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This is getting a sad sad place. Every single market covered with fast bots and eventually it has spooked all the not so efficient players. all around absolute sad place there are no new customers only bots and seasoned pros. look at the pre match oh my god only couple of grands gets matched from courtsiders thats all. basketball dead, nba dead, euroleaue dead and so on so on.
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The whole place changed at the start of premium charge '07 ish ?
there were a few issues that needed addressing but that was one of the more cynical and heavy handed moves followed by a lack of investment and promotion of the exchange itself,
in more recent years they've tried to address that slightly but without removing PC there remains a lack of market makers/liquidity providers in anything of a lower profile...
crucially a lot of good will and word of mouth recommendation disappeared overnight as well that for something like the exchange platform was invaluable....
all that said from a purely company based perspective, I'm not sure too much has gone wrong
there were a few issues that needed addressing but that was one of the more cynical and heavy handed moves followed by a lack of investment and promotion of the exchange itself,
in more recent years they've tried to address that slightly but without removing PC there remains a lack of market makers/liquidity providers in anything of a lower profile...
crucially a lot of good will and word of mouth recommendation disappeared overnight as well that for something like the exchange platform was invaluable....
all that said from a purely company based perspective, I'm not sure too much has gone wrong
Just move any possible large profit to Smarkets before the market completes.
Good points I used to recommend betfair to others, but I stopped doing it, about ten years ago sadly.
The Premium Charge was introduced in September 2008, and I hit the lifetime limit in 2012. As Brentford says, the goodwill disappeared at that point. When a company changes the rules retroactively, it tends to leave a sour taste. Niche sports like basketball only see in-play action from courtsiders or idiots, who soon learn that the playing field isn't level and understandably give up.
PC sorted one thing out. wild match fixing in tennis and in second tier football such as B series German 2 league and so on. Gosh I miss those days when Lodra, Gabashvilli, Dolgopolov, Dinara Safina, Azarenka with her "health problems" and bunch of italians and south americans where at their best in these things. Kind of a got rid of accounts who drained money out of total liquidity pool in a very fast way but there has never been an idea how to replace. Because there is no simply real liquidity anymore. There is no way you can really get in and out of market for example during a sit down in tennis. Basketball oh my good. Nba these playoffs. Only tactical entries no overreactions or underreactions with corrections. No mug money who can push the market maker around for a couple of ticks even. I remember those day when nba th best money was made during HT, especially if the half ended with an unexpected run. oh well.
even WC darts this year was a sad place not so sad as nba but way worse than years ago. darts was my facourite even though i kinda discovered it pretty late in my trading journey.
even WC darts this year was a sad place not so sad as nba but way worse than years ago. darts was my facourite even though i kinda discovered it pretty late in my trading journey.
And I do think as they got rid of potential big match fixing. betfair themselves turned into big trading whales who can hunt safely and patiently.
Jun 22, 2021 -- 9:23PM, cpfc4me wrote:
The Premium Charge was introduced in September 2008, and I hit the lifetime limit in 2012. As Brentford says, the goodwill disappeared at that point. When a company changes the rules retroactively, it tends to leave a sour taste. Niche sports like basketball only see in-play action from courtsiders or idiots, who soon learn that the playing field isn't level and understandably give up.
Believe it or not even politics is littered with courtsiders! These are "agents" at the election counts who have visual access to the piles of ballots and bet live on Betfair. I see it all the time, usually about an hour before the official result announced.
Jun 23, 2021 -- 11:51AM, tinkyvinky wrote:
even WC darts this year was a sad place not so sad as nba but way worse than years ago. darts was my facourite even though i kinda discovered it pretty late in my trading journey.
You only have to look at the scoreboards on the bookies sites (which are also behind) to see how far behind live the pics are for the darts! It's not a coincidence that that particular market is now like a ghost town compared to what it used to be.
So many of these "niche" sports suffer from having pictures that are further behind in 2021 than they've ever been before (thanks to HD etc).... Even the BFLV feeds got further behind with the demise of Flash....
Believe it or not even politics is littered with courtsiders! These are "agents" at the election counts who have visual access to the piles of ballots and bet live on Betfair. I see it all the time, usually about an hour before the official result announced.
I am shocked! You'll be telling us next that there are insiders on the Next Manager markets...
I am shocked! You'll be telling us next that there are insiders on the Next Manager markets...
IMHO the premium charge killed all the liquidity.
The days after it was introduced in 2008 during the great recession
the markets started drying up.
