General Betting
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Has anyone read through this. I think this answer wins the missing the point award. (not my question btw)
Why is the higher rate charged on the basis of lifetime P&L, rather than on hitting annual targets? It means you get stuck on the higher rate regardless of how you do in the future and punishes those that have been with the site a long time. It seems a strange way to treat loyal customers.
Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat. We use your lifetime net P&L (after all charges) to measure how successful you have been on Betfair. Annual performance goes up and down so it isn’t a good indicator of just how well you have done.
Why is the higher rate charged on the basis of lifetime P&L, rather than on hitting annual targets? It means you get stuck on the higher rate regardless of how you do in the future and punishes those that have been with the site a long time. It seems a strange way to treat loyal customers.
Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat. We use your lifetime net P&L (after all charges) to measure how successful you have been on Betfair. Annual performance goes up and down so it isn’t a good indicator of just how well you have done.
Show More
Most of the answers seemed to miss the point. Any questions on the relationship between the sportsbook and exchange were all palmed off with the same word-for-word response.
1) There will be no PC changes,
2) There will be no promotional campaign of exchange.
Highly moderated, well chosen questions and answers not to touch certain subjects. Another 2,3 years without changes here, until something miraculous happen?
"Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat"- what a sarcasm ! - Shouldnt it sound like this ? : "Thank you very much that you made 40 000 pound in charges for us- we are looking forward to have a bussiness with you in the future."
2) There will be no promotional campaign of exchange.
Highly moderated, well chosen questions and answers not to touch certain subjects. Another 2,3 years without changes here, until something miraculous happen?
"Congratulations on your success – Winning £250,000 is no small feat"- what a sarcasm ! - Shouldnt it sound like this ? : "Thank you very much that you made 40 000 pound in charges for us- we are looking forward to have a bussiness with you in the future."
Does anyone know where I can find a copy of last nights Q & A?
Betfair customer service is absolutely shocking and those sarcastic answers prove it beyond any doubt.
There will be new entrants at some stage to the market and god help Betfair when the Exchange customers have a viable alternative.
When they suddenly send emails asking customers to come back - the stock answer should be 'congratulations Betfair on keeping my business for x years - now feck off'
There will be new entrants at some stage to the market and god help Betfair when the Exchange customers have a viable alternative.
When they suddenly send emails asking customers to come back - the stock answer should be 'congratulations Betfair on keeping my business for x years - now feck off'
I don't think the answers are necessarily sarcastic they're subliminal to the non-winners on here - hey don't have any sympathy for your fellow users they've won loads.
This is their stock answer and I think it's more patronising than sarcastic. The tone is "you've won quite a lot of money so stop whining".
Without liquidity there is no business - think Betfair have forgot that they get 5% commission on winning bets.
If nobody wins there is no business.
Soon all will be left is Bet Square.
If nobody wins there is no business.
Soon all will be left is Bet Square.
The thing with features like Price Rush, is that it's a great for them to leverage exchange liquidity to offer something unique on the sportsbook, while taking an extra profit in the middle. All well and good, but they need liquidity in the markets, and the people who provide it aren't going to expect to do it for nothing, they're doing it to make money. Which is why it's so odd that they now take such an adversarial approach to winning customers, almost trying to force them out when more than ever the relationship between Betfair and it's (winning) liquidity providers should be a symbiotic one.
I couldn't believe quite how patronising some of those answers were and how many were copied and pasted from other answers. These people haven't got the guts to sit in front of an audience of their customers and answer the questions we have for them. They hide behind their keyboards on this ridiculous Q&A cherry picking questions they WANT to answer. Totally disgusted especially with their dismissive attitude about the Premium Charge.
They did specificlly said they had no plans to change the 50%
and 60% rates,which could be read as they are thinking about
changing the 40% rate.
and 60% rates,which could be read as they are thinking about
changing the 40% rate.
Interesting how they kept repeating that 'Once customers join Betfair we then offer them the full range of services and encourage them to crossover to the Exchange through targeted email campaigns.' Presumably, this means that any winners on the Sportsbook will soon be directed towards the exchange. This means they'll keep all the fish they can gather on their sportsbook, while increasing the pool of winners on the exchange. They seem to fail to understand that the exchange needs losers as well, otherwise the whole ecosystem suffers.
