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alby parsons was the first book outside that time bet in the name of sammy davies he was tic tac for john white still alive
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"whitmarsh"............I have heard the name mentioned, but cannot place him.
Do you remember Woolfrey...I was told that his "tank" comprised two ten bob notes & a couple of quid in silver. He used to bet in the same line as Alper & Norris.
Do you remember Woolfrey...I was told that his "tank" comprised two ten bob notes & a couple of quid in silver. He used to bet in the same line as Alper & Norris.
Mr.Memory,Its so long since I backed a winner it wouldnt matter how old I was.87 next week by the way.Im chalking my cue up for the hundred break.
Southwark, Exactly right.I remember that Mark on the bag for Steve Griffin.He opened a night club in Brighton and that was the start of his undoing.At the end Gary Newton was the clerk ,Ronnie Witts the tic tac and Barry Palmer was on the firm.My great pal,Sonny,was the tic tac inside for him.
Southwark, Exactly right.I remember that Mark on the bag for Steve Griffin.He opened a night club in Brighton and that was the start of his undoing.At the end Gary Newton was the clerk ,Ronnie Witts the tic tac and Barry Palmer was on the firm.My great pal,Sonny,was the tic tac inside for him.
"hovekermit".........Jimmy Beer used to go on a bit at times. Georgie Brown was close to the bunch that stood with John Coleman when he trained at Wembley.
think jimmy back a 33/1 winner at the stow once people though he was a good judge i never did when one got beat you could hear him moaning a mile away
Mr Whitmarsh i think Chuffer was on the firm,top grade Tic Tac for Steve Griffen. Skinny Ron also worked Pat Shipper at Slough.
im talking about jimmy beards sorry if iv got mixed up
We where all lucky if we went to White City, these days are so precious.
Yes I remember Woolfrey.I believe his real name was Ruby Markow.The Alper firm was so called because Ruby Huntman had a partner for some time called Henry Alper who owned the great three time Champion Hurdle winner Persian War in the West Ham colours.Martin ,Rubys son,owned Hatchetts club in Park Lane.Ruby had a brother ,Benny,who was a top boxing trainer and manager,who amongst others guided the career of Jimmy Davies,aBritish Champion.Jimmy later worked as a porter in Spitalfields market and became a great faith healer with sick people coming from all over England to have his hands laid upon them.Ive seen him do faith healing in the early hours of the morning in the middle of the market.
Johnny Mack,Jimmy Crockett and Rocky worked on the firm at Harringay and White City.A fellow called Alf,who worked in a brewery by day was on the bag I never heard him speak.
Johnny Mack,Jimmy Crockett and Rocky worked on the firm at Harringay and White City.A fellow called Alf,who worked in a brewery by day was on the bag I never heard him speak.
"whitmarsh"....................I would never go to Sandown (or other tracks) on a Saturday after the drunks & football supporters came along. I used to give my members badge to "Rocky" on the Friday & he would let me have it back the next time we met up.
Southwark,Yes Chuffer Allen was the tic tac for Griffin at one time.Chuffer was a massive gambler at one time.I was at Epsom in1947 Ithink it was when he had backed the favourite,Tudor Minstrel,to win twenty grand long odds.The day of the Derby it was a very short favourite having won the 2000gns but Chuffer kept putting on alas Tudor Minstrel didnt stay.He was on top for old Whitenob at the time .Johhny Mack took that firm over years later.Thinking about it Chuffer could have bought a row of houses in those days what he had on Tudor Minstrel.About that time he had a vase on the side board where he lived stuffed full of white fivers.I still get a Christmas card from his wife although she has moved to Laindon in Essex.
Mr.Memory,As well as a lot of other old freinds,I met Rocky at the whippet racing at Harlow the other sunday.I remember him when he had black curly hair.You had a good freind there a charming fellow.
Mr.Memory,Benny Simmonds must have been a big age.Would I be right in saying Alfie Murrell used to be on the bag for him?Alfie clerked for John Banks.
Did Alfie bet for a firm called Charlie Meades at the races?
Alfie was the clerk at Wembley and Billy Dent was the Tic Tac for Benny.
Southwark,Yes Alfie did bet for Charlie Meades.Charlie had silver ring pitches but when they built the new stand at Sandown,in about 71 I think,he ended up with a blinder of a pitch in the front line rihgt in front of where the people come out.They intergrated the seniority of the siver ring and Tatts bookies and it come right up for some people.He nearly always had a guvnor in the book.
Another interesting, recollective thread which I must have missed originally during my Betfair-less travelling. A fascinating insight about some of the legends I had heard about, and one or two that I had met. A shame that stories about these people will pass by without going on official record, a historian could use 2 or 3 of the people on ths site for an illuminating account of the golden age of dog and horse racing. I suppose the potential readership though, could be quite limited.
