this enough NEVER achieve the succession of races that sts did, he is far less versatile for  a start as this season, he hasnt beaten one worthwhile (3yr old colt/filly) yet. as mentioned pathfork et al were good 2 yr olds, and that was not their form the other day and if u think many of the horses ran to form u may have brain damage! lets see what they achieve at the end of the season and then judge.

1.01 frankel won win the guineas derby and arc(i wont even mention the other 3 gp 1's ). looks like he wont even line up for the other 2, his trainer knows he wont win them, already making sts the horse of his generation. sts has claims as being the gretaest horse EVER, whether u think it or not, what he did has never been done in the history of the sport.

and as far as sts being as exciting 'as watching paint dry', this person obviously doesnt appreciate TRULY great horses and is unable to actually quantify the enormity of sea the stars achievements. probably gets more excited by a 10L winne of a nottingham maiden than he does by watching truly great champions, the greatest the sport has ever known. u hear this b00locks 'what did sts beat'? go look up his fooking form and see that he beat practically every single winner of every other g1 held in europe that he didnt take part in either collaterally or directly and even down to the horses tailed of in his races such as steele tango have gone on to win group races, his form is some of the strongest there is, there are no holes. the only in his form is the fact that unfortunately he couldnt go back in time and beat nijinsky to prove he was the greatest.

frankel is still yet to prove himself, he was brilliant on saturday and only a fool would say otherwise but the performance neesd to be put in to perspective in relation to the other runners. its no coincidence that many of the placed runners and the winner had a prep run and that seems to have helped their performance a great deal. i mean dubawi star? who was he before the  guineas. lets see if he can  go on to frank frankels form, lets seem him win a g1 then we maybe be able to appreciate how great/poor this guineas truly was.


as for comparing sts with frankel NOW, pointless, like comparing dancing brave with the tatling. and if he doesnt go to the derby and win, thats it, its over with regard to debating which one is the horse of a generation, if hes so brilliant he needs to win the derby now, hes not even going to line up from the looks of due to his stamina doubts! horses of generations dont have stamina doubts so much so that their trainer doesnt even bother showing up! the comparisons are laughable at such an early stage.

gimme a break!

ilikewavingatbuses... your are missing the point...big style i lost my interest in horse racing a decade ago. the sport has been in decline for years. go in any bookies and there is more business around those awful roulette machines. frankel is a star. easy to pick holes in him.i,m guessing your preference was john higgins over hurrican higgins? italian football over brasilian? gatting before botham? i for one will be paying to see frankel

ilikewavingatbuses... your are missing the point...big style i lost my interest in horse racing a decade ago. the sport has been in decline for years. go in any bookies and there is more business around those awful roulette machines. frankel is a star. easy to pick holes in him.i,m guessing your preference was john higgins over hurrican higgins? italian football over brasilian? gatting before botham? i for one will be paying to see frankel

no i see the point explo and i think the horse is an absolutele machine, sat was amazing but to call him a horse of a generation on the back of it when we had a horse 2 yrs ago that won both classics, the arc and 3 other gp1s , one a month, its never been done.

so if frankel is the horse of this generation, what does that say about sts achievements?



frankel is certainly excitiing to watch i wilol five u thint but its premature imo. again a 999/1 shot was forth, it would be folly to take the race literally imo. he will put bums on seats tho.

I can't believe Rondetto.

STS wasn't exciting? What a tool.

He excited me plenty, and i would think most people would agree he was a horse of a generation

Generation X maybe!! You just leave school or is it next summer?

I did enjoy the Arc the only time I backed him but look back 12 months and watch Zarkava and how she won in comparison. Sea the Stars flat to the boards and Zarkava hands and heels. She was by far a better horse than Sea the Stars but got no credit for it because she had gone by then and the media were selling you a lie. She beat the same horses easier in comparison or did you miss that?

I listened to one guy from Timeform last year say he was the best he had even seen and the same man this year telling all Frankel would have absolutely destroyed Sea the Stars not jut beat him but destroyed him. Funny how quick people change their minds when a real superstar comes along.

I laughed at the first statement because Sea the Stars compared to horses like Sea Bird II, Mill Reef, Nijinsky, Danging Brave,Ribot, Secretariat he was boring to watch. Great horses have the ability to travel like Sea the Stars then explode in such a fashion they put lengths between themselves and others.

