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I have just had huge issues with Ladblokes about the settlement of a bet. The bet was for a golfer each way who finished T4th with two other players. There is a dead heat involved. The bet was for £100 at 66/1. The correct settlement should see a return of £1166.67.
To put some context to it. I went to collect the returns on Tuesday evening. I was at first told the bet was a loser. When i questioned this the lady phoned up customer service. She came back with a number that was 50% of what the bet should have been settled. (ie £583.33) I said that was incorrect but please can she phone back and that I would be back in 30 mins to collect the correct winnings. When i returned she said to phone customer services.
Having spoken to customer services on Wednesday I was assured that the correct amount was £583.33. I said I know that it is wrong please can you look at it again. When she came back she suggested that Ladblokes only pay the top 4 on golf. I said prior to the tournament which is when the bet was placed it has been top 5 for several years. I was then cut off when i questioned this.
I phoned back today to chase the issue up and they remain absolutely adamant that they only pay on the top 4 places on golf. This maybe the case once a tournament starts but the bet was placed the day before the event started. This has been through to various levels of management at ladblokes and they are utterly convinced they are correct.
I now have to take the issue to IBAS to get the bet settled correctly. What is doubly embarrassing is that I had already told her that I had an identical bet at a Cowals settled correctly and with no fuss.
What it makes me wonder is how many bets there are out there where people just assume that the bookie is correct with the payout. Firstly, it was a loser and then a dead heat wrong by 50%. It is nothing short of theft. It is beyond comprehension how they can get away with it.
To put some context to it. I went to collect the returns on Tuesday evening. I was at first told the bet was a loser. When i questioned this the lady phoned up customer service. She came back with a number that was 50% of what the bet should have been settled. (ie £583.33) I said that was incorrect but please can she phone back and that I would be back in 30 mins to collect the correct winnings. When i returned she said to phone customer services.
Having spoken to customer services on Wednesday I was assured that the correct amount was £583.33. I said I know that it is wrong please can you look at it again. When she came back she suggested that Ladblokes only pay the top 4 on golf. I said prior to the tournament which is when the bet was placed it has been top 5 for several years. I was then cut off when i questioned this.
I phoned back today to chase the issue up and they remain absolutely adamant that they only pay on the top 4 places on golf. This maybe the case once a tournament starts but the bet was placed the day before the event started. This has been through to various levels of management at ladblokes and they are utterly convinced they are correct.
I now have to take the issue to IBAS to get the bet settled correctly. What is doubly embarrassing is that I had already told her that I had an identical bet at a Cowals settled correctly and with no fuss.
What it makes me wonder is how many bets there are out there where people just assume that the bookie is correct with the payout. Firstly, it was a loser and then a dead heat wrong by 50%. It is nothing short of theft. It is beyond comprehension how they can get away with it.
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call them back and say even now they are offering top 5 on this weeks golf so it obviously isnt top 4
3 golfers he said, i worked it out same return has he thinks it should be
3 players tied for 4th place.
I tried to explain to them but they just kept saying they were right and that it had gone through various levels of management.
Dead heats can be tricky and i could understand that an error maybe made with it. However, once the issue has been escalated surely show some professionalism to try and sort it correctly. If i did not know better i would have probably accepted their response.
I tried to explain to them but they just kept saying they were right and that it had gone through various levels of management.
Dead heats can be tricky and i could understand that an error maybe made with it. However, once the issue has been escalated surely show some professionalism to try and sort it correctly. If i did not know better i would have probably accepted their response.
well its deffo top 5, so i don't know what their issue is. like i said they are still offering top 5 on this weeks tourney
could somebody work this out for me im useless with deat heats etc.. £10 each way bet on a golfer at 20/1 who finished tied fourth with two other players ?? it was 6 places with paddy in the valspar last week
I bet on the golf often with lads and it is always top 5.
sometimes you get a customer services person who doesnt understand betting
they insist they have consulted management when clearly they havnt....
its often best to ring back on the freephone number they advertise to take bets
they then have an incentive to sort it out quickly
when you are obviously correct you will , in the end, get correct payout
what happens to others who dont understand settlement ?.... they get fleeced
my dad recently got overpaid by baldyfred, he was humming and hahing about
taking it back, i told him it just makes up for past mistakes against him, and others
they insist they have consulted management when clearly they havnt....
its often best to ring back on the freephone number they advertise to take bets
they then have an incentive to sort it out quickly
when you are obviously correct you will , in the end, get correct payout
what happens to others who dont understand settlement ?.... they get fleeced
my dad recently got overpaid by baldyfred, he was humming and hahing about
taking it back, i told him it just makes up for past mistakes against him, and others
Donny,
I have phoned them up 4 times in the last 2 days and they are adamant they are correct. The lady told me to take it to IBAS!! What she obviously doesn't know is that in a previous job I had at times to deal with IBAS cases if it involved the sports I was in charge of. They are a complete pain in the arse. We would obviously not have let it get this far.
