St Andrews-not fit to host major championships

£80 to get in + £15 parking

guys give the course a chance

20mph now causing chaos

fri

28-35 mph

Jul 16, 2015 -- 6:41PM, xmoneyx wrote:

£80 to get in + £15 parking

yeh total joke, I saw the prices and nearly pissed myself laughing, £80to get down one side for the fairwa

pitch and putt, for par this afternoon

I'm not mad on the course myself. But am actually more disenchanted with the lottery it always seems to be here.

At all of the other Majors, you can be confident the best player has won. Starting to become too much of a lottery at St. Andrews.

not too many flukey winners on the list ......


2010 Louis Oosthuizen - St Andrews
2005 Tiger Woods - St Andrews
2000 Tiger Woods - St Andrews
1995 John Daly - St Andrews
1990 Nick Faldo - St Andrews
1984 Seve Ballesteros -St Andrews
1978 Jack Nicklaus - St Andrews
1970 Jack Nicklaus - St Andrews 283
1964 Tony Lema - St Andrews 279
1960 Kel Nagle - St Andrews 278
1957 Bobby Locke - St Andrews 279
1955 Peter Thomson - St Andrews 281
1946 Sam Snead - St Andrews 290

Jul 16, 2015 -- 8:16PM, donny osmond wrote:

not too many flukey winners on the list ......2010 Louis Oosthuizen - St Andrews 2005 Tiger Woods - St Andrews2000 Tiger Woods - St Andrews 1995 John Daly - St Andrews 1990 Nick Faldo - St Andrews 1984 Seve Ballesteros -St Andrews 1978 Jack Nicklaus - St Andrews 1970 Jack Nicklaus - St Andrews 283 1964 Tony Lema - St Andrews 279 1960 Kel Nagle - St Andrews 278 1957 Bobby Locke - St Andrews 279 1955 Peter Thomson - St Andrews 281 1946 Sam Snead - St Andrews 290

Think we're wasting our time Donny,i wonder if half these moaners have ever played golf.

156 golfers playing all want to win the Open all want to do it at St Andrews "the home of golf" whether the philistines like it or not.

£80 to get in £15 parking and they arrived in their thousands get over it.

probably the course i know best from the roster of  major courses, so great for betting

par may well be somewhere near 69.5 , but make par 68 get them struggling to beat par,
and all of a sudden, without changing the course , the muppets are happy

Donny. Oosthuizen was massively favored by the draw. I know he won by some distance, but some players simply couldn't have won with their draw. Not guaranteed just yet, but may well be the same here.

I understand it's part and parcel of the Open, but it makes me prefer the likes of the Masters tbh.

And who suggested anyone was a 'flukey' winner anyway? You are missing my point entirely tbh.

the masters is a limited field, is a great format, on a great course, but the 4 majors set out to test all
aspects of a players game

augusta and st andrews form is well tied together

strange you could like one and knock t'other

I'm knocking the fact your chances are hugely influenced by why what time you tee off, regardless of how well you play. And whilst that is often the case in any Open, St Andrews appears to be the worst offender.

And I say this as a huge fan of the Open. In fact today was the first day I've not been there for nearly 20 years. I've been to every open venue, and strictly just looking at the courses, St Andrews just isn't one of my favourites. It's better than the likes of Hoylake, which is easily the worst in my opinion, but a world away from the likes of Turnberry, Muirfield, Carnoustie.

I think the form ties in so well because they are the two most prestigious events in golf, and the cream rises to the top.

cream rises to the top if correctly tested

st andrews is not the best course for spectators, but deffo a must visit once for last round

Agree it's terrible for viewing, but there is definitely an aura about the place. But I have an issue with just how easy it is when it's benign and just how hard it can be when it's bad.

incan totally understand the opposite viewpoint, just offering an opinion.

I've never found The Open courses to be as photogenic as others. (And I don't mean to denegrade the lovely buildings!!)

Tv can't pick up the challenge of the wind nor truly highlight the difficult contours of the greens.