I am not as old as the 2 main contributors here, but one of the reasons for going to the races was the company, the atmosphere, the personalities both in the crowd and workmen, and the banter between that was often forthcoming. The demise of tracks along with the ever changing "times and progress" of our world and ways inevitably means all of that is fewer and further between, albeit non-existent in places. Greyhound racing unfortunately will never recover from the loss, it has to try and move forward in a different way now, and I really hope it is successful in that way, I would like to visit a new Reading (3rd) if it ever comes about.
Like you Mr Memory, I gave up Saturdays a long time ago, I had a job then that afforded regular midweek attendance! Unfortunately at the moment, and until I can retire...not too far away, I am mostly limited to week-ends, so TV when available is the inadequate substitute.
I am not as old as the 2 main contributors here, but one of the reasons for going to the races was the company, the atmosphere, the personalities both in the crowd and workmen, and the banter between that was often forthcoming. The demise of tracks along with the ever changing "times and progress" of our world and ways inevitably means all of that is fewer and further between, albeit non-existent in places. Greyhound racing unfortunately will never recover from the loss, it has to try and move forward in a different way now, and I really hope it is successful in that way, I would like to visit a new Reading (3rd) if it ever comes about.
Like you Mr Memory, I gave up Saturdays a long time ago, I had a job then that afforded regular midweek attendance! Unfortunately at the moment, and until I can retire...not too far away, I am mostly limited to week-ends, so TV when available is the inadequate substitute.
expat
Super post, well put.
I am 49 and used to love the dogs, spending two years as a professional dog punter in the early 90's. The death of Walthamstow, plus the on-course betting %'s, have seen me finsh with the game now though.
I work it IT but also write professionally and am thinking of doing a book on the Dogs in the manner you suggest. I've have three books published but would self-publish this one using the various online 'print on demand' services in the US.
Readership would be limited and it would be a gamble whether it made any cash but taking a gamble seems fitting for a book about the golden age of the dogs!
Anyway, I still have a few details to work out but if anyone on here would be interested in contributing their memories please say so and I will work out a way to get in touch if I go ahead.
Super post, well put.
I am 49 and used to love the dogs, spending two years as a professional dog punter in the early 90's. The death of Walthamstow, plus the on-course betting %'s, have seen me finsh with the game now though.
I work it IT but also write professionally and am thinking of doing a book on the Dogs in the manner you suggest. I've have three books published but would self-publish this one using the various online 'print on demand' services in the US.
Readership would be limited and it would be a gamble whether it made any cash but taking a gamble seems fitting for a book about the golden age of the dogs!
Anyway, I still have a few details to work out but if anyone on here would be interested in contributing their memories please say so and I will work out a way to get in touch if I go ahead.
The Knight. The one type of item I think is missing, is photographs that have captured these characters/personalitiies during their working lives. The majority had the most photogenic qualities, they possessed individuality, they had to in order to survive, they were not born from the "conveyor belt". I wish I had taken photos from these times, I am 61, and have had less than 1% of the racetrack experiences of the likes of Whitmarsh and Mr Memory, who are I believe the two main protagonists here. If only digital cameras had been around earlier to catch people like Groucho with his bucket and chalk, the imperious tic-tac Joe on his stand rising above the terraces at Slough. The persiflage between the bookmaking outfits standing at the tracks. All those people described by the aforementioned could be bring a book to life, I believe it would be necessary for any work of this sort to succeed.
There is a lot out there, you only have to re-read the ressurected "New Cross" thread with its many entries, which appears lower down the forum at the moment.
The matter is there, but whether it can be collated and illustrated is another matter, but it will remain indelibly etched on the memories of those that experienced it.
There is a lot out there, you only have to re-read the ressurected "New Cross" thread with its many entries, which appears lower down the forum at the moment.
The matter is there, but whether it can be collated and illustrated is another matter, but it will remain indelibly etched on the memories of those that experienced it.
Expat.. I think you are spot on with your remarks on the photographs.. sometime ago in the racing post, I think it was Phil Donaldson wrote an article on the bygone days of greyhound racing, and he printed some lovely old photos of the old stadiums, apparently someone as lots of these old photos and was thinking of putting them in a book.
Unfortunately, nearly any non-fiction book today has to have photos because of the short attention span of the general public, although in this case it would be essential.
Tracking down photos would take work but far from impossible.
I had the original idea to write a book about Mick the Miller and did some initial research at the GRA in Camden Town where they hold a lot of memorobila about the dog - the last owner having passed a lot of stuff to them when they got older.