But if the fish are getting price rushed they are ending up on the exchange. The problem with price rush currently is that it doesn't apply across the whole range of markets.
They are only ending up on the exchange when the price you're offering is significantly higher than on the Sportsbook. In the past, the fish would bet at virtually any price. So it's disingenuous to say the fish are still using the exchange. You could argue Price Rush means you're more likely to be matched when you're offering a price that's too high.
The crux is number of players is down, WAY DOWN! Not the 3 pound blokes but the guys that bet 200 to 300 a game. Demographs in general is killing the gaming industry.
I'm not going to disagree about the process of being matched with the "fry" being very different to how it used to be; clearly it is.
However, just because you're offering a price that the BFSB isn't doesn't automatically mean you're offering too big a price. From what I've read, they're seldom generous themselves. As I've said before, I'm quite happy laying to tight margins if there's plenty of backers' cash in the market - that's my preferred scenario and is when I enjoy this game the most. The problem is/has been that in many of the markets, that liquidity just isn't present.
The only positive thing to have come out of BF's responses is that they are looking at ways to address the decline on the side markets. I can't help but think they need to give market makers some sort of PC tax-break, because it's far too easy to have losing weeks on these markets nowadays because of the dearth of punters, and because you're not fully recompensed for losing weeks, it makes them less attractive to play, and thus the downward spiral continues.
However, just because you're offering a price that the BFSB isn't doesn't automatically mean you're offering too big a price. From what I've read, they're seldom generous themselves. As I've said before, I'm quite happy laying to tight margins if there's plenty of backers' cash in the market - that's my preferred scenario and is when I enjoy this game the most. The problem is/has been that in many of the markets, that liquidity just isn't present.
The only positive thing to have come out of BF's responses is that they are looking at ways to address the decline on the side markets. I can't help but think they need to give market makers some sort of PC tax-break, because it's far too easy to have losing weeks on these markets nowadays because of the dearth of punters, and because you're not fully recompensed for losing weeks, it makes them less attractive to play, and thus the downward spiral continues.
However, just because you're offering a price that the BFSB isn't doesn't automatically mean you're offering too big a price.
Yes, but that wasn't what I said. It's just that you'll be more likely to be matched at a price that's too high.
The only positive thing to have come out of BF's responses is that they are looking at ways to address the decline on the side markets.
Yep, primarily through cross market cross matching with the result being side markets will be perfectly priced. A lot of people will be put out of business by it. There's no chance they'll give a PC tax-break. They tried it with rugby and Spanish football and I'm assuming it didn't work. Any efforts to reignite side markets will be Betfair becoming more involved and will probably be detrimental to layers/market makers.
Yes, but that wasn't what I said. It's just that you'll be more likely to be matched at a price that's too high.
The only positive thing to have come out of BF's responses is that they are looking at ways to address the decline on the side markets.
Yep, primarily through cross market cross matching with the result being side markets will be perfectly priced. A lot of people will be put out of business by it. There's no chance they'll give a PC tax-break. They tried it with rugby and Spanish football and I'm assuming it didn't work. Any efforts to reignite side markets will be Betfair becoming more involved and will probably be detrimental to layers/market makers.
I asked in the forum chat if pc charges could be made monthly, to aggregate the payments and credits. Betfairs reply was people didn't want to keep a such high balance - which I find very hard to believe.
The trial on Spanish football was never likely to work. More than one week I ended up worse off because of it.
The trial on Spanish football was never likely to work. More than one week I ended up worse off because of it.
Yeah, I actually commented on that question on Twitter. I've suggested monthly to them before and am more than willing to ensure there's enough money in my account.
It shows how little understanding they have as when they initially set up the rugby trial (can't remember if was same time as Spanish football) there was an easy work around to slash PC overall. Rather than admit their stupidity, they complained we weren't playing fair! The very definition of hypocrisy.
