Lexi Thompson 4 shot penalty

Agree with MW.  She marks to the side of the ball, and replaces virtually immediately in front of the marker and in a clearly different spot, not just a few millimetres away (otherwise I doubt anyone would have noticed). Strange thing to do by accident, strange thing to do on purpose for just a tap in.

Rules officials said they were only informed on the 7th hole but it seems likely that the viewer emailed the day before and it was only picked up the following day (public email address that probably gets loads of guff)

Rhino ive some sympathy for the 2 shots for signing for the wrong score card when she signed in good faith but the marking of the ball was blatently breaking the rules. She marked realigned and put it down no where near the original spot all in ten seconds its not like she marked and waited.

The question of when is the cut off point for rule infractions is one open to opinion but in this case the committee will have followed the rule. Personally I don't have a problem with the time scale of things. There seems a grey area between when the rules infraction was reported (apparently on the lpga fan feedback site) and when the committee picked up on it but ultimately she broke the rules. If she had replaced her ball properly then there wouldn't have been a problem.

yeh but the problem with being able to report something a day later is a players gameplan has been totally affected, how is that fair? say for example lexi neverfound out about this until the 18th tee and she had been playing for pars the last 5/6 holes protecting her lead, how is it then right to tell her shes in factlosing the tournment and needs birdies

But Mighty, the committee did not follow the rule. A viewer did. The committee apparently don't even watch. The idea of a sporting body relying on viewers for adjudication is ridiculous, then to state we didn't get to the e-mail until the 7th hole... FFS. If they read the e-mail AFTER Lexi putts out on 18 and they are presenting the trophy, what then?

Lexi wouldn't have that problem Grant if she marked her ball correctly which is one of the most common rules in golf

Apr 3, 2017 -- 1:24PM, therhino wrote:

But Mighty, the committee did not follow the rule. A viewer did. The committee apparently don't even watch. The idea of a sporting body relying on viewers for adjudication is ridiculous, then to state we didn't get to the e-mail until the 7th hole... FFS. If they read the e-mail AFTER Lexi putts out on 18 and they are presenting the trophy, what then?

agree rhino

Apr 3, 2017 -- 1:24PM, dlarssonf wrote:

Lexi wouldn't have that problem Grant if she marked her ball correctly which is one of the most common rules in golf

so ur ok for in future tournaments a viewer notices something in R1 and waits until said player is on the 72nd tee with a 1 shot lead and then reports it???

golf has become a fecking farce

I think if the trophy had been presented the result would have stood as with locke at the open.

The lpga don't seem to have been on the ball as ive read that the viewer reported during 3rd round coverage.

A similar thing happened with tiger when he hit the flag and rebounded into the water at the masters then someone questioned his subsequent drop and he was retrospectively punished after signing his card so there is president with the ruling.

It was her fault she didn't mark the ball properly and can't complain that it was spotted. The two shot additional penalty should be reviewed and scrapped going forward in the case of someone signing their card in good faith.

dlarssonf 03 Apr 17 13:08 

When do you decide whether the rule should be enforced?? When she marks it a foot away , two feet away?? She didn't place the ball back where it should have went , rule broken

Key question alright. Though we're talking an inch at most here, not feet obviously. They could have overlooked it if they wanted, it wasn't cut and dried that they had to issue a penalty, which is why they obviously took their time adjudicating it. And as I already stated, there is a precendent on the PGA Tour when Garcia accepted he misplaced his ball at Quail Hollow a couple of years ago and they still let him off.

Apr 3, 2017 -- 1:26PM, GRANTCKING wrote:

golf has become a fecking farce

Yep. Name another sport where a bloody e-mail is the defining moment.

so ur ok for in future tournaments a viewer notices something in R1 and waits until said player is on the 72nd tee with a 1 shot lead and then reports it???

what would be your opinion on the above if they had used the old leather wedge to improve their lie, deliberately improved their lie by moving something from behind the ball or dropped a ball down their trouser leg when looking for a lost ball?

Dont forget we had the issue with dj at the PGA grounding his club in the sand area on the 72nd hole. That wasn't spotted by his playing partners, referee, caddy or himself but rather by the television footage. Granted he hadn't signed his card but he was informed in the scores tent after he had holed out.