All the goodwill and word of mouth about the exchange had evaporated in an instance.
It was no longer about punter v punter .A 3rd entity had entered the equation.
Once Punter A beat Punter B on a particular market the winning punter A was then
subject to a very hefty 20%,40% , or 60% deduction from his account come 12 noon on a Wednesday
every week.
That my friends is when the rot set in and it has only gotten worse .
When the PC charge was introduced ,those affected like myself received an e-mail from betfair.
The E=mail said that the money taken from my account every week will go improving the exchange and increasing the liquidity.
Guess what!? the opposite happened.The markets just dried up and become filled with bots that only made things worse.
it will come to a point in the very near future that the exchange is totally unusable and that any value to be
had will be thru the sportsbooks that as we all know slaughter any successful exchange punter will massive account restrictions
and bans for daring to show a small profit .
It's not gambling any more folks and I get the feeling that there is a vacuum left for someone to come in
and make a lot of money if they can create a company that is similar to that one that was created at the time
when the 'death to the bookmaker' coffin was carried into a racecourse.
The days after it was introduced in 2008 during the great recession
the markets started drying up.
All the goodwill and word of mouth about the exchange had evaporated in an instance.
It was no longer about punter v punter .A 3rd entity had entered the equation.
Once Punter A beat Punter B on a particular market the winning punter A was then
subject to a very hefty 20%,40% , or 60% deduction from his account come 12 noon on a Wednesday
every week.
That my friends is when the rot set in and it has only gotten worse .
When the PC charge was introduced ,those affected like myself received an e-mail from betfair.
The E=mail said that the money taken from my account every week will go improving the exchange and increasing the liquidity.
Guess what!? the opposite happened.The markets just dried up and become filled with bots that only made things worse.
it will come to a point in the very near future that the exchange is totally unusable and that any value to be
had will be thru the sportsbooks that as we all know slaughter any successful exchange punter will massive account restrictions
and bans for daring to show a small profit .
It's not gambling any more folks and I get the feeling that there is a vacuum left for someone to come in
and make a lot of money if they can create a company that is similar to that one that was created at the time
when the 'death to the bookmaker' coffin was carried into a racecourse.
Maybe their will be other exchanges starting up that don't have Premium Charge which attracts heavy speculators?
The problem every other exchange that's come along since has discovered is that liquidity breeds liquidity. If you don't have it, you are going to struggle to get people to bet with you. Why would they, if half the time they're not going to be getting matched (*unless they're not at all price-sensitive)?
This is why (OK, one of the reasons) the Premium Charge had such a massive negative effect on BF's ability to grow. It meant that many marginal markets became not worth the effort for many layers to play, ultimately leading to their (the markets') demise. Gradually, things have been whittled away, and fiddled with, to such an extent that the user experience today is a country mile from what it was when PC was introduced.
It's not all PC that's to blame, but it definitely accounts for a good chunk of why we are where we are now. The introduction of stricter affordability checks could be absolutely huge in the long-term viability for exchange betting full-stop.
This is why (OK, one of the reasons) the Premium Charge had such a massive negative effect on BF's ability to grow. It meant that many marginal markets became not worth the effort for many layers to play, ultimately leading to their (the markets') demise. Gradually, things have been whittled away, and fiddled with, to such an extent that the user experience today is a country mile from what it was when PC was introduced.
It's not all PC that's to blame, but it definitely accounts for a good chunk of why we are where we are now. The introduction of stricter affordability checks could be absolutely huge in the long-term viability for exchange betting full-stop.
Nice rants by tinkyvinky and pmbets--pity they haven't provided a single statistic to back up
your claims.
In the Euro outright you can have £46K at 2.66 £49K at 3.4 £64K at 4 or £14K at 11. 100.7% book.
It's not gambling any more folks
It's never been gambling for PC payers but for the other 99% it's gambling and always will be.
I've been here since the start and IMO the exchange is as busy as it's ever been.
We've had numerous threads like this but no one has ever provided any evidence to
back up their case.
your claims.
In the Euro outright you can have £46K at 2.66 £49K at 3.4 £64K at 4 or £14K at 11. 100.7% book.
It's not gambling any more folks
It's never been gambling for PC payers but for the other 99% it's gambling and always will be.
I've been here since the start and IMO the exchange is as busy as it's ever been.
We've had numerous threads like this but no one has ever provided any evidence to
back up their case.