It shows how little understanding they have as when they initially set up the rugby trial (can't remember if was same time as Spanish football) there was an easy work around to slash PC overall. Rather than admit their stupidity, they complained we weren't playing fair! The very definition of hypocrisy.
i do not believe that BF encourage punters to move from the SB to the exchange as why spend all the advertising money solely on the SB,also how would they then sell the exchange to these punters with the negative impact of the PC if you are successful,it is far easier for Betfair to offer punters poor odds on the SB then manage the risk and guarantee profit.
Templeton - You may well be right about the XMXM being what they were referring to, but my own impression was that they were talking about something more.
On a personal level, it would be impossible to apply XMXM to almost any of the side markets which I would have previously priced up in-play.
If they want people to play on these markets, something is going to have to give. It's as simple as that, because without layers they've got nothing.
Roache - If they were only bothered about laying poor odds themselves, they would not have introduced Price Rush.
I've said it before: I don't for one minute believe that BF's end game is to end up as "just another bookmaker".
I still can't believe, though, that they think the lifetime numbers they set almost half of BF's existence ago are the ones they should be using now to consider whether, and/or how much, someone should be paying PC or not.... Let's be honest, who is still able to operate today the way they could back in 2005? Not me, for sure!
On a personal level, it would be impossible to apply XMXM to almost any of the side markets which I would have previously priced up in-play.
If they want people to play on these markets, something is going to have to give. It's as simple as that, because without layers they've got nothing.
Roache - If they were only bothered about laying poor odds themselves, they would not have introduced Price Rush.
I've said it before: I don't for one minute believe that BF's end game is to end up as "just another bookmaker".
I still can't believe, though, that they think the lifetime numbers they set almost half of BF's existence ago are the ones they should be using now to consider whether, and/or how much, someone should be paying PC or not.... Let's be honest, who is still able to operate today the way they could back in 2005? Not me, for sure!
roache
01 Feb 15 22:02
i do not believe that BF encourage punters to move from the SB to the exchange as why spend all the advertising money solely on the SB,also how would they then sell the exchange to these punters with the negative impact of the PC if you are successful,it is far easier for Betfair to offer punters poor odds on the SB then manage the risk and guarantee profit.
I believe them when they say they will encourage punters but it'll only be those who require restricting on the Sportsbook. They won't even mention the premium charge, they only do when you've got to hand over your money.
01 Feb 15 22:02
i do not believe that BF encourage punters to move from the SB to the exchange as why spend all the advertising money solely on the SB,also how would they then sell the exchange to these punters with the negative impact of the PC if you are successful,it is far easier for Betfair to offer punters poor odds on the SB then manage the risk and guarantee profit.
I believe them when they say they will encourage punters but it'll only be those who require restricting on the Sportsbook. They won't even mention the premium charge, they only do when you've got to hand over your money.
Latalomne - what do you think they'll do? They haven't done a single thing to help people like us and I'm not sure why that would change.
I'm the same as you, I've consciously moved towards working on side markets that can't be perfectly priced by being linked to a main market. However, I've been told XMXM will be coming to some sports where I can't see a single market where they can do it perfectly. That concerns me.
I'm the same as you, I've consciously moved towards working on side markets that can't be perfectly priced by being linked to a main market. However, I've been told XMXM will be coming to some sports where I can't see a single market where they can do it perfectly. That concerns me.
I'm not sure. As JML pointed out above, and I admit it may just be as a result of how the question was framed, they did only talk specifically about not altering how the 50 and 60% PC bands are applied. It is fair to assume (though I concede there will be exceptions) that the vast majority of those paying those levels of PC have some sort of technological advantage (most likely fast pics/quicker than market data). They are the ones that BF should really be targeting with PC.
Technically the likes of "us", whilst falling within their criteria, still add something positive to the ecosystem as a whole. Maybe it's wishful thinking to hope that they are finally going to recognise that....?
Interesting comments re XMXM.... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Technically the likes of "us", whilst falling within their criteria, still add something positive to the ecosystem as a whole. Maybe it's wishful thinking to hope that they are finally going to recognise that....?
Interesting comments re XMXM.... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Correct Latalomne,the 40%ers are more likely the ones that
can take their buisness elsewhere.