The 18th is as dull a hole as you'll see. Easiest tee shot in golf and then it's really just a question of birdie or par unless you drop down into the valley of sin.

The Road Hole is my favourite by a distance because of the unique tee shot, the pot bunker and of course the road at the back.

Putting is everything and with the huge greens there's little sense of intimacy for the fan either present or on tv.

its harder than it looks. i played the course last week and shot an 82. even though im the reigning us open and masters champion. its the only tournament ive never won on tiger woods pga tour 12.

you beat me to it donny.

Faldo, Woods, Nicklaus, seve st Andrews has produced some great champions.

There have been some low winning scores but they are usually runaway wins.

The 18th gets some stick but its a birdie hole and not an easy one some do some dont. The course is much maligned but the finish from 13 is good not many are under par

Chances are those players would have won Opens at another venue played every five years though? I don't see them being Champs as some kind of proof the course is special myself.

would be nice if the fairways were less than a 100 yards wide(a 24 handicapper could hit them blindfolded) and if somehow you managed to miss a fairway theres not rough.without wind its a pitch and putt. amateurs shooting 67/68   is total b99ll99x.the place needs a bomb on it.at least when its windy theres something more than watching  dustbin driving  5 par 4s.350 nyard par 4s , fcg hellwhat nonsense.

If you have an interest in the history of the game I can see why you might want to visit St Andrews and play the course, but don't try to make out it is a good golf course.
As for "a must visit once for last round"? I would not waste a day of my life playing it.

In full knowledge of the purist wrath to come...Of course, aptly for the home of golf, there is a element of asking yourselves what you want from the future of the sport? This is one of four events that draws in crowds from outside the golfing fraternity and one of a dwindling number of sporting events showcased on free to air tv in the UK. Is it more engaging to a newcomer to the sport to watch the best of the best make a few birdies occasionally or to watch them par par par par par par par double bogey par bogey bogey par bogey bogey must not initiate the 'full' Monty collapse?! For anyone who has played the sport each should be/are impressive and exciting and maybe the latter even moreso...but golf is in the shop window with the majors and if they were all the former where would the love and excitement of the next generation come from?

Was Seve's 1979 -1 win at Royal Lythm & St Annes great golf...yes but his -11 victory at the same course following THAT final round 65 was something that instilled a lifelong love of golf in me...it was certainly more exciting than...(despite a much later developed love for)... Faldo's 18 hole grind-o-rama the year prior.


So if you want new generations to be enthralled by golf and secure its future at some point you're going to have to allow your top athletes to actually get it in the hole!

Also...if St Andrews is so easy why is the leaderboard showing -7? Who left 11 birdies sitting out there? What a bunch of losers...why, anyone on this forum could shoot at least -18 a round on this poor excuse for a course, couldn't they?!




PS:Also playing golf in Britain anywhere where your performance isn't affected by the weather just isn't British, what!

what a joke! you think 30 under?  i would lay that bet all day long.  you obviously don't play and don't punt golf.

TTT

harino, if it had been  weather like this for 4 days dustin johson would average 66 so theres 24 under, he may well shoot 64 today getting him to 18 under but then hed probably  only shoot a modrrate 68 tomorrow. but this is a farce.duval cant hit a ball , hasn't made an  open cut for 6 years and breezed round in 5 undrr, the course is a total khazi,i promised myself not to bet next vtime its at st andrwes(the home of putting) so without a financial interest  I can not watch (itll be on skyadverts by then anyhow) but I do have a financial interest in this event so ill watch the last day incase I nee to make other bets/lays.as for now im going out, cant waste a sunny day watching this b0000lll000x, (1st day ive ever missed watching the open

and one of a dwindling number of sporting events showcased on free to air tv in the UK.


Johnny, not only is the tv licence a fair few quid, it's compulsory..

