DJ playing LIV

Watson, Poulter. Phil, Westwood, Stenson.
Looks like a seller at Catterick.

Phil now 24 over par in 7 rounds on LIV. $200 million for that. I'll take Finau and Young ripping up Detroit over this rubbish.

Onto the third event now and something I've noticed is that my golf twitter timeline during the event is full of talk about new defectors, the protests, Trump, Norman and general controversy but I didn't see one tweet discussing the golf or the scores because no one cares - I had to go to their website to find out anything that had actually happened on the course. Once the soap opera aspect wears off there's just no real sporting interest in it.

You only have to listen to Feherty trying to make it sound interesting - pure fake. A gathering of very dislikeable people, all with something in common - Greed.

They talk as if they have found the secret sauce with the kids, how you only need to watch 4.5 hours now instead of 12. But who ever watched 12 hours per day of PGA Tour? Most viewers would still only watch the last 3 hours or so on a Sunday and maybe Saturday which is no change to what LIV is offering, their product is just harder to follow.

They want the average age of viewer to come down as well but if they think the youth in America are going to stay indoors to watch old has-beens play golf on a weekend in the summer they are off their heads. LIV is not the NFL and even then the NFL is on over the cooler months when people want to be indoors.

Phil tracker - +26

110k for 3rd on the euro tour this week

120k for last on LIV

who layed stenson at 460/1 for 50 odd quid. in a small field like that with lots of players out of form it seems mad

Com'mon the 4 Aces ffs - what a farce

Jul 30, 2022 -- 6:53PM, therhino wrote:

They talk as if they have found the secret sauce with the kids, how you only need to watch 4.5 hours now instead of 12. But who ever watched 12 hours per day of PGA Tour? Most viewers would still only watch the last 3 hours or so on a Sunday and maybe Saturday which is no change to what LIV is offering, their product is just harder to follow. They want the average age of viewer to come down as well but if they think the youth in America are going to stay indoors to watch old has-beens play golf on a weekend in the summer they are off their heads. LIV is not the NFL and even then the NFL is on over the cooler months when people want to be indoors. Phil tracker - +26

The problem with them reducing it to as little time as possible is that even 4.5-5 hours is an awful long time to watch sport. And when the action is going on everywhere all at once (and nothing in terms of online shot tracking or anything) it becomes something you really need to concentrate hard on to have any idea what's going on, so the times I've watched it it actually feels quite long and taxing as opposed to a full day of golf you can relax and dip in and out of. It's meant to feel livelier but if anything it makes it a more dull unpleasant watch.

Just had a look on YouTube with Big Tone dominating in Detroit. Less than 100K viewers watching the free broadcast down the stretch on the final day, drunk MAGAs cheering Let's go Brandon.

Splendid.

Why no comments allowed on the YouTube stream I wonder

Big Tone tearing it up lately, good kad

Lad

Watched the final round last night at Bedminster which was the first time I've watched a full round of LIV Golf.

The course was a good test you could see why it was selected to hold the PGA and certainly more challenging than some of the recent offerings on the PGA Tour. Stenson played well the other never quite got close enough to apply sufficient pressure - Reed played well but didn't hole any putts, Dj threatened but didn't take his chances at the right moments. Wolff charged through but was always to far back.

The team element was being pushed very strongly by the commentary teams and there is certainly the potential for drama and swings but at this stage I am not sure anyone really cares - whether this can develop in time remains to be seen. The addition to Feherty added some quality to broadcast team and I suspect this will be further uplevelled in due course.

The best thing was the lack of adverts essentially wall to wall golf for five hours with shot after shot. The final groups in contention were basically covered like a PGA tour event with good shots and mainly putts from others. The leaderboard updates in real time so when you see a recorded birdie the leaderboard has already been updated. I suspect when they get a broadcast partner adverts will become part and parcel.

From a betting point of view it was hard work. Before the off there were some strange prices matched at very high odds that I could lay off before the start for a starting green. In running it was rather like one of those alternative field events on the PGA where there is no coverage which is slightly surprising given it is free to view. The prices at timed seemed ahead of the pictures but at other times they weren't this was probably down to the lack of liquidity. Betfair didn't offer a market for the team element, if they did this would be a market that could offer big swings.

Three events in LIV have come along way from the days of rumours they couldn't fill the field at Centurion and Robert Garrigus would be the star attraction. There is some quality - DJ is still a class act and the field was probably stronger than what has teed it up in any of the PGA events in America over the last month. Given the amount LIV have spent on players the website is shocking, there is no app and very limited statistical information, the leaderboard regularly crashes - you would think this will be a priority to improve.

The money is a huge factor and will continue to attract players and as long as the saudis are committed to the project LIV will be around. Stenson picked up a million more than Finau has for his last two wins. Reed this week earned more than Finau, Pat Perez has picked up 1.5 million in the team element of the last two events his 750k for winning the team event without a score counting was more than Cantlay got for finishing 2nd in Detroit. Jediah Morgan has earned over 400k in 3 events despite finishing DFL twice. His 120k this week was more than 3rd place got at the Hero euro event.

