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CONER
24 Jun 16 19:48
Joined:
Date Joined: 12 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 401 | Blogger: CONER's blog
Time to vote on the very unfair charge.
Pause Switch to Standard View Referendum on pc tax charge
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Report the whizz kids June 24, 2016 9:42 PM BST
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh You get my vote even if it is 1.01 that nothing will change over the next year.
Report CONER July 3, 2016 11:57 PM BST
IMAGINE NO TAX EVERYONE COMES BACK,ALL MARKETS SEEDED,THOSE THAT PUT EFFORT IN GET WHAT THEY DESERVE.
BETFAIR GET A REALLY GREAT COMPANY BACK.AND PLENTY OUT THE 5 --PERCENT.
BETFAIR STAY AS THEY ARE AND GET F--K ALL VERY SOON.
ME I AM SICK OF THEM THEY JUST SEEM TO WANT TO ROB EVERY ONE AND DESTROY THE ONCE GREAT BETFAIR.
BUT THAT IS JUST ME THINKING.
Report pmbets July 4, 2016 1:35 AM BST
You have my vote to scrap the PC tax and bring back liquidity.The guys I feel sorry for the most are the new guys coming to the site
that are offered wide spreads in all markets.They have no chance of becoming a long term winner.
Report Coachbuster July 4, 2016 12:21 PM BST
I think it's a been said before ,we badly need  a sliding scale of charges similar to income tax with an annual exemption threshold,  also a refund of monies on losing weeks .
#
Scrapping the tax outright would be a total disaster ,even if i say so myself .
Report Johnny The Guesser July 5, 2016 7:01 PM BST
How many really give a flying f***  about PC ?

Open oddschecker.....open BF.....check odds (after commission).....check offers.....place bet....watch.

There must be 0000's like me.

This place gets less and less of my business ....Why ?  ..Simple ....5% commission is the killer.
Report TheFear July 6, 2016 9:51 AM BST
An issue with the PC that's overlooked, in my opinion, is that it would stop someone from taking the plunge to go full time on Betfair. Prior to the PC presumably many people decided to give it a go. Now it would be silly. The 40/50/60 category is not that far away if you're relying on this as an income. And of course not everyone who "took the plunge" would have been successful,,,
Report Coachbuster July 6, 2016 12:37 PM BST
An issue with the PC that's overlooked, in my opinion, is that it would stop someone from taking the plunge to go full time on Betfair. Prior to the PC presumably many people decided to give it a go. Now it would be silly.
-----------------------------

Dont get that at all .

No one is going to turn down an opportunity to 'earn'  250,000 before you are slapped with a tax that would then put you out of business .  You will earn up to that figure and presumably call it a day  and find something else to do .
  The 22.5% charge is hard enough agreed and the nature of the charge is downright unfair as it doesn't compensate for risk ,and doesn't refund on losing weeks (why isn't that illegal? because i class it as theft )   but otherwise it's not a fabulous amount more than you would be paying in self employment  .

If you were a newbie the higher charge would actually be a positive motivator as it would mean the likelihood of success would be far greater with a lot of top players knocked out .

Why there aren't new players coming along and taking advantage could well be down to lack of activity in the first place - but we've been through all this - most punters have been  encouraged to use other sites or sites which tend to be more cell phone friendly,don't charge commission (which can be cofusing for folk) and sometimes even  offer better odds  .
Report Johnny The Guesser July 6, 2016 1:21 PM BST
If you guys designed a piece of software that enabled others to run their businesses and also offered to :-

- find all the customers
- pay all the taxes
- run and maintain all IT
- ensure no bad debts
- ensure immediate payment
- pay(almost)all admin costs
- be available 24/7 to suit 
- etc.

I'm sure you would feel that a 60:40 profit split wasn't too unreasonable ?
Report pablo-fanque July 6, 2016 2:02 PM BST
sounds just like uber , who take 20% of the taxis fare
Report Templeton Peck July 6, 2016 4:52 PM BST
Uber is different as it's becoming more and more popular with taxi passengers. The exchange now appears to be less popular with mug punters than before.
Report the whizz kids July 6, 2016 7:30 PM BST

Jul 5, 2016 -- 1:01PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


How many really give a flying f***  about PC ?Open oddschecker.....open BF.....check odds (after commission).....check offers.....place bet....watch.There must be 0000's like me.This place gets less and less of my business ....Why ?  ..Simple ....5% commission is the killer.


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh That makes perfect sense????LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Anyone paying PC would have any bookie accounts restricted you bell end.

Max bet 62pence E.W, nice one Johnny.

Some people don't want PC removed, just want a fairer way of charging people to bring back liquidity which in turn will only benefit all customers.

Report JML July 6, 2016 9:48 PM BST
What Johnny the Guesser DOES make perfect sense.

I agree that anyone paying PC would more than likely be restricted,
but nowhere does JTG say he's a PC payer.

PC means nothing to average punter and although I'm on 40% it's the commission rate
that stops me using the site.