From that research there was plenty of leads where to go for more pictures. (Didn't do the book in the end and someone else did a year later).
For 'Gone are the Dogs' (provisional title) I have a pretty good idea how photos could be assembled.
But the stumbling block is whether the cost of doing it all would be a worthwhile gamble (IE risk against reward)....
Tracking down photos would take work but far from impossible.
I had the original idea to write a book about Mick the Miller and did some initial research at the GRA in Camden Town where they hold a lot of memorobila about the dog - the last owner having passed a lot of stuff to them when they got older.
From that research there was plenty of leads where to go for more pictures. (Didn't do the book in the end and someone else did a year later).
For 'Gone are the Dogs' (provisional title) I have a pretty good idea how photos could be assembled.
But the stumbling block is whether the cost of doing it all would be a worthwhile gamble (IE risk against reward)....
off track was reading somewhere the first track was at the welsh harp not far from hendon
benny simmons son joe runs an estate agency business in slough and has done for years, he is very good friends with the brothers dougie and brian who recently made a book at reading until its demise..
this might be a good read.
http://www.thebwra.co.uk/links.htm
http://www.thebwra.co.uk/links.htm
BBC2,Correct there was a track at the Welsh Harp,I dont know if it was the first.About that time the dogs at Perry Vale(Sydenham)were going whish I wrote about in the New Cross thread.At this time Temple Mills was racing on land as you went from Hackney Marshestowards Stratford.Duggie Tylers father used to go there and Duggie was always there.
Hendon was owned by Lol Clancey,a short man with long arms and big ears,we used to call him P.G.Tips.His real name was Nossle.He was a big punter at the races as were his two sons,Sid and Charlie.After they sold Hendon Sid went to live in Florida,I was told Charlie was down Southend way ,he was seen in the club playing cards were Don Smith,the old Walthamstow judge,was houseman.
Hendon was owned by Lol Clancey,a short man with long arms and big ears,we used to call him P.G.Tips.His real name was Nossle.He was a big punter at the races as were his two sons,Sid and Charlie.After they sold Hendon Sid went to live in Florida,I was told Charlie was down Southend way ,he was seen in the club playing cards were Don Smith,the old Walthamstow judge,was houseman.
Whitmarsh. My father owned dogs that ran at Temple Mills was it a flapping track as I believe he trained them himself also was it known as Stratford Stadium.
A programme was on sale earlier this year on Ebay as I bid for it myself but was unsuccessful.
A programme was on sale earlier this year on Ebay as I bid for it myself but was unsuccessful.
Sparrow,Temple Mills wasnt under rules and a man would turn up with his dog and get it graded on the spot.The runners were chalked up on the bookies boards race by race.I never knew it as Stratford stadium but I dont know for sure.
Whitmarsh. Thanks for that although I can't think of any other track that would be known as Stratford Stadium.
Did you by any chance know of an on course bookie called Johnny Hogan he was from South London I think as my father sometimes clerked for him. I believe he was one of a few brothers in the game in the 1950s.
Did you by any chance know of an on course bookie called Johnny Hogan he was from South London I think as my father sometimes clerked for him. I believe he was one of a few brothers in the game in the 1950s.
Mr Whitmarsh i think the Tyler Family owned Temple Mills so i am sure Old Duggie about 96 years young may know the answer , but if young Duggie reads this he may ask Dad to confirm the question asked.
Sparrow,I knew Johnny Hogan very well.He made a book in the name of Harry Morgan.The last time I saw him was at Teddy Driscolls funeral nearly five years ogo at St.Georges Cathedral,Southwark.Someone saw him in a bar at Mijas La Cala two summers ago.I didnt know Johnny had a brother,he had a sister,Anne.His father and uncle,Patsy and Johnny were always racing.Young John clerked for his father when he was very young on the aways and sometimes had three different books going.He was an excellent clerk working for Teddy Craze and Tony Morris at White City,the Power brothers and Obie Dyer at Harringay and Mel Attreed at Romford.He wrote a poem about every Derby winner and their colours since the war that deserved to be published.He often completed the Times crossword either on the train or in the car on the way to the races.He was a very intelligent fellow.
Southwark,I meant old Duggies father ,young Duggie wouldnt have been born.
Whitmarsh. I think it must be the father as I vaguely remember his brother Patsy although I would only have been around 10 or 11 years of age. They lived in the Stockwell area I think.
Was dog racing about in 1900 to 1914 before thr Great War.
Southwark,I dont know.I started going in the late twenties with my black and white greyhound to Perry Vale.