It is likely there will be a raft of rumours in terms of new players as the Fed Ex Cup comes to a finish. How many more they can sign is questionable given you would think most people signing up have taken at least an 18 month deal which makes the signings of Howell and Perez slightly perplexing given neither are that good or that popular. That said LIV have come along way in a short time recruiting players who are 'names' granted most are probably past their peak. The rumours are strong on Smith, Scott, Leishman, Cantlay and Hideki (who would be a significant signing) pretty much everyone who has been strongly rumoured has joined.

LIV isn't the PGA Tour and it will be a long time if ever that it becomes the number one ticket in town. They will be around a while and continue to pick up players. There is every chance it will become the 'second' tour and if that is global it will be beneficial. I can't help but feel the PGA tour have over reacted to the threat from LIV and have come out of it looking petty. They are the biggest show in town and even if they lose some of their better players there are a queue of talented youngsters ready to step up. The DP world tour have in my eyes missed a trick not partnering with LIV and will before long be a feeder tour to the PGA.

I can see why LIV has been so polarizing but it does offer more opportunities to bet which after all is why we are all here!

will LIV be around in 25 years time?......generally, "projects" last if they achieve financial viability.......viability can only be achieved when upfront fees are not paid and the prize fund is reduced. when this happens, the incentive to play in LIV goes away. because the only incentive is money. team golf only works once every  2 years re the ryder cup. golf is an individual game. the 54 hole format has been introduced to say its different. there is no tv deal that can match the fees and prize fund. it cannot achieve financial viability. so will they continue to subsidise this for 1 billion plus every year? the answer is no. at some stage someone will say we need to pull the plug. so i dont get how some on here think it will continue. all that is happening is a near perfect set up - week to week entertainment every year on the pga tour - is being interfered with. there is a great process for getting on to the tour and for getting into the WGC, players and majors. LIV is basically a rich entity throwing money at sports pros for their own reasons. it could easily be a jeff bezos type guy who loves golf and sets up his own tour to add another project to his ego. to have a bunch of stars working for him. look at me...........for the lee westwoods and paul caseys there will be no consequences when its over. they will be in their 50's and they can retire to florida, spain or wherever. but for taylor gooch and some other youngsters, im not so sure. i watched tony finau winning on sunday. it wasnt a great field but it was a good comeptition. im not going to watch liv. the only motivation is money. winning the seniors british open for clarke and the seniors PGA for padraig meant a lot to them. you could see it in the final 9 holes and when they sunk the winning putt.........this does not exist on LIV.......some of you can pretend all you want..........reminds me if when carlos tevez went to play in china. and some brazilians in the peak of their careers went also......is that still around?...........yeah, cocid may be the main reason. but it was never going to last anyway was it? because the salaries were too high. it could not last because it could not achieve financial liability. retrictions were put in place as to how much the clubs could spend.

Patrick Reed off to play in Singapore and Korea on the Asian Tour because you know, he wants to play less golf.

therhino 02 Aug 22 09:05 
Patrick Reed off to play in Singapore and Korea on the Asian Tour because you know, he wants to play less golf.

Reed has average over 30 events a year, every year, for the last decade ...

Brain dead - THE PIF fund has $650 billion dollars a year behind it. The Sauids are clearing a billion a day on Oil at the moment. I wouldn't worry about it running out of funds any time soon.

The amount the likes Gooch will earn over the next three or four years will be greater than most guys can earn in a career. Every chance they will be will win the legal case against the PGA tour and be able to play events there if they wish.

Rumours that a 'junior' LIV will be launched to pick up the best 18 - 23 year olds.

I don't think it will be going anywhere any time soon.

His schedule was his apparent reason for defecting Mighty and that he wanted to spend more time with his kids. The hypocrisy is outrageous but when you're worth 9 figures you can pretty much talk as much gobsh1te as you like.

Don't get how you're a fan of all this tbh.

He is going to play less. There are only 8 LIV Events this year and he missed the first. None for a month.

I wouldn't say I am a fan but think it has potential to offer something different.

I get why the PGA Tour are against it - it is a threat to their dominance but I don't get the general opposition.

On Sunday I had one eye on the PGA tour event and one eye on LIV - the LIV final round was better in my opinion with a stronger field.

MW 2008--Why do you claim they have every chance in a legal case when you have absolutely no idea what the true chances are?

I think their argument is that players should be allowed to play where and when they want,
except that some MUST play in every LIV event.

If LIV  thought they had every chance it would be rather stupid to buy any new players
at the current prices.

The parent company may be worth billions but they are not in the business of burning money.
When they were buying Newcastle they didn't tell Ashley to name his price,but they spent weeks
negotiating looking for any reason to lower the price.
Newcastle cost $415m which is less than the total for Phil,Koepka and Bryson.

They genuinely believed there was a long term profit in investing in LIV

Now they will be looking at the balance sheet seeing over $2 billion spent(including 2023 prize money) with only 1 top 15 player on board.
But it's the $0 on the other side of the balance sheet that will worry them most.
That's 5 Newcastle Uniteds and not a penny in return.