Looks like an amateur is going to lead. I suspect that says more about the course than the player. Hardly likely to be leading on a proper test. Finale hole is ridiculous. If someone has a one-stroke advantage it isn't worth playing. You would need a total mishit to even contemplate dropping a shot.

yeah, 20 or so players in with a shout tomorrow

dreadful stuff

Well after a day of perfect conditions we're only 18 strokes off of -30, of course someone will nail that tomorrow on such an easy course.

Injera, fair point, although the second half somewhat negates the sentiment - if you take the licence as read it's still free to air compared to the extra subscription services taking over. Meaning it still has the potential to draw in audiences that wouldn't seek out extra pay subscription services. Obviously that's just been fkd by the rights award - something I believe will be to the detriment of the sport.


Also, are there tickets for when Loanwolf explains to DJ it's only pitch and putt?!

- 10 will win tomorrow

25 mph winds

Hmm Sickoflayinwinners if it had been like this for 4 days DJ would have averaged 75 which is +12, that's only a 36 shot swing on your calculations...perhaps he should ask Duval for some tips?!

Seems odd to just cherry pick the amateur.  Pretty strong leaderboard other than him compared to some majors.  In all likelihood St Andrews will produce another quality winner.

And as for Dunne he's only 22, who knows what sort of career the lad will go on to have?  Oosthuizen was 450/1 last time but is not considered a freak winner in hindsight.

I consider Ooost a bit of a freak winner to be honest , very talented but completely spineless imo

Why they playing on a Monday was it weather problems not even watched the open this year

Yes slip,saturday wiped out by weather

Looks set up now for Spiffy to bag his 3rd major he plays with no fear,but if the wind does blow Padraig very much comes into it which would be nice
Got almost everybody in top 20 except Spieth,Garcia and Rose wot to do wot to do.

course taken some stick this week but it is set up for a thrilling finish

Donny, u and me been supporting the course all week against the barrage of abuse from the majority on here set up for a classic finish tomorrow esp if wind gets up.

St Andrews is what golf is all about been there many times conditions same for all players Nicklaus Watson seve faldo woods all respect it of course it should hold major championships

St Andrews is awful

Jul 19, 2015 -- 8:42PM, dlarssonf wrote:

St Andrews is awful

In what way is St Andrews offal in your opinion,do please expand ??

The Jubilee and New Course are both better tests of golf. They may not have the romanticism of the Old course but they are better in every way.

They need to make the greens smaller, it's taking the short game out of golf. Players putting from 50 yards away when it's chip and run distance. There's obviously a lot of romance to the place though

Jul 19, 2015 -- 8:47PM, charwell. wrote:

The Jubilee and New Course are both better tests of golf. They may not have the romanticism of the Old course but they are better in every way.

They may, esp the New, be tougher at times than the Old but in terms of layout,stature in the game and aesthetically there is no question the Old course is by far and away the best.

I haven't done romance since I got married in St Andrews 40plus years ago the place is golf but I take your point the new and jubilee are both fine courses and good tests of golf but a major championship is about so much more

Read through the threads I have offered my reasons as to why I think it's awful don't take it personally

I love St Andrews,i love the game of golf and i unequivocally love the Old course as an Open Championship venue,we agree to differ no harm in that.

Don't take it personaly everyone is entitled to their opinion but I just disagree probably because I was brought up on links golf in Ireland and spent 4 wonderful years at university in St Andrews but I respect your opinion and your rational perhaps I am just nostalgic as I now live and play golf in Spain god but I miss rain

Parcels u are a lucky sod to be living and playing golf in Spain,i used to have a villa in Rojales 1/2 hour south of Alicante airport.
Loved it but had to sell as i was hardly ever there in the end.

I admire the R&A for some of the pin positions. The 17th for round 2 was something out of The January Medal.(protect the green for the summer)

I predict for round 4 largely the flags will be tucked away for straightforward pars but very tough birdies as 2010.

GL all!



.