On the 5th of December I recieved an email from my account
manager stating that around 20 customers were currently
on a trial and everything was hunky-dory.
In my reply on the 8th Dec,I explained why this scheme had
not been carefully thought out.
No reply to date.
I've been a Betfair customer since the very early days (2000),
and from my experience you should take anything
Betfair says with a pinch of salt.
On many occasions this forum,within a very short time,have found
faults/loopholes in new schemes/ideas,and most probably any future
schemes will be the work of the very same people.
can take their buisness elsewhere.
On the 5th of December I recieved an email from my account
manager stating that around 20 customers were currently
on a trial and everything was hunky-dory.
In my reply on the 8th Dec,I explained why this scheme had
not been carefully thought out.
No reply to date.
I've been a Betfair customer since the very early days (2000),
and from my experience you should take anything
Betfair says with a pinch of salt.
On many occasions this forum,within a very short time,have found
faults/loopholes in new schemes/ideas,and most probably any future
schemes will be the work of the very same people.
Betfair has become complacent and arrogant at the top which will inevitably be their downfall as the betting industry will not stand still.
New technology is relentless and only a matter of time before a new well funded entrant appears. When this happens, Betfair is quickly finished as customer goodwill is now non existent. Once the stampede out the door starts, there will be no incentives that will work to get customers back.
The customer base no longer has any faith or trust in Betfair Mgt and it is quite clear that Betfair do not give a shyte about customer satisfaction.
The journey towards the end of the cliff has now started.
New technology is relentless and only a matter of time before a new well funded entrant appears. When this happens, Betfair is quickly finished as customer goodwill is now non existent. Once the stampede out the door starts, there will be no incentives that will work to get customers back.
The customer base no longer has any faith or trust in Betfair Mgt and it is quite clear that Betfair do not give a shyte about customer satisfaction.
The journey towards the end of the cliff has now started.
Latalomne - they said they wouldn't be changing the 50%/60% rates in response to a specific question about those two rates. They say earlier on the chat there are no plans to change the Premium Charge. Whilst I agree only those with a real advantage who can't take their business elsewhere should be charged, I don't think this will happen. I'm afraid it is wishful thinking.
JML, are you able to expand on what it is they're doing differently? It's not just a different method of taking the same amount of money, is it?
Westender, what do you think someone will offer that ****/Matchbook aren't?
JML, are you able to expand on what it is they're doing differently? It's not just a different method of taking the same amount of money, is it?
Westender, what do you think someone will offer that ****/Matchbook aren't?
There is an increasing gap in the market for a guaranteed risk free profitable business along with a large customer base completely hacked off with the existing monopoly.
This is increasingly noticeable within the betting industry and there are smart people out there who will strike hard when the time is right.
I would be suprised if the landscape does not look completely different within 3 years.
A small Bet Square struggling in a saturated market will be all that is left.
This is increasingly noticeable within the betting industry and there are smart people out there who will strike hard when the time is right.
I would be suprised if the landscape does not look completely different within 3 years.
A small Bet Square struggling in a saturated market will be all that is left.
Do you know anything about Bet.Me? All I know is they're launching an exchange and have been working on it for a number of years.
Yes I did hear there was new businesses in the pipeline that are more serious than Purple and Smarkets.
Hopefully there is a new home for Betfair Exchange customers sooner rather than later.
Once people have moved to a better place, trust has totally gone in Betfair and even 1% commission, no premium charges and scrapping the Sportsbook will not entice people back.
Hopefully there is a new home for Betfair Exchange customers sooner rather than later.
Once people have moved to a better place, trust has totally gone in Betfair and even 1% commission, no premium charges and scrapping the Sportsbook will not entice people back.
Correct Templeton Peck,diffrent way to collect the same money.
Main fault is that in reality,Betfair would collect less.
Westender,you won't get a more well funded entrant than
Betda* was many years ago.
The fact that they have tried everything and failed
will stop anyone else trying.
Matchbook is a bookmaker disguised as an exchange and will
remain so as long as they charge commission on every bet.