Possible why they've bought forward the 2024 schedule to 2023.
There is no way that they will continue to spend hundreds of millions if it becomes obvious that there is no chance of a return.

The end could come as early as next year.

LIV only make headlines when they are buying new golfers and that will soon end.
They could easily become relatively insignificant very quickly.

If they are to invest in new players before next season I think it would make more sense to buy 4 or 5 well known names (Woodland,Cink,Glover,Fowler,Day,Zach etc)than spending the same amount on one player like Cantlay or Matsuyama.
Would Sunday's final round have been more watchable if it was Cantlay instead of Stenson?

I wouldn't be surprised if no new players are bought and they go with what they've got.
After all LIV's selling point is suppose to be attracting youngsters to the team event/team league.

JML

"The parent company may be worth billions but they are not in the business of burning money.
When they were buying Newcastle they didn't tell Ashley to name his price,but they spent weeks
negotiating looking for any reason to lower the price."

"There is no way that they will continue to spend hundreds of millions if it becomes obvious that there is no chance of a return."

exactly what im saying..........its pretty embarassing the amount of money they have given phil mickleson and how he has played. there is no chance of financial viability and therefore it wont last.........

it is pure fantasy that they are going to chuck 1 billion down the drain every year for 50 years.

Possible why they've bought forward the 2024 schedule to 2023.
There is no way that they will continue to spend hundreds of millions if it becomes obvious that there is no chance of a return.

The end could come as early as next year.

Virtually zero chance it will end next year. The full schedule has been brought forward a year due to the early success - effectively they are ahead of where they expected to be. They have the players in place for the full 48 players for a fixed team event next year. It amazes me that people still think that this will go away.

Long term I am sure they will want to be self funding but that is not the immediate aim. There are wider goals for the PIF fund which has $650 million behind it. Look at the fee offered to Tiger there will be more than enough to keep it going in the short to medium turn. This article explains the rationale behind the Saudi approach

https://theathletic.com/3435280/2022/07/27/liv-golf-saudi-arabia-pga-tour/

While Vision 2030 is technically financed by the country, the PIF has its own long-term strategy within that. One major pursuit was a pet project of MBS’ right-hand man atop the PIF.

“Al-Rumayyan’s big thing is golf,” says one individual who has long studied Saudi leadership and requested anonymity. “He’s obsessed. … He cares more about golf than anything in the world.”

This is what makes LIV inherently different. It’s not the PIF taking a stake in an existing company or wealth fund. It’s not Prince Mohammed using his personal fortune to buy Renaissance art or a yacht.

It is, instead, a creation born directly from the PIF. It’s one of 48 companies spawned by the fund over the last six years.

And it’s a creation aimed at status.

“When it comes to golf, there could very well be Saudis who love golf, play golf, follow golf, and who, as a point of pride, want to have their own golf league,” Graeme Wood says. “But make no mistake, it’s also because Saudi Arabia wants to have something that rich countries have. Why have a sports team when you can have a whole league?”


In time they will look to sell franchises of the teams, TV rights, merchandise, image rights etc. Its a start up so there will be costs to get going. The players for next year are reported to all be now signed up so there will no longer be the need beyond the unannounced batch to pay more fees in the short term. Signing a player like Matsuyama would be huge far bigger than some more journeyman Americans. Golf is a global game and much of the thought around LIV is being seen through an anglo-american perspective.

In 3 events we have gone from the first field was not going to be filled or if so with the likes of Robert Garrigus linked as a big name to 3 events in 5 of the PIP top ten signing up. The majority of masters winners over the last 10 -15 years have signed up or are about to.

The PGA tour clearly don't think it will be a flash in the pan short term thing and have gone from saying the threat from LIV was over in March to completely changing their schedule to now an 8 month season from 2024 (too much golf anyone), the introduction of their own LIV style limited field events and finding additional prize money of $415million (wonder where they were hiding that). You can see how rattled they are - rather than promoting why they are the best (could it be they can no longer poach the worlds best and crush rival tours with more money) to negative attacks  on the source of the money (no comments on the Aramco series or the fact Saudi money has big stakes in 40 PGA tour sponsors or that Saudi is an ally of USA). Character assassinations on Norman and Mickleson and now bullying players with the threats of bans. The next steps will be to pressure the OWGR to refuse ranking points or get the majors to ban players.

I doubt LIV will go away in the short term and it is likely the lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee and getting rich before some form of compromise in the short to medium term future.

You just make things up as you go along.

Even LIV haven't made the claim that the change is due to "early success" so you
haven't a shred of evidence to back that statement up.

Easy to cherry pick a single article from the dozens that have been written without
explaining why it should be more believable than many others who make totally different claims.


In 3 events we have gone from the first field was not going to be filled.

Total crap because this is what you wrote a full week before the London event

Its a start up and overall a decent first field -  stronger than the Euro tour this week for example

Perhaps it's best if you stuck to the facts in future and leave the bullsh!tting to the
"source close to LIV"

And your accusations against the PGA are pathetic even by your standards.

Character assassinations on Norman and Mickleson and now bullying players with the threats of bans

Provide one example of character assassinations against Mickleson by the PGA.