JML - Of course the biggest markets in the biggest tournaments are still busy, but take a look at other sports and it's a different story. So many of the side markets that I used to love just don't exist anymore. If people want a bet, they are forced to bet on the mainstream markets because that's (in a lot of cases) all that's left. What BF has done (for their own benefit) with 100s of handicap lines, total points etc, totally defies logic on a betting exchange.
JML - Of course the biggest markets in the biggest tournaments are still busy, but take a look at other sports and it's a different story.
It's always been the same.
If people want a bet, they are forced to bet on the mainstream markets because that's (in a lot of cases) all that's left.
That's just not true Over 70 markets for the Euro semis and over 50 for games like Dallas v Vancover!!!!!
So many of the side markets that I used to love just don't exist anymore.
So many??--name a dozen and explain why you used to love them.What great satifaction did you get from
betting in these markets that no one else showed any intrest in.
What BF has done (for their own benefit) with 100s of handicap lines, total points etc, totally defies logic on a betting exchange.
Don't understand your point--there are still Asian handicaps and Goal Lines.
What Betfair have done is to get rid of markets where there was next to no turnover.
It's always been the same.
If people want a bet, they are forced to bet on the mainstream markets because that's (in a lot of cases) all that's left.
That's just not true Over 70 markets for the Euro semis and over 50 for games like Dallas v Vancover!!!!!
So many of the side markets that I used to love just don't exist anymore.
So many??--name a dozen and explain why you used to love them.What great satifaction did you get from
betting in these markets that no one else showed any intrest in.
What BF has done (for their own benefit) with 100s of handicap lines, total points etc, totally defies logic on a betting exchange.
Don't understand your point--there are still Asian handicaps and Goal Lines.
What Betfair have done is to get rid of markets where there was next to no turnover.
i only bet in horse racing markets and the liquidity seems pretty low now compared to what it was
JML - I'm not a football punter, which you seem to be based on your responses.
Over my two weeks short of 20 years here liquidity has fizzled out almost completely on many sports. If you don't think the likes of darts, snooker, rugby union, rugby league, horse racing place markets are considerably thinner now than they were in the past, we will have to agree to disagree. And that's after BF has culled (or replaced with inferior "products") a lot of the more interesting side markets in those sports. PC HAS accounted for a lot of the lost liquidity (and then the markets themselves because no-one wants to play once the market maker has gone - see my 1412 post) on those sports, because I used to provide it.
Rugby union and rugby league matches used to get three handicap lines, which was perfect for trading, then it became one, and then in their infinite wisdom, they replaced that with the 100+ line abominations we have now, where only those trading on API software are even aware that prices exist on any line other than the three (consecutive ones) currently displayed on the BF website (they change depending on the status of the match)... That is designed purely so BF can offer circa 110% books on every line. It isn't designed for anyone wanting to trade the game...
Over my two weeks short of 20 years here liquidity has fizzled out almost completely on many sports. If you don't think the likes of darts, snooker, rugby union, rugby league, horse racing place markets are considerably thinner now than they were in the past, we will have to agree to disagree. And that's after BF has culled (or replaced with inferior "products") a lot of the more interesting side markets in those sports. PC HAS accounted for a lot of the lost liquidity (and then the markets themselves because no-one wants to play once the market maker has gone - see my 1412 post) on those sports, because I used to provide it.
Rugby union and rugby league matches used to get three handicap lines, which was perfect for trading, then it became one, and then in their infinite wisdom, they replaced that with the 100+ line abominations we have now, where only those trading on API software are even aware that prices exist on any line other than the three (consecutive ones) currently displayed on the BF website (they change depending on the status of the match)... That is designed purely so BF can offer circa 110% books on every line. It isn't designed for anyone wanting to trade the game...
I'd expect horse racing market share to fall from one year to another.
That's down to the sports declining popularity and there's nothing Betfair can do about that.
You claim that those sports are considerably thinnerand then complain that minor markets have been removed.
If the main market is so weak what is the point in having more than 2 or 3 minor markets.
This South Africa v Br Lions game looks like it might be a popular RU game.
Are you saying there will be no handicap lines on this game?
That's down to the sports declining popularity and there's nothing Betfair can do about that.
You claim that those sports are considerably thinnerand then complain that minor markets have been removed.
If the main market is so weak what is the point in having more than 2 or 3 minor markets.
This South Africa v Br Lions game looks like it might be a popular RU game.
Are you saying there will be no handicap lines on this game?
I'm trying to explain why those markets are thinner. You seem to have an issue with people saying it is linked to PC. Do you think more money gets matched in a market where there is money on the screen than when there is not?
