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I've been told Frankel will win the 2,000 Guineas

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By:
diktat
When: 28 Apr 11 17:15
does anyone know off hand how many 2000 G winners in the last 10 years had run more than 5 times previously
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 29 Apr 11 12:30
Qipco 2000 Guineas. Saturday 30th April 2011

The first Classic of the season takes place at Newmarket on Saturday 30th April when the top 3yo colts do battle in the Qipco 2000 Guineas. The race has been dominated by Irish-trained runners in recent years with 6 of the last 9 going to horses from across the Irish Sea. Last year, Makfi became the first French-trained winner since Pennekamp won it in 1995.

The trends for the past 10 years:


Breeding

Irish bred: 6-11-72
British bred: 3-6-64
American bred: 1-1-39
French bred: 0-2-4
German bred: 0-0-1
Irish bred horses have won 6 of the last 10 from 40% of the total runners
8 of 10 winners were by a sire who had finished in the first 4 in the Irish, French or English 2000 Guineas (other 2 sires had won group 1’s over a mile: Lockinge & Breeders Cup Mile).
10 of 10 winners were by a sire who’d won a group 1 over 6F to 8F

Recent Form
8 of 10 winners won on their first run as a 2yo
9 of 10 winners posted an RPR of 86+ on debut
7 of 10 winners made their racecourse debut at Newmarket, Curragh or Gowran Park
7 of 10 winners had run at least 3 times before (3 exceptions were unbeaten)
8 of 10 winners had won 2+ races (1 exceptions had run just once)
10 of 10 winners finished in the first 3 last time (8 won)
10 of 10 winners had their last run in August or later
8 of 10 winners posted their highest RPR last time out (2 exceptions posted it on penultimate start)
8 of 10 winners had won at group level (1 exception placed in a group 2 and other had run just once, winning his maiden)
7 of 10 winners were having their first run of the season (3 exceptions won a recognised Guineas Trial)
9 of 10 winners had won over 7F or 8F
3 of 10 winners had won at Newmarket (1 exception was placed on only run at the track, other 6 were having first run here)

2yo Races

National Stakes winner (Pathfork): 2105125 (2-2-7)
Dewhurst winner (Frankel): 914822 (1-2-6)
Beresford Stakes winner (Casamento): 3516 (1-1-4)
Futurity Stakes winner (Pathfork): 2482 (0-2-4)
Solario Stakes winner (Native Khan): 03004 (0-1-5)
Racing Post Trophy winner (Casamento): 06 (0-0-2)
Tattersalls Stakes winner (Rerouted): 080 (0-0-3)
3 of 10 winners ran in the Champagne Stakes, finishing 233
2 of 10 winners ran in the Dewhurst Stakes, finishing 13
2 of 10 winners ran in the Phoenix Stakes, finishing 12
2 of 10 winners ran in the Coventry Stakes, finishing 61
2 of 10 winners ran in the National Stakes, finishing 11

3yo Trials


Craven Stakes winner (Native Khan): 97160025 (1-1-8)
Greenham Stakes winner (Frankel): 630662 (0-2-6)
Trainers
Irish trained runners (6-4-32) have won the race 6 times since 2001.
Aidan O’Brien (4-1-25) has trained 4 winners of the race in the past 10 years including 3 of the last 6.
Barry Hills (1-1-8) and Michael Stoute (1-0-10) are the only other 2 trainers with entrants, to have won it in past 10 years.
Richard Hannon (0-4-15), Jim Bolger (0-2-3) and David Elsworth (0-2-5) have all filled multiple places in the past decade.
Saeed Bin Suroor (0-1-17) last won the race in 1999 but has only seen 1 of his 17 runners make the frame in the past 10 years.
Price
7 of the last 10 winners have been priced between 9/2 and 11/1 but there have been a few upsets recently with 2 of the last 4 winners going off at 25/1 or bigger.
Favourites (1-3-10) have a poor recent record with just 1 winner in the last 10 years, giving a level stakes loss of 7.50.
Summary:
Based on the trends from the past 10 years you are looking for a horse:
·         Sired by a group 1 over 1M that finished in first 4 in a 2000 Guineas
·         Born before 07/04/2008
·         Won on racecourse debut & posted RPR of 86+
·         Run at least 3 times (or unbeaten)
·         Finished in the first 3 last time & posted highest RPR
·         Having first run of the season (or won a Guineas trial)
·         Won a group race
·         Won the National Stakes
·         Won over 7F or 8F
·         Trained in Ireland, especially by Aidan O’Brien

Frankel looks solid but maybe has a chink or two (maybe) have sided with Pathfork as the Harrington yard has done me some favours and Pathfork is a big raw colt who has the stamina and breeding to upset the apple cart. Notes after the run in the national stakes ;-

A first win at Group 1 level for trainer Jessica Harrington and jockey Fran Berry with PATHFORK retaining his unbeaten record and following up his win in the Group 2 Futurity Stakes over course and trip last month with a game victory on very different ground to last time.

The official description was changed to soft after the first race. In the immediate aftermath of the race Harrington was uncertain whether the winner, who fully justified the decision to supplement him at a cost of Euro 20,000 will run again this season, while Berry reported that the colt "never enjoyed the soft ground at any stage".

Ridden prominently as had been the case on his previous start, Pathfork went to the front just over 2f out and, while the runner-up Casemento came back at him in the closing stages, he stuck to his task and held on in a photo-finish. With conditions less than ideal for him, he remains an exacting prospect for next year and a genuine contender for the 2,000 Guineas, for which he is now 10-1 with Ladbrokes and William Hill (from 14 and 12 respectively. He remains 12-1 with Paddy Power for the Newmarket Classic.