Banning players for breaking rules they signed up to is not bullying.

Could it be they can no longer poach the worlds best and crush rival tours with more money.

Provide a single example where the PGA have paid a player to join their tour.

finding additional prize money of $415million

Wrong again

JML
Mighty Whites is one of the best posters on here and does so without bias.
He certainly does not MAKE THINGS UP AS HE GOES ALONG!

JML this forum needs dignity, not insults.

From past experience I have disagreed with Mighty Whites and correctly there is no slanging match.

THAT’S NOT GOLF




I

Getting ugly now. Phil, Bryson and a bunch of other LIVers suing the PGA Tour.

Court hearing on Tuesday to see if the LIV 3 can play in the Fed Ex Play offs

Not sure the Masters threatening to ban players from Augusta if they signed up for LIV is a great look when the tour is alleged to hold a monopolistic advantage

The Tom Kim story unfolding at Wyndham tonight is a perfect example of something that LIV can never have: you'll never see a young kid start to explode onto the scene when there's a closed shop of contracted pros churning it out every few weeks. And people always want to see the next big thing.

Kim might actually shoot LIV

Agree TB it makes the PGA Tours stance even more baffling. They should have more confidence in the strength of their tour and what it represents.

Absolute b0ll0cks again MW and what is worse than that is the fact that you know
that it's b0ll0cks.

It's because of the stance that the PGA have taken that LIV have spent over $2Billion and have only 1 top 15 player.

Tell us why you are biased to such an extent that you're prepared to come on here
and say things you know are not true.

This legal action is the last thing that LIV needs.Could go on for years and does nothing to encourage sponserships or advertising.

LIV have a CEO who's happy to encourage action that is detrimental to the company as long as he thinks it's also damaging to the PGA.

As bad feelings between players increase so does the chances of the majors
not allowing LIV players to compete which would be unfair for players like
DJ and BK who aren't taking any legal action.

This week the new OWGR modernised field rating calculation and ranking points comes into effect.

Projected Winners Points this week under the new system

PGA Tour - FedEx St Jude Championship 68.55296
DP Tour - ISPS Handa World Invitational : 8.16824 (last week you got 4 points for winning on the Europro tour!)

Another death knell for the DP world tour - good luck to anyone regularly playing that tour getting into the world's top 100. From a OWGR point of view probably better heading to play on the Korn Ferry Tour.

No cabal of interests at play in the world of golf - no monopolistic dominant control of the game to be seen ...

PGA Tour - FedEx St Jude Championship 68.55296
DP Tour - ISPS Handa World Invitational : 8.16824 (last week you got 4 points for winning on the Europro tour!)

Honestly though, what's the issue? Look at the difference in field quality. If anything the Handa winner will still be getting overs. All this talk of monopolies is much ado about nothing imo, every sport is a pyramid at professional level and PGA Tour is the top of the pyramid. The Euro Tour gets a few weeks in the sun every year and the rest of the time it's a developmental tour.

This doesn't give any credibility to LIV.

Rhino I am old enough to remember the top Europeans basing their schedules around the European Tour. It wasn't always like it currently is in fact it is a relatively new phenomenom.

Last week Davis Love said this - It threatens the structure of the PGA Tour to take 40 or 50 or 40 of the top players and say you can play over her 14 weeks and then you can come back and cherry pick the really good tournaments on the PGA Tour and the majors and not support the rest of the PGA Tour

His comments were about LIV but are actually a perfect summary of what the PGA Tour has done to tours around the world over the last twenty years.

The changes to the world rankings will only exacerbate the problem.

The impact of the new system is likely to be gradual, with little immediate impact on the top 50. Nevertheless, there has been a backlash from some, with criticism that DP World Tour players will find it far harder to break into the top 50 under the new system.

One insider told Golf Monthly: “The one thing that everybody has overlooked is the fact that the European Tour and the rest of the world have been absolutely shafted by the PGA Tour on world ranking points. That’s the one thing that’s never been mentioned, it’s been overlooked, and what the PGA Tour have done to the rest of the world is absolutely outrageous and with all the points decreasing from whenever it is, August 1st, 14th, it’ll be so hard for Europeans to get into the top 50 in the world now it’ll be crazy. So from now on the Europeans will go steadily out of the world’s top 50 and there will be more Americans.


The British Masters is see to set its winners points drop from 24 to 9
The BMW PGA is set to see an even bigger impact.

I'm pleased you've got your "pga tour is a monopoly" tantrum out of the way MW.
It was only a matter of time.

The 3M event on the PGA 3 weeks ago was awarded 26 points.

British Master was awarded 24 points but the field was so much weaker.
In fact you can't even begin to make a comparison.

It's like therhino said---the european tour have been getting overs.

Last week Davis Love said this - It threatens the structure of the PGA Tour to take 40 or 50 or 40 of the top players and say you can play over her 14 weeks and then you can come back and cherry pick the really good tournaments on the PGA Tour and the majors and not support the rest of the PGA Tour

His comments were about LIV but are actually a perfect summary of what the PGA Tour has done to tours around the world over the last twenty years.