I am telling you there will probably be 406 handicap lines on that game, like there are on the Super League game that is currently taking place (£14,499.76 matched in total with 7 mins to go). This handicap policy DOES NOT WORK on an EXCHANGE. It has stopped me from playing on these markets, and when the match market is 1/10, like this was at KO, it becomes yet another match that you just end up sitting out, and so the death spiral of liquidity continues. There is only one way it will go.
I am telling you there will probably be 406 handicap lines on that game, like there are on the Super League game that is currently taking place (£14,499.76 matched in total with 7 mins to go). This handicap policy DOES NOT WORK on an EXCHANGE. It has stopped me from playing on these markets, and when the match market is 1/10, like this was at KO, it becomes yet another match that you just end up sitting out, and so the death spiral of liquidity continues. There is only one way it will go.
Latolomne--I've been on here even longer than you have,I've paid PC since 2008 and probably we've read the same threads over the years.
I remember one a few years after PC1 that showed the amounts matched had continued to increase every year.
There have been countless threads about liquidity and what effects PC has had on liquidity
but I've yet to see any one provide a shread of solid evidence of any decrease.
The number of people paying 40%+ should decrease over time because it will be much harder for those replacing those that retire to reach £250K.
Sorry,I'didnt understand what you meant about hundreads of handicap lines.
I'd much prefer to have every 5 or even 10 points.
And perhaps a seperate market added a few hours before KO with the 50/50 line.
They duplicate some of goal lines on the football with seperate markets.(over/under 0.5 etc)
I remember one a few years after PC1 that showed the amounts matched had continued to increase every year.
There have been countless threads about liquidity and what effects PC has had on liquidity
but I've yet to see any one provide a shread of solid evidence of any decrease.
The number of people paying 40%+ should decrease over time because it will be much harder for those replacing those that retire to reach £250K.
Sorry,I'didnt understand what you meant about hundreads of handicap lines.
I'd much prefer to have every 5 or even 10 points.
And perhaps a seperate market added a few hours before KO with the 50/50 line.
They duplicate some of goal lines on the football with seperate markets.(over/under 0.5 etc)
I too have paid PC since 2008 and still pay 40% now on the (much reduced) amount I do still bet here, but the number of sports that applies to is falling off a cliff.
Frog's analysis showed that growth plateaued after the introduction of PC2 and started to decrease thereafter. It's a shame he's not still here now. I have no doubt there are sports that are still growing (20/20 cricket, in its various guises, for instance) but the sports where that is the case are surely in a significant minority, with the opposite being the case in many.
You're lucky, the only time we get treated to separate handicap lines these days is generally during the Rugby World Cup
It used to be such a good market. Same with the tennis handicaps (though there's *only* 64 lines for those at Wimbledon now 
)
As I say, it's not all PC's fault (slow pics, BF taking its eye off the ball where the Exchange was concerned, shutting down access in certain countries, abject customer service, etc have all contributed), but it has played a part.
Frog's analysis showed that growth plateaued after the introduction of PC2 and started to decrease thereafter. It's a shame he's not still here now. I have no doubt there are sports that are still growing (20/20 cricket, in its various guises, for instance) but the sports where that is the case are surely in a significant minority, with the opposite being the case in many.
You're lucky, the only time we get treated to separate handicap lines these days is generally during the Rugby World Cup
It used to be such a good market. Same with the tennis handicaps (though there's *only* 64 lines for those at Wimbledon now )As I say, it's not all PC's fault (slow pics, BF taking its eye off the ball where the Exchange was concerned, shutting down access in certain countries, abject customer service, etc have all contributed), but it has played a part.
PC certainly has played a part, but when your whole business model moves to taking 40-60% of profits from those who are betting after the fact all you are going to have left is a business that eats itself.
It's a bit of mistake to assume that PC payers are just those betting 'after the fact' if I correctly understand the suggestion..
any successful trader would very quickly be in the realm of pc especially if specialising in markets with long period outcomes and therefore multiple transactions
you could literally be a £2 bits and pieces trader and still fall foul of a PC charge at the lower level...
the fact that it could and undoubtedly does happen in that fashion is a guarantee that some of the 40-60% level are purely legitimate punters/ traders
I strongly felt even pre PC charge that a more aggressive commitment to warning naïve punters that they could be significantly behind courtsiders or other perfectly reasonable methods of close/closer to live source would have done far more to stop the inevitable disadvantaged drain from more casual punters...