The Knight,There was a terrific picture of the old Clapton in 1931 in a book about London I was recently looking through.It showed six men putting the dogs in the traps and said greyhound racingwas very popular with men before and after the war but there are only Wimbledon and Romford left in London.It wasnt a dog racing book just about London life in the past.We had another White City thread going entitled White City,the same as this one but with no dash in between.I dont know how you get them back up.Also do you know if you can print these threads off,copy them as I dont know how you do it.
The Knight,There was a terrific picture of the old Clapton in 1931 in a book about London I was recently looking through.It showed six men putting the dogs in the traps and said greyhound racingwas very popular with men before and after the war but there are only Wimbledon and Romford left in London.It wasnt a dog racing book just about London life in the past.We had another White City thread going entitled White City,the same as this one but with no dash in between.I dont know how you get them back up.Also do you know if you can print these threads off,copy them as I dont know how you do it.
"whitmarsh"......................You mentioned Ted Craze. He had two joints............on a Thursday he would bet under the name of "Ted Craze" & on a Saturday, his joint was headed "Craze & Gibbs"...............I was curious, but never found out why.
"Cutface" Ross worked on the floor for him.
"Cutface" Ross worked on the floor for him.
Mr.Memory,I never knew the reason.Do you remember Teds brother Jacko always very polished shoes.
Whitmarsh. I have brought back the other White City thread which you mentioned just a bit lower down the list
http://vimeo.com/2258891
I am not sure if anyone has seen this or posted the link...if they have apologies,
just paste into your browser....hopefully you will see some old "faces"
I am not sure if anyone has seen this or posted the link...if they have apologies,
just paste into your browser....hopefully you will see some old "faces"
Some names here I clearly recall from my misspent youth
Albi called my Dad yesterday and is fine,proper gent,loved him
Roland was the No 1 judge on the track....bar none,he and Albi worked together for years....whenever Michael Mendoza or Lights came they took his card,or tried to,he did indeed work in an electrical shop at the bottom or Marylebone Lane...another top guy,hope he is still ok
No mention here of Bubbles,he was a punter turned bookie,ended up outside betting behind Young Harry(Newman)and driving him nuts ripping it up...he must have made glass and I think he has some deal where he supplied the windows for the restaurant.
Bookies on the cheap side were
Joe Clarke aka Mick Harvey,later Tony Russo, Bamis son,both much missed
Ted McEntee...very old when I came along,gave him a lift back to Harrow most nights
Horace Fry
Joe Bennett
Alfredo Nathan...more of which later
Harold Crockford...who played for Fulham....
Steve Griffin
Gil and Gary Terry
Morry Pincus(Nat Slavin)
Walter Toffee Prince and his boys
Albi...who had to move down the line
Young Harry...and one other before Bubbles came along
Initially worked with Joe Clarke on the steps,then Alf Nathan and Geoff...I know most people thought he was horrible but with me never a problem ever..he drove Geoff nuts...anyway one dog derby heats night he took a turn...a heart attack seemingly and I have to get up and bet while we got a chair for him and he sat through the racing...one race old bill popped up and clearly recall him shouting
"win for Alfeeeee" poor old sod never made another meeting....I liked a bet,well every race,and always used to call my bets down as through the lovable Ray Deverson was having them...he was our best customer!
Barry Palmer was just a kid and a few of us knocked about after the racing in town til very very late....usually an indian then the Victoria Casino...we would bump into Barney Curley and....Young Harry Newman playing his money up...Barry was and is a great workman
Steve had a good team
Somehow I must have taken Larmers job,not intentionally,and regret it to this day,Geoff asked and I took it up...we also had little Sam on the bag,used to look like a Tetley tea man.Poor old Geoff(Lewis)had a rough time and died far too young,he worked at the races for the Tote latterly,I had a roll up bet on the football with him at Haydock,and they all won....he called me on the M6 on the way back moaning his heart out...RIP
I do have some pictures,my favourite is of the brilliant Sam the Barber....we used to go out of our way to give him a ride home to around Bloomsbury way...forever going on about Albert Apps doing this and that at Watford....my mates loved him to bits
Ebby....passed way,used to visit his flat atop a big tower block in Hayes...with my kids in the last years of his life,they thought he was bonkers with his Damon Runyon style of talking,never had a clue what he was on about...but he always found something to give them...
I used to leave school at 4 on a Tues and Thurs,couldnt wait to get there,me and my group still miss it,or maybe miss our youth of doing your bollix then thinking what the hell lets go out
Albi called my Dad yesterday and is fine,proper gent,loved him
Roland was the No 1 judge on the track....bar none,he and Albi worked together for years....whenever Michael Mendoza or Lights came they took his card,or tried to,he did indeed work in an electrical shop at the bottom or Marylebone Lane...another top guy,hope he is still ok
No mention here of Bubbles,he was a punter turned bookie,ended up outside betting behind Young Harry(Newman)and driving him nuts ripping it up...he must have made glass and I think he has some deal where he supplied the windows for the restaurant.