I remember Tiger's like it was yesterday Mighty. If that incident didn't happen I think we Aussies are still chasing our first green jacket. The difference there was, is not a shot was played by anyone before the ruling was made and his score was altered. That is a pretty significant difference in my opinion.

No different than a caddy  having to many clubs in a players bag

therhino • April 3, 2017 12:52 PM BST
ScratchGolf.co.uk‏ @robmcgarr  5h5 hours ago
Good news, everybody! I just emailed in and England are now in the quarter-final of the 2010 World Cup. #lexi #LexiThompson

I also emailed in and Ireland have now been awarded the 2010 World Cup thanks to the admission by French captain Thierry Henry ('Le Hand of God').

There is no way the offence justifies the penalty in this case; we know it won't happen but she should be at least joint winner in any form of equality - things like this will kill TV coverage of golf vis a vis the popularity of the sport itself

When she replaced the ball it wasn't even close to the original place. It looked like she just picked it up and moved it an inch closer to her (not the hole).

While I have sympathy for her, it wasn't like she picked the ball up, cleaned it then put the ball back in error, she just put the marker down, picked the ball up and moved it towards herself by an inch.

All very odd really.

This was blatant cheating. She was going to tap it in and saw the ball was lying in a small indentation. The only reason she then marked the ball was so she could move it out of the indentation when replacing it. Maybe she has done it before or maybe not. Well done to that viewer as if she had got away with it this time i am in no doubt she would have done it again.

You must have a helluva telly picture - I just looked at the video on the BBC website & didn't see the indentation you mention - a 4 shot penalty is extremely harsh imo & the severity of it far outweighs any crime

just been reading the posters on the beeb re the incident
i now feel,tho' i don't really want to,that the 're-placing' was to avoid an indent or spike mark and she was somewhat sneaky about it..hope that is not the case but a lot of ppl are convinced it was
the double penalty was just too harsh and they MUST end this retrospective from the next day back BS
let us NOT have this happen again,end of
they should enact this immediately

NORTH BERWICK • April 3, 2017 7:01 PM BST
This was blatant cheating

I'm with you on this NB, there was what I think was a small indentation and her actions display an attempt to consciously gain an unfair advantage, Well done to the tv person.

It is not a case of she may have done it again, she does it regularly.

end of day,couldn't they have someone review whole days play,that would sort it out

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED...

http://www.golfpunkhq.com/news/article/sabotage-

AND NOTE former Ryder Cup captain Bernard Gallacher told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that  "the LPGA had the power to dismiss that person (the TV viewer), they should have completely ignored it".

Apr 3, 2017 -- 7:32PM, trebor wrote:

It is not a case of she may have done it again, she does it regularly.

if she did it regularly one of her follow pros would have called her out on it, instead she had endless support from almost everyone

Racing Cert

Im a bloke, so unless YOU are that way inclined do not need to call me LUV! HHH....

Muppet!

Want a conspiracy theory, may well have been a fellow pro who had someone phone or email in. I don't believe you could play regularly with her and not notice it, I don't watch much woman's golf but noticed her do the same thing earlier in that round.

I'm ok with the initial 2 shot penalty but the further 2 shot penalty for signing for the wrong score is utterly crazy.

so it WAS you then..trebor

This thread has now gone to the ridiculous!!

Deary ****g me.

4 shot penalty when leading a major a day late and half way through her final round.FAIR? Give me a break!

Love to hear all you smug clowns if some of your hard earned was on in lets just say the Masters and say DJ is affected,a whole raft of different opinions then thats for bloody sure! Many on there high horse on here because were not invested and woke up to it this morning! Only a few were actually watching it unfold live and able to get a true reflection on events!

Fact is Golf is a huge loser again today and looks thoroughly STUPID,AGAIN....

Acknowledge the ****g problem talk to her but ffs let them play,Interfering nonsense...

And NOT in the spirit of the wonderful game they all talk of! DISGRACEFUL DECISION......

No matter how it is dressed up or explained!

Trebor/ Which Hole did she do it on mate???

Yes but Suzann made me do it!!

I remember Pod getting disqualified for not signing his card. 4 shots seems harsh , but they know the rules.