The current climate is arguably even more skewed but for reasons I wouldn't care to advance on...
any successful trader would very quickly be in the realm of pc especially if specialising in markets with long period outcomes and therefore multiple transactions
you could literally be a £2 bits and pieces trader and still fall foul of a PC charge at the lower level...
the fact that it could and undoubtedly does happen in that fashion is a guarantee that some of the 40-60% level are purely legitimate punters/ traders
I strongly felt even pre PC charge that a more aggressive commitment to warning naïve punters that they could be significantly behind courtsiders or other perfectly reasonable methods of close/closer to live source would have done far more to stop the inevitable disadvantaged drain from more casual punters...
The current climate is arguably even more skewed but for reasons I wouldn't care to advance on...
don't know what the record for turnover on a football match is,but I wouldn't be surprised if
it's broken in the final.Might have been broken in last nights semi. About 1.5m before KO in the correct score
market is not something i remember seeing before.
it's broken in the final.Might have been broken in last nights semi. About 1.5m before KO in the correct score
market is not something i remember seeing before.
It would definitely break the record if this match took place in the 2008-2012 period.
Back in 2008 the euro group matches were matching in the 20's millions on match odds.
I think the 2010 world cup outright market did over £80m. The Wimbledon final in 08 also did £50m.
That was the sweet spot period. Don't know if anything more recent has beat these records.
Last US election did over £2Billion so that beats everything.
Back in 2008 the euro group matches were matching in the 20's millions on match odds.
I think the 2010 world cup outright market did over £80m. The Wimbledon final in 08 also did £50m.
That was the sweet spot period. Don't know if anything more recent has beat these records.
Last US election did over £2Billion so that beats everything.
Business is booming on exchanges where no PC is levied.
2008 and pc and the changes in chatrooms as everyone was going where are the 1000posts used to be on usa racing every night sportbook added
no way to make one bet due to pc all makes the downfall of punters leaving in masses rem the yuppie years of late 1980s when tax of 40% added on to the shockmarket and they did go it very simper to pc
no way to make one bet due to pc all makes the downfall of punters leaving in masses rem the yuppie years of late 1980s when tax of 40% added on to the shockmarket and they did go it very simper to pc
I remember those days pre-2008. US racing was big back then, and still a novelty. There were so many mugs who would back a rag at 14.0, when the book percentage was still about 110%, simply because someone in the studio (Dale Mckeown for instance) put in a word for it. There was a scramble to get the links up to all the USA tracks (not allowed, but Betfair was only half hearted in policing this). US players didn't even seem to record and watch the races, and relied soley on reports in DRF. It seemed back then that those days would go on for ever.
But suddenly websites like calracing.com put race replay links on their racecards and the markets were instantly clued up. PC was introduced. UK punters blocked from some USA websites. Extra tiers of PC introduced. Commission rates tinkered with (after P.Nicholls won £1 million Betfair bonus, but this was probably just a coincidence...not) so that nearly everyone was put on 4.9% or 5%. Then some USA tracks were not available for betfair customers (which included KY derby). Goodwill was lost overnight.
But we will never get it back, now that exchanges are owned by big bookies.
But suddenly websites like calracing.com put race replay links on their racecards and the markets were instantly clued up. PC was introduced. UK punters blocked from some USA websites. Extra tiers of PC introduced. Commission rates tinkered with (after P.Nicholls won £1 million Betfair bonus, but this was probably just a coincidence...not) so that nearly everyone was put on 4.9% or 5%. Then some USA tracks were not available for betfair customers (which included KY derby). Goodwill was lost overnight.
But we will never get it back, now that exchanges are owned by big bookies.
It seems to me that the real winners in online betting is the bookies they now have a far better understanding of the pro gambler and their methods and their business is now much larger.
All the other exchanges have schemes where winners are penalised.
Perhaps not--but they do penalise consistent winners by increasing the commission rate
and it starts at well below £250K.
and it starts at well below £250K.
look at darts right now it effing matchplay White - Gurney one fast gut trying to be king. No one cares he s fast he cant get matched anything decent anyways.
Hardly surprising there's no money there when the pics are generally 3 darts behind live, sometimes more if it's two rapid slingers.
What I don't understand is BF's reluctance to put up side markets that used to be good business.
Look at the EPL - they used to have forecast, tricast, top at Xmas, relegation treble, relegation doubles etc. etc.
The only explanation I can think of is that Sportsbook wants those markets all to itself... but why?
And why are there still obscure markets on obscure sports that see threepence ha'penny matched?