Bookies on the cheap side were
Joe Clarke aka Mick Harvey,later Tony Russo, Bamis son,both much missed
Ted McEntee...very old when I came along,gave him a lift back to Harrow most nights
Horace Fry
Joe Bennett
Alfredo Nathan...more of which later
Harold Crockford...who played for Fulham....
Steve Griffin
Gil and Gary Terry
Morry Pincus(Nat Slavin)
Walter Toffee Prince and his boys
Albi...who had to move down the line
Young Harry...and one other before Bubbles came along
Initially worked with Joe Clarke on the steps,then Alf Nathan and Geoff...I know most people thought he was horrible but with me never a problem ever..he drove Geoff nuts...anyway one dog derby heats night he took a turn...a heart attack seemingly and I have to get up and bet while we got a chair for him and he sat through the racing...one race old bill popped up and clearly recall him shouting
"win for Alfeeeee" poor old sod never made another meeting....I liked a bet,well every race,and always used to call my bets down as through the lovable Ray Deverson was having them...he was our best customer!
Barry Palmer was just a kid and a few of us knocked about after the racing in town til very very late....usually an indian then the Victoria Casino...we would bump into Barney Curley and....Young Harry Newman playing his money up...Barry was and is a great workman
Steve had a good team
Somehow I must have taken Larmers job,not intentionally,and regret it to this day,Geoff asked and I took it up...we also had little Sam on the bag,used to look like a Tetley tea man.Poor old Geoff(Lewis)had a rough time and died far too young,he worked at the races for the Tote latterly,I had a roll up bet on the football with him at Haydock,and they all won....he called me on the M6 on the way back moaning his heart out...RIP
I do have some pictures,my favourite is of the brilliant Sam the Barber....we used to go out of our way to give him a ride home to around Bloomsbury way...forever going on about Albert Apps doing this and that at Watford....my mates loved him to bits
Ebby....passed way,used to visit his flat atop a big tower block in Hayes...with my kids in the last years of his life,they thought he was bonkers with his Damon Runyon style of talking,never had a clue what he was on about...but he always found something to give them...
I used to leave school at 4 on a Tues and Thurs,couldnt wait to get there,me and my group still miss it,or maybe miss our youth of doing your bollix then thinking what the hell lets go out
"celticgr"................I am pleased to hear that Albie is OK......I have not bumped into him shopping in Ruislip lately.
There is another White City thread somewhere........it does not include a hyphen.
It must be the one that details the price war between Tony Morris & "Bubbles" who was financing Ronnie Hales next door at the time. Never mind the dogs, people used to pay their entrance just to watch the goings on....Tony bet to 100.5% in one race that I remember.
There is another White City thread somewhere........it does not include a hyphen.
It must be the one that details the price war between Tony Morris & "Bubbles" who was financing Ronnie Hales next door at the time. Never mind the dogs, people used to pay their entrance just to watch the goings on....Tony bet to 100.5% in one race that I remember.
A couple of nice shots on the video.............Two of Issy Farr Ronnie Hales betting next door to Tony.....no sign of "Bubbles" though.
celtic
''Ebby....passed way,used to visit his flat atop a big tower block in Hayes...with my kids in the last years of his life,they thought he was bonkers with his Damon Runyon style of talking,never had a clue what he was on about...but he always found something to give them...''
i also knew Ebby, think he was an Estate Agent,in Hayes. i remember him running down from the restaurant
revolving doors at white city to have his bets.
he had a pal called Gerry(silver hair).
all great characters.
loved white city, never that keen on wembley, although if you tailed Georgie Brown when he had
a bet in the opens , you usually won on the night!
''Ebby....passed way,used to visit his flat atop a big tower block in Hayes...with my kids in the last years of his life,they thought he was bonkers with his Damon Runyon style of talking,never had a clue what he was on about...but he always found something to give them...''
i also knew Ebby, think he was an Estate Agent,in Hayes. i remember him running down from the restaurant
revolving doors at white city to have his bets.
he had a pal called Gerry(silver hair).
all great characters.
loved white city, never that keen on wembley, although if you tailed Georgie Brown when he had
a bet in the opens , you usually won on the night!
celticgr 10 Sep 10 00:27
Mr Memory and Whitmarsh
this has been great reading your memories....I have to ask you one brain teaser...at both White City and Wembley there were two putter onners who worked in the restaurant,one shorter and looked not unlike Harry Carpenter,the other larger with glasses...both real gents,would pop onto Ebbys table,much to Vernons chagrin(the restaurant manager)
To my shame their names have completely erased from my grey matter
Another bookie in the cheap ring I recall was Wag Shaw,nice quiet guy.