The major difference being that the PGA tour didn't chase after the players.Also the players involved didn't break any agreements they had signed up to
with the other tours.

It seems that Greg Norman had said to the early signers that they had nothing to worry about because the PGA couldn't suspend them for a single day.

You should be happy MW---it looks like Smith and Leishman have joined.

So we have a new scoreboard $2.2 Billion to 0.

Next month you'll have conditions as good as they'll come--weak competition from
the other tours and the Open champion on board.Free to watch on TV and no adverts.

If you don't get a serious number of bums on seats under those conditions the game is up.

Telegraph reporting Smith has signed. First genuine game-changer. Having the very best players split between two competing tours is going to be good for no-one really.

"Telegraph reporting Smith has signed. First genuine game-changer"...........koepka, dustin johnson and bryson are all recent major winners. ok, they have not been in great form but they are still young. its a bit of a stretch to say they are not game changers.

The LIV lawyer just said that the money won in tournaments is "recouped against the LIV contacts"


I think that means it makes no real difference to  Mickelson and others with big payoffs if they finishes first or last.

Welcome to LIV Golf, where we supercharge the game of golf and help transform it into the sport it’s destined to become.


I said these legal cases were bad news for LIV.

All naturally occurring Mighty off the back of the massive amount of $$$ Tiger brought to the game which was of course was mostly centred in the US. Worlds apart from a very questionable foreign government bribing the games elite to come and replace genuine competition with permanent corporate day golf.

You sound a little like Norman. Genuinely angry with the PGA Tour. I can respect you or anyone wanting the Euro Tour to reclaim former glories. That isn't happening however and as fans of the game I think we're ultimately all poorer for this farce of a tour seizing power.

Agree with TB that Smith is the first genuine game changer. No question marks re form or age, absolute superstar on the way up. Best player in the world at the moment and the best player to watch. Sad state of affairs.

PGA suspensions upheld in court and the LIVers can't play the playoffs. Interesting the judge pointed out the LIV contracts are far more restrictive than anything the PGA tour has imposed on members.

Independent contractors at LIV might not be so independent.

Hope Smith shows as much class as Feherty when he leaves.

"Grow the game? Bullsh*t. They paid me a lot of money"

prize money in LIV golf doesnt seem to exist............some journos need to ask greg norman a few questions at a press conference. there is no incentive to win so. if this is true WHAT A JOKE.

There will be prize money for some,the lesser known players wouldn't have had large signing on fees
if any at all.

They've now have to think up a relegation system where a large number of players are exempt.

so liv players will get paid what ever is higher - their signing on fee or their prize money.........so where is the incentive to win for those with massive signing on fees?.........very little chance of winning more than such high fees. if this is true, then LIV just lost a whole lot of credibility.

There are scenarios where player A would prefer to finish 2nd to player B than
win the tournament himself.

Cam Smith getting a two shot penalty in contention for a Fedex event while reportedly off to Liv afterwards is going to fuel some conspiracy theories.

What happened TB?

Just seen odds drift hugely and actually on Smith...

He didn't take full relief from a hazard on a drop yesterday and they have given him a two stroke penalty before his round. The ruling looks correct but the delay in doing it seems a bit off and will probably fuel people who think it's an agenda.

The penalty regardless of whether it was correct or not was absurd, they should have done away with these 24 hour delay penalties many moons ago. After the round is done then the score is the score unless clear cheating has been exposed.

Smith pulled out this week - sore hip

Patrick Reed suing Chamblee for 750 million dollars for saying mean things about him is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Beyond laughable. Please don't join up with these utter fecktards Cam.

it's starting to go crazy pretty quickly.i suggest banning the moneyists from the majors ASAP

Tiger rallying the PGA Tour troops to prevent more defections.

Players want more events where the best compete against each other with smaller fields - sounds remarkably similar to the concept of a new breakaway tour.

Despite Tiger's efforts a magnificent seven will be joining the party in Boston.

rhino...does this essentially boil down to Reed's shot from the bunker?  If so judge only needs to watch the replay and realise that Reed is a very lucky guy...as far as evidence goes that is pretty damning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM7UJrsUr5g

Tiger the agent of change along with his gang of twenty demanding:

A tour within a tour - 18 no cut limited field events with a minimum prize fund of 20 million

Renouncing non-profit status with private equity money pumped in and equity stakes for elite players

Guaranteed money of $500,000 dollars for all players to be deduced from season winnings

The end of commissioner Jay Monahan

Meanwhile 7 players will bolt for LIV post the Tour Championship decimating the international presidents cup team

Safe to say this is not going down well with the rest of the tour players and a big divide between the elite players and rest is emerging

Think i'll be watching the European tour and the four majors from now on.

Aug 21, 2022 -- 11:06AM, zog wrote:

Think i'll be watching the European tour and the four majors from now on.

I wonder how many will join you. Betting will keep some of us here interested but I could understand fans switching off completely from either tour and just tuning in for the majors. We are meant to care about Rory and Tiger launching an indoor league on Monday nights now? I don't really understand the concept, is it basically professional Top Golf?