Look at the EPL - they used to have forecast, tricast, top at Xmas, relegation treble, relegation doubles etc. etc.
The only explanation I can think of is that Sportsbook wants those markets all to itself... but why?
And why are there still obscure markets on obscure sports that see threepence ha'penny matched?
Why does bf automatically assume people will use the sports book if the market is no longer on the exchange? The odds aint the greatest
Agreed.
But maybe we overestimate the intelligence of Joe Punter.
But maybe we overestimate the intelligence of Joe Punter.
Jul 29, 2021 -- 2:56PM, macarony wrote:
Why does bf automatically assume people will use the sports book if the market is no longer on the exchange? The odds aint the greatest
They have banned winners from sportsbook.
It's all gone to pot.A shadow of the once great betfair.
Agree with alot above I'm not a big punter more for some fun
but even i have now started to withdraw slowly etc from betting
Slow pictures and prices always moving 0.03-0.04(this has got much more common) against you everytime
you place a bet means you hardly ever get matched Snooker has gone completely for me
but even i have now started to withdraw slowly etc from betting
Slow pictures and prices always moving 0.03-0.04(this has got much more common) against you everytime
you place a bet means you hardly ever get matched Snooker has gone completely for me
I suspect prices moving against you every time is BECAUSE the pictures are slow, Wit-ham, rather than anything more sinister. It is clear we're often 5 secs+ behind live, which is just unforgiveable in this day and age....
Idid think that but it is every time and even if nothing is happening i.e change of over it always moves the opposite way to whether you trying to back or lay.and when you cancel it moves back.For years bets have disappeared as about to be matched and they not matched by anybody else
Can I ask how you're placing bets? Are you using the BF website?
Yes on a laptop i even thought years ago (did mention it on here)i thought my be two markets on the same event
as wierd as that may seem,or large bot manipulation
As would think i might get it right once or twice in a hundred bets without it moving the other way
as wierd as that may seem,or large bot manipulation
As would think i might get it right once or twice in a hundred bets without it moving the other way
All I will say is that the default refresh rate on the BF website is looooooong (10 secs+), so unless you're manually clicking the refresh button all the time, what you're seeing is potentially very old data.
I use one-click software (Gruss Betting Assistant) with a 1-second refresh rate, and I've never experienced what you do, and I'm on here most days. The markets are moving all the time, literally.
I use one-click software (Gruss Betting Assistant) with a 1-second refresh rate, and I've never experienced what you do, and I'm on here most days. The markets are moving all the time, literally.
Thanks for the replies Latalomne think my normal delay is 7-8 secs
Y
Y
That's still a lifetime in BF terms... I'd be amazed if you didn't notice a massive difference in your hit rate if you gave one-click a go. You can get a 30-day free trial with Gruss.
I probably don't bet enough to make it worth while, i pay 2% on here on any winnings
Fair enough. IMHO, it's the best £6 a month you can spend 
wit-ham, even if you don't bet enough to make Gruss worthwhile and just stick with the BF website, you still don't have to put up with a 7 or 8 seconds refresh rate.
Go to "Settings", then select "Betting" - you can then use the "slider" to choose your preferred refresh rate at anything between 1 second and 15 seconds - just adjust it to 1 second.
Go to "Settings", then select "Betting" - you can then use the "slider" to choose your preferred refresh rate at anything between 1 second and 15 seconds - just adjust it to 1 second.
And, underneath that ^^^, ticking the `highlight when odds change` option makes any changing prices temporarily go yellow, easy to notice
Dec 11, 2021 -- 11:04AM, The Management wrote:
wit-ham, even if you don't bet enough to make Gruss worthwhile and just stick with the BF website, you still don't have to put up with a 7 or 8 seconds refresh rate. Go to "Settings", then select "Betting" - you can then use the "slider" to choose your preferred refresh rate at anything between 1 second and 15 seconds - just adjust it to 1 second.
Good info, TM! Shows how long it's been since I used the website.
To be fair Lats, since I last used the website, they have invested very heavily to encourage new customers onto the exchange - they have also...........
Nope, sorry, can't think of anything else, I think that's actually it.
They have invested all of the PC collected in the past dozen or so years on a refresh-rate slider. And the OP is wondering, who killed Betfair?
Nope, sorry, can't think of anything else, I think that's actually it.
They have invested all of the PC collected in the past dozen or so years on a refresh-rate slider. And the OP is wondering, who killed Betfair?
Assisted Suicide KC.