I am trying an alternative route. Lets see what that brings.
I have phoned them up 4 times in the last 2 days and they are adamant they are correct. The lady told me to take it to IBAS!! What she obviously doesn't know is that in a previous job I had at times to deal with IBAS cases if it involved the sports I was in charge of. They are a complete pain in the arse. We would obviously not have let it get this far.
I am trying an alternative route. Lets see what that brings.
Yeah shame you didn't have it on the net as it correctly states the 5 places on the internet slip and works out the payout based on that. They are known to make mistakes a fair bit.
good luck tom
its annoying , but they usually get it right when its pointed out to them
somebody seems to be being awkward here
its annoying , but they usually get it right when its pointed out to them
somebody seems to be being awkward here
Yeah i think its a mentality amongst the firm to try and argue the toss more and hope the customer gives up. Happens on a lot of issues with them
Hi Tom, just read your post , it's not clear wether you bet 100 each way, total 200 or 50 each way total 100.
The bet would be settled 2/3 stakes( 3players for 2place) to the full place odds 16.5\1.
Therefore Labcrooks correct if your bet 50 each way and double that if 100 each way
Hope this helps.
P.S all companies bet to a min of 5 places per tourney.
The bet would be settled 2/3 stakes( 3players for 2place) to the full place odds 16.5\1.
Therefore Labcrooks correct if your bet 50 each way and double that if 100 each way
Hope this helps.
P.S all companies bet to a min of 5 places per tourney.
£100 each way at 66/1 , 2/3 place is as claimed £1166.67 . Obviously half that is the Lads figure . Somewhere along the line there is no argument , getting there though can be frustrating . The rights or wrongs depend on the initial bet figure .
Infuriating stuff Tom, and as you rightly say the sad part of this story is that 90% of punters would just walk out of the shop accepting that the winnings quoted by Ladbrokes are correct. Amazing that in this day and age there isn't more stringent regulation of these charlatans. Good luck in your quest to get your money.
could somebody work this out for me im useless with deat heats etc.. £10 each way bet on a golfer at 20/1 who finished tied fourth with two other players ?? it was 6 places with paddy in the valspar last week
Over2.5,...I assume it was Luke Donald you had backed. You get paid in full, €60. 6 places. Tied 4th with two others means he was fully inside the top 6. No dead heats, no diluted return.
Mengmeng,....where in the name of Jesus did you come up with the 28.75/57.50? Obviously they are related totals,.... but related to what??
Tom, it really is beyond belief that you have not been paid yet. As has been said here, its become commonplace to have to explain a bet to those behind the counter, but surely when you take it further there is someone with some semblance of cop on. Though with this crowd, nothing would surprise. It took me 38 days after they restricted my betting, to withdraw my balance to an account I had used on numerous occasions. The absolute fuc*ing idiots I spoke to where beyond comprehension.
Best of Luck with it. You sound like you have a whole lot more patience than me!!
Over2.5,...I assume it was Luke Donald you had backed. You get paid in full, €60. 6 places. Tied 4th with two others means he was fully inside the top 6. No dead heats, no diluted return.
Mengmeng,....where in the name of Jesus did you come up with the 28.75/57.50? Obviously they are related totals,.... but related to what??
Tom, it really is beyond belief that you have not been paid yet. As has been said here, its become commonplace to have to explain a bet to those behind the counter, but surely when you take it further there is someone with some semblance of cop on. Though with this crowd, nothing would surprise. It took me 38 days after they restricted my betting, to withdraw my balance to an account I had used on numerous occasions. The absolute fuc*ing idiots I spoke to where beyond comprehension.
Best of Luck with it. You sound like you have a whole lot more patience than me!!
yeah my bad......was doing 20 as in 19/1, my head is still recovering...
Who was the golfer? Obviously not Donald as he was 20/1 before the tournament, so could only have been Garrigus (who I think was much bigger) or MacKenzie. Also, when did you place the bet? This firm bet in running from the start of PGA tournaments, at which point the EW terms change to 4 places, so if your bet was placed after the start of the tournament, place terms will be top 4. The start time for the Valspar Championship was 11:40 UK time on 13 March, very early for a PGA event because of the current 4 hour time difference. I have many golf bets with this firm and they always settle bets correctly. It seems very unlikely to me that they have settled it incorrectly. Furthermore the firm's head office now insist that all non-football sports bets of this sort of size are put through their automated call-over system, not on a written slip, which should guarantee correct settlement. Assuming that you have the printed slip from the call-0over system, check the EW terms and timing of the bet on your slip. If you come back and say that you had the bet on a handwritten slip, I will not believe you as such bets just don't get accepted any more.
