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20 Sep 15 09:09
Date Joined: 05 Oct 11
| Topic/replies: 14,350 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
Been carried all week by Hull and now this.

Language terrible as well.

If the Captain has anything about her she should concede her singles match.
Pause Switch to Standard View Suzanne Pettersen - Disgrace To Golf
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Report Aladdin Sane September 20, 2015 9:20 AM BST
She doesn't even seem to think she's done anything wrong.  Shameful.  She's certainly ensured how she'll be remembered in the history of the game..
Report FatherMaguire September 20, 2015 9:30 AM BST
Atrocious - captain should have stepped in, simply had to be a gimme once Europes players and caddies started walking off - got to give them a half here
Report frames September 20, 2015 9:32 AM BST
What happened ?
Report frames September 20, 2015 9:33 AM BST
Read other thread.
Report Wallflower September 20, 2015 9:36 AM BST
correct - in my mind whether it was 1ft, 3ft, 4ft is irrelevant - once the Europeans walked away it was tacit acknowledgement of a concession.

Play a bit of team golf myself, nice one though, could keep it in the back burner for a critical momentCool
Report Aladdin Sane September 20, 2015 10:13 AM BST
You might be able to add Carin Koch to the title of this thread.  The word "disgrace" may be a tad harsh, but seems she had the opportunity to
right a wrong and chose not to.  What on earth is her closing speech going to be should the Europeans win?
Report differentdrum September 20, 2015 10:23 AM BST
Yes, the whole incident has cast a cloud over a top class event. The closing ceremony is going to be very difficult.

I don't think 'disgrace' is too harsh because this is something that just doesn't and shouldn't have happened. I can't see any excuses at all. If the Europeans can't see that Pettersen has made a complete fool of herself then something is badly wrong. She had the opportunity to write the wrong and any apology at a later date will just be meaningless. Hopefully, it will be her last involvement.
Report nellie1970 September 20, 2015 10:29 AM BST
not many americans will turn up for her big charity event next year.they will all be busy.
Report Aladdin Sane September 20, 2015 10:32 AM BST
Not many Americans might not turn up for the closing ceremony of THIS event!
Report Jack_Kray September 20, 2015 11:10 AM BST
There goes Petteresen's future captaincy.
Report geordie1956 September 20, 2015 11:23 AM BST
simply proves that boorish behaviour exists in all sports & destroys any spirit of sportsmanship
Report the bloob September 20, 2015 11:26 AM BST
can you imagine what it's going to be like if this finishes 14 to 14?
Report trebor September 20, 2015 12:08 PM BST
The American should not have picked the ball up, many times I have had the situation where my opponent has walked away when I have been left a tap in, but I will always ask if it is conceded or tap it in. I will also tell my opponent their putt is given no matter the length, after all it is your decision not theirs as to weather the putt is conceded or not.

Pettersen is getting a lot of stick for this and I have not seen the interviews but at what distance of putt would Pettersons actions seem correct and the American's taking the p1ss is thinking it should be conceded?

My action from each prospective would be, American; I have made a stupid mistake and walk to the next tee, not moan about thinking it was given. European / Pettersen; I would so that's, no problem and play the 18th all square, but as I said above there has to be a distance where that action would change.
Report geordie1956 September 20, 2015 12:21 PM BST
simple remedy; you putt out at every hole as in stroke play
Report frames September 20, 2015 12:25 PM BST
Pettersson 3 down.
Report handtorofe September 20, 2015 12:45 PM BST
Shocking attitude from Petterson and what a role model for youngsters coming into golf.
Report September 20, 2015 2:04 PM BST
You make me laugh if Seve had done what Suzanne did  he would have been a hero
Report the bloob September 20, 2015 2:07 PM BST
good point there, but I don't think any of the men would be so naïve to make the mistake that Lee made in the first place. Seve used to cough on player's backswings and that was called gamesmanship
Report 1st time poster September 20, 2015 2:19 PM BST
GOLF is either a pro game or an amateur game they need to make their mind and get rid of all these lovely gestures from years ago,its a weekly thing on the circut people phoning in about what they have or havnt seen every match has a reff let him reff it and take away any input from the players
Report lfc1971 September 20, 2015 2:31 PM BST
Europeans have a long history of charmless behaviour in the Rhyder cup. Seve was one of the most guilty added to an inability to view anything in a rational manner...thwe US were often startled and bemused at
the strange thought processes of the europeans
Report Swardean September 20, 2015 2:40 PM BST
Yes but it expected of the red blooded latinos.   The ice cool Scandinavians are usually a different breed
Report September 20, 2015 2:51 PM BST
Europeans have a long history of charmless behaviour at the Ryder cup are you havin a laugh

