Which were/are your top six favourite bookies at the cherries?

Les Nicholls was a good bettor,I did a lot of business with him over the years,would always lay to take out £1200-1500...they were indeed a good tight fit firm,his brother bet at Wimbledon(Arthur...he used to buy betting shops for Mecca....most had him down as miserable but he was ok)
The worst loser was John Burrows,even when he had Jackie Dyer on the firm who was Obies brother...add in Mick Cornwall and a guy called Phil as partners and some days you could have what you liked on with them...Jack was an old time dog man and as tough as old boots...
My old man was very friendly with John Whites brother and still keeps in touch with his son....who bet for Ladbrokes at Watford dogs and then on the course...
A few years back there was a tv programme outing Ladbrokes on course tactics,Greg **** was the front man but another guy was behind it...anyway the programme didnt show Harry in a good light,however unpredictable as ever when Cyril Stein saw it he gave him a rise....the programme follwed a bet being struck in St Johns Wood through to Ladbrokes head office and then down to the course....the problem was the makers **** the show themselves and used bookies in the silver ring who would have had no part in either sp's or first shows...

Ah cheers Mr.E. Got it now, not far from the Brixton Academy then. I sincerely hope the operation went well for Mrs.E and she is fighting fit again as soon as posible, give her my best wishes for me mate.

"celticgr"..........I never realised that Harry was related to John White....you live & learn.
I dont think that I ever saw Jack Dyer without a **** in his mouth.

Best wishes to you all for the New Year.

Correct mdm i wonder if his brother Bill is still about

Mr Memory

regarding Harry boy, i remember when he went to the races up north about twenty years ago, the last i heard he was running an exchange shop in Edinburgh,do you know if he still is?

i am not a dog man but i love to read your articles about the betting rings of yesterday.

Old Harry White had a boy called Harry who worked for Ladbrokes.Old Johnny White had a boy called John who is still betting now.The Harry I mentioned was the father,it must be at least forty years ago he died.

Funeral details for Jimmy Green are
service at
St Aidans Church
Finch Lane
Little Chalfont
Bucks
HP7 9NE
Service starts at 11.30 am...there is a Metropolitan Line Tube station close by...Chalfont and Latimer

Afterwards the family would like to see as many people as possible at
Stoke Park
Stoke Park
Park Road
Stoke Poges
Buckinghamshire
Great Britain
SL2 4PG

No doubt there will be plenty cups of tea and some booze
The family wish to pass on thanks for all of the genuine messages they have received from all over the world via either the forum and calls and texts...it has been very moving...especially in racing terms the tribute in todays Racing Post..
I know he always tried to do the right thing and stick to his principals.

Jimmy Green funeral date is
Friday 25th February

Just reading this thread again, so sad to think Mr.Memory and whitmarsh no longer post. They were without doubt the forum sages.

Just read it again.. Great read

Those that were fun to play with, rather than just taking huge bets were HYman at Rommers, the rows between Rafe, Harry and I cant remember the old fella with the tache...brilliant; Tony Byerley, a legend; Danny of Bunny, always time for a chat always a gent, paid out without a hitch; Barry Dennis, whatever you think of him was great fun with his own view.

I also got on very well with Phil and Joe Magnus at Rommers, another friendly firm who listened, took and paid out.

Generally I found if you were fair with them, they were fair with you.

THE WALMSLEY BROS BELLE VIEW WOULD TAKE ANY BET OFF ME

Slippy Blue 24 Jul 10 21:19
T&F were great bookies Southwark Star, been mentioned on here before, they got mangled by the Irish mob.

It was actually the Star Racing gayer Ben who dropped 60 large to the Irish mob.

T&F were done in at the GGs, where they took on the likes of Tabor/JP etc.
Mark was a proper gent & always was gracious in defeat. He once gave me a lift back to the stow from Newmarket.

ps forgot to mention the time when Star Racing's Ben lost the plot on here after doing in a load of wine. A really embarrassing post, which he later had removed. I'm sure he loves being reminded of that

ah yes, Ben...that was fun at The Stow...Star vs T&F...great days

Yes Mark was a decent bloke, I used to see him at the tracks regularly. I was meaning the likes of Tabor Stow_judge that turned over T&F.

Oh for the heady days of Walthamstow, a big night there was where the sport came to life. When they closed it pretty much finished my interest in ever being an owner again. They were queuing up an hour before racing if not longer to bag a decent plot for the night. So sad.

Stow Judge.. by the Irish Mob.. they meant Tabor Mcmanus Magnier & Co.and the Horse Business.

Sorry you stated that in your Post

was told football bets were tfs downfall owed a fortune from lay off that didnt pay

I don't think Tabor or JP ever went to the Stow.
The Irish mob at the stow was the name given to the 2 puter oners who placed bets for an Irish chap, whose name I believe was Declan.

