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10 Oct 14
14:09
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Date Joined:
17 Sep 02
I receieved this email today informing me Betfair will expand their cross-matching to related markets. Another step towards moving out those of us trying to earn a living on here:
Cross Market Liquidity Pooling
Over the years customers have often commented on how weak some of our secondary markets are compared with the main markets such as Match Odds. We also understand customers would get more involved in those markets if they could trade out in-play, but they’re concerned the liquidity won’t be there.
To improve liquidity Betfair will shortly be trialling improved matching technology. The goal of the project is to ensure that if you have an unmatched bet, we advertise it to other customers in every way possible. Perhaps the simplest example would be the home team in Match Odds, and the same team -0.5 Asian Handicap. Currently if you place a bet on the Match Odds today, and if it’s unmatched we will only advertise the bet in Match Odds. The same is true of Asian Handicap.
With the new bet matcher, if your bet is unmatched in Match Odds we’ll also show it in the Asian Handicap -0.5 line for customers to match there. The reverse will also be true: if your Asian Handicap -0.5 bet is unmatched, we’ll make it available for other customers to match not just there but in the Match Odds market too. Note that your bet will still only be matched once, with whoever requests the bet first.
That’s a simple example, but in practice the range of bets we will show and match will be much wider. The first sport to see liquidity pooling will be Football and initially this will apply to four markets: Match Odds, Draw No Bet, Double Chance and the -0.5 to +0.5 lines in the Asian Handicap.
Cross Market Liquidity Pooling
Over the years customers have often commented on how weak some of our secondary markets are compared with the main markets such as Match Odds. We also understand customers would get more involved in those markets if they could trade out in-play, but they’re concerned the liquidity won’t be there.
To improve liquidity Betfair will shortly be trialling improved matching technology. The goal of the project is to ensure that if you have an unmatched bet, we advertise it to other customers in every way possible. Perhaps the simplest example would be the home team in Match Odds, and the same team -0.5 Asian Handicap. Currently if you place a bet on the Match Odds today, and if it’s unmatched we will only advertise the bet in Match Odds. The same is true of Asian Handicap.
With the new bet matcher, if your bet is unmatched in Match Odds we’ll also show it in the Asian Handicap -0.5 line for customers to match there. The reverse will also be true: if your Asian Handicap -0.5 bet is unmatched, we’ll make it available for other customers to match not just there but in the Match Odds market too. Note that your bet will still only be matched once, with whoever requests the bet first.
That’s a simple example, but in practice the range of bets we will show and match will be much wider. The first sport to see liquidity pooling will be Football and initially this will apply to four markets: Match Odds, Draw No Bet, Double Chance and the -0.5 to +0.5 lines in the Asian Handicap.
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It's a good idea. Something I would have suggested to them a long time ago if I A) thought they would listen to my idea, and B) deserved to get good ideas for free.
Oh, and Betfair never email me information about anything, so thanks for posting.
That was the reason they touted when they first brought out cross matching but it never happened and was just used to skimp off the exchange. Guess they're now getting desperate to prop up the balance sheet and looking to steal any pennies going.
Trouble is it's just so short sighted like the x-matcher, the x match/market only ever takes money and doesn't put money into the exchange whereas all the players they've driven away with penny pinching/pc etc were the ones who actually put liquidity into the exchange. The markets naturally ran at small spreads with people continually playing to tight margins but most have now left and taken the liquidity with them.
Trouble is it's just so short sighted like the x-matcher, the x match/market only ever takes money and doesn't put money into the exchange whereas all the players they've driven away with penny pinching/pc etc were the ones who actually put liquidity into the exchange. The markets naturally ran at small spreads with people continually playing to tight margins but most have now left and taken the liquidity with them.
I agree it's a good idea. As I understand it, it's fundamentally different to when they introduced the x-matcher- back then they simply replaced the bots people had already introduced and thus took money that previously their customers had been making, whereas now because of their per-market commission structure they are able to provide liquidity in situations people's bots couldn't without making a loss?
Also how are they going to apply this to Draw No Bet if it's only the 0.5 lines in the AH they are applying it to?