They realised they couldn't put the Genie back in the bottle - so they decided to starve him to death slowly imo.
They realised they couldn't put the Genie back in the bottle - so they decided to starve him to death slowly imo.
Perhaps not--but they do penalise consistent winners by increasing the commission rate
and it starts at well below £250K.
Dermot Desmond recently bought it back. It will be interesting to see if he has renewed interest in getting it off its feet following the early betfair model and keeping charges to a minimium. Cant help but think there is a huge market here to take advantage of disgruntled betfair customers. The exchange getting a facelift who be an easy win to get things started.
and it starts at well below £250K.
Dermot Desmond recently bought it back. It will be interesting to see if he has renewed interest in getting it off its feet following the early betfair model and keeping charges to a minimium. Cant help but think there is a huge market here to take advantage of disgruntled betfair customers. The exchange getting a facelift who be an easy win to get things started.
went downhill fast as soon as they joined forces with padd y powe r
They need to do something.The exchange is sinking as fast as the share price.
I wonder if the opportunity for traditional exchanges is shrinking by the day. exchanges and prediction markets on crypto platforms looks like it will probably be the future at this point.
Not surprised no one can deposit money anymore with these affordability checks. Anyone know of any back street bookmakers?
Not surprised no one can deposit money anymore with these affordability checks. Anyone know of any back street bookmakers?
Running a successful betting operation is about keeping losing punters happy and coming back.
Bet365, Unibet, Betway, Skybet, William Hill and Paddy Power did this far better and killed the Betfair Exchange.
The exchange never found a way to attract enough losing punters to sustain their growth after the initial impact. When the bookies fought back with offers such as Best Odds Guaranteed, free bets, 6 places and all the rest of it the exchange failed to fight back.
The first race that had over a million matched was on Russian Rythm in the Cheveley Park Stakes in 2001. Before 2008 many races had over million matched. Even maidens. Now it is rare.
The winners made so much money in the first few years and the losers were drawn to the bookie offers. The exchange did not compete with the offers the bookmaker gave to losing punters.
Bookies can price up early and deeper for losing punters because they can restrict winners. Not sure how an exchange can ever get round that problem as market makers pricing early just get picked off.
Betfair had a chance in 2008 to address this and use the Premium Charge millions to give cashback to losers constantly contacting them with bonus (re)funds. They could also have incentivised early market makers. Betfair chose to keep the cash for themselves and get higher short term profits for their IPO. They cashed in but in the process but sent the exchange on a downward spiral.
Lack of international growth due to it being easier to get sportsbook licences than exchange licences also slowed growth.
Bet365, Unibet, Betway, Skybet, William Hill and Paddy Power did this far better and killed the Betfair Exchange.
The exchange never found a way to attract enough losing punters to sustain their growth after the initial impact. When the bookies fought back with offers such as Best Odds Guaranteed, free bets, 6 places and all the rest of it the exchange failed to fight back.
The first race that had over a million matched was on Russian Rythm in the Cheveley Park Stakes in 2001. Before 2008 many races had over million matched. Even maidens. Now it is rare.
The winners made so much money in the first few years and the losers were drawn to the bookie offers. The exchange did not compete with the offers the bookmaker gave to losing punters.
Bookies can price up early and deeper for losing punters because they can restrict winners. Not sure how an exchange can ever get round that problem as market makers pricing early just get picked off.
Betfair had a chance in 2008 to address this and use the Premium Charge millions to give cashback to losers constantly contacting them with bonus (re)funds. They could also have incentivised early market makers. Betfair chose to keep the cash for themselves and get higher short term profits for their IPO. They cashed in but in the process but sent the exchange on a downward spiral.
Lack of international growth due to it being easier to get sportsbook licences than exchange licences also slowed growth.
BF worked out that they were paying out millions in overheads attracting losers to the exchange and receiving crumbs when they lost their dough to the shrewdies who just had to turn their computer on.
Surely you didn't expect that to continue ?
The matched numbers actually mean little without knowing the extent of the ping pong trades.
Surely you didn't expect that to continue ?
The matched numbers actually mean little without knowing the extent of the ping pong trades.
I think the exchange is on it's last legs now.Hope pp/betfair save it.5 years max.
The real liquidity gets worse ever day.
The real liquidity gets worse ever day.
The politics offering is derisory compared to another exchange.
Remember they have started to close the side markets down and the place only on the USA horse racing.
Once the Betfair forum is closed down ,then you know it is the beginning of the end for the Betfair exchange.
Very sad to say this.