Her sponsors must be happy, they would not have got  half the publicity had she won.

I am not sure which hole as I was not really watching it, and when I first same the replay of 17 last night thought it must have been that hole, but unless they went off much earlier in the 3rd round than the last round it could not have been, because I went to bed about 1am, think they where around about the end of front 9?

Is that a bloke in drag presenting this program on C4 about Trumpy?? If it isnt boy is she ####

Fook me it is! Abi Austen,used to be a bloke in the British Army!Now clearly a female reporter!Nice one!

Trebor, not doubting you, if you say you thought you saw her do it earlier in the round, then I believe you. But that still doesn't prove she does it regularly and, as someone pointed out, you couldn't do such a thing regularly and not pick up a name for it. Someone will spot it sooner or later and it will get talked about, thats what golf is like.

Fair enough, change regularly too done it before, but I have never seen her play half a dozen holes other than watching the finish last night after she got the penalty.

It is not that uncommon a thing to happen on the tours, whenever you see a player having trouble replacing a ball it is often because they do not want to replace it in a small indentation, and to small for TV pics to pic up sometimes.

Got a golf ball in the house? try marking it and moving it as much as she did and it is too much not to notice, her only defence is that she stands to the side to mark it, but even then it difficult not to notice it I feel.

at the end of the day,her peers on tour WILL know whether it was an aberration or not

here's pod leading Abu Dhabi , DQ ,cost him £millions

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Bh-ZVAz48

It's wimmins golf.....................WHO CARES........

What I found odd was after she picked it up, there was no cleaning of the golf ball, even quickly with her fingers, the ball was just replaced immediately 1 inch closer to her.

She even went to tap it in, then changed her mind and marked it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSIXlwHRR7M

to anyone who hasn't seen it.

I dont think that's all that odd really, lots of players mark their ball close to the hole and replace it so that logo is in position they want it, or ball mark is in line with putter or stuff like that. It can be a bit annoying but i guess they're just being methodical old so and sos.

Does look a bit unusual alright the way she seems to pause before deciding to mark it. But there's nothing conclusive about that either way, only she can say why she took the action she did.

but the realigning of a mark such as the logo doesn't seem to be the motive by marking the ball.

the position of the logo has slightly changed but not significantly, and when lining up markings you do that from behind the ball to the target, she never did this. It was also done very quickly and the ball doesn't move in her hand for alignment reason.

So why did she mark the ball.

I am not saying she is guilty or innocent just that it does seem very very odd.

I agree its a valid question. But its one only she can answer, I think she will address it at some stage if she hasn't already.

I dont think you can say she was purposely moving it out of an indentation, as some people have claimed, you just cant tell that from the footage. Actually, what you can clearly see is a dimple in the green about six inches from her ball, closer to the hole, while the area around her ball and marker looks clean to the naked eye.

I firstly felt very sorry for her.

However, this is the best footage I can see and quite clearly there is an indentation in front of her ball; hence why she never tapped it in. She then moves the ball to the front of the indentation. The link below slows it down.

Somebody said she has form for this but surely that is only heresay.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2017/apr/03/is-this-a-joke-golfer-lexi-thompson-in-disbelief-after-four-stroke-penalty-video

Was there in play on here on this , if so how low did lexi trade

Mentioned on the Carnage thread

No one wants to see this happen especially when leading.
For the record always liked Thompson's tenacity but officials where borderline about DQ her.

Of more eyebrow raising concern was the
Lockeroom chatter among competitors,none of which will say a thing...publicly.. but you get the picture.
Put it to rest Thompson and mark it correctly(as per the rules).

Jedi Sophie,

Some people don't get humour and you are apparently one of them.

I was being condescending, you muppet.

And judging from your posts it is you that has issues with sexuality.

Hope you get better, luv.

Plenty of opinion on here without reference to the rules.
Rule 34 worth a look.
1b/4 worth a look by dint of the principle of prior knowledge it refers to.
In this case there is no penalty if the competitor did know he was in breach.
And yet lexi gets the 2 shot pen for signing the card even though she did not know she was in breach.
One area of complexity though is that we (mostly) play 18 hole comps the pros are playing 72.
Minefield.
My sympathy is with the rules officials.
They have been put in a difficult position. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Don't know what lexi was thinking. Brain fade, habit? Who knows?