Like Floyd Patterson was a great boxer but he was no Muhhamad Ali, Sea the Stars was a great racehorse but he's no Secretariat.

It wasn't that long ago the Media bandwagon had people sold on Duke of Marmalade being an all time great having won 6 consecutive Group 1's but like Sea the Stars the opposition was pretty ordinary by classic standards. In the meantime is who can spot a real star were lumping onto Zarkava at 7/1 months before the Arc when DOM was av and all the rage.

Make no mistake this Frankel is the real deal. He's head and shoulders above Sea the Stars. Not many people will realise this but such was his impact as a 2 year old he was already rated the same as Zarkava going into the Guineas as she was at the end of her career.

If you lot are trying to convince me that Sea the Stars had 1/10th of Frankels talent then you are peeing against the wind.

Wavinatbuses don't kid yourself about the Guineas and people just might be underestimating how good a horse Dubawi Gold is. According to Hughsie he would have won 7 of the last 10 Guineas and people are being unfair saying he only finished 2nd because others were taken of their feet. He beat the rest fair and square including a horse Fallon said before the Guineas was highly underated and is now vying for favourtism in the Derby.

Wouldn't take much to be e better than Delegator who finished up STS's backside.

They say if Frankel hadn't run the result would have been different but Hughsie reckons they are talking through a hole in their backsides and this is one very good horse. Time will tell.

surely u can see that the reason sts didnt put 10L between himself and the rest of the field is because hes too smart, hes probably the cleverest race horse to hit the track too, how do u think he was able to win all the races he did not a bother to him. he worked harder than was required and thus allowed him to a g1 every month.

frankels guineas was amazing, theres no disputing that but lets put it in to perspective here in relation to the achievements of sts, an achievement that will most likely NEVER be match, theres a reason frankel isnt goin to the derby, this wonder horse that can beat any horse thats ever lived by 20L, 'the greatest ever', hes not the complete racehorse, and lack the depth and overall ability that sts and dancing brave and sea bird, they all have one thing in common in that they won the guineas as well as middle distance races, frankel isnt even lining up for the derby, wonder horse?

u are talking about how frankle would have destroyed sts if they had been in the same guineas as if its already happened just because some radio pundits won timeform whose opinion, because thats all it is, opinion is only as good as the mug punters in the local bookies and u talk like they are god and what they say matters  so it must be true. sea the stars guineas time was even faster than frankels and dont kid youself, there wasnt a lot if anything left in frankels locker at the end, they were closing on him if anything.

frankel will never win an arc or a derby sts won them all inc the guineas, there is absolutely no comparison, look min their trophy cabinets at the end of the season and tell me whose better. the fact that sts was a dual classic winner already makes his race record better by default let alone the bleedin arc and the rest of the races.

how quickly people forget and just attach their colours to the next up and coming star. u probably said workforce would destroy sts after is derby did u? of course not

HORSE OF ALL TIME MORE LIKE!

Bayardo 22, Pretty Polly 22 wins
Brigadier Gerard, Lemberg, Marsayas 17
Ribot, Rock Sand, Prestige 16
Dahlia. Tenerani 15
Pharos, Nearco, Abernant, Petite Etoile, Ardross 14
Sceptre, Tetratema, Allez France, Moorstyle, Park Top, Goldikova 13
Mill Reef, Fairway, Brantome, Tantieme, Pappa Fourway, Halling 12
Pearl Cap, Nijinsky, Prince Palatine,  sardanapale, Le Moss, Daylami, Montjeu 11
Coronach, Windsor Lad, Sayani, Chanteur, Tanerko, Sagaro, Indian Skimmer, Swain 10

Not a full list.  Some lesser horses omitted.  Kincsem won 54 races from 54.

^ from the excellent book
Bayardo, The Life, Times and Legacy of an Edwardian Champion by Peter Corbett

He'd have to win well at 1 1/4m and 1 1/2m to be a horse of a generation. If not he'll always he classed as
a one dimensional miler- possibly one of the best ever.
Nashwan , dancing brave and sea to the stars took the test and delivered; will frankel be given the chance?
Its beginning to look unlikely. They'd rather run him against a handful of rivals over a mile at 1/8.
Anti-climax?