Do you watch Golf up to 9/11 the Americans behaviour at the Ryder cup was a disgrace on more than one occasion
Report the bloob September 20, 2015 2:53 PM BST
in 1999 the Americans even had their wives treading on Olazabal's line of his putt on 17, and some of them were wearing heels
Report the bloob September 20, 2015 2:54 PM BST
anybody remember the 'War on the Shore'?
Report lfc1971 September 20, 2015 3:02 PM BST
The European fans also a dreadful rabble, especially the British and Irish, remember sitting in a stand watchin and it was like being surrounded by a group of chimpanzees...appalling mob.
Report the bloob September 20, 2015 3:09 PM BST
I don't think European fans can ever be compared in an unfavourable light compared to the Americans, in the Kiawah Island match I remember the crowd kicking Hale Irwin's ball back into play on 18 in that infamous match. Plus all the Monty-baiting, etc.
Report lfc1971 September 20, 2015 3:21 PM BST
I'll give a small example of the wierdness of the way some of the europeans think. It was in the British open so can be magnified a few times for the Ryder cup. Seve and Tom Watson going out for the final round, last pair. Seve spots Watson coming to the first tee wearing a light blue jumper and immediately his face darkens and even much latert he stops Watson and asks what does he think he is he trying to intimadate and anger him?..

Watson wasn't to know, how could he? that Ballesterous wore a blue jersey on the final day and thought Watson had done it deliberately to gain advantage!....the Americans learnt to tread carefully with the europeans.
Report dave1357 September 20, 2015 3:46 PM BST
what year was that lfc?

..expecting no reply, of course..
Report Loanwolf September 20, 2015 4:11 PM BST
Lets be charitable and regard it as a spur of the moment decision.It happens  Fortunately the right result in the end
Report Loanwolf September 20, 2015 4:11 PM BST
Lets be charitable and regard it as a spur of the moment decision.It happens  Fortunately the right result in the end
Report lfc1971 September 20, 2015 4:42 PM BST
dave1357 it was the 83 US open.
Report September 20, 2015 4:55 PM BST
Here is the weirdness.  American golfers dressing like there going to war

100 people some in high heels running on someone's line

Some **** shouting mashed potato and get in the hole
Report dave1357 September 20, 2015 5:29 PM BST

Sep 20, 2015 -- 4:42PM, lfc1971 wrote:

dave1357 it was the 83 US open.

You said "British Open".

Did they both take off their blue jerseys on the first tee?

Report the swede September 20, 2015 7:45 PM BST
My take on it:
The ruling was the right one. But the european should have done something in the spirit of the game. Half the match or let her put it.
You play top professional golf for 12 years. Top 10 in the world for many years. In 20 years most people will only remember the 17th hole in that match. Sorry for Suzann but she got it way wrong, and Europe lost the match right there.

The talk among the europeans on the 18 th green after that match was were very intense. As far as I heard on the TV Koch, Sörenstam and Sunnesson were all against Suzann but she stood firm.
Report xmoneyx September 20, 2015 8:00 PM BST

here's the incident ,hull guilty alsoSilly
Report boring_bastrd September 20, 2015 8:44 PM BST
pretty lowCry
Report Jack_Kray September 20, 2015 9:18 PM BST
Can we officially blame Pettersen for losing Europe the cup yet? Not only firing up the Yanks, but what about the negative effect on her own team mates? Most of them were as flat as a pancake in the singles, Charlie Hull was a shadow of the previous sessions, and Petteresen herself was awful.

No way of knowing what would have happened anyway, but you have to think the controversy was worth at least the half point Europe lost by.

'Poll' - if Pettersengate never happened, and Europe went into the singles with a 3 point lead instead of 4, do you think they would have won?
Report GRANTCKING September 20, 2015 9:26 PM BST
charley hull got outplayed in the singles, simple
Report GRANTCKING September 20, 2015 9:26 PM BST
didnt like the crocodile tears from her either
Report Jack_Kray September 20, 2015 9:27 PM BST
Anyway, this makes it 1-1 in Solheim Cup sportsmanship, so the Yanks can't overly complain.