You cannot overlook the chances of Casemento either his win at Doncaster over a mile This final Group 1 of the domestic season has a rich history and, while the past three runnings proved to be something of a red herring, three previous winners of the race in the past decade went on to taste Classic success.

It was a mixed bunch in attendance this year and there was a very strong Irish challenge. They raced down the centre of the track and there was just an average early pace on. Things began to get serious nearing the three-furlong marker and the first pair dominated throughout the final 2f, making their efforts more towards the stands´ side late on. Strong form.

CASAMENTO, who was supplemented for the race, made it three wins from four career outings with a game display on his return to the top level, completing the task witha fair amount left in the tank, and gave his trainer a first winner in class. He didn´t need to his best when coming home a clear-cut winner in the Group 2 Beresford Stakes over this trip at the Curragh in September - the same race that last year´s stunning winner St Nicholas Abbey landed before coming here - and his short-head defeat to the unbeaten Pathfork in the National Stakes over 7f at the same venue earlier that month made him the clear form pick in this field. Frankie Dettori was aboard for thisBritish debut and he delivered him to lead nearing 2f out. Seville threw down a strong challenge at the furlong marker and looked a big danger, but the winner was probably idling somewhat as he picked up again to assert his authority nearing the finish.
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 29 Apr 11 15:31
Jessica Harrington
this afternoon.

Well the wait is nearly over. Pathfork and Laughing Lashes travelled well and have settled into Newmarket. Eamonn is delighted with them both! I was delighted to have a double last night in Tipperary which has helped to settle the nerves a little bit!!!! I can't do much more now and it's down to the horses and Fran to do the hard work. Fingers crossed they give us lots to cheer!!!!
By:
diktat
When: 29 Apr 11 22:51
all looks good for Frankel but wasnt that the case for Xaar, Celtic Swing, Dubawi, New Approach and St Nicholas Abbey
By:
badbob
When: 30 Apr 11 03:33
Diktat, I totally agree with your methodology regards short priced 'wonder horses' getting turned over in the 2000 Guineas.

However, the one aspect that I feel you've overlooked is that if you look at Dubawi, New Approach and St Nicholas Abbey, you will see that they had stellar 2YO form BUT then came to the Guineas without a prep run as a 3YO and got beaten.

Frankel is different in that he has already come out as a 3YO and proved he has trained on from 2 to 3.

Given that the vast majority of the opposition has also run away, his form at 2, the fact he has proved he has 'trained on', etc, etc I am going to break one of my golden rules and back an 'odds on' today. And when i say back' I mean bet the house.
Just my opinion, but I genuinely think its buying money and the best bet (yes, even at 1/2) I've ever seen.

Good luck to all, and if Frankel gets beat, stop by Waterloo Underground station next week and give me a pound for a cup of soup!
By:
ilikewavingatbuses
When: 30 Apr 11 03:58
has he trained on tho? he beat an 89 rated 25/1 shot by 4 L, surely this just tells us his legs still work!Confused
By:
diktat
When: 30 Apr 11 09:55
i believe he will win too but dont think he should be this short.  The turn of speed is not instant, I just hope TQ takes up up 2 furlongs out and powers on.  If he leaves it late than horse like Fury and Pathfork can take advantage
By:
Viva Pataca
When: 30 Apr 11 10:20
Is the breeding an issue here?

Granted I know little where the bloodstock world is concerned, but the statistic that 10 of the last 10 Guineas winning sires had won over 6f-8f is worrying - Galileo won three Group Ones over 12f and only ever once at a mile or less, his maiden.

His progeny such as Rip Van Winkle, New Approach, Lush Lashes and Gan Amhras all ran well in the Guineas (but none won) before doing better over further later in the season. He's never really had an outstanding miler has he? Bar Rip Van Winkle who for a long time looked a bit tripless.

Of course, these statistics of sorts have to come to an end sometime, but surely the value call is to keep following them until such a time comes that they are eventually broken.
By:
diktat
When: 30 Apr 11 12:18
the other worry about taking a short price is that his most impressive wins were when he went slow in the beginning of the race and then powered away in the final furlong.  The guineeas will be fast from the beginning, will he have the speed in the end?  have watched the Greenham again and he didnt quicken instantly, indeed he was shaken up between the 2 and 1 furlong marker and this is against an 89 rate rival.
By:
TOTGA
When: 30 Apr 11 15:17
Well he's still not technically had to get out from behind a crowd, but then with that pace and stride... who needs to?
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 30 Apr 11 15:46
Hope he goes for the Mile races, QE2, Breeders Cup Mile..Love him over a mile dont think he'll go much futher.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 30 Apr 11 15:52
He ran with the choke out all the way. I'd review that thought or it may cost you.
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 30 Apr 11 16:26
He did and his arsssssssssss nothing near him...nothing will ever be near him
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 30 Apr 11 16:52
Frankel gets RPR of 133, making him highest-rated Guineas winner since service started in 1988.
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 30 Apr 11 17:00
Frankel is 4/6 with Paddy Power to end the season with a higher official rating than Sea The Stars, who was rated 135.
By:
Mayweather
When: 05 May 11 09:35
I told you he couldn't be beat. Essexguy - where are you now huh! I can't hear you.
By:
Anaglogs Daughter
When: 09 May 11 12:01
Japan superstar miler Grand Prix Boss set for a crack at the great Frankel in the St James’s Palace Stakes at Royal Ascot.
By:
Mayweather
When: 10 May 11 11:31
We are really scared of him lol - NOT!
By:
lordnoise
When: 19 May 11 00:43
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