I'd love to pay tens of thousands in PC.
Report the whizz kids July 6, 2016 11:11 PM BST
JML, It was the first line of his comment that p*ssed me off, How many really give a flying f***  about PC ?.

The clue was in the title of the thread.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 7, 2016 10:45 AM BST
You wouldn't have a referendum on something that it seems only half a dozen people care about.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 7, 2016 10:58 AM BST
PC or no PC , we don't all yearn to "give it a go", bet more, go professional,or be a full timer.The PC isn't preventing us fulfilling our dreams. We just don't care.

We aren't interested in hundreds of side markets, ladies basketball, making markets or trading 000s across a tick or two. We just want to bet our 10s and 20s into near 100% books on main stream markets.

If the (industry wide) market isn't there or we don't like the price we just don't bet.It isn't compulsory.

We have never had it so good.
Report pablo-fanque July 7, 2016 2:47 PM BST
making markets or trading 000s across a tick or two. We just want to bet our 10s and 20s into near 100% books on main stream markets.

jonny , I don't trade , I don't make markets either , but I am pretty sure that without people doing the first 2 points you make , and without PC payers , you last point will not happen ( betting into 100% books ) , on horse racing that is , not sure about other sports in betting shops or elsewhere
Report Johnny The Guesser July 7, 2016 3:25 PM BST
I understand your point Pablo, but until we leisure punters start seeing wide back/lay spreads on TV football and TV horse racing then we really just don't care.
Report pablo-fanque July 7, 2016 3:47 PM BST
wide back/lay spreads on TV football and TV horse racing then we really just don't care.

I understand that too johnny , but I think most are trying to avoid/prevent wide back/lay spreads and falling liquidity, as once this starts it is a fast slippery slope to no liquidity , which means no one able to back 10s and 20s into near 100% books on main stream markets .
Report romfordiron July 7, 2016 3:55 PM BST
Johnny, do you bet much on S.markets? Seems much better for someone who wants a punt on the main market events and is chiefly concerned with commission.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 7, 2016 7:01 PM BST
Nope , not yet. I'm wary of leaving several hundred in accounts where I know little about the business  - (I will also lay a few so need to run a reasonable balance).

Any hassle withdrawing ? I'm not interested in sending in passports etc...


Pablo - I just can't see the exchange drying up to the extent that wide spreads open up on main market TV football and say C4 racing. Management just won't let that happen. Market forces will mean that as long as there is money to be made somebody will fill the gaps. If wide gaps did start appearing and we couldn't get the price we wanted we just don't bet and go off and do something else.

We leisure punters also like the idea that the sharpest minds on here get culled from time to time. This in theory dilutes the talent base allowing those further down the food chain to get an extra nibble or two. A handful of those over time will eat too much, get too fat, and rise to the top until they get culled and off we go again.
Report CONER July 7, 2016 7:03 PM BST
The tax stays and soon there will be no side markets, liquidity will just keep falling,at the moment its not worth looking at the side markets,they put them up everyday day and hardly anything gets matched.A far cry from 10 years ago,since the brain box that brought the tax in, the exchange just gets worse every week.Why would anyone spend hours and hours seeding so betfair can in effect shaft him every week.
More and more players are saying they are close to the tax,and will not bother when it hits them.And that is from the very very few that are allowed to post.I used to do all my betting through betfair now hardly use them,used to be on 2 percent now 4 plus 40.
Report pablo-fanque July 7, 2016 7:26 PM BST
I just can't see the exchange drying up to the extent that wide spreads open up on main market TV football and say C4 racing. Management just won't let that happen. Market forces will mean that as long as there is money to be made somebody will fill the gaps

you may well be correct on that point .
Report romfordiron July 7, 2016 7:55 PM BST
Haven't withdrawn from S'markets yet, but it seems a professional outfit.

'Market forces will mean that as long as there is money to be made somebody will fill the gaps'

The issue I have with this idea is that market forces aren't being allowed to operate properly. The players with the biggest banks are the ones who pay the PC. As soon as it's no longer possible to get a good return on the exchange, PC payers will take their money elsewhere. Gaps might be filled by newcomers, but it won't be with the same level of funds, so liquidity will still decline. If Betfair itself starts to put money in the markets, the exchange has ceased to exist - it'll be a sportsbook for which you have to pay charges/commission to use.

Also, where are the newcomers coming from? It's still not really being advertised, and the word-of-mouth promotion disappeared many moons ago.
Report YOMOMMA July 7, 2016 10:38 PM BST
Smarkets is bloody brilliant. However they seem to have voided my Germany Euro 2016 outright lay, hope they fix it correctly & quickly!
Report YOMOMMA July 7, 2016 10:41 PM BST
Fixed. Happy
Report TheBetterBettor July 29, 2016 8:22 PM BST
EU referendum: Boris Johnson and Michael Gove claim Brexit would make UK scrap the VAT on energy bills
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