Main fault is that in reality,Betfair would collect less.
Westender,you won't get a more well funded entrant than
Betda* was many years ago.
The fact that they have tried everything and failed
will stop anyone else trying.
Matchbook is a bookmaker disguised as an exchange and will
remain so as long as they charge commission on every bet.
And if they did succed it wouldn't be long before
PC was introduced.
PC was introduced.
Purple was launched when Betfair was so popular with the customer base and the Exchange was the only priority.
A new entrant has a great chance now as the Betfair Exchange is way down the list of priorities and the customer base are simply waiting for a new home to appear.
There is rarely a good future for any business that treats its customer base as a piece of shyte.
Five years ago, people thought that there would be no alternative to the Apple Iphone and look at the market now.
The betting industry is no different.
A new entrant has a great chance now as the Betfair Exchange is way down the list of priorities and the customer base are simply waiting for a new home to appear.
There is rarely a good future for any business that treats its customer base as a piece of shyte.
Five years ago, people thought that there would be no alternative to the Apple Iphone and look at the market now.
The betting industry is no different.
What do you think the purpose of Lads buying purple was? They have done absolutely nothing with it. Aside from some racing, I can't ever see them even advertise.
Lads are a waste of space as was the Purple mob before them.
Purple did not even get started and failed to mount a challenge to Betfair when provided with an open goal.
The lack of balls shown by both is why Betfair have been able to stiff customers and do what they want.
Betfair and **** the past when the new home of betting appears.
Purple did not even get started and failed to mount a challenge to Betfair when provided with an open goal.
The lack of balls shown by both is why Betfair have been able to stiff customers and do what they want.
Betfair and **** the past when the new home of betting appears.
Sorry Westender,but that's a load of rubbish.
There is already a new home if one was wanted.
The only customers that really want a new home are the ones that don't matter.
Take a customer that bets £2,£10,£100 or £1000 per race or televised football match.
For these customers Betfair hasn't changed in a decade.
It still offers the best one-stop value.
It's just rediculous to make comparisons between exchange and mobile phone buisnesses.
The bottom line is **** have spent 10s of millions trying
to get the fish to move from Betfair,and have failed miserably.
There is already a new home if one was wanted.
The only customers that really want a new home are the ones that don't matter.
Take a customer that bets £2,£10,£100 or £1000 per race or televised football match.
For these customers Betfair hasn't changed in a decade.
It still offers the best one-stop value.
It's just rediculous to make comparisons between exchange and mobile phone buisnesses.
The bottom line is **** have spent 10s of millions trying
to get the fish to move from Betfair,and have failed miserably.
Betfair still offers the best one-stop value
1. The Sportsbook offers the worst value prices seen in the Betting Industry and even restricts new customers.
2. The Exchange liquidity has been in serious decline month by month for 6 years now and even the blind can see it.
3. People that bet £2, £10, or even £200 are back at the bookmakers now as Betfair no longer offer the best prices de to liquidity decline.
4. Purple have failed to advertise and/or offer enough markets and incentives for new customers.
Betfair has driven/continues to drive their own customer base away and competition between Purple/Lads has been like Real Madrid v Cambridge United.
The current environment is ripe for change and opportunities as it was pre Betfair.
Betfair has had a good run but the world does not stand still and three years from now - Betfair will finally become Bet Square.
The world survived before Betfair and does not need Bet Square to survive.
1. The Sportsbook offers the worst value prices seen in the Betting Industry and even restricts new customers.
2. The Exchange liquidity has been in serious decline month by month for 6 years now and even the blind can see it.
3. People that bet £2, £10, or even £200 are back at the bookmakers now as Betfair no longer offer the best prices de to liquidity decline.
4. Purple have failed to advertise and/or offer enough markets and incentives for new customers.
Betfair has driven/continues to drive their own customer base away and competition between Purple/Lads has been like Real Madrid v Cambridge United.
The current environment is ripe for change and opportunities as it was pre Betfair.
Betfair has had a good run but the world does not stand still and three years from now - Betfair will finally become Bet Square.
The world survived before Betfair and does not need Bet Square to survive.