Last little story,there was an odious Irishman on the cheap side who hated bookies....Pay the punter...Pay the punter...Pay the punter...on and on...one night,Noel Furlong who now works for Ladbrokes on course nicked his hat.....it was the best race of the night...now Noel was a brilliant footballer and Gaelic and super fit....1/10.......every time Pay the Punter caught Noel he would nip away...the crowd went mad,he was up and down the stairs and escalator.....Im sure the race went by and everyone was more into this duel...I wont say what Noel did to the hat but I wouldnt have put it on.....he did though.....Noel got plenty of respect after that...and a bit of credit....I have a picture somewhere at the end of night where Noel showered under a leaking gutter ...gog know what his mum would have thought....Noel is one of the good guys also,think he owns a few dogs still..
We had a winner one night at WC trained by Kinchett,Singapore Decca,low grader....in fairness Roland told me it would win not the trainer.......Noel and the rest were all on...and as it was the last race I had to go over to get the decanter......it was like the Wembley roar.....and it was only Noel hooting....the next week it won again,I went over to pick up another decanter....and some guy popped on the track who I had never seen before and grabbed it,claimed he was a part owner....transpired one of partners had sold a share without the rest of us knowing....he used the money to buy Shanakill Loyal...which was a useful hurdler
Night all
Mr Memory and Whitmarsh
this has been great reading your memories....I have to ask you one brain teaser...at both White City and Wembley there were two putter onners who worked in the restaurant,one shorter and looked not unlike Harry Carpenter,the other larger with glasses...both real gents,would pop onto Ebbys table,much to Vernons chagrin(the restaurant manager)
To my shame their names have completely erased from my grey matter
Another bookie in the cheap ring I recall was Wag Shaw,nice quiet guy.
Last little story,there was an odious Irishman on the cheap side who hated bookies....Pay the punter...Pay the punter...Pay the punter...on and on...one night,Noel Furlong who now works for Ladbrokes on course nicked his hat.....it was the best race of the night...now Noel was a brilliant footballer and Gaelic and super fit....1/10.......every time Pay the Punter caught Noel he would nip away...the crowd went mad,he was up and down the stairs and escalator.....Im sure the race went by and everyone was more into this duel...I wont say what Noel did to the hat but I wouldnt have put it on.....he did though.....Noel got plenty of respect after that...and a bit of credit....I have a picture somewhere at the end of night where Noel showered under a leaking gutter ...gog know what his mum would have thought....Noel is one of the good guys also,think he owns a few dogs still..
We had a winner one night at WC trained by Kinchett,Singapore Decca,low grader....in fairness Roland told me it would win not the trainer.......Noel and the rest were all on...and as it was the last race I had to go over to get the decanter......it was like the Wembley roar.....and it was only Noel hooting....the next week it won again,I went over to pick up another decanter....and some guy popped on the track who I had never seen before and grabbed it,claimed he was a part owner....transpired one of partners had sold a share without the rest of us knowing....he used the money to buy Shanakill Loyal...which was a useful hurdler
Night all
Masked
sorry I didnt reply...Ebby was a man of many masks also,a great entertainer...first met him when my grandmother to Wembley around 1966,he was clerking for Bennie Simmons at a guess,he was adverse to work though and perfected the art of getting away with it,while looking like a multi..often being asked on cruises..he loved Las Palmas and often spent 6-7 weeks there during the winter....you are correct however he did have an estate agents in Hayes...J Harrington and Co....I worked there as a 14 year old as the Saturday boy...there wasnt a lot of houses being sold as I was left to look after the customers whilst various characters went upstairs to the flat for the ITV 7 and racing...Gerry the silver haired guy was a lodger....rent always being promised on the death of a very rich Aunt..others who dropped in were Fast Eddy,Mad Alan,Gil Terry(another lodger)a guy called Sid who was a car dealer,another guy who became very rich selling Yves St Laurent suits,a partner of Brian Wright..it was a very exciting place for a 14 y-o to be around whilst my mates were working in butcher or fruit shops.
The job didnt last more than a year as someone told my Mum what was going on....he had a couple of guys working in the shop,one of them Neil I still see,he is mini Ebby still,he looked after Eb in the years he was ill then the council lobbed him out of the flat...