Sorry you had to sell hope you did not lose on it I live not far fromrojales in orihuela Costa yes I know how lucky I am to be living the dream I am an overnight success and it only took 40 years to do it I am off to bed now I have been in golf club watching open all day and its an hour later here but I still miss the rain

Carnoustie is a far better course for spectators and a much tougher test for the pros.

I agree on both counts.

However, Carnoustie plays far more heathland than links imo. The 11th is a forgettable hole.

Jul 19, 2015 -- 9:29PM, parcels18 wrote:

Sorry you had to sell hope you did not lose on it I live not far fromrojales in orihuela Costa yes I know how lucky I am to be living the dream I am an overnight success and it only took 40 years to do it I am off to bed now I have been in golf club watching open all day and its an hour later here but I still miss the rain

No i bought in 1999 sold 2013 didn't lose didn't make much either used to enjoy a game at La Marquesa,Quesada just down the road from our place.
Played a few in ur area names escape me but i loved the area wife wasn't that in love with it though.
I liked jogging along Guardamar beach happy days indeed,all the best my friend.

any golf fan not looking forward to tomorrows shootout ?

puppy love donny

Should be great!

A wonderful final day - will all the haters please ask BF to ban them from the forum to save them from any future embarrassing posts.

An exciting finish doesn't mean the course is the winner. The US Open was an exciting finish but it didn't make the greens any good.

-15 as the winner in a major is too low. The birdie avalanche is not for me, as tense as the final back 9 was.

What a finish old course is unique was in a sweat until the end if spieth had won would have been on egg and chips until christmas

great finish, and a masters champion wins at st andrews,

has that ever happened before ?

Zach Johnson was my smallest green of the 3 left in play off,but well done to him he played a great final round and is a worthy champion.

spieth 270 at augusta , 275 at chambers bay and 274 at st andrews

better get these easy courses off the major rota

Jul 20, 2015 -- 8:53PM, donny osmond wrote:

spieth 270 at augusta , 275 at chambers bay and 274 at st andrewsbetter get these easy courses off the major rota

Well said Donny hope all the moaners take note.

Louis "i love this place and can't wait for the Open to come back here again" Oosthuizen off Radio 5 live just now,that'll do me.

Some of us love to see the winning score about level par. Makes our hacking seem somewhat better.

Some players favour tough courses as they are not birdie machines, Rose, Janzen etc.

1st, 10th and 18th is all too easy, I think 18th is a good short par 4 but first and 10th just bad holes.

the old course stood up well.

The last 6 are a good finish. The course is what it is the best player that week wins.

Considering the course was playing soft the winning score wasn't to low. Imagine what they would have scored had it been firey and they had to play on saturday

play them well they are birdie holes incase of many didn't manage that.

That was exciting golf. The course played her part.


I do hope "the course is rubbish waa waa waa.." isn't just Betfairese for "all my picks have missed the widest fairways in golf?"

the best open ever imo. cheers.

one of the most exciting finishes ever

Irish
Spanish
Aus
S African
American

Left out Britain

how could anyone moan about st.andrews? then compere it to the dreadful place the yanks decided to stage their open, sh1t and sugar surely

Catch Me ifyoucan  • July 20, 2015 12:07 AM BST 
COMPOSITE COURSE of the Old, New and Jubilee Courses IS THE WAY TO GO

Some like the place others hate it, I am with the later, and as I have said before the main thing that St Andrews has going for it is it's history. but of course that is the very thing that stops it evolving, they are not going to change something that Old Tom Morris did to the course 150 years ago, they will put in the odd new championship tee, but that's about all, they won't even grow the ruff to stop the pro's from driving onto other fairways, heaven forbid put in a strategic bunker or two.

Basically their hands are tied, they can't do anything much too the course without losing parts of their history, that's ok but they should not expect to play the modern game on a course that was built for the game of the past, or at least not once every 5 years.

For me once every 10 years and that's really only because of the history.

So to the people who love this course, what is it that is good about it that I don't get? telling people that don't like it that they are talking through their pocket, that it always produces good winners, that Augusta and St Andrews produce similar winners and that it produced a good finish are all cop outs. To me it just does not test all aspects of a players game, except for about 3 holes. What is good about the course?

which aspect of a players game is not tested ?