1)I thought we were talking about exchanges and potential new
competition to Betfair.
If it is such a laughable statement it shouldn't have been
difficult for you name at least one better place.
Must have slipped your mind but maybe you'll let us know
in your next post.
2/3)Totally irrelevant to the customers that matter.
Best prices/value has everything to do with the % at the top of the page and if someone wants a £100 bet he doesn't care if
there is £500 or £50000 on offer.
On markets with a fair number of selections,I've found that
the prices on offer are slightly better that they were about
5/6 years ago.
That is certainly the case in the correct score,round betting and golf win markets.
You can rant on about liquidity as much as you like,the only
thing that counts is turnover and to date no one has supplied
any statistics that turnover is falling.
4)Total proof that you have no idea what you are talking
about.They have spent millions,and still do, on advertising and past incentives have included zero commission.
With the exception of a few PC payers there is absolutely
no evidence that Betfair have driven anyone away.
competition to Betfair.
If it is such a laughable statement it shouldn't have been
difficult for you name at least one better place.
Must have slipped your mind but maybe you'll let us know
in your next post.
2/3)Totally irrelevant to the customers that matter.
Best prices/value has everything to do with the % at the top of the page and if someone wants a £100 bet he doesn't care if
there is £500 or £50000 on offer.
On markets with a fair number of selections,I've found that
the prices on offer are slightly better that they were about
5/6 years ago.
That is certainly the case in the correct score,round betting and golf win markets.
You can rant on about liquidity as much as you like,the only
thing that counts is turnover and to date no one has supplied
any statistics that turnover is falling.
4)Total proof that you have no idea what you are talking
about.They have spent millions,and still do, on advertising and past incentives have included zero commission.
With the exception of a few PC payers there is absolutely
no evidence that Betfair have driven anyone away.
Go to Specsavers mate and you will see the empty boxes and large gaps in prices in the blue and pink boxes when priced up.
**** spent millions on advertising and still do?
With the exception of a few full time winners on Betfair, people don't need Betfair. There is a plethora of opportunities for betting outside Betfair and that is where the money is increasingly going now.
Betfair is yesterday's innovation and in the decline stage of business.
Welcome to Bet Square - unless you are a winner.
**** spent millions on advertising and still do?
With the exception of a few full time winners on Betfair, people don't need Betfair. There is a plethora of opportunities for betting outside Betfair and that is where the money is increasingly going now.
Betfair is yesterday's innovation and in the decline stage of business.
Welcome to Bet Square - unless you are a winner.
The proof is in the pudding as follows:
1. The former leader of in-play betting is now miles behind the bookmakers now on the range of football matches and markets.
2. The Live Video Contract is grossly inferior compared to the Bookmakers, has been cut to the bone and shows next to no football these days.
3. The Exchange has been hidden away on www.betfair.com from potential new customers.
4. The Exchange has not been advertised at all since the Betfair Sportsbook has been launched.
5. There are now increasing numbers of football matches in-play on the Betfair Sportsbook but NOT the Exchange.
6. Best prices frequently no longer available on Betfair due to liquidity decline.
7. Betfair customer base totally hacked off.
The worst of all is that Betfair Mgt are delighted.
1. The former leader of in-play betting is now miles behind the bookmakers now on the range of football matches and markets.
2. The Live Video Contract is grossly inferior compared to the Bookmakers, has been cut to the bone and shows next to no football these days.
3. The Exchange has been hidden away on www.betfair.com from potential new customers.
4. The Exchange has not been advertised at all since the Betfair Sportsbook has been launched.
5. There are now increasing numbers of football matches in-play on the Betfair Sportsbook but NOT the Exchange.
6. Best prices frequently no longer available on Betfair due to liquidity decline.
7. Betfair customer base totally hacked off.
The worst of all is that Betfair Mgt are delighted.
If the above was not enough. Australian markets are now hidden away and no longer appear on the In-Play Coupons for any sport.
This started a few weeks ago - coincidentally after the Australian Exchange was sold.
Your only hope is that UK Exchange is sold soon but new entrants are the future anyway.