1. Nijinsky
2. Frankel
3. Zenyatta
4. Brigadier Gerard
5. Goldikova

On you go my beauty! On you go!

Money, money, money!

Sea The Stars is the horse of a generation, a Guineas, Derby and Arc winner. Frankel would have been but we will never know now as connections have no bottle or ambition and wont run him in the Derby which he would win by a street. St James Palace what a joke.

Eric Morris - you are a legend on here according to others?

Still to this day horses that finished behind STS are winning Group races he won at the highest level 6 times from 8f to 12f finishing with a victory in an Arc where 6 came out to win Grp 1's after it. He pocketed 4.5 million in his race career.

He is the real horse of a generation!!!

The Derby is the Blue Riband of British racing. Frankel is a horse bred to win the Derby but instead will duck the race for a relatively meaningless St James Palace Stakes (at a course where has has won a Group 2 by 10 lengths, over a distance where he already has 3 wins including a classic by 6 lengths). Exactly what is he supposed to prove by repeating history?

His absence devalues the Derby and could easily set a precedent for potential champions ducking the race in future years. Coolmore, to their credit, have proved willing to take up the challenge often running horses with far less perceived chance of truly staying the trip.

This was the route for Frankel to prove his greatness by winning Classics over a mile and 12 furlongs before moving on to either high profile (and probably small field) 10 furlong races and/or taking on his elders over a mile. Can anyone honestly see him competing against his owner's Workforce in the Arc? 12 furlongs is highly unlikely to happen.

His trainer, who I have and will continue to have the greatest respect for, is known for flying a flag over Warren Place to celebrate winning a Group 1 race. I wonder what his true feelings will be if/when that takes place on the 15th June.

It may well be that by this afternoon the owner/trainer will have a Derby favourite anyway. Good luck to them but for the good of a sport which needs its champions it will, in my opinion, be the wrong horse.


he has already won over

Forget that last bit

Let's hope HRAC great trainer though he is, does not get any more great versatile colts as they are wasted on him he wont try them over 2 Classic trips.

Up

dancing brave, WOW now were talking

?

i don't quite understand why they couldn't even give him an entry in the eclipse?

has anybody seen Frankels races.Too free,would never win over 1m4,hed never get the trip.Agree with trainer,it proves him no less of a superstar.

well it does. he lacks versatility. i mean hes still a superstar but he lacks the versatile brilliance of dancing brave, nijinksky, sea the stars etc.

champion miller perhaps.

miler*

I'm with you buses

A lotta rubbish being written about Frankel

And even more about STS

Demeaning Frankel as a possible horse of a generation simply because he isn't as versatile as others (at least not yet) is faulted. Using that basis, Usain Bolt is not the athelete of a generation.

how long long is a generation?

surely the horse that has won the guineas / derby / juddmonte / eclipse / irish champ and arc is the horse of our generation!

this feat will most likely not be repeated in the next 50 yrs if ever. sts is the 1st to do it for a start in the whole history of the sport. so how the hell can frankel even come in to it, he didnt even run in the derby  due to stamina doubts, he will not top the achievements of sea the stars.

hes already failed by not even taken part in the derby!

it will always be a blot on his copybook.

frankel has potential but frankely [;)] i have not seen enough to judge it as a horse of generation... the guineas win was good but we would like to see more!!! skipping derby raises questions if the horse is one-dimensional...

STS has set the bar very high.. i dont think we will see another horse win as many wins over different distances in different countries... the only complaint i have is STS didnt go to breeders cup but i guess the owners took the rational money decision over win decision

for frankel to be at same level as STS, i would like to see it win few races this year and beat strong opposition .. i doubt if we will see him more than 3-4 times this year... and then off to stud...

not going to the BC was the right thing to do!! what other horse couldve won grp 1s once a month for 6 months without a mid summer break? then be expected to travel across the atlantic. none.


hes the champion, of course it wouldve been great to see him race again over there but he had absolutely nothing to prove, nothing. maybe he'd have went if they skipped the arc or had a break but u cant have it both ways. look at the break frankel has had and he now he only has to race over a distance hes v comfortable with , we know he gets a mile, and he faces opposition hes already destroyed at a course hes already run at. hes 1/3 to win the race, prob shorter on the day, why not go to queen anne and take on the big boys if hes a horse of a generation?