Cracking thread, for my 2 bobs worth the tall elderley chap at oxford jack cowan was a terrificly strong bookie, you couldnt shut him up with a skinny one especially if it was drawn in the middle.

I did a fair  bit of clerking for the brothers at wembley in the late nineties and when jenkins turned up on the power joint there was always plenty of action.

It literally seems a lifetime ago, sadly.

your right about jack cowan at oxford one night harry called a ,big bet over  to jack, jack said you can have what you want on as long as you put it in the bag

I could not stand tony morris

ronnie bolton a true gent

used to be shorter on the fav

Must have been something personal then mad dog, I nor my Dad never once had a problem with him for over 40 years between us.

Lambert at the Stow worthy of a mention surely

les ray took a bet around the cheap side at the stow

slippy blue you must have been a serial loser with him

An extremely predictable response really by you and a bit unnecessary, he and JH both used to ask me to mark their cards.
Anyway, not that important in the greater scheme of things.

he was the other bookie I could not stand john Humphreys mind you that marathon they had  at catford he had reason not to like me

I found most of the bookies at Don and Catford were horrendous. No names but the 'without' at Don was a right shark

Sam and Alec the best by a country mile

john power end of

Saw John Power at both Hackney and Wembley...he had it all tbf...brutally strong, opinionated and put on a terrific show.....Morris at Wimbledon...the gentleman bookmaker, not everyones cup of tea, but an impressive businessman who loved the game. As Roo says, talking about these times seems almost made up these days, cannot believe some of the sums that used to change hands without anyone batting an eyelid really...

isn't that the difference? no point having an opinion and shouting it if 3 judges want 2000-1000 and the other scampi punters want 50p on the others

BF killed it

Stan Hamer

Mr Moustache = Philly Marsh..... Team Hyman!!!

Steve Ketteley at romford

'you win when you lose when you bet without the favourite'

silly koont he was

Not many mentions for Gary Wiltshire which is surprising.

Ray Rains at Romford, he always took a bet. Anyone remember him?

Slippy,

I remember Ray Rains.

Pretty sure, but not totally certain, that he was betting on the rails at the 1986 Newmarket July meeting. It had been a bad meeting for punters and on the last race on the last day (then a Thursday) word had got out for the favourite - an unraced horse in what was a maiden. I went to have £200 on at 6/4 or thereabouts with Rains but he had run out of tickets. However, he recognised me from the dogs and put the bet down to 'leather' - because I was wearing a leather jacket.

Horse lost but imagine that today - a track bookie running out of tickets!! (not that they use the same type of tickets anymore).

I am also pretty sure that I have got a book about how to win at greyhound racing which has a cover photo of a dog running at Hackney but in the foregound is just enough of the Ray Rains joint to see his name.

Nice story The Knight, running out of tickets indeed! I thought he stood at Hackney as well but wasn't sure, I always bet with John Power. Plenty of on course bookies on the horse racing forum, they pretty much all say the game is in a bad way for them with the high exes and turnover down. What's the name of that book by the way? I'll have a look out for it.

Ray Rains, Alan Henderson the grumpy Scottish one, Hyman, Steve Simmons and there was one more. I think Dave something stood there, an ex-trainer, fantastic laugh.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Win-Greyhound-Racing-Edwards-Clarke/dp/0948353643/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1

Slippy,

Type the above into your browser and you will go to a picture of the book...

Christ, how I miss those days.

Old Cheapside Romford....
Hyman, Barton, Henderson, Dennis, Rains.....
Simmons replaced Dennis when he chinned The Chef!!!
Ray Rains (Chantal) was a right miserable git....
You to always moan if we backed a winner with him... I swore at him
once for knocking me back a bet.... He brought up the fact that he laid a winner
to me (£300/£200) about a month previous..... No one likes to lose but he rivalled Roger, Bigtime!!!!
Dave the ex trainer currently helps out Steve Simmons....
He's the best judge in the country, never backs a loser, and has an opinion on every race...
They should get him on RPTV... Great Personality and guaranteed to go through the card at both meetings!!!

Anyone remember jim from Shaw a belle vue bookmaker many years ago,great bloke.with his tic tac man Ray.

I must know you MB

DML, In the good old Cheapside Days, I was one of a mob of upto 15ish regulars that were all ages
and very loud..... Scarface Matty, Slow Count Colin, Crayford Charlie (Grant), Fat Girdy, Piggott, Custard,
Ginger Micky, **** Ian, Boring Brian, Little Fat Tony, Black Tony, Dave & Reggie, Moggy, Jeff the Canary,
Forecast King Paul... Sorry if I forgot anyone!!!
Lord Baron beating Three Cheers, Greenfield Crack v Own Magic and Pantile beating all the Star Hurdlers....
Kilbarry Six.... Romfords Greatest ever dog!!! (My first one)...