This started a few weeks ago - coincidentally after the Australian Exchange was sold.
Your only hope is that UK Exchange is sold soon but new entrants are the future anyway.
The recent forum chat response in the link below sums Betfair up completely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAOHXSpE-v0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAOHXSpE-v0
3. People that bet £2, £10, or even £200 are back at the bookmakers now as Betfair no longer offer the best prices due to liquidity decline.
I would guess that at least 99% of punters aren't price sensitive. Most folk I know just keep a balance in their bookie of choice and never move elsewhere. A winner's a winner to them.
It's clear that you're annoyed at the way that Betfair has changed. What have you done to adapt?
I would guess that at least 99% of punters aren't price sensitive. Most folk I know just keep a balance in their bookie of choice and never move elsewhere. A winner's a winner to them.
It's clear that you're annoyed at the way that Betfair has changed. What have you done to adapt?
The truth is somewhere between the views of Westender and JML.
People have left and many markets have been all but killed off. The talk of liquidity/turnover being fine is probably a result of increased activity in match odds for a number of sports, especially cricket.
Ten markets which have gone from £10,000 matched to £100 matched is a huge difference to punters in those market but in terms of overall liquidity/turnover it is more than offset by an increase from £5m to £50m for a match odds mkt in cricket.
Most PC payers would jump at the chance of moving their money to a competitor but the chances of a realistic competitor are slim. Purple really haven't come close to doing what they should to attract new business. Nobody here has come close to explaining what a competitor would need to do and persuade us it's a realistic proposition.
Casual punters are more likely to have moved away because of the Sportsbook rather than price competition. Empty markets are also a cause. Look at Purple, most people don't bother to head over there as in the past the markets have been dead. Even if markets there were flourishing, most people wouldn't know as they don't regularly check.
I think the future is pretty much as Betfair have told us. The Sportsbook will grow and they will push the smarter customers to the exchange. Price Rush will increase liquidity. XMXM will increase liquidity but will kill off anyone who was previously laying/market-making those markets. The exchange will become more of a shark tank and those who take a rather amateurish approach - and I put myself in that category - will suffer. So will many bot operators as Betfair take their business for themselves (which they can do as they obviously don't have the issue of commission).
This is all short term. Longer term I expect Betfair to expand their XMXM to taking over side markets which aren't perfectly correlated to the main markets. For example, you can't directly link tennis match odds to tennis handicaps but you can get a close approximation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Betfair XMXM this market mixed in with an approach similar to Pinnacle where the XMXM bot would alter as it takes money on either side.
What I can say for certain is Betfair will become more involved in the exchange rather than leaving it to the customers. Whilst I'd love them to scrap the PC, slash commission rates, and clearly split it from the Sportsbook, these things will not happen.
People have left and many markets have been all but killed off. The talk of liquidity/turnover being fine is probably a result of increased activity in match odds for a number of sports, especially cricket.
Ten markets which have gone from £10,000 matched to £100 matched is a huge difference to punters in those market but in terms of overall liquidity/turnover it is more than offset by an increase from £5m to £50m for a match odds mkt in cricket.
Most PC payers would jump at the chance of moving their money to a competitor but the chances of a realistic competitor are slim. Purple really haven't come close to doing what they should to attract new business. Nobody here has come close to explaining what a competitor would need to do and persuade us it's a realistic proposition.
Casual punters are more likely to have moved away because of the Sportsbook rather than price competition. Empty markets are also a cause. Look at Purple, most people don't bother to head over there as in the past the markets have been dead. Even if markets there were flourishing, most people wouldn't know as they don't regularly check.
I think the future is pretty much as Betfair have told us. The Sportsbook will grow and they will push the smarter customers to the exchange. Price Rush will increase liquidity. XMXM will increase liquidity but will kill off anyone who was previously laying/market-making those markets. The exchange will become more of a shark tank and those who take a rather amateurish approach - and I put myself in that category - will suffer. So will many bot operators as Betfair take their business for themselves (which they can do as they obviously don't have the issue of commission).