sts sits a top a pyramid of equine perfection achieving something that has never been achieved. frankel is so far a sublime racehorse. his guineas win was breathtaking but he is not sts.

gl

As the Queen Anne is for 4 yr olds + ilwab getting into the race would have been far more difficult than winning it.

with regards to the STS debate @ a mile Frankel would have mullered him.
@ a mile 2 would be a hard call
@ a mile 4 would obviously give STS the nod .
In terms of milers Frankel ranks up there with Brigadier Gerrard & El Gran Senor imo.
1/3 in the Queen Anne is as free as money gets
Will be more like 2/9

i dont think frankel has done anything to prove he would have beat sts over a mile. his time was considerably slower than sts in the guineas and his stride was shortening rapidly in the last furlong. it was beautiful to watch the manner of his victory but so far the horses in behind havent achieved much, with the exception of possibly the worst irish guineas in living memory! then well beat in the french derby, casamento, roderic etc. brutal form so far!

As regards Frankel,the flaw is that he does what he wants, and not what the jockey wants.What happens if he goes off on his own on softer ground with a stiff finish?,he runs the risk of being a sitting duck.Value-wise it will be bad value,there again theres no viable challenge from any 3-y-old at least.
As for STS,99 per cent of horses that pull that hard in the Arc early always flatten out in the straight,i thought he was in trouble,the victory was AWESOME!!!!.
Pity Peintre Celebre was injured and retired,he literally took off late on in the Arc,hecould have proved to have been something exceptional.

Brilliant though Frankel appears to be, I have a sneaking feeling that STS would beat him a cosy length or so over whichever distance they raced, just as he did with all the others. The horse was the ultimate professional only ever doing what he was asked and with Micky-Jo never asking more than was necessary, it is impossible to say what would've happened whichever horse he was asked to face. I've seen some good uns in 25 years + of watching this game. But that fella, with Kinane up, was the best, unquestionably.
That said, i'm looking forward to seeing what Frankel can do over the rest of the season and am particularly interested in seeing how he fares up in trip later on. I suspect he will prove himself the best at a mile, should he meet Canford Cliffs and Goldikova, but at 10f, he could be vulnerable.

Ilwab I dont compile speed figs but just a quick look @ the times on the respective days im certain Frankel would have recorded a better spped fig than STS in the GNS.
Just a bare comparison of times of 2 races from differing yrs is futile as obviously ground & especially wind direction which was a headwind this yr have a great bearing on overall times.
Every race in 2011 GNS day took @ least 2 seconds(and more including 5 f sprint) longer than in 2009 except for Frankel.

its a shame in way that the recession didn't come even earlier than it did, perhaps then the current trend about
keeping olders horses in training due to lower stud fees would have applied to sea the stars. (probably not though)

I think he would have been a superb older horse over 1 mile 2 and 1 mile four and would have kicked horse's like so you think,
workforce and st nicholas abbey into touch. the fact that we are even debating the idea that he could have given frankel a race over 1 mile is a credit to his versatility. Would we even have the same debate with a horse like generous or daylami?

bring sts out of retirement, run them both in a match race over 1 mile 2 at newmarket or ascot. we'd all pay a lot to see that.

Why cant we just enjoy Frankel and not have these moronic free money tosssers on about it all the time

If 3's on shots are your thing then enjoy, but FREE money does not exist you mugs.

I would love to see this wonderfull animal win but a part of me wants to larf so loud at "FREE money" idiots

yeah but it'll win on tuesday, 1.3 is actually a pretty good price, stick a grand on and make an easy 300

There is no free money , but 1.35 is a good price as he would be giving those horses well over a stone in a handicap

I can't wait until Frankel comes across something half way decent

This horse, although a classic winner in a fairly poor Guineas does not deserve to be in the same book, let alone chapter, let alone paragraph, let alone sentence as a true horse of a Generation namely Sea the Stars, Dancing Brave, Brigadier Gerard etc.

Wait until it beats something then say it is a decent 2011, 3year old miler

Think after royal ascot the next race for Frankel will be the juddmonte , think theres a fair chance he will be taking on Carlton House, Horse of a generation ? could be , just hope Frankel is given the chance to prove it i.e diffrent distances and running against his elders.