Less than a week after Tiger's gang of 20 met to save the PGA Tour, commissioner Monahan has held a press conference stating the majority of their demands will be met and implemented in the 2024 season - not sure any of this went through the player advisor committees and normal due diligence but when the big dogs bark and you have a weak commissioner normal protocols can be ignored.

This is the first counter punch from the PGA Tour after months on the back foot. Back in June at the Travelers Championship Monahan said the tour could not cope financially with LIV, talked about the morality and heritage of the tour that small field events were exhibitions and guaranteed money was anti competitive. The players have spoken and come up with a set of plans that look like they may have copied the LIV homework. Put simply we wan more money and it guaranteed (how the top 20 PIP guys getting in all the events is competitive is an interesting one).

On the face of it this looks good for the tour 20 events with $20 million dollar purse that the best players will all complete in. There are a number of unintended consequences. It creates a tour within a tour. If the top players all play in these 20 events that will effectively be their schedule for the year who exactly is going to be turning up for the other 28 events more than half the schedule?

Where is the money coming from? The more things come to light the clearer it is that Phil was right and the tour was sitting on huge sums of cash generated. Half the money is said to be coming from tour reserves with sponsors expected to pay $5 million dollars extra per event. It already costs in the region of $15 million dollars to sponsor a PGA tour event now in a tough financial climate you will need to find a further third. That may be doable for the big events but who is going to want to sponsor the second tier events at $15 million a pop when the field is a glorified Korn Terry field? The TV ratings have been falling for a number of years and for these lesser events will further tumble. The loss of sponsors and TV money will put huge strains financially on the tour - this will open the door for the private equity and venture capitalists to enter the fore.

There is effectively a tour within a tour. If you get in the elite 20 events it will be virtually impossible to lose your card given they are limited fields with double purses. For the rest of the tour more than half the membership you will be scrapping for survival with the deck of cards stacked against you. It is highly probable in the short to medium term we could see a PGA tour of 20 events plus the majors with the other events merged with the KF tour.

Over the pond the DP tour faces a whole host of problems. Their events are getting less world ranking points than the KF Tour which will see a further drain of talent not only to the PGA but also the KF Tour. Attracting sponsors for these events will become harder and harder.

The DP tour also face another challenge - next months flagship event currently has 18 LIV players in the field. Do the DP tour allow them to play and risk alienating the strategic alliance with the PGA Tour or ban them and face legal action like with the scottish open and significantly weaken the field?

Meanwhile LIV swings back into action next month with 5 events in two months before the launch of their league next year. 6 or 7 players from the Fed Ex cup are expected to defect in the forthcoming days.

What a mess the game is in. It is hard to see the game coming together in the short term whilst Monahan and Norman front the relative tours and a prolonged schism at the elite level now seems inevitable. If LIV play the long game their deep pockets allow then the PGA Tour may have overplayed their hand. Makes you wonder how differently things could have been had Monahan took the Sharks call a year ago rather than dismissing the threat.

Makes you wonder how differently things could have been had Monahan took the Sharks call a year ago rather than dismissing the threat.

You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.

not sure any of this went through the player advisor committees and normal due diligence but when the big dogs bark and you have a weak commissioner normal protocols can be ignored.

You say you're not sure but then assume that they didn't

that small field events were exhibitions

At no time did he say that.

Pointless going through the rest of your drivel---it's full of your biased assumptions and downright lies which will come as no surprise to anyone who's read your previous post.

therhino 26 Aug 22 10:35 
Makes you wonder how differently things could have been had Monahan took the Sharks call a year ago rather than dismissing the threat.

You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.

Monahan didn't even take the call at least Pelley met with them before jumping into bed with the PGA

JML 26 Aug 22 13:41 
not sure any of this went through the player advisor committees and normal due diligence but when the big dogs bark and you have a weak commissioner normal protocols can be ignored.

You say you're not sure but then assume that they didn't


In less than a week they have changed their plans these things usually take months or discussion. They can't even decide what the field size will be hardly seems a thought out plan with the support of all stakeholders.


that small field events were exhibitions

At no time did he say that.

Pointless going through the rest of your drivel---it's full of your biased assumptions and downright lies which will come as no surprise to anyone who's read your previous post.

BROOKLINE, Mass. – PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan described the Saudi-funded league that has signed up Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson and Bryson DeChambeau as a “series of exhibition matches” that spends billions of dollars on players without getting a return on its investment.

Monahan also said players paid an exorbitant amount of money would “have to be living under a rock” to not know they would be criticized for the source of the money. LIV Golf is backed by Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund.

“I would ask any player that has left, or any player that would ever consider leaving, ‘Have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour?’” Monahan said from Toronto on the CBS telecast of the RBC Canadian Open.

In less than a week they have changed their plans these things usually take months or discussion. They can't even decide what the field size will be hardly seems a thought out plan with the support of all stakeholders.

Provide a single example of something that took months of discussion or is this another example of you making things up as you go along.


Where did he say "that small field events were exhibitions" as you previously claimed?