George was a judge,but I never ever asked anyone their business,if I saw them then I would have a bet,there were other good judges,Roland at White City has been mentioned,and was NO1 in my book,but Alan Isherwood was another...these guys thrived before video and wall the wall coverage
sorry I didnt reply...Ebby was a man of many masks also,a great entertainer...first met him when my grandmother to Wembley around 1966,he was clerking for Bennie Simmons at a guess,he was adverse to work though and perfected the art of getting away with it,while looking like a multi..often being asked on cruises..he loved Las Palmas and often spent 6-7 weeks there during the winter....you are correct however he did have an estate agents in Hayes...J Harrington and Co....I worked there as a 14 year old as the Saturday boy...there wasnt a lot of houses being sold as I was left to look after the customers whilst various characters went upstairs to the flat for the ITV 7 and racing...Gerry the silver haired guy was a lodger....rent always being promised on the death of a very rich Aunt..others who dropped in were Fast Eddy,Mad Alan,Gil Terry(another lodger)a guy called Sid who was a car dealer,another guy who became very rich selling Yves St Laurent suits,a partner of Brian Wright..it was a very exciting place for a 14 y-o to be around whilst my mates were working in butcher or fruit shops.
The job didnt last more than a year as someone told my Mum what was going on....he had a couple of guys working in the shop,one of them Neil I still see,he is mini Ebby still,he looked after Eb in the years he was ill then the council lobbed him out of the flat...
George was a judge,but I never ever asked anyone their business,if I saw them then I would have a bet,there were other good judges,Roland at White City has been mentioned,and was NO1 in my book,but Alan Isherwood was another...these guys thrived before video and wall the wall coverage
celtic,
agree with Alan Isherwood , would also put Les Swaby high up
the list of top judges.
you're right about how good they were, pre Sky and videos.
they spent fortunes on petrol travelling around watching the
open race scene.
If there were in their prime now, theyd have fewer exes and
win more on here.
nothing but respect for them all.
agree with Alan Isherwood , would also put Les Swaby high up
the list of top judges.
you're right about how good they were, pre Sky and videos.
they spent fortunes on petrol travelling around watching the
open race scene.
If there were in their prime now, theyd have fewer exes and
win more on here.
nothing but respect for them all.
yeah I agree with you sparrow, is whitmarsh still about ?
No I don't think either whitmarsh or Mr Memory are still with us.
They both had incredible powers of memory. Whitmarsh actually attended the first and last Harringay meetings.
a lot of the things they have mentioned on their posts are still relevant today
like following certain kennels when the money is down
travellng miles just to back one dog at a meeting
or the derby dog that was odds on in every round and got knocked over in the semi
the lessons they must have learnt ! total respect
like following certain kennels when the money is down
travellng miles just to back one dog at a meeting
or the derby dog that was odds on in every round and got knocked over in the semi
the lessons they must have learnt ! total respect
It was a completely different world to nowadays. I first went racing at White City in the 1950s, where my father worked as a clerk for John White senior, but I never started betting myself until the 60s. Seen so many great punters come and go.
I saw the second derby win of patricia's hope , place was packed solid, tote queues were unreal.
Wonderful thread, whitmarsh and Mr.Memory are much missed, hope they are at peace now.
I saw I'm Slippy win the Derby at White City in 1983 and earlier on in the evening HaymakerMack broke the track record in the consolation final. The atmosphere at the stadium was quite incredible.
I saw I'm Slippy win the Derby at White City in 1983 and earlier on in the evening HaymakerMack broke the track record in the consolation final. The atmosphere at the stadium was quite incredible.
Saw my first Derby in 1951, Ballylanigan Tanist.
Was hooked for life. Never be another track like it.
Hundreds of bookmakers there in them days.
Sad day when it went.
Was hooked for life. Never be another track like it.
Hundreds of bookmakers there in them days.
Sad day when it went.
my friend is 89 still very fit he used to be in boxing game
I'm 48, first went to the dogs at Catford with Dad in 1971. I used to go to Keston every Sunday morning to walk his dogs from age 5 onwards, happy memories of when the sport was in full flourish.
76 clacton! For some reason I thought you were a lot younger than that. Like you, I started young as well. At school I was light years ahead of everyone else at maths, In could settle a trixie in my head when still in short trousers!
I often saw my school teacher at the City on a Saturday night.
I was about 13 at the time. I told him I was with my dad.
I was about 13 at the time. I told him I was with my dad.