They say "the -0.5 to +0.5 lines in the Asian Handicap". That might include *Home team* -0, and *Away team* -0.
It's bad news for anyone who arbitrages between markets, a simple but effective method to a) make money b) reduce PC payments. For now they'll use it on empty markets, but soon they'll be replacing bots/manual arbitrage punters on more liquid markets.
It's good news for anyone who wants a punt.
It's good news for anyone who wants a punt.
The X matcher is still far from perfect. Try putting lays on all Outcomes into an empty market with multi-runners (say 4). Your lays appear on the Back Side (obviously) and if you lay to say 110% what would you expect the X matcher to show on the Lay side?
The result shows you how much would disappear ...
Maybe I'm being harsh and the latest update to the X matcher will massively improve this "feature" as well. Will wait and see.
The result shows you how much would disappear ...
Maybe I'm being harsh and the latest update to the X matcher will massively improve this "feature" as well. Will wait and see.
Oct 10, 2014 -- 4:42PM, jabmast wrote:
The X matcher is still far from perfect. Try putting lays on all Outcomes into an empty market with multi-runners (say 4). Your lays appear on the Back Side (obviously) and if you lay to say 110% what would you expect the X matcher to show on the Lay side?The result shows you how much would disappear ...Maybe I'm being harsh and the latest update to the X matcher will massively improve this "feature" as well. Will wait and see.
That shouldn't matter but it seems that Betfair only apply the crossmatch rebate payments on the Australian markets.
Oct 10, 2014 -- 3:34PM, Ghetto Joe wrote:
That was the reason they touted when they first brought out cross matching but it never happened and was just used to skimp off the exchange. Guess they're now getting desperate to prop up the balance sheet and looking to steal any pennies going. Trouble is it's just so short sighted like the x-matcher, the x match/market only ever takes money and doesn't put money into the exchange whereas all the players they've driven away with penny pinching/pc etc were the ones who actually put liquidity into the exchange. The markets naturally ran at small spreads with people continually playing to tight margins but most have now left and taken the liquidity with them.
You have nailed it mate - any changes since 2008 have been to increase Betfair's share of the cake until all that was left was for Exchange customers to fight over the crumbs.
It now looks like Betfair are after the crumbs as well now.
Oct 10, 2014 -- 3:51PM, namwob22000 wrote:
Also how are they going to apply this to Draw No Bet if it's only the 0.5 lines in the AH they are applying it to?
In Match Odds: Bet x amount on Home Team and lay Away team for the same backer's stake x. Voila! Draw No Bet.
For sure they will also include AH+-0 [also AH+-0.25 presumably] but in reality all the liquidity will be coming from Match Odds.
When are they starting this? I see no sign of it. They don't even cross-match within the same AH line, let alone across markets.
"We hope to load the first matches using this new logic early in November, but how widely and quickly we roll this out will depend on how testing goes between now and then. Of course we need to test not only that the logic works as expected, but that performance is good too and above all our customers are safeguarded."
So they say 4 football markets but any ideas which others bf could link. Many similar markets have slightly different rules eg tennis retirements, football abandonments.
@sun - are you sure about:
"They don't even cross-match within the same AH line"
I've just been playing around on
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/football/market?id=1.115810111
and it was fairly clear if I asked for a higher back price on Scotland than available, that generated a lay offer on Scotland and the corresponding XM back offer on Poland.
"They don't even cross-match within the same AH line"
I've just been playing around on
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/football/market?id=1.115810111
and it was fairly clear if I asked for a higher back price on Scotland than available, that generated a lay offer on Scotland and the corresponding XM back offer on Poland.
The example they give is simple but they will be able to cross-match from several markets once they start stacking up the alogorithms.
longbridge, I am not certain. I think I may even have looked at the same market yesterday and immediately noticed that there was clearly no cross-matching (based upon, say, three back offers at widely different prices but only one lay offer on the other side).
Possibly the cross-matcher hadn't 'woken up' yet.
It sure looks like it is cross-matched now. There is a bot active, though, so you can't be totally certain who is responsible.
Possibly the cross-matcher hadn't 'woken up' yet.