Sterling,grand prix boss could be pretty decent,beat next time out gp1 winner in japan and connections hopeful having come all this way not for a holiday.

Sterling Morrison
09 Jun 11 09:39
Joined:
24 Jun 03
| Topic/replies: 2,122 | Blogger: Sterling Morrison's blog
I can't wait until Frankel comes across something half way decent

This horse, although a classic winner in a fairly poor Guineas does not deserve to be in the same book, let alone chapter, let alone paragraph, let alone sentence as a true horse of a Generation namely Sea the Stars, Dancing Brave, Brigadier Gerard etc.

Wait until it beats something then say it is a decent 2011, 3year old miler


sorry, but I can't agree with this.. what did sea the stars beat before they were hailing him as a super horse.. rip van winkle? fame and glory? frankel is already a super horse based on his performances on the track.. he thrashed the runner up in the derby at ascot last year, treasure beach. on that form line that makes him 10 lengths better than pour moi.

Quealy the chink in the armour, Fantastic bit of front running on Timepiece..not..went too soon on Midday...and Frankel got him out of trouble at Newmarket...this guy is a bad judge of pace. the man cannot be feeling at all confident about his own ability after those two performances and Cecil must surely feel midday would have won given a little more patience..

I thought they were very poorly judged rides too

Extremely poor

just realised you stick a grand on frankel in the st james, and it's 300 for a minute and half's work

that works out at over 100 million a year

Quelly's own words talking about Frankel "I got a feel off him that I've never experienced from a horse before - and I ride dozens of horses every week".

Yes dozens of horses, the same dozen every week, unlike some of the better jockeys that have sat on and ridden thousands.

Queally factor into the horse = 1/2..4/7..4/6

Yes I agree.  Bit of pocket talk because I was on Midday, but I think some other jockeys on board would have given Midday a much better chance.

Interesting to see tactics from Frankel when it does come up a good horse.  Jockeyship will be crucial when not just able to burn rivals off.

STS beat some pretty good horses by the way, and his wins are in the form book not in the imagination.

frank has done everthing asked of him so far but its far to early to call him the horse of the generation , he is however going in the right  direction .[;)]

sts form like a rock, everything he beat won all the major european grp 1 races he wasnt in. questioning his form is just ridiculous.

thats directed at nobody

unlike you ilikewavingatbuses, I identified sea the stars as being a superb prospect as a two-year old and put up a thread tipping him as next years derby winner. pretty much anyone could point out that sea the stars was an outstanding racehorse now of course.

incidentally i'm just trying to prove the point that it's not always what you beat that proves you are an outstanding racehorse. fame and glory is a one-paced slowboat but for me that doesn't take away from the fact that sea the stars is an exceptional racehorse. just as frankel's performances shouldn't be solely judged by what is finishing behind him.

mythical prince Joined: 20 Sep 06
Replies: 2889 10 Jun 11 18:22 
unlike you ilikewavingatbuses, I identified sea the stars as being a superb prospect as a two-year old and put up a thread tipping him as next years derby winner. pretty much anyone could point out that sea the stars was an outstanding racehorse now of course.



wd

incidentally, how do u know i didnt think he was an outstanding horse at 2?

just curious!

So churlish imo to crab Frankels form at this stage of his career. Beat the derby second and fourth pointless as well as 2 guineas winners coming out of his guineas already.
And on the subject of versatility,could sts win a july cup? probably not. Could Frankel win a king george? probably not given his style of running. They are both versatile just in different ways and we should just appreciate them for what they are/were

well if you did ilawb, then you kept it quiet because I don't recall anything on here.

and at the risk of sounding too eric morris like, I was one of the few to come on here after frankel's DONCASTER
win, and hail him as a superstar. Of course now everyone is doing it.

good grief MP, you are starting to sound like fooking mayweather, get a grip!

i'm just trying to point out that the real skill
is identifiying something BEFORE it becomes generally
accepted knowledge.

on the subject of that I see theres been a lot of money
for this hills horse in the coventry, do they know something?

incidentally ilwab, mayweather and co make the same claims every five seconds, so their claims lose effect.