If you have a case, which will be determined by the timing and EW terms on the slip, don't waste your time with IBAS, which is incompetent and bookmaker-funded, but take the case to your local small claims court after first informing the firm's management that you propose to do this, but if you say you will do this, you must follow through.
If you have a case, which will be determined by the timing and EW terms on the slip, don't waste your time with IBAS, which is incompetent and bookmaker-funded, but take the case to your local small claims court after first informing the firm's management that you propose to do this, but if you say you will do this, you must follow through.
tom has posted on here for years, i have little problem accepting his word
he stated in his first post that the bet was placed the day before play started
he stated in his first post that the bet was placed the day before play started
If they only play 4 places and three players tied for fourth I would be interested to know why they are prepared to settle your bet at 1/2 stakes not at a 1/3. Either way they are settling it wrong.
Forget that I'VE GOT MY HEAD UP MY ARSE THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!!
Tom - if you see this, let us know the date and time of the bet on the slip and the EW terms stated on the automated call-over slip assuming you have one. I can give you the email address of the Chief Executive and Head of Customer Service for the firm in question. If you have a case they will fix it very quickly. There is no doubt that, assuming this was a normal PGA or European Tour event (I assume the bet was for the Valspar Championship), the EW terms are Top 5. I assume, by the way, that your bet was not in the Trophee Hassan, the European Tour event in the same week, where three golfers did tie for 5th, though had that been the case the correct settlement would be even less than you say you were offered.
Wessex,
I have no reason to lie regarding this issue. The slip was hand written because it was showing as a different price in the shop and on the screens to the price within the Lads system. This was sent off for authorisation and this was accepted after a phone call. The bet was placed on the Wed evening and was a normal PGA Tour event. (Top 5 - I am very aware of when the place terms change etc) The player in question was Mackenzie at 66/1. I nearly always try and get them to put it into the system to try and avoid this ridiculous incompetence. The other time you have to hand write the bets is when the bet is larger than the maximum stakes allowed on their systems. This then goes through for authorisation although I have noticed more and more recently that they are not willing to take more than the maximum the machine will allow. It really depends which shop you are in.
So I actually had resolution to the issue today. After two more phone calls to customer services I eventually found someone who actually agreed with the settlement number I thought it to be. With that being the case I went to the shop again. I was originally quoted a figure in the £700's which almost made me lose my cool. Having been told repeatedly that the issue has already been through to customer services and they could do nothing the lady saw sense. She eventually got hold off someone and they eventually came round to the correct number.
I only didn't lose my cool because I actually felt desperately sorry for her. She was way in over her head, clearly with no support from her management who had dealt with the issue previously, whilst being pestered by a gentleman about issues with a free bet on a FOBT, whilst being pestered by another guy about there being no milk left and did she have a float to buy some more, whilst watching another guy throw his salad and lettuce all over the floor and eat it...
The happy conclusion is that 20 mins later I was able to come back and collect the cash. It was a truly pathetic situation and I can only place the blame within Ladblokes customer services and the level of arrogance which was breathtaking at times throughout the situation. I think I phoned them up 7 times in total and the shop 3 did times....
I do comeback to my original point and that is it frightening to think of what some bookmakers get away with regarding dead heat payments and payments just in general. People just assume bookies must be right and that has been the case even in this thread amongst some of the more intelligent members of the betting world. Heaven help the rest. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
I have no reason to lie regarding this issue. The slip was hand written because it was showing as a different price in the shop and on the screens to the price within the Lads system. This was sent off for authorisation and this was accepted after a phone call. The bet was placed on the Wed evening and was a normal PGA Tour event. (Top 5 - I am very aware of when the place terms change etc) The player in question was Mackenzie at 66/1. I nearly always try and get them to put it into the system to try and avoid this ridiculous incompetence. The other time you have to hand write the bets is when the bet is larger than the maximum stakes allowed on their systems. This then goes through for authorisation although I have noticed more and more recently that they are not willing to take more than the maximum the machine will allow. It really depends which shop you are in.
So I actually had resolution to the issue today. After two more phone calls to customer services I eventually found someone who actually agreed with the settlement number I thought it to be. With that being the case I went to the shop again. I was originally quoted a figure in the £700's which almost made me lose my cool. Having been told repeatedly that the issue has already been through to customer services and they could do nothing the lady saw sense. She eventually got hold off someone and they eventually came round to the correct number.