Annika Sorenstam holed a 25 foot chip in 2000, to halve a hole, but the yanks made her replay it (and miss)due to her opponent, Kelly Robbins, belatedly realising she should have played first, and Sorenstam had played out of turn.

Ironic that Annika was a vice captain today who came in for some criticism about Pettersen's actions.
Report Jack_Kray September 20, 2015 9:36 PM BST
@GRANTCKING ' I wouldn't say they were croc tears, she was genuinely upset, just a young lass who loves the game and plays with a bounce in her step.

Being embroiled in a controversy, through no fault of her own, must have affected her. Her senior partner put her in the spotlight with insinuations of sportsmanship involved, and she clearly found it difficult to cope with, hence the tears.
Report johnnythebull September 20, 2015 9:38 PM BST
well put J_K..think she's a bit chavvy but no side to her unlike the c*nt she was paired with
Report GoBallistic September 20, 2015 9:40 PM BST
Why is Hull blameless? If the putt wasn't conceded, why is she heading off for the 18th tee?  At best it's disrespectful / lack of etiquette not to watch your opponents finish the hole
Report GRANTCKING September 20, 2015 9:44 PM BST

Sep 20, 2015 -- 9:40PM, GoBallistic wrote:

Why is Hull blameless? If the putt wasn't conceded, why is she heading off for the 18th tee?

Report johnnythebull September 20, 2015 9:46 PM BST
think as far as she was aware it was going to be conceded as a fait accompli b4 her baitch playing partner stuck her odious,underhand oar in
think she was less than impressed with the norwegian if truth be told
don't think it's just on the LPGA she's going to be persona non grata
Report Roger The Butler September 20, 2015 11:19 PM BST
Hull not blameless.

When Pettersen did her thing, that was Hull's cue to say "I walked off, my fault, come on, let's get on with the game all square", not go into hiding and leave Pettersen to wreak havoc.

But I agree she is far less to blame than Pettersen, though she has a tongue in her head and should have used it to put things right.
Report Jack_Kray September 20, 2015 11:44 PM BST
Roger - Hull is half the age of Pettersen, just a teenager, and walked off assuming the putt would be conceded by her senior partner, and was just as shocked by the incident as Alison Lee. Both young girls were in tears.

Hull is completely and utterly exonerated from any wrongdoing, and if anything, should be on the receiving end of sympathy for having her afternoon singles fcked up by the earlier incident.
Report Roger The Butler September 20, 2015 11:51 PM BST
I agree with your first point but not your second. As senior partner Pettersen should definitely have known better and led by example.

But even a younger partner has input and the chance to right the wrong. She was stood on the green with Pettersen when the discussion was going on. Is quite capable of telling her partner and the official she was walking and it should be conceded.

Certainly less culpable than Pettersen and Koch but she should have spoken up. And I'm not trying to kick her as I do like her, but do think she should have stepped in.
Report trebor September 21, 2015 12:01 AM BST
Except that there was 'no wrong to right' if Petterson wants to see the put that's up to her.
Report Jack_Kray September 21, 2015 12:16 AM BST
Roger - would you as a teenager, have tried to overrule a senior partner, twice your age, in a work related incident?

19 years old, she's barely out of school - you think she should have questioned someone with 7 or 8 Solheim Cup appearances?

Imagine if Pettersen was right, and the outspoken teenager had tried to overrule her - her name would be mud. It's become a lose/lose situation for Hull, and she doesn't deserve it. let's hope it doesn't scar her.
Report GRANTCKING September 21, 2015 1:09 AM BST
jack charley is viewed as europes best player, her age makes no difference, she had a chance to make it right, she didnt and then the crocodile tears and somehow shes the victim, absolutley delighted usa got up off the canvas and beat them
Report gentlemanjohn September 21, 2015 1:30 AM BST
It's got nothing at all to do with Charley Hull, that was a mere sideshow. Unfortunately for Pettersen, she's probably cost her team a Solheim Cup and that's already too harsh a penalty for the calamitous mistake she made, feel terribly sorry for her. Next Europe captain going to the States already probably hoping she doesn't make the team.
Report Clerkmore September 21, 2015 8:13 AM BST
Pettersen was a disgrace and Koch compounded the error by not overruling her afterwards. Well done, USA.
Report blanco September 21, 2015 10:37 AM BST
It looked to me from what looked like a heated Euro team discussion after the incident that they wanted to give the Americans a half point but Pettersen was adamant that they shouldn't.Annika Sorenstam clearly didn't agree with what happened.
Koch then decided to publicly back her player rather than throwing her under the bus.
I don't think Charley Hull is blameless either.
She was adamant in her press conference that she wasn't walking off the green,that she was actually walking over to Pettersen to discuss whether to concede the putt or not which having watched the footage again this morning is a load of rubbish.I also don't think the incident affected her play in the singles.Kerr was just too good.
Anyway,the Euros got what they deserved in the end.
Report xmoneyx September 21, 2015 10:59 AM BST
Report gentlemanjohn September 21, 2015 12:45 PM BST
That's a good and very heartfelt apology. Case closed.
Report differentdrum September 21, 2015 2:02 PM BST
Case closed?????