It also seems that Tiger wasn't offered $700+million and that LIV golfers aren't allowed to talk
to the press without permission.

John Rahm shocked to find out in his post round interview that he now needs to play all 15 'elite events' and suggests he should have an exemption to be able to play some events in Europe.

Reporter: “Do you know something we don’t”.

Rahm: “pfft, me, no, you’re asking the wrong guy, if you wanna know about that stuff you know who are the 2 players you have to ask”.

Wait until he finds out he has to come running out into an arena high fiving Rory and Tiger on a Monday night to hit balls into a net with flashing lights and fireworks.

PGA Tour members will have to play 20 events next year - '12 elite' plus 3 regular events, 4 majors and the players between January and August.

For European players this will be a big ask especially if they are still required to play the four events in Europe.

JML

On June 22nd the PGA Tour announced its 2024 schedule this included 8 limited field events and said

Additionally, the TOUR is making room for up to three international, no-cut, limited-field events, taking the top 50 from the final FedExCup, and top performers from the fall. The format and other details of these events are under review by the Player Advisory Council.

Fast forward two months and the tour has now announced (one week after Tiger and his gang of 20 met) that there will be 12 limited field events and that players will need to play 20 events in a season including 17 with the best against the best (this was one of the demands from the Tiger gang meeting). Tiger and his gang know Monahan is in a weak position and are trying to flex their muscles and extract as much as possible but this is a cabal of the elite. The tour has a player advisory council who are there to represent ALL the members of the tour.

This has clearly been rushed through to try and prevent further defections. There is no clarity regarding the field sizes after push back from the majority of tour players who will not be in these fields. There is no mention of the 3 international events. Rahm clearly wasn't clear in his interview yesterday.

After the Tiger meeting it was said there was agreement amongst the group. 1 player who attended is said to have already signed up to defect to LIV with frantic attempts to persuade 3 others not to go to LIV.

The tour are going back to sponsors asking for additional money even though these sponsors have signed contracts.

The whole thing is a shambles.

How nice it must be for players on the PGA like Rahm to be able to speak with 100% freedom.

No need for permission or chaperons.

After the Tiger meeting it was said there was agreement amongst the group. 1 player who attended is said to have already signed up to defect to LIV with frantic attempts to persuade 3 others not to go to LIV.



Any link for that? Without knowing who said it-it's absolutely worthless.


You are one sad f*cker MW.

How many hours do you spend digging up this stuff?  Why exactly?  Do you think anything you write on here will actually influance anyone?

You've showed that anything you write has every chance of being untrue.

restricted events are not as exciting as the 100 plus fields.......all pga events should be minimum 100 players with a cut after 2 rounds..........the format of teh fed ex tour championship is crap........this head start ruins the event.

bdj---everone would like to see different things.

I'd like to see the end to the 5 hour rounds.
Leave the majors as they are but for all other tournaments-
2 balls only preferably with everyone starting from the first.

That should allow for at least 100 players most weeks.

I'm in two minds whether or not having the very best players playing each other too often is a good idea.

I do think that the PGA have over reacted to the LIV threat.

The PGA have lost a few big names but most of them were on the way down
and/or recovering from injury.
Even Smith has said that he's has a long term problem with his hip.

The LIV players for next year have been decided on so I'd wait to see
for even the slightest sign of success before panicking.

I'd expect viewing figures for the next couple of events to be well up on the pitiful numbers they've had so far
before falling away afterwards.

Such a sad state of affairs. The general crux of it is that the players these days are just no ggod under pressure. They dont want to have a putt to save their cards, they dont want the feeling of needing to pull off three birdies in a row to put food on thew table etc. Far more respect for the challenge tour golfers and even those on the europro tour. They are playing competitive sport as it should be played. the worlds elite golfers seemm to have lost their arris holes....

Wait until he finds out he has to come running out into an arena high fiving Rory and Tiger on a Monday night to hit balls into a net with flashing lights and fireworks.

Mighty Whites 2008 21 Aug 22 12:04 

Meanwhile 7 players will bolt for LIV post the Tour Championship decimating the international presidents cup team



Even managed to nab one of Tiger's gang!

Niemann a big loss, has thus far accomplished feck all of where his potential could take him, wonder if he'll regret this decision at any point down the road. Cam obviously the biggest coup yet.

Presidents Cup might as well be cancelled.

Deep down the PGA must be delighted with the result.

The best part of $2 billion spent and only one top 15 player lost.

And the list of the most unpopular players on the PGA has been decimated,
LIV have signed nearly all of them.

Back in the real world

12 of the last 24 major winners have gone to LIV.

Half of the PIP top 10 have gone to LIV along with a host of well known names.

8 of the top 25 in world rankings at the end of 2021 have gone to LIV.

Despite many not getting OWGR points for months 13 of the current top 50 have gone to LIV.

All this has been achieved and its been less than 3 months since the first event.

The PGA Tour have been forced to rip up their planned schedule twice, imitate LIV with a host of limited field events and have a large liability in the prize fund model moving forward.

Pleased you're also happy MW.

I was begining to think Greg Norman was a double agent
because having so little to show for 2 billion takes some doing.