I like the course but I don't see why it gets the Open every 5 years.

part of history

What I don't get is if you don't love St Andrews, it means you have to hate it. It has some glaring weaknesses and I wished the R&A would address them, but overall it's a good venue and its history and uniqueness is a decent selling point. Nearly all the problems are with the front 9, but the back 9 is a good test and comparable with most of its rival venues. I don't love it, but I certainly don't hate it either, would be fourth or fifth on my list of Open courses and happy enough with the five-year visitations.

Hate it may be a bit strong, I just don't look forward to the Open being there, in fact I feel that way about the last 3 majors of this season.

I don't feel it tests a players driving or chipping, and that it is silly for players to be able to play fairways other than the intended, also most of that could be stopped simply by growing the ruff. no spectators allowed in the middle of the course, that ruff could get really serious!!

I also feel a bit for the Old Course, modern balls and clubs have created the problem, I would much prefer it if the ball could only travel the same distance as it did 50 years ago, would also make it easier to compare records, shame for the guy in the Irish to lose his record of 70 years was it?

If the ball travelled the same as it did 50 years ago I would maybe forgive the double greens and see it as different rather than a bit silly.

Trebor the last pga at whistling straights was one of the best majors.

St Andrews held up well considering it was so soft. All links courses are get able if the wind doesn't blow.

The point about the rough is a good one should be much more penal

A big part of the problem is that I am not a fan of links golf, even tho I was brought up on a inland links style course, which is a course I still like but I prefer the courses with trees and water, always like it when the only hole you can see is the one you are playing.

As I typed that it reminded me of another point about being tested with the driver, I always considered myself a straight driver of the ball, at the links course I started on the ruff was brutal, venturing into it in the summer was a shot dropped at best on average. Work took me to a new area and a new course with trees! the 4th hole tho had trees all down the left side but none to worry about on the right except for one lone tree about 40 yards from the tee, big wide fairway but I could never hit it, as although I could make the ball finish in the middle of a fairway I played with a strong draw and that lone tree stopped me starting the ball off on the line I needed.

Back to my problem with links golf is that I just find it too bland, even after watching the golf this week and once every year from St Andrews there are still holes I know little about 2nd to 4th and 13th to 16th other than the 14th is a par 5 the rest are so similar to me.

Same with Hoylake, I know I have played 4 rounds of golf around that course and seen 2 Opens there in recent years, the only hole I remember is the 1st (3rd in Opens) and that is because it is a sharp dogleg around the practice ground, all the rest forgotten within days of the Open finishing.

I invited comments about what is good about St Andrews, none yet, I do have one or two but not gonna do the job for the opposition

when the ball landed on the fairways the camera shots were too close in ,so you couldn't get a definition of any hole

The front nine at St Andrews is awful.  The 17th is a brilliant hole that's it.  The 18th is one of the worst finishing holes anywhere. You are not tested off the tee at all, and teeing off on the 72nd hole of a major championship should require you to hit a really good shot or be punished.  You could fcking use a putter on that tee off shot ffs.   Most of the penal bunkers are no longer in play either.

Just because somebody doesn't like the course doesn't mean the run in can't be exciting or they are talking through their pockets. In my opinion not that it means anything , it's awful , and I hate the fact that a major championship is held here.  Thankfully their is four other world class courses on the open rota but St Andrews would be bottom of any list for me

I agree with Mighty Whites and was quite bemused by the wispy rough if they were really worried about the course being defenceless all they had to do was grow it up a bit.

On another point some players hit it miles off course, literally in some cases and werent OOB eg Paul Dunne on the second

The finish at St Andrews 13 - 17 is a good test. 18 is a hole where you need to try and birdie. Plenty came down the last needing a 3 to win or tie yet only zach with a bomb and louis managed it.

The front nine is a birdie fest.