Questions need to be asked about who at the LPGA was privy to the viewers email and involved in the decision to penalise her 4 shots as there was a wave of money to lay her at fairly high prices  in the time immediately before she was informed of the penalty.

Something stinks.

if you were going to move your ball slightly to avoid something on the green you could do it 100,s of times without drawing attention to it,if you do it as you arrive on the green and loads probably do,
you could have all sorts of marks on your ball,a putter with lines ,flashing lights and a spirit level,a caddy lying on the floor behind the ball linning you up and nothings said,golf is banana,s, theres umpteen officials with every group the easy answer is to get them to replace mark balls and any error is not down to the golfer or his caddy
golfs that ludicrous that you could lift clean and place within a scorcard length 30 times in a round and end up winning because someones moved a ball a mm,saw harrington win an open once when he missed the green a dozen times but with a nudge ,here and nudge there from the gallery the ball always came back onto or towards the green

I think the real problem here was that when she marked her ball she was not behind the ball she marked it from side on not lined up with the hole and it looks like the coin was maybe further behind the ball than normal when she remarks the ball she then seems to line it up with the hole (the ball is moved sideways). To me this was probably an optic confusion state

My sympathy is with the rules officials.
They have been put in a difficult position. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Disagree with this. If they chose to do nothing, no one would have ever known a thing. This debacle is entirely their own creation.

exactly rhino

the thing that annoys me is the 2 shot penalty for signing for a wrong score that she couldn't possibly have known about and after the Officials had accepted her score themselves

all markers are different sizes ,there must be 1000,s upon 1000,s of cases depending on how the markers placed and replaced that if not the length the angle of the putt is changed,some players do it that quick who no,s if there stealing a few mm,changing the line ever so slightly especially on the longer putts

afterb tigers antics over the years micko,s and fowlers this season its ridiculous to claim golfers are there own referees ,they bend the rules more than any other sportsmen

yes Mickleson's recent manipulation of the rules in the wgc event was ridiculous

No one would have known??
You've got to admit that isn't 100% true .... the e-mailer and anyone they contacted would have.
Minimal perhaps but accurate.

But I do think once accepted by the scorers the score should stand.
If indiscretions come to light after that then it would be the player alone who would take the flack.

The Rules Official who broke the news to Lexi on course said today ( I would not have been able to sleep that night if I did not carry out the ruling)

Says it all!

No way after scorecard accepted by same Rules Official previous night that they should be allowed to retrospectively punish her, and FOUR shots just absurd, even if TV pics caught her kicking it up the green 10 yds!

Rc- Not sure Humour and Condescending are entirely the same thing!

Dont need to be so touchy fella!

heard one the week before ,when euan corrected the person who,d emailed in,but how many times are people contacting the officials and are getting knocked back that we dont no about,there,ll be busybodys been forensic over every minute of coverage phoning in 10 times a tournament

no doubt its a severe ruling but  , if she deliberately replaced her ball  in the wrong place to suit herself  i have no sympathy as i hate cheats.i never saw it so i don't know  thats the case but some most people think she did it to avoid a spike mark , f thats the case she got what she deserved

its not just the ruling been severe but in the same tourney its possible it could benefit someone who,s hit it into 18 grandstands got 18 free drops,sank putts helped by markings on the ball,lined up by his caddy,etc,etc,
anyone remember tiger winning once when he hit 100 yds over the green down a chimmney into a pan of soup in the kitchen and gets a drop next to the green

Gonna e-mail the FA next time I see that useless twot Theo Walylcott in an England shirt get him subbed''''''''''''''''


Brainless WPGA

therhino    04 Apr 17 14:37 
My sympathy is with the rules officials.
They have been put in a difficult position. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Disagree with this. If they chose to do nothing, no one would have ever known a thing. This debacle is entirely their own creation.

My understanding is they didn't email in but put the comments on the fans page of the lpga site. I presume this is public and may have been seen by others. They couldn't chose to do nothing once they had been informed of a blatant rules breach which was backed up by the footage. At this point they had to follow the rules set down which they did correctly. You could question the time scale involved.