We'll let the jury of the armchair golf fans decide.

The money is a drop in the Ocean for the PIF and won't be an issue.

The PGA Tour and their enhanced pay outs - now there is a whole host of financial headaches.

Ironically by trying to imitate and chase the money side the PGA Tour is in danger of destroying itself from the inside.

Back to you're old tricks.

Wild biased assumptions without a shread of evidence.

The PGA Tour has pumped huge sums of money into the new elite field events and is making the short fall up from its reserves. They need sponsors to pony up an extra $5 milllion dollars per event. The introduction of the elite events will weaken the fields of the other half of the tour events which cost $8 -$10 million per events Given they are really struggling to attract sponsors for the korn ferry tour it is questionable at best whether they will retain the sponsors of the Pebble Beach Pro am or Sanderson farms at that price which in turn will cause a further black hole in their finances.

There is no investment further down the pyramid. The KFT is struggling for sponsors and to maintain all its events. The tier below canada, latin america China (if it ever comes back) is a loss making stepping stone for pros. With the emergency of Liv and the Asian Tour international series which will next year have 15 events with purses of $2 - 3 million dollars per event and offer a direct route to LIV events there is suddenly a viable alternative for pros on these circuits and the DP world tour and a threat to the conveyor belt of talent.

It isn't only the elite level where LIV are reshaping the game

Back to you're old tricks.

Wild biased assumptions without a shread of evidence.

Mighty Whites 2008 21 Aug 22 12:04

Meanwhile 7 players will bolt for LIV post the Tour Championship decimating the international presidents cup team

Wild assumptions

Again more assumptions.

Do you understand the meaning of the word EVIDENCE.

Meanwhile 7 players will bolt for LIV post the Tour Championship decimating the international presidents cup team

Have you forgotten how to count on top of all you're other mental deficiencies.

a lot of big names have gone to LIV now.......smith, dusty, bryson, brooks.........theres no denying it......ive no idea where this is going to end up but if LIv had sense, they would go back to 4 rounds and scrap the team events, expand to 80 players, have a cut and get a TV deal.........the PGA tour is in serious trouble.

struggle to see how Brooks or Cam fall into the big name category... one cant keep fit for more than 5 mins, the other had red hot putter for a few weeks, which he badly needs with his lack of distance.

Your posts were kind of funny during The Open but claiming Cam ain't a big name now is rather daft. Him and Rory are the only guys anyone ever talks about these days.

Players and St Andrews win in the same year = best player in the world imo. May not be in 6 months but right now nobody is better.

Rhino... are you serious? Touch and go if he is even the best Aussie at present. When the putter goes cold, which it will, will be shown up for the poor ball striker he is coupled with lack of distance. I would say he wont win another major, but looks like thats a given with his move to LIV.

In terms of consistency with DJ having played so little Scheffler, Cam Smith, Rory, Xander and Cantlay are ahead of the rest.

Rory and Cam Smith have a bit of character as well which is what has elevated them to being the most talked about.

You could argue a case for any of the three being player of the year. My pick would be Scheffler 446 OWGR  this calendar year is well ahead of Cam 326 and Rory at 290. 4 wins, 2 seconds and a third (he also had two seconds at the tail end of last year which would strengthen his case if it was a wrap around season.

Asian Tour international series will hold a qualifying school event on US Soil.

Suspect that will fill up in next to no time with Asian Tour offering good money next year and a direct route to the LIV tour.

With no PGA I watched the LIV event last night and have to say I enjoyed it. It just goes to show a decent course and drama at the end goes a long way to making good viewing. The fact there are no adverts and essentially shot after shot is a plus. Felt for Westwood but leopards don't change their spots.

I wasn't a fan of the shot gun starts initially and am not sure in the early rounds but last night it added to the drama. Having 6 players with a chance to win finishing simultaneously added to the drama and provided some crazy swings in the odds for the tail end of a tournament. It was probably unique that so many had a chance at the end but added a dimension when considering who had the easier hole/s to play.

DJ is still a class act he might be down to number 20 in the world but along with Rory is still probably the best golfer in the world.

Mighty Whites 2008 31 Aug 22 18:57 
The PGA Tour has pumped huge sums of money into the new elite field events and is making the short fall up from its reserves. They need sponsors to pony up an extra $5 milllion dollars per event. The introduction of the elite events will weaken the fields of the other half of the tour events which cost $8 -$10 million per events Given they are really struggling to attract sponsors for the korn ferry tour it is questionable at best whether they will retain the sponsors of the Pebble Beach Pro am or Sanderson farms at that price which in turn will cause a further black hole in their finances.

And so it begins - Honda the first to pull the plug on the second tier events

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/11/17/pga-tour-honda-motors-end-longest-running-title-sponsorship-after-2023-honda-classic/?taid=6376903e757539000117bb8d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem+Manual&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

When are LIV announcing all their star signings for this year's events ?

tragic seeing golf destroyed by GREED, extremely rich golfers who are not happy with that, they want MORE...what a shower

Money wins

Rory and co will be scratching their heads tonight