It is not the walkover people say last year at Hoylake the winning score was lower. Hoylake also hosted the Cheshire Strokeplay lots of players from scratch to plus 4 played think the cut was 3.6 for the 150 man field and over 4 days only 5 people broke 305 and 290 won.

If St Andrews had more penal rough, switched a few bunkers it would be a decent test especially if it was firmer with a 15 - 25 mph breeze.

Lol sewter being on another course and still in bounds was an interesting one. Day hit on the eden course later in the round as well.

dlarssonf • July 21, 2015 8:15 PM BST
  The 18th is one of the worst finishing holes anywhere. You are not tested off the tee at all, and teeing off on the 72nd hole of a major championship should require you to hit a really good shot or be punished. 

Its a par 3.5.  Some finishing holes are 4.5s  The point of the hole is making a 3 to win.  A routine par 4 where birdies a a rarity wouldn't give anything like the excitement.  If you can't have a very tough par 4 where pars or bogeys are the order of the day, a very easy one is the best alternative.

Willett deliberately played the 3rd fairway of the Eden rather than risk the bunkers on the 12th as well

But with the 18th if you have a 2 shot lead you are very unlikely to lose, you would not feel so safe with a 2 shot lead if the 17th was the last hole.

Surely a big part of the attraction of golf both playing and watching is the different challenges thrown up by each course and the difference the weather makes if you want uniform courses and playing conditions buy a computer game

next time other course will be o/b

St. Andrews gives you a dolly mixture of holes

Which other course l always liked dolly mixtures maybe that's why none of my teeth are real

Jul 21, 2015 -- 9:49PM, parcels18 wrote:

Which other course l always liked dolly mixtures maybe that's why none of my teeth are real

I do agree with some posters rough needs to be more severe and perhaps some bunkers either need to be added or moved but old course is sill a public course enjoyed by many thousands eachy

I think the 18th is ok as  finishing hole.

It is probably easier to par a difficult hole than birdie an easy one.

Trebor if you were two clear playing 17 then it is relatively easy to play it to get a five. Smash it down two knock it to the front of the green chip up and take your chances. Obviously you risk the other player getting a 3 but personally id rather play 17 with a two shot lead than 18.

I would just like to see the option of using the 2nd fairway taken away and make the ruff far worse, so they have to go for the fairway or risk the lay up in a much tighter area and further back on the 17th fairway,

Actually I would be really sadistic and stop the fairway about 330yards from the tee and put in 100 yards of ruff, so you would have a really difficult 2nd if you had played too safe from the tee

Jul 21, 2015 -- 10:02PM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:

I think the 18th is ok as  finishing hole.It is probably easier to par a difficult hole than birdie an easy one. Trebor if you were two clear playing 17 then it is relatively easy to play it to get a five. Smash it down two knock it to the front of the green chip up and take your chances. Obviously you risk the other player getting a 3 but personally id rather play 17 with a two shot lead than 18.

Oh to be 2 clear at 17th everything is easy on web different at old course

course is still set up for good drives to set up birdie chances, but only if you then hit a decent second

for a course that faldo reckoned was par 67 to him back in prime, and they hit it 50-60 yards past him now
then 64 best score last week even in benign conditions with all them easy holes shows that some have treated
it lightly and paid the price

i love the place because a decent drive sets up a birdie, but catch wrong half of fairway and hit bunker
then you cant hit green for 2 and need to think how best to save par

multiply by 6/7 easy holes and the chance is there to be spectacular, but you then need to get it home,
and dont forget 18 is a doddle if your head isnt fried

so many holes where 2 shots can ebb and flow


interesting about the rough, but i dont remember really bad rough up there, but that may be unfair anyway
given you can go wide of it and hit next fairway as faldo showed

i'm pleased there is a rota and would love to see some irish courses on the rota but if st andrews
crops up every 5 or 6 years im still more than happy,

spieth 270 at augusta , 275 at chambers bay , 274 at st andrews and 271 at whistling straits

better get these easy courses off the major rota