It sure looks like it is cross-matched now. There is a bot active, though, so you can't be totally certain who is responsible.
Not many markets can be cross matched. Can anyone post some none obvious examples as I'm struggling to find some. It's a good idea though.
Each of the Over/Unders with one line of Total Goals.
Team A +1, +2, +3 , each with multiple lines of AH and/or Match Odds
Under 0.5 with Correct Score 0-0, which is also Next Goal (No Goal) until the first goal is scored, after which No Goal becomes the same as Under 1.5 / CS 1-0, etc etc
Team A +1, +2, +3 , each with multiple lines of AH and/or Match Odds
Under 0.5 with Correct Score 0-0, which is also Next Goal (No Goal) until the first goal is scored, after which No Goal becomes the same as Under 1.5 / CS 1-0, etc etc
Sorry those were obvious examples. But there are quite a few of those. They'll have their hands full just doing the obvious ones.
Total goals needs 7 or more goals to be settled, correct score needs any unquoted (although this is changing so cs will be open all match I believe) where as o/u and next goal are settled immediately. Obviously abandonments are very rare but if it looks slightly possible then people bet overs or lay no next goal and bf could be left significantly out of pocket?
Good point.
They can still crossmatch the Unders bets and Overs lays with Total Goals. Why is cs changing, do you know? Is it related to this?
They can still crossmatch the Unders bets and Overs lays with Total Goals. Why is cs changing, do you know? Is it related to this?
Correct score markets explanation from Betfair:
We currently offer all quoted scores from 0-0 to 3-3 in Football Correct Score (C/S) markets, with “Any Unquoted” listed as a selection to cover all possible scores where one or both teams scores four or more goals. In many situations, perhaps where one team is a strong favourite like Barcelona at home to Elche, “Any Unquoted” will be the favourite in that market. It’s effectively an inexact proxy for “Barcelona to win and score heavily”.
We’ve had some customer feedback asking for “Any Unquoted” to be split into three selections, “Any Other Home”, “Any Other Away” and “Any Other Draw”. That would give customers more choice – those who wanted to back just Barcelona to score a hatful should get a slightly better price, while those who still want to bet on (or against) all three outcomes can dutch them.
We are going to trial running correct score markets with those three selections instead of “Any Unquoted” later this year. With football markets offered every day at this time of year there will never be a point where we don’t already have a correct score market loaded on the site, so it won’t be possible to simply switch all markets over to the new selections. That means that we’ll start loading new markets with 19 selections as “Correct Score New”. Already loaded markets will remain as they are now, with 17 selections and called “Correct Score”. Once all correct score markets with “Any Unquoted” have been settled, all correct score markets will have the new template and we’ll rename them all simply “Correct Score” as now.
We currently offer all quoted scores from 0-0 to 3-3 in Football Correct Score (C/S) markets, with “Any Unquoted” listed as a selection to cover all possible scores where one or both teams scores four or more goals. In many situations, perhaps where one team is a strong favourite like Barcelona at home to Elche, “Any Unquoted” will be the favourite in that market. It’s effectively an inexact proxy for “Barcelona to win and score heavily”.
We’ve had some customer feedback asking for “Any Unquoted” to be split into three selections, “Any Other Home”, “Any Other Away” and “Any Other Draw”. That would give customers more choice – those who wanted to back just Barcelona to score a hatful should get a slightly better price, while those who still want to bet on (or against) all three outcomes can dutch them.
We are going to trial running correct score markets with those three selections instead of “Any Unquoted” later this year. With football markets offered every day at this time of year there will never be a point where we don’t already have a correct score market loaded on the site, so it won’t be possible to simply switch all markets over to the new selections. That means that we’ll start loading new markets with 19 selections as “Correct Score New”. Already loaded markets will remain as they are now, with 17 selections and called “Correct Score”. Once all correct score markets with “Any Unquoted” have been settled, all correct score markets will have the new template and we’ll rename them all simply “Correct Score” as now.
That's an improvement - and it's better if you're trying to lay off lines of your Colossus (aka "Betfair Pools" bets) into the Exch.
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