You can argue that the ruling is unfair that is subjective but it is the rule. The 2 shot penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard when the card was signed in good faith in my view should be scrapped but the officials had little choice here.

I am surprised that Thompson has not received more criticism for her actions. She clearly goes to tap it in the decides to mark and within a 5 second period picks it up and puts it down in a different position in pretty much one move. The more I see it the more I think she cheated - moving the ball to gain an advantage.

Leading the tourney, a major, on 2nd last hole of 3rd round,well aware of Tv cameras following her every move, as she is in lead 3rd round,Major ,17th green.

You seriously think that she thought I AM GOING TO MOVE THIS BALL 6mm to make my 12 inch putt easier???

Unbelievable...where was the advantage for a start??? This nonsense about a pimple on green! She made a simple mistake, lost concentration,brain fade,whatever.

She is now being accused of all sorts, instead of being a Major champion again.

Fair enough if she marked wrongly a TWO shot penalty if that is the rules but they the OFFICIALS accepted her bloody scorecard and to go back and change it way over a day later is just a joke. Golf a laughing stock again! Laughing stock!

Sophie, Luv.
Just a bit of banter ...  a bit more subtle than calling somebody a muppet. ... but if that's the language you understand ... whatever.

jedi the footage is clear. She goes to tap in decides to mark and all in the space of a matter of seconds picks it up and puts it down in a different spot.

Only she knows why she did that but it was clearly a breach of the rules.

LOL

Clearly language you also understand seen as you reciprocated!!

Theres only one reason why you mark the ball , lift it 3 inches, dont clean it and put it back in the wrong position, all within about 5 seconds. Bang to rights i think..

I dont think many people are arguing about that North Berwick.

Imo she definitely didn't replace the ball in the right place-only she really knows the reason she did what she did. She may genuinely have not realized what she had done. Her playing partners and match official didn't see anything untoward. However, it is the way in which it was dealt with that is ridiculous-especially the time delay and the ludicrous (albeit correct) extra penalty for not signing the card properly, despite it being accepted on the day.

Golf really does have to sort out its rules.

Why they have to wait until 2019 to introduce the new rules that most golfers think are reasonable is bizarre.

Why not say they shouldn't be allowed to pick up the ball on the green as it just delays the speed of the game when marking and cleaning etc. Obviously sometimes there will be mud/sand on the ball or perhaps another player's ball may be on his or her line - as for the mud it is just an unfortunate aspect of the game occasionally & will equal itself out for everyone over time & if another player is on the line why not let that player putt out even if they are closer.

If nothing else may reduce the slowness & time spent on the green by players & avoids the problem of the other day

You can debate the two stroke penalty for signing the wrong card but she simply at best broke the rules of golf and at worst cheated , only she will know this.  It's as clear as day though she did not mark the ball correctly and I find it hard to believe that she didn't know what she was doing

micko agrees with me in a press conference,he says he no,s lots of golfers who move the ball 2,3,4 inches to avoid marks on the green when,marking or replacing the ball, without their playing partners saying anything or calling them out
so much for it been the cleanest ,most honest sport out there,can of worms openned

players will be wetting themselves this week .close ups everywhere watching players mark or replace the ball,expect carnage again

mickleson has stepped in with a shovel

A number of players on the PGA Tour are "intentionally loose" in marking their ball, according to three-time Masters champion Phil Mickelson.

imo,
the idea that players who use never used stances,line of sight,etc,etc to gain an advantage 300 yds from the hole,arnt going tp pinch the odd inch here and there on a green 30,40,50 ft from the holes is laughable imo,especialy those not on the live tv pics,fighting for the cut,their card,careers etc,
this incident and micko have just put it out there

Mickelson wont endear himself to his colleagues with these comments.

Especially with his "interpretation" of the rules in Mexico

its just the madness of golf rarely they seem obcessed with anything that gets you closer to the hole ,but standing water on greens, water in bunkers around greens,sprinkle heads around greens etc,etc,and you can get free drops backwards ,sidewards which maybe further away but greatly change the angle etc and make the shot far easier

The might need to introduce something like the referee uses in snooker to mark the ball when he picks it up to clean it.
Too many players throw a coin somewhere near the ball and pick it up.
And they need to put a time limit on when a player can be penalised, like once the next round starts previous rounds are history.