Once the Betfair forum is closed down ,then you know it is the beginning of the end for the Betfair exchange.
Very sad to say this.
The exchange has been completely ruined by the Premium Charge. Why pay it when you don't get charged by competitors?
Because the liquidity isn't matched across the board. On some markets, if you want to get matched, you have to bite the bullet.
If the Premium charge is scrapped I promise to chuck £5000 and boost all the odds in the first race at Mountaineer Park
USA like I used to at the Great lakes downs in the past.
Basically you get free money if you have been losing all day.
If the price should be 3/1 I offer 5/1 etc .We had great times pre PC TAX and we would all
have the first race at Great lakes downs at about £500,000 when there was only about $3000 in the tote pool at the off.
Maybe one day they will remove this hated Premium charge.I hope the declining exchange last that long.
USA like I used to at the Great lakes downs in the past.
Basically you get free money if you have been losing all day.
If the price should be 3/1 I offer 5/1 etc .We had great times pre PC TAX and we would all
have the first race at Great lakes downs at about £500,000 when there was only about $3000 in the tote pool at the off.
Maybe one day they will remove this hated Premium charge.I hope the declining exchange last that long.
Why pay Premium Charge when there are alternatives?
politicspunter, I have been using the other exchange on and off ever since I got hit by Premium Charge in 2009 (due to a flukey, lucky big win). I was so furious about unjustly falling into the trap that I left Betfair for a few months. But there wasn't the liquidity in the Bdaq markets when I needed it. And I came back. Then when Bdaq went to 2% commission I started using them more. But the problem is liquidity. If every one got together and all went to the otherside, we would all be better off, but I am afraid people can't see the advantages.
I haven't paid premium charge since 2014, but I am still affected by it due to former big players (on here) having left due to the Charge, resulting in low liquidity. But they don't seem to have reappeared on the other exchange. More likely they have just gone.
I haven't paid premium charge since 2014, but I am still affected by it due to former big players (on here) having left due to the Charge, resulting in low liquidity. But they don't seem to have reappeared on the other exchange. More likely they have just gone.
I have been with them for a few years now and found them fine. Obviously, 90%+ of my bets are on politics but on the occasions I have had a bet on football or bigger National Hunt races there appears to be plenty of action. I really can't be certain about normal racing/football on a lower standard though. I guess the only way to find out is to try them for a week or so.
2023 it's a sad place now the exchange.Cannot last much longer.If they got rid of the PC charge they would be back to the races again.
In answer to the opening post.the big 4 killed Betfair,they finally got it.
To all the pc killed it.if most pc payers,lay or trade,then you need new or repeat customers ,so like bookies pay for pitches,Betfair charge you for them creating new customers.
Betfair will survive,cos it’s an industry liability insurance scheme.
Smaller bookies,pitches,need to edge liabilities off to someone,so the exchange services this.
Punters will bet here cos bigger odds on a lot of runners,but the fun bet punter dosent really benefit,espically since they stopped multiplies on footy and horses.
New 18 year old customers,whose gateway drug is football accas,won’t bet on exchange.so the big four which Betfair is now one of them want an even playing field.
It was a great idea,but most average punters don’t really want to lay,they just want a fun bet,so the trading aspect is irrelevant to them.
Now paddy controls it,it will just blend into the betting industry,with the exchange being a clearing house for individual high liabilities.
It’s a bit like auto enrolment pension schemes,they want you to pay a big provider ,rather than investing yourself.
The on course market would collapse if Betfair wasn’t here to cover them.
To all the pc killed it.if most pc payers,lay or trade,then you need new or repeat customers ,so like bookies pay for pitches,Betfair charge you for them creating new customers.
Betfair will survive,cos it’s an industry liability insurance scheme.
Smaller bookies,pitches,need to edge liabilities off to someone,so the exchange services this.
Punters will bet here cos bigger odds on a lot of runners,but the fun bet punter dosent really benefit,espically since they stopped multiplies on footy and horses.
New 18 year old customers,whose gateway drug is football accas,won’t bet on exchange.so the big four which Betfair is now one of them want an even playing field.
It was a great idea,but most average punters don’t really want to lay,they just want a fun bet,so the trading aspect is irrelevant to them.
Now paddy controls it,it will just blend into the betting industry,with the exchange being a clearing house for individual high liabilities.
It’s a bit like auto enrolment pension schemes,they want you to pay a big provider ,rather than investing yourself.
The on course market would collapse if Betfair wasn’t here to cover them.
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