Same with me clacton, my maths teacher was a Catford and Wimbledon regular and I saw him often at the tracks. He always said to me not to say he goes to the dogs as he didn't want other teachers to know his business, I said no problem Sir but just to let you know I haven't done my maths homework so have nothing to hand in tomorrow. He'd say, you don't need any maths homework sonny 
Nice one slippy, I went to the poly on Holloway Road from 68-72 and often went to Hackney on sat morning and Haringay with a great cockney mate as part of my statistics studying ! Great way to grow up but memories just a haze now.
clacton one of my teachers mr owen sadly no longer with us used to go to hendon
I invited about 5/6 of my Teachers to come to the dogs ,they all came to city for night out 
My first memory of gambling was laying earole each of 3 in playschool the round square or arch window then moving on to making a book on wacky races ew a fifth the odds except Dick Dastardly who was 33s but win only
sparrow • March 19, 2015 7:42 AM GMT
No I don't think either whitmarsh or Mr Memory are still with us.
sad to hear
but glad they took time out to share their memories with us
Tonight(Thursday) was White City night if I remember rightly
They were wonderful days when we had greyhound tracks all over London, I would go to different tracks most evenings(except Sundays..
no Sunday racing then)
It seems a crime what we have done
Still we have to take what is left of greyhound racing, while it is still here
No I don't think either whitmarsh or Mr Memory are still with us.
sad to hear
but glad they took time out to share their memories with us
Tonight(Thursday) was White City night if I remember rightly
They were wonderful days when we had greyhound tracks all over London, I would go to different tracks most evenings(except Sundays..
no Sunday racing then)
It seems a crime what we have done
Still we have to take what is left of greyhound racing, while it is still here
Tues Thurs Sat City ,used to go Wembley Mon and Friday ,coach ran from from outside White City
won 20 quid from them when their gang mrember was to slow followed by those magic words feck off
there is another white city thread it is also a very good read it is white city without the hyphen but i dont know how you recover them
still trying to find the Catford fred, which was a classic
Slippy, think there was a New Cross one too. I'll have a look.
Indian joe 1980 derby winner got 33t1 first derby winner that got me hooked on greyhounds 
Some posts from an old thread about Indian Joe.
The kidknapped dog was Hi Joe, the 1965 derby fav. Indian Joe won the 1980 derby, as a pup he reached the Irish derby final in 1978.
bbc2 18 May 12 11:08
yep had the semi won just limped home for 3rd place in the semi final.they worked on it with magneto pulse machine cutting edge stuff at the time
bbc2 18 May 12 11:14
the big books offered indian joe at 25-1 on wednesday before the final.thinking it would be withdrawn.went off 5-4 fav on final night blasted out oi oi oi all the way
The kidknapped dog was Hi Joe, the 1965 derby fav. Indian Joe won the 1980 derby, as a pup he reached the Irish derby final in 1978.
bbc2 18 May 12 11:08
yep had the semi won just limped home for 3rd place in the semi final.they worked on it with magneto pulse machine cutting edge stuff at the time
bbc2 18 May 12 11:14
the big books offered indian joe at 25-1 on wednesday before the final.thinking it would be withdrawn.went off 5-4 fav on final night blasted out oi oi oi all the way
IS JIMMY THE ONE STILL ABOUT , AND RAY MICHALL WHO WORKED AT FINSBURY SQ NCP IN THE CITY
If we are talking about the same Jimmy the One (a pal of Stan Bowles), I would have thought he would have to be about 90 if he is still alive.
he was a put on for people mostly horses rydal and gubbodid put it on for the milkman
could someone put up the New Cross thread they talk about. not sure how to do it, would love to read it
Actually ....this could be the best white city thread
Old whitmarsh would have been 97 this year
Wonder if there is anyone actually reading this
That went to greyhound racing
Back at the start in the 20's
My mother was dragged along as a kid
She has no memory of it now
Dementia has taken its toll
Wonder if there is anyone actually reading this
That went to greyhound racing
Back at the start in the 20's
My mother was dragged along as a kid
She has no memory of it now
Dementia has taken its toll
whitmarsh and mr memory they were fantastic with there stories on the forum
I was a youth of about 14 or 15 and the psst, got a dog for you man told us at Wembley one Friday Ellas Penguin would win the stayers race at White City the following Tuesday, I had 40 at 9/4, a massive bet for me, duly obliged, black cab back to Deptford cost a fiver
Was looking at 1967 League cup final Programme
Article in it saying The Dogs Keep Wembley Going
over 100 meeting year More than covered the cost of running the stadium
how things have changed
Article in it saying The Dogs Keep Wembley Going
over 100 meeting year More than covered the cost of running the stadium
how things have changed
the old nanny ;-) 02 Feb 25 16:51
Was looking at 1967 League cup final Programme
Article in it saying The Dogs Keep Wembley Going
over 100 meeting year More than covered the cost of running the stadium
how things have changed
Even had to reschedule a World Cup game in 1966 as it clashed with the regular Wembley meeting.
Was looking at 1967 League cup final Programme
Article in it saying The Dogs Keep Wembley Going
over 100 meeting year More than covered the cost of running the stadium
how things have changed
Even had to reschedule a World Cup game in 1966 as it clashed with the regular Wembley meeting.
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