Investment or just deluded!

if you are not sure to deposit the 10k, it is because you dont