Oh so this is the real Pettersen rather than the one who messed up yesterday and had ample chance to put things right but didn't, in fact she ridiculously tried to justify herself.

She probably sat down with her advisors, realised she had nowhere else to go and this was the best she could do.

As for whether Charley Hull was to blame. Yes, to a limited extent but the whole Team should take a certain amount of responsibility. None of them spoke out against Pettersen even though you would hope they could all see that she had made a complete fool of herself. The Captain appeared to put one player above the Team and that simply wasn't good enough. It was that shirking of her responsibility to the game that overshadowed anything else she did over the three days.
Report dave1357 September 21, 2015 3:38 PM BST
ffs it was the thicko american who picked up her ball when her putt hadn't been conceded. As soon as Pettersen pointed this out to the ref, there was no other decision than loss of hole.

I've see Bubba Watson in a cactus bush telling a ref that he wanted to hit his shot backwards further into the bush to get relief and not a word said.  I've seen Tiger Woods illegally drop and admitting he did so to get an advantage and not get dq'd and ppl saying he's a victim for getting a penalty shot.

Shocking witch hunt imo
Report gentlemanjohn September 21, 2015 4:11 PM BST
I don't know what is supposed to be meant by the "real Pettersen". From all i've read, she's a well-respected and popular member of the women's golf tour, but I doubt many of us here follow it week in week out, so maybe you know better and are on to something.

Don't know if I'd go so far as to say witch hunt, but from the moment Laura Davies started to vent yesterday, I was already thinking the whole reaction was OTT and then it just got worse. But that's the nature of these monster matchplay events when the win or lose at all costs mentality is mixed with the so-called honour and spirit of the game. Everything is hyped beyond proportion from the build-up to the selection of captains, vice captains, vice vice captains, water carriers, ball washers and on and on and on. So it's simply inevitable that when an incident like this happens the reaction is going to be ludicrously over the top as well. Not saying that's a bad thing, as I enjoy them as much as anyone else, but the vilification of Pettersen is extreme and unfair. She made a mistake and apologised and that should be the end of it.
Report geordie1956 September 21, 2015 4:21 PM BST
Apologies now being offered by Pettersen; probably suggested by her management team as they realise she plies her trade predominantly in the USA & a damage limitation exercise required.

Her apologists seem to be suggesting that she was wronged because she followed the rules but the "spirit" of the game surely should have taken precedence & the moral high ground would have gone in her favour - very poor captaincy from Koch who should have conceded the 18th to ensure a drawn match.

Simply proves golf is no better or worse than any other sport (too much money involved) where rules are pushed as far as they can be & arguments subsequently ensue
Report johnnythebull September 21, 2015 10:29 PM BST
how convenient she has suddenly had a Damascene epiphany
wonder whether this contrived mea culpa has anything to do with the fact she plys her trade on the other side of the pond
and trying to mitigate the 'reception' she will still undoubtedly & deservedly get over there
cunning,surly,overrated,nasty piece of work
Report Lion King September 21, 2015 11:06 PM BST
Koch now needs to make her apology. She had a chance at the closing ceremony but chose to ignore the incident which was very poor imo. She has shown a complete lack of class.

I would also say there is something lacking in Pettersens statement. The words are there but I don't feel any sincerity.
Report maleuk01. September 22, 2015 12:20 AM BST
Pettersen was in the wrong as before they teed off on the 18th should have agreed the half on the prev hole. Purely in the spirit of the game. (also poor sportsmanship to start walking off).

But why the feck did Alison Lee pick it up? Pure stupidity, unless she has been told "that's good" or "pick it up" then she should have just knocked it in, even if the Europeans are on the next tee. Look up at 1 of the Europeans before picking it up to get the go ahead. So she must take part of the responsibility.