Well done Phil Mickelson. Nice to see someone with the bollux to tell it how it really is.

Its a massive decision to call out another player for cheating. If one of Thompsons playing partners had complained that she cheated when marking the ball and by chance there was no TV coverage of the incident then the player complaining is in real trouble. It is one persons word against another and, just like most whistleblowers , they will be ostracised by other players and the golf authorities for being a troublemaker and everyone will feel sorry for the cheat.

more to the point..her fellow pros(NO double entendres here guys) know the SP
if this were not to be an aberration(and it was pretty brazen not a tiny 'mistaken' fraction)
just wonder what their attitude towards her from hereonin will be
not so much on the course where it will be business as usual
but off of it and if it's pretty icy and negative
whether it will affect her as she seems quite a cheery girl
personally even tho' i now feel she trangressed wittingly
i don't wish her any ill
and would hope she learns and grows from this without any undue rancour

Philip speaking out in this manner after his antics/shenanigans/cheating? earlier in the season is absolutely astounding to me!!

If he wasnt cheating he was bullying/intimidating at best, and some of the capers he indulged in had many many viewers/commentators thorougly embarrassed!!

Difference is he is thee most popular golfer in US!!No one had the balls to call him out, now here he is calling out others..Unbelievable!!

Far far worse than remarking your ball incorrectly by 6mm on a 12 inch putt..

more like 12 inches on a 6mm putt

you,ll never no
but when the rules official approached her do you think deep down she had an idea what it was about before she was told,wonder if there was any locker room talk the night before and on the range before the final round,she didnt seem shocked and just shouted 4 stroke penalty to her caddie on the pics i saw

Mickleson is popular with the media and fans he seems to get along the younger guys but it wasn't so long ago he was one of the most unpopular out there. He didn't get the nickname figjam for nothing.

Did she have an idea what it was about before she was told

No.

What an absolute fiasco.  This is no way to run a major sport.  When is a round actually completed and the score confirmed as being final? So, what happens if someone emails in the day after a tournament has finished to say they spotted the winner breaching the rules during their final round?  The sport of golf reached a low with the Dustin Johnson affair at the US Open last year but it has plumbed new depths now.  The people who run the game need to act very quickly before we have another disaster.

The round was completed but not the competition.. much like other sports which play four quarters.

At the end of the day she got caught..... and dems de rules.

Apr 6, 2017 -- 9:41AM, RacingCert wrote:

The round was completed but not the competition.. much like other sports which play four quarters.At the end of the day she got caught..... and dems de rules.

Have you ever seen a touchdown in the 3rd quarter be overturned in the 4th quarter?

gentlemanjohn:Did she have an idea what it was about before she was told    No

mr meagi:Did she have an idea what it was about before she was told   Yes

It you have no TV licence, do you shiver when the door bell rings.
And then the tears start...........Guilty.

Point taken, Rhino, but golf is different.
The emphasis is on players to police themselves unlike other sports where the culture is different
A bit out of left field here but you could compare it with a thief only being prosecuted if he gets caught in the act.
Which puts cheating at golf on the same level as committing a crime.
Either way it's all daft ... all they are doing is knocking a ball around a field.

However if you are betting on it you have to accept that the rules are applied as they stand .. which they were.
No doubt though the rules will change because of this.

Starting(?) to ramble now but one last thought (it may already have been) mentioned. Scrutiny should be equal across the field, which it isn't because tv focuses on the leaders.

Nothing to see here....move on ffs

She's got a good PR team.  Deflecting the fact that it looks like she clearly instinctively cheated (albeit that it gave her a miniscule advantage) to turning it into a story about golf's old fashioned rules and administration.  She's paying for the fact that her parents never drummed it out of her as a kid and there is justice in that.  It's karma for the majority of honest kids and adults, who play against opponents who instinctively cheat.

rose invented a stance he wouldnt have used to get a drop away from a sprinkler head last night [ karma he dropped a shot ].but in this day and age it cant be beyond the witt of courses to either invented a grass cover or place sprinkler heads away from where the ball is likely to land

ttt
That time of the month again