Greyhounds
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ohn Coleman speaks out. The retired former leading Wembley and Walthamstow trainer today represents owners on the Greyhound Board
SOMETIMES silence is golden, but obviously not on this occasion so please accept my apology for lack of communication, albeit i have been working on your behalf during these extremely stressful times.
I have expressed my disappointment to the GBGB that, as the Owners’ representative on the Board, I was not asked to be part of the panel looking for the best way to restart racing and, possibly even more surprising, was that neither was the Trainers’ representative - Peter Harnden - as I thought we were both best placed to have an input into those discussions.
From the notices since published by the GBGB it is obvious that little or no consideration was given to Open Racing at this time and I find that astonishing as this aspect of the sport is what keeps the sport ticking over.
I do not expect major opens to be immediately part of the restart, but I certainly expected them to be under consideration in the same way as graded racing.
Making that observation to the CEO today, the response is that the priority is getting graded racing up and running - as that is what the bookmakers want. Which in itself indicates clearly where the power lies.
If the bookmakers are not interested in Open Racing in the short term, it will most certainly come back to haunt them in the long term as breeders will not continue to invest knowing that they would be selling dogs for less than it cost to rear them and, that in turn, would create a shortage which, over time, would lead to the death knell of greyhound racing.
Promoters have never been so well off, especially those under contract to SIS being paid amounts that they could only have dreamed of and are mostly living in dreamland. They are losing sight of what the future may hold for them when these payments come tumbling down as I am certain they will as they become unsustainable.
We have an industry which is fractured with people pulling in different directions and mostly only concerned about themselves, with absolutely no regard to stabilising the sport’s future.
I have told the GBGB CEO of the importance of treating Open Racing in the same way as graded and have suggested a North and South divide initially to get it kick started whereby all the tracks on the betting industry service should include an agreed number of open races (say two) to accommodate mainly dogs in the hands of Open Race trainers until such time as things hopefully get back to normal.
I can see all the objections on the way:
‘The Bookmakers do not want it’ (they should be flexible at this difficult time).
‘The Promoters cannot afford it’ (who are they kidding?).
‘The travelling distance is a problem’ (are all the graded trainers adjacent to their stadiums?) and all the other excuses to throw a spanner in the works.
It is time for the sport to pull together, forget about your self interests and do something in a way to treat all participants equally and fairly.
Please be aware I am an owner myself with my partner and I share the ownership of seven dogs, so there is no need for anyone to explain to me what the problems are but, if you have any sensible ideas to put forward, I will address them with the Board.
My email is johncoleman1935@gmail.com.
Good luck and stay safe.
Amazing really Owners Rep and Trainers rep , and the GBGB freeze them out
You cannot make it up ..
SOMETIMES silence is golden, but obviously not on this occasion so please accept my apology for lack of communication, albeit i have been working on your behalf during these extremely stressful times.
I have expressed my disappointment to the GBGB that, as the Owners’ representative on the Board, I was not asked to be part of the panel looking for the best way to restart racing and, possibly even more surprising, was that neither was the Trainers’ representative - Peter Harnden - as I thought we were both best placed to have an input into those discussions.
From the notices since published by the GBGB it is obvious that little or no consideration was given to Open Racing at this time and I find that astonishing as this aspect of the sport is what keeps the sport ticking over.
I do not expect major opens to be immediately part of the restart, but I certainly expected them to be under consideration in the same way as graded racing.
Making that observation to the CEO today, the response is that the priority is getting graded racing up and running - as that is what the bookmakers want. Which in itself indicates clearly where the power lies.
If the bookmakers are not interested in Open Racing in the short term, it will most certainly come back to haunt them in the long term as breeders will not continue to invest knowing that they would be selling dogs for less than it cost to rear them and, that in turn, would create a shortage which, over time, would lead to the death knell of greyhound racing.
Promoters have never been so well off, especially those under contract to SIS being paid amounts that they could only have dreamed of and are mostly living in dreamland. They are losing sight of what the future may hold for them when these payments come tumbling down as I am certain they will as they become unsustainable.