This is all short term. Longer term I expect Betfair to expand their XMXM to taking over side markets which aren't perfectly correlated to the main markets. For example, you can't directly link tennis match odds to tennis handicaps but you can get a close approximation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Betfair XMXM this market mixed in with an approach similar to Pinnacle where the XMXM bot would alter as it takes money on either side.
What I can say for certain is Betfair will become more involved in the exchange rather than leaving it to the customers. Whilst I'd love them to scrap the PC, slash commission rates, and clearly split it from the Sportsbook, these things will not happen.
In brief I expect liquidity to increase but in a way which will hurt the overwhelming majority of people reading this.
The logical flaw in the oft-repeated 'we PC payers should all take our business to [this week's favourite exchange]' is that you're proposing taking a whole bunch of big winners to a new space. Where are the huge pile of losers those winners need to feed from meant to come from?
The reality is that Winners and Losers are now better off elsewhere due to markets no longer forming properly due to relentless liquidity decline. Best price no longer applicable.
The only winner on here, with the exception of a few Super Bot users, is Betfair PLC.
99.99% of people on here can no longer earn the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair
The only winner on here, with the exception of a few Super Bot users, is Betfair PLC.
99.99% of people on here can no longer earn the minimum wage per hour spent on Betfair
betfair is crap, there's no one left. only worthwhile for big premiership football matches on a saturday 5.30pm or sunday. european league are all dire. real madrid, barcelona, bayern munich, juventus, psg matches are empty.
Westender - do you ever answer any questions that are directed at you, or just continue to spout your anti-Betfair rhetoric without reading the thread? Makes discussion difficult when you come out with all of these opinions put across as facts and nothing else.
My definition of a winner is someone who can consistently earn the minimum wage or above per hour spent on Betfair.
My answer is Betfair PLC plus a few super BOT users.
Show me the huge list of winners meeting the criteria in line 1 Rob!!!!!!
My answer is Betfair PLC plus a few super BOT users.
Show me the huge list of winners meeting the criteria in line 1 Rob!!!!!!
Westender, I don't use a bot or even an API and I earn more than the min wage per hour. It's not difficult, but it is becoming tougher.
There are a few exceptions mate but not many now after the PC charges kick in.
Certainly not a very long list.
Certainly not a very long list.
it's not so much about earning the minimum wage westender ,but how you earn it .
I would rather not work for a company even if they paid 4x as much, i enjoy the betting side - albeit frustrating at times on here .
as for the forum chat -
what can i say ?
answers all look pre -rehearsed to me . Probably on a template ready for the next session
I would rather not work for a company even if they paid 4x as much, i enjoy the betting side - albeit frustrating at times on here .
as for the forum chat -
what can i say ?
answers all look pre -rehearsed to me . Probably on a template ready for the next session
You have also seen through Betfair Mgt Coach
Emails requested up front, ignore questions they don't want to answer and then give them the same stock answers form the first Q and A years ago but add in a bit of sarcasm to make the answers feel different.
The top man from Daddy Flower making his mark
Emails requested up front, ignore questions they don't want to answer and then give them the same stock answers form the first Q and A years ago but add in a bit of sarcasm to make the answers feel different.
The top man from Daddy Flower making his mark
I make more than minimum wage per hour spent, else I wouldn't do it. Do you? If not, why are you posting on here and decreasing your bottom line even further? What have you done to adapt in the face of the increasing difficulty of making money on here?
I do Rob and what I have done to adapt is to bet as much as possible elsewhere to avoid the premium charges.
Betfair Customer Services 29 Jan 15 09:41
Thanks to everyone who submitted a question. We really appreciate you taking the time to join us and look forward to hosting another session towards the end of the year.
The customer is always at the heart of everything we do so feedback like this is really important, both good and bad.
Betfair need a small tweak to the above which reflects reality as follows:
The customer's money is always at the heart of everything we do
Thanks to everyone who submitted a question. We really appreciate you taking the time to join us and look forward to hosting another session towards the end of the year.
The customer is always at the heart of everything we do so feedback like this is really important, both good and bad.
Betfair need a small tweak to the above which reflects reality as follows:
The customer's money is always at the heart of everything we do
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539