I forgot Curly John from my list....

I remember when I started going to Yarmouth in the early seventies there was  8 books . From memory they were 
Tommy Goulding
Ted Waite
John  Gallant
Dave Richards
Jack Cook
Albert Eagle
Dougie Toft
Dougie pye.

Seem to Remember John Gallant was the leading layer,a proper old school bookmaker from Norwich.
Dougie Toft was  always happy to take a decent bet.

MB, did you know Lal and John?

not one mention from bookies at Elland Road Leeds stadium

Colin Webster
Leslie Steele
Bob Kett
Bill Provan

the first two were probably the biggest layers of there day at any track.

Huggy,

Do you know if that was the same Leslie Steel who was / went on to be the Billy Hills horse racing course rep?

Is he still alive, do you know?

As I am aware Leslie Steele had no association with Billy Hills. If we are talking about the same person he walked with a bad limp and was always in the White house pub in Oakwood Leeds after his jaunts at northern horse race meetings.

I knew Colin Webster from the horse tracks, I've never been to Leeds in my life Huggy dog track or otherwise! He was a very good bookmaker, real old school.

slippy he was a big pal of jack ramsden the fearless gambler and owner of many good horses aswell as being posh birds(EMMA) father

the knight

I think you are thinking of Leslie Spencer

Huggy

the reason Leslie had a limp was due to a nasty car accident, he was long odds on not to make it through!

he was an excellent bookmaker but a right miserable so and so when he was losing.

p.s. re an old thread were kev and gus the lads I referred to?

Ronnie

Apparently not

Thanks Huggy. You are correct...my memory is starting to go!!

Lal & John?? Can't place them DML??

Anyone care to update us on this Midlands collection:

Solly Wernick (cracking looking daughter)

Hall Green regulars:

Nick Rose
Wells
Saunders
Ian Foster

And Micky Fletcher the asparagus kid?

Someone on the horse racing forum the other day said he saw The Asparagus Kid at Cheltenham this year.

Okay Slippy Blue, looks like one of natures fighters. Never beaten?

Eddie Rabbit I remember Jim from Shaw thought he was a miserable sod.He used to bet cheap ring  next to Talbot and near the twins

ttt

A good thread but the dates of posting seem a bit mixed up.

Corrected now I think.

Just stumbled onto this thread, by accident.

Understandably punters /bookies bemoaning 10 years ago the state of the game compared to yesteryear so heaven only knows what they would say now.

Used to attend London Tracks and others nearby and they were good days. :)

Never took to Wimbledon , always seemed dark and dreary with little atmosphere as opposed to Catford high up on that main terrace , which along with Hove, had the best view and the banter there was great between THe Punters and also between Punters and The Bookies on that side. It seemed that most punters played there although outsiders went to The Main Ring through habit and maybe wanting a thick bet with JH or David Richardson or the others. You could always get on Both sides as everyone knew Punters would, rightly, walk with their money.

The place was full of characters from The Judges to Rossi and his crew. The Greek Guys and THe Turks. THe Gasman and Co-hort. The Sittingbourne crew would be there and Peanuts and his mob. Enjoyed watching them all.

Always got on with the Books there too who all played the game like Tony Bryerly , Peter Martinelli, The Hoopers, Kim Johnson. and even 17 years after it closed I still here people rueing its closure along with all the other great tracks gone in London like White City/Wembley/Hackney/Harringay and THe Stow...

Memory Lane is a good place to go sometimes.

Be Lucky :)

Hoping Slippy Blue is ok, not seen him post for a while.

Same Glasgow , hadnt posted on what was Chit Chat for months either ,Would usually Attribute to him off sunning himself ,but that could not have
been the case , Hopefully just taking a break , top fella .

Some great names from the past  on this thread  ..

Mr Memory and Whitmarsh were brilliant .

first time i have seen this thread
Iris of mayfair
Iris of mayfair01 Aug 10 18:24Joined: 30 Jul 07 | Topic/replies: 673 | Blogger: Iris of mayfair's blog
Chas Miller
Steve Joel

Both truly love the game
yes and without betfair would not take a coin

Most of the posts would have been regarding Pre Betfair Wedge

Tony morris when he had the hump

Fecking hilarious

only john poulter at hove had the balls to lay a bet even put banks to shame when he pitched up as for charlie any lump he did take normally ended up in poulters satchel as for steve well i like a laugh and as he reads this i wont slight him
will mention one who never shirked a bet and that was terry from harrison racing but he had no pitch

pleasing to know stay strong and enjoy your days best regards

wish you well slippy iv also got a little bit of liver trouble caused by the tablets iv been on for years for rheumatoid arthritus got to go to barnet hospital friday

Slippy!!!! I am so pleased mate, have tried contacting you, was so worried, wishing you all the best mate.