We have an industry which is fractured with people pulling in different directions and mostly only concerned about themselves, with absolutely no regard to stabilising the sport’s future.
I have told the GBGB CEO of the importance of treating Open Racing in the same way as graded and have suggested a North and South divide initially to get it kick started whereby all the tracks on the betting industry service should include an agreed number of open races (say two) to accommodate mainly dogs in the hands of Open Race trainers until such time as things hopefully get back to normal.
I can see all the objections on the way:
‘The Bookmakers do not want it’ (they should be flexible at this difficult time).
‘The Promoters cannot afford it’ (who are they kidding?).
‘The travelling distance is a problem’ (are all the graded trainers adjacent to their stadiums?) and all the other excuses to throw a spanner in the works.
It is time for the sport to pull together, forget about your self interests and do something in a way to treat all participants equally and fairly.
Please be aware I am an owner myself with my partner and I share the ownership of seven dogs, so there is no need for anyone to explain to me what the problems are but, if you have any sensible ideas to put forward, I will address them with the Board.
My email is johncoleman1935@gmail.com.
Good luck and stay safe.
Amazing really Owners Rep and Trainers rep , and the GBGB freeze them out
You cannot make it up ..
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How can you not Have the OWNERS REP , and the TRAINERS REP involved in the restart Talks
Totally and Utterly beyond belief ..... WTF is actually going on ?? |
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https://greyhoundbet.racingpost.com//#news-story/story_id=429838
Mr Bird on how it will all pan out , Don't seem too interested in the Open Racers Main objective looks like get the Track/trainer owned Cannon fodder fired round as quick as possible Must keep the books Happy .............. |
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Automatically expected to keep paying the kennel bill
Even though many owners have had it worse than them Nothing from trainer except the bills Feck this .....owners at the bottom of the pile |
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owners have to be stark raving bonkers to run dogs on bags card owners buy the dogs pay the kennel bills for the BOOKIES BENEFIT lol
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Tbh I think the Whole game needs Looking at , we have an opportunity , this Craic of Cannon fodder racing needs stopping,Far too much of it
2 Afternoon and two evening bags plenty ,as for the Insane carry on that will be going at tracks Test the staff FFS and everyone Wears a mask , Virtually impossible to spread the Virus ... Without open racing there is no sport , Owners do not buy Dogs to be running at some rsole time of the day on a bags card ... We need a complete Reshuffle , I would start with getting Rid of the GBGB and looking at a new Governing body ......... That is actually representative of the Sport,Why were the Owners Rep and the Trainers Rep not involved in the restart talks ??? The sports value is or was in entertainment , Firing Banged up dogs round tracks for the benefit of Bookmakers is All Wrong If we lose tracks we lose them, we will not be the only industry to suffer major loss ............ |
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MDM a high percentage of the Dogs on these cards are owned all be it by Proxy, by the Bookmakers
Is that what our sport is all about ?? Things need to change ......... |
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Agree its a fantastic chance for a reshuffle.
This would be my model and I get why unpopular with some. We now assume the bookmakers physical shops are out of the question. Early in the week: 1 morning card 11am 1 afternoon card 2pm 2 early evening cards 6pm 1 late evening card 8 30pm Later in week: 2 morning 11am 2 afternoon 2pm 2 evening cards 6pm 2 late evening cards 830pm And you say why should a trainer be at the track at 11pm? Well the way things are...would you rather there was no liquid there at 11am and you cant back your dog...or 11pm, its late but there is liquid in the market and you can play your dog. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we get rid of the utter dross over 2 bends or atleast half it. |
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With your model how many meetings would each track get every week.