I only do it for the legends [;)]

at this stage Frankel is a damn good miler,possibly a great miler,but until we see more of him,he cannot be compared to the greats of the past,and he certainly aint the horse of a generation.
It seems the way things are going that he will be kept to a mile,maybe 10 furlongs,so comparing him with the greats that won top races at middle distance as well as a mile is imo not right.
He should be judged against other great milers,and lets face it their aint nowt wrong with that,when you look at the greats we have had over that distance.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE, Buddeliea ... Frankel is superb, hopefully sensational... and we'll know WHEN he takes on older milers... Pls God he stuffs it to the yanks at the Breeders Cup this year and comes back for top TEN furlong international races next year... he could easily win 10mil prize money that way... thing is, cash is not important to the owner, who (having already got some very strong 10-12f horses) may look to keep him unbeaten at 8f...  Either way, he'd give Denman a run in the "Monster" stakes and letr's just enjoy him for what he is and forget the cross-distance comparisons

would love to see him up against Canford and Goldikova at some stage,maybe the Sussex Stakes or the QE11,that would tell us a lot more for sure.
Mouth watering stuff!!
I'm a NH man,but the prospect of them meeting gets me excited,possibly the race of the century.

scrambled home

sts wouldve picked him up and carried him over the line today without coming off the bit.

14sec final furlong


tom nearly blew it!

so,was he dossing as connections said,or was he tired as it looked to me??

Definitely tiring in final furlong but that's not the horse's fault. Queally got it badly wrong sprinting so early. Would have won doing handstands under most other jockeys IMO.

Right,so we dont believe trainer and jockey,and believe our own eyes,fair enough,normal then!!

So given that the jockey rode him far too early,what happens when he meets proper milers??.By that i mean the 2 in the earlier race and not the poor by comparism he has beaten so far.
Presume different tactics, cos repeat that he gets stuffed.
Can he beat Canford??
Not for me. However he is ridden.

the problem is everyone is hyping frankel up so much that the doom
mongerers come out in force when he doesn't win 10 lengths.

lets all chill out and relax, see the horse for what he is, a superb
three year old who could become a great horse. should he be favourite
against canford? no. because the older horse has been there and done it.

But you couldn't definitely say he wouldn't beat him either. was canford
that impressive today? he looked good, but not unbeatable. Ridden with more
restraint we'd see frankel in a much better light.

Totally agree Myth,we dont know who would win,but i can have my view.
Frankel has earned a shot at the best older horses as he has proved to be the best 3yr old.
From what i have seen i really think Canford would beat Frankel,but we will not know for definite till they meet.
And yes he has been over hyped,as often happens,and he was unfairly ridden today to be judged properly.
We certainly need to see him ridden with more restraint in a race with the best,and then we can judge.

Canford Cliffs will crush Frankel

don't think so fft. If anything it could be the other way around. canford cliffs has never excited me in
the way frankel has.

im torn, if they can harrness frankels ability and let him explode final 2 f he would prob be v hard to beat.

did well to win despite the desperate effort from tom to get him beat.

if CC had been in that race yesterday he would have won,no doubt in my mind.However i am pretty sure different tactics will be used with Frankel when they do meet,cant wait myself.Should be a cracker and will be the answer to doubts we have.

you're all forgetting that CC will have to give weight to Frankel. A massive task for CC or any other horse.

All sensible comments

Terrible ride

Still got it all to prove

Lets hope he can

Given the rides Queally has given Frankel and midday recently there must be a chance Khalid Abdullah
will replace him. If Hughes was on Frankel and Queally on CC , I'd be very confident about Frankel winning.
The other way round and I would be unsure about the result due to the concern about what Queally's going
to do, his judgement of pace and timing seems none exsistent when he's under a lot of pressure in these
top races. I hope queally keeps the ride and works through it , he's got the ability, he just needs help
from someone to handle the pressure.

YES!!

Best miler of my generation. Was too young to appreciate the Brigadier.

I remember Secretariat. Horse was amazing although unlike Frankel he had a few losses. IMO if Frankel goes to the Breeders Cup and wins there he can get that reputation.

Another incredible horse is the Australian horse Black Caviar. But I don't think she can get the reputation as one of the best sprinters ever until her owners are willing to run her oustside of Australia.

I think Alleged was the greatest European horse I ever saw.

good thread