G luck Slippy mate  , we  missed u  . Sounds like u have been through WW3 , Keep safe mate

Chit chat got Shut down Slip just incase u are wondering what happened ,Few of them are posting on Politics, but its not the same Loads of posters barred  or not bothering ..

Pleased you have come through that Slippy. Welcome back.

Sounds like there wasn’t room up there
For palace fan !! Just yet
Well done for coming back
Enjoy life to the max slippy
Nice one

Good to see you back slippy

Slippy
stay safe
regards
Ronnie.

you must have been owed money slippy and refused to go.......all the best on your road to recovery.....

All the very best with your recovery slippy.

All the best slippy glad to here your on the mend, best wishes from the sunny end Of the A3 your fav road .

Good ol Days.

Sam and Alec at Catford, like Waldorf and Stadler

Gordon  Hutchinson at Southend and the Stow.Danny Quastell at New Cross

john power and the old bloke at oxford told harry you can have what you like on but put it in the bag first lol

David Richardson from Catford days still stands at Plumpton and Brighton.
Catford closed in 2003 and he looks well and hasn't changed a bit. I usually say hi and he remembers me as well.

SlippyBlue • July 31, 2013 9:27 PM BST
An extremely predictable response really by you and a bit unnecessary, he and JH both used to ask me to mark their cards.
Anyway, not that important in the greater scheme of things.

I can't speak for JH but Les Ray definitely didn't ask you to mark his card

Hi all,
Bit of a long shot, but I’m trying to find out more about my grandad’s greyhound days.

His name was Frank Payne and he trained greyhounds in London, probably late 60s through the 80s. Family stories he was involved with the TV Trophy / TV Gold Cup, and was generally a big character around the tracks. Also used to have my dad Dave Payne assisting him.

He passed away before I was born, so I only know the stories — would love to hear if anyone here remembers him, raced against him, or has any info at all.

Thanks in advance.

I have posted this 'story' previously when John Jenkins passed away but I thought I'd just post it again as it's very apt to this thread and for me partly sums up the difference of between 'then' and 'now' - It was worth the entrance fee at Walthamstow just to watch John and his brother 'perform'. Brought real character to the ring and his sense of humour although dry was really funny.

I remember (same of the fine detail might be blurred) on one occasion the well fancied favourite was chalked up at 2/1 with all the bookies, as always the punters were all waiting in the hope someone would go 9/4, all of a sudden all the other bookies wiped it off and John was the only one left with a price up, it seemed that everyone was running down to John to try and get on, with that he wiped it off as well but shouted 'don't push you're all on', there must have been 20 or more of us queuing up, some, like me, with a £20 note, others with bundles of hundreds, as promised we all got on at 2/1. By now the other bookies had chalked up 7/4 or even 13/8 and were taking bets at pace. By the time the last customer of John got on the hare running bell rang and of course John then chalked up and shouted out I'll lay 9/4! Pure class.

Funny, I can't remember if the dog even won but I can remember John Jenkins and how he helped make a night at the dogs entertaining, oh how we miss those days.

Hi All
Similar to a post above, I am also trying to find out some more about my grandad's bookie days - Ray Rains
Would love to hear some stories/comments....warts and all!

brainsy,,,just bseen this thread. I can give you a little story about Ray Raines, but not from the dogs.

In the mid 1980's he stood on the rails at some Southern horse racing tracks. I cannot recall if it was in his own name or repping for someone else. But on the last day of the Newmarket July meeting in 1986 an unraced horse was widely tipped in a maiden.

It was nearing the end of the card and I wanted £200 cash on it. The betting action was thick and fast for the race and I went to Raines asking for £350 to £200 on the 7/4 shot. He took it and shouted to the clerk 'put it down to leather' before saying to me 'sorry fellas, out of tickets, but you know I am OK for it on the name'. (I had a leather jacket on so that was where he got 'leather' from.)

I was only 26 at the time but already a very experienced racecourse punter and so I knew there would be no issue about payment if it copped.

Sadly for me, the horse was well beaten so I trooped home well down on the day.

The following week I was at Hackney Dogs and talking to a regular there. I told him how busy Newmarket had been and about Raines running out of tickets. The regular had already heard about that and told me that the Raines joint had won, wait for it, £37,000 on that one race such was the volume of business. £37k is around £75-£80k now (I think). 

I never knew how true that was but when I saw Raines refuse a bloke £250 to £40 on the fractions at Sandown a week later I did wonder if the £37K story was legit!! Great, great days though.

Does anyone remember the bookie on the cheap side at White City who was at the very end (left). His board said "Bubbles Be Brave"; I think his name was Sharpe. He would really lay a big one.

Jenkins brothers/ John Power by a street