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Sunday nothing late evening so 6 meetings from 10
Monday/Tues/Wed/Thurs moved to 5 cards from 10 Friday 8 cards from 10. Places racing Fri night without the betting the streams if they can generate profit, go for it. Saturday model has to remain the same in terms of racing for bar/restaurant revenue, 16 odd tracks, 20 cards with the doublers. So essentially I want to see 54 meetings a week approx not the approximate 80. A cut by a 1/3rd. The knock on effect of the current situation might damage to approx a 1/5th anyway? |
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As for the tracks the 1st ones to be effected are those with excessive morning slots.
14 of the cut 26 are coming from there with that model. Or alternatively there is 21 tracks, start by trimming those with more than 3 meets down a card, your nearly at 54. |
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Ive read that half a dozen times. Ive not got a clue what you are talking about.
How many meetings will, lets say Romford have. Then Crayford. |
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We need to go back to what it was like in the past with tracks having 2 meetings a week with 8 race cards. Distances to be varied with more distance races for graded dogs as well as the opens. That might just give the sport a chance of survival for the future.
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2 meetings a week with 8 races, thats 96 dogs. What a disaster that would be.
Paul Young has probably 200 dogs. How many of his dogs would get a run every week. Tracks would all close if they follow your model. Think about what you are proposing, its nonsense. |
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2 meetings a week with 8 races was the norm when I first went greyhound racing and the ridiculous saturation that we see now will kill the game stone dead in a year or two. There is simply too much racing in this country and these 14 race meetings consisting of nothing more than 2 and 4 bend races is a recipe for disaster.
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So you want dogs to have one run every month then. If that. No good worrying about what happened years ago.
Some tracks have 500 dogs, what they going to do with all them. Owners wont want to pay for dogs that hardly get a run. Your way will kill the game off quicker. |
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Well I have put forward a suggestion for the future which you consider nonsense but what would you suggest for the survival of the sport?
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Sorry i was unclear, you are both correct.
There is basically no option other than to give every dog of the 500 a run until the end of their career, its only "fair" imo. To me they need to be letting people knowing going forward that will gradually purposefully drop to less dogs so we get less meetings. Make it clear that in 2 years time d3 and d4 along with a11 a10 a9 a8 etc wont exist. The welfare side would have to be spot with dogs that fall into this category, but its doable if the sport stops pandering to the bookies going forward. Clacton if your an owner or trainer...does it really make too much difference if you have 5 dogs that run for £200 prize money or 10 that run for £100? |
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I did not say one run per month as I believe there are simply too many dogs involved at the present time and there is a need to cut back on the numbers. If that is what you prefer then I'm afraid you will soon be disappointed but I will wait for your suggestion.
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divide 500 by 96.
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I know what you are saying about the present situatiion but I am saying that things need to change.
So I assume you have no alternative to what is happening now? |
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Its now that matters. Would you like to pay £60 a week and get one run a month. Work it out.
Imagine Romford having all open races on Friday. The graders get one meeting. You are just going to stop people buying dogs. Thats disaster |
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Yes I know you think it is a disaster yet you refuse to offer any suggestion yourself.
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How long have you been going Greyhound Racing?
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It cant change overnight. It can only stay as it is.
It may not be right but its what it is. Tell me would you pay £60 a week and get one run a month. The sport needs more owners not less. The first Derby I saw was Ballylanigan Tanist in 1951. How about you. I dont live in the past like you are trying to do. |
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Well clacton you have been longer than me and probably longer than anyone else on the forum.
I really am amazed that you think the present situation should stay as it is. The game is dying a death and it's only a matter of time before it all virtually disappears and we will end up with just a couple of provincial tracks being run like flapping tracks. My first Derby was Pigalle Wonder by the way. |
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I was of really missing the game at the beginning of this lockdown.. however gradually I have started watching and dabbling in a few races in Australia after much watching and looking at their sites. What an eye opener.. proper prize money.. safe open galloping tracks a plenty... inside hare which can’t be jibbed at bends like over here. All info regarding sectionals and times instantly available as they cross the line and decent money in the markets.
It shows our game over here for what it is.. poorly run by the GBGB, far too many trainer/owned dogs, racing put on for bookmakers only ( which will mean all the 2 bend racing and sprint h’caps are here to stay) along with them being able to take the bowser round whenever they like. This cannot be sustained.. move to a tote system and take control back of the product. Anyone who wants to get on can have what they like on via the exchanges. All of those trying to win a few peanuts early mornings by taking a wrong price, they can find another vocation. |
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I didnt say it should stay as it is. But it wont change. The dogs are there ready to race. Do you want to kill half of them.
If the bookmakers pull the plug the sport is fooked. They are the ones who put the money in. The less meetings, the less money they put in. Thats not how it should be but thats what we got. |
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People have been saying the sport is finished for as long as I can remember. Well its still here with thousands of dogs.
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Obviously it can't change overnight but change it must if the sport is to have any chance of survival. You are right about the bookmakers but they are not going to escape the Coronavirus Crisis unscathed and will be looking for cuts themselves. Greyhound racing cannot just rely on bookmakers to secure it's future and has to have a plan of it's own.
Tne next few years are crucial and standing still is not an option we have to change and begin a gradual process of reducing these 14 race cards of endless 2 and 4 bend monotonous dross that is currently being served up. |
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Clacton
I put you at over 80 and I respect my elders sparrow you have been around longer than me not by much understand gents the game will never be like it was no matter who has the input sparrow your obvious dislike of 2 bend races is not lost on the likes of me also your desire to see more staying races Clacton as a person with a view I respect I make you 80% right unfortunately I know I should of left this sinking ship years back but even now I am still on board the only salvation for this game is the gambling perspective do the bookies worry about saturation do they feck |
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To be honest clacton I don't know how anyone who remembers the 50s,60s and 70s can even tolerate what is happening now. I used to go racing 3 and 4 days a week when I lived in London but to go racing now I find almost boring.
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Wedge You put me at over 80 and 80% right. Suppose thats not too bad. I dont know how you put me at over 80 but you got it right.
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Its not the same as years ago but things change. In them days after the war there were thousands at White City every meeting.
They didnt have to rely on bookmakers to finance the sport. Im not happy with the way its gone but it wont change. |
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How many of these thousands of dogs are trainer/kennel/track owned now? Even as late as the 90's I would think hardly any kennel dogs weren't outside owned. Now, so many stadiums closed. Attendance and atmosphere totally changed. 3 or 4 books if you're lucky. Tote with fek all in it. Is it any wonder? Other than Towcester, very doubtful, almost definite that we will never have any new stadiums opening and even more of the reverse. Lets face it, the whole show is pretty much bookie run now and nowt is gonna change that. If and when they pull the plug, turn the lights off.
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This needs to be taken as an Opportunity , To Cut back on racing and Not return to the total nonsense racing we had , We are without doubt going to lose a percentage of Dogs following this Crisis , We need to Focus on Quality not Quantity Get those who can back trialing ASAP, anything Else to Follow , GBGB have been squandering the Fund for years and their Main interest is the fund coming in , and Keeping the Books happy so it continues ... We need a new leadership , Tracks should be streaming their own Feeds with advertising , and a small charge to View , Tow coverage
was Brilliant , with no fee ... Any books wanting to take the Feed pay a percentage to each track from bets Struck , We need to concentrate on the Product that we want for Greyhound racing not the Product that is being provided to the Books , Its scandalous what has been going on Over the past couple of years , Sparrow spot on far too many race meetings ... It has Ended up that we need Bookmakers to Continue racing , it is all Wrong .............. |
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Be van loads arriving at RGT centers
A very sad state of Affairs H |
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Reform would be great case, but these books ain't gonna allow it. What they had is what they want and plenty of it. All or nothing imo.
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The PROBLEM has been our Leaders , we have ended up with Shyte because of the GBGB they run the show have had years to try to sort something
They came up with the Cannon Fodder bags product ....... |
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JC is spot on No Open racing the Sport goes under , Big hitters paying plenty for Dogs Keeps the Breeding industry Afloat , they cant all be derby winners we know this . but speculation has always driven the sport ...
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