I only didn't lose my cool because I actually felt desperately sorry for her. She was way in over her head, clearly with no support from her management who had dealt with the issue previously, whilst being pestered by a gentleman about issues with a free bet on a FOBT, whilst being pestered by another guy about there being no milk left and did she have a float to buy some more, whilst watching another guy throw his salad and lettuce all over the floor and eat it...
The happy conclusion is that 20 mins later I was able to come back and collect the cash. It was a truly pathetic situation and I can only place the blame within Ladblokes customer services and the level of arrogance which was breathtaking at times throughout the situation. I think I phoned them up 7 times in total and the shop 3 did times....
I do comeback to my original point and that is it frightening to think of what some bookmakers get away with regarding dead heat payments and payments just in general. People just assume bookies must be right and that has been the case even in this thread amongst some of the more intelligent members of the betting world. Heaven help the rest. Thanks to everyone for their contributions.
Tom - thanks for the explanation. Given what you say I think that got a bit lucky. I have noticed in the past that the firm does sometimes keep some golf prices on their shop screens which have actually been cut on the web site so, if you could get them you were on to a good thing. The most surprising thing to me is that when I have done this in the past the bets were always accepted at the 'wrong' price despite them being referred to head office for authorisation. Since the mandating of the use of the call-over system, I have found this impossible to do as the staff refuse point blank to apply any other price than that in their system. In recent weeks when they have put through a hand-written slip which needs authorisation, the head office call the shop and insist that it is put through the call-over system. I assume that they are mandating the use of the call-over system to: (1) ease the burden on head office as they can put limits on a 'per golfer' basis into the system and therefore have no need for authorisation; (2) manage liabilities more effectively as the system will tell them immediately if they are getting lots of bets on the same golfer; and (3) stop 'wrong' prices being laid from the shop screens - for example the screen for the Masters late last week was still showing 25/1 for DJ and 33/1 for Bubba Watson, prices that had long since disappeared. When I have wanted bets larger than the limit the system allows one very good shop manager phoned head office to ask how this could be done and they temporarily increased the allowed limit, though I tend now to stick to the limit as entering into dialogue with head office tends to expedite a price-cut so I'd prefer not to draw attention to it and hope that the price sticks around and I can get another bet on at another shop. All in all I've grown to loath the call-over system as it imposes limits that are often too small for me and removes the possibility of exploiting 'wrong' prices on the shop screens, so well done on getting it through and I'm glad that you have been paid out correctly.
I'm also interested in any other tips on avoiding the call-over system as this firm often has some standout golf prices that it has become increasingly difficult to get on to any decent amount.
I'm also interested in any other tips on avoiding the call-over system as this firm often has some standout golf prices that it has become increasingly difficult to get on to any decent amount.
...and on your other point, of course bets should be settled correctly but I don't really have a lot of sympathy with people who bet without knowing the full rules and basic maths that apply to their bets, whether that be dead-heat rules, application of Rule 4, or other things like tennis matches that don't run the full course, especially if they are betting to meaningful stakes of the type you mention
pleased for you tom,
wessex
you could move to newcastle, they have 8 shops within 10 minutes walk !
wessex
you could move to newcastle, they have 8 shops within 10 minutes walk !
and bookmakers have a duty of care to settle bets correctly, they are aware that their customers are not all maths wizz kids
its staggering that so many within our largest bookmaker cannot settle a simple bet correctly
its staggering that so many within our largest bookmaker cannot settle a simple bet correctly
...and on your other point, of course bets should be settled correctly but I don't really have a lot of sympathy with people who bet without knowing the full rules and basic maths that apply to their bets, whether that be dead-heat rules, application of Rule 4, or other things like tennis matches that don't run the full course, especially if they are betting to meaningful stakes of the type you mention
I think that's harsh. It's easy for us "shrewdies" to live in a bubble where everyone understands odds & mathematics. Any brief conversation with your average punter will tell you otherwise.
Basic errors and typos happen but this incident sounds more a case of sheer widespread incompetence at Ladbrokes. Not only was he offered the wrong winnings but was then repeatedly told it was correct when he challenged them. I don't think you can expect most punters to be as persistent as Tom was. An utter shambles. Glad you got it resolved anyway Tom.
Been following this from afar. Customer service departments that refuse to listen to customers is a phenomenon that we've all experienced in one form or another and it just makes you not want to use that company any more. Its much worse with a bookie, because they are not only basically giving you the big finger they are also trying to stitch you up.
Well done for persisting, and well done for getting your cash.
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