Playing golf for years in a friendly sunday 4 ball or matchplay events at the club don't think ive ever seen a player pick up a ball without being told "its good".
Report xmoneyx September 22, 2015 12:41 AM BST
ever lick the opponents balls?
Report dave1357 September 22, 2015 10:01 AM BST
Hull "walking off" is completely and utterly irrelevant.  Lee said she picked up because she thought she heard someone saying the putt was good not because anyone was moving.

Peddersen has apologised because she forced an advantage that was unmerited.  lol at people still detracting her who obviously have never played to win in any activity.
Report GoBallistic September 22, 2015 10:52 AM BST
No, its absolutely relevant and the whole point.  If they hadn't walked off there would be nothing to argue about.  When you don't give a putt you say nothing and stand still.  At the very least walking off while your opponent is still playing the hole is v poor etiquette.  Note that when Pettersen is asked about the walking off in an interview afterwards she point-blank refuses to discuss it.  And then a day later Hull lies about it
Report dave1357 September 22, 2015 11:12 AM BST
Its utterly and completely irrelevant to Lee's action of picking up the ball and the referee's decision to penalise her. 

It is relevant to the "bad sportsmanship" aspect of the incident (there is virtually no chance she would have missed the putt) for which Peddersen has apologised.
Report dave1357 September 22, 2015 11:15 AM BST
At the very least walking off while your opponent is still playing the hole is v poor etiquette

Happens all the time on the men's tour, annoys me but seen it happen plenty of times.

end derail
Report gentlemanjohn September 22, 2015 12:06 PM BST
As has been mentioned, we don't know exactly what Hull was thinking so it's guesswork. My guess is she walked towards Pettersen to discuss whether the putt would be conceded. I think we can all accept it was a gimme, with just that little percentage doubt for Hull not to be able to concede without consulting. And you only need to study the reactions of Lee's playing partner and caddy to understand what a monumental blunder she committed when scooping her ball up.

As for etiquette, I can never help noticing how many players continue to practise their putting strokes while in the eyeline of a player putting on the green. I've never seen anyone complain, but it always looks off-putting to me. I hate to single Sergio out, because it's always HIM, but he instantly strikes me as a serial offender.
Report Roger The Butler September 22, 2015 9:12 PM BST
To be fair, Sergio needs all the putting practice he can get. Leave him alone.
Report MadVlad September 24, 2015 8:47 PM BST
Upon reflection now that things have calmed down I would like to say that yep I still "would" and so would most of you ! Cool
Report the bloob September 24, 2015 11:07 PM BST
I don't think enough has been made of how stupid Lee was in just picking up the ball. She didn't look up for a reaction from her opponents and simply picked the ball up, I'm sure she could sense Hull and caddies walking off but you always look up for some kind of acknowledgement. I'm pretty sure she would have holed it but it wasn't a 100% nailed-on gimme, we've all seen how stingy the players can be in these matches

if somebody did that to me in a match I would be pretty cheesed off, if it was a borderline gimme I would say 'what the hell are you doing' and would probably take the hole. If it was 6 inches I wouldn't be too bothered
Report Knight Rider September 26, 2015 12:46 AM BST
Tricky one.  Obviously the American is at fault for picking up without a clear "that's good".  But still feel like Europe should have conceded.  It's a gentleman's game and it's pretty obvious that the girl did not pick up to gain an advantage, but because she genuinely thought it was good because the European player & caddie strode off purposefully.  I mean it's a professional with a tap in ffs.

I understand that everyone wants to win but sportsmanship is more important, especially in golf.  Interesting that the two highest profile incidents like this have been from the ladies!!  Make of that what you will. Happy
Report dave1357 September 26, 2015 7:14 PM BST
but because she genuinely thought it was good because the European player & caddie strode off purposefully.

No she didn't.  She said that she picked up because she heard someone say the putt was good.  Her partner at the side of the green saw both Euro players and what they were doing and shouted "don't pick up".  So the "strode off" is a red herring.
Report Knight Rider September 27, 2015 2:44 PM BST
I wouldn't say it's a red herring Dave.  Surely it plays a massive part; it looked for all the world like Hull and the caddies were done with the hole.

Lack of experience shown from the 19-year-old European and 20-year-old American and the veteran in the group had the chance to ensure a sporting resolution, just give her the putt and move to 18.  Who wants to win a match like that?  Maybe that's why I'm not a tour pro and she is! Laugh
Report Catch Me ifyoucan August 18, 2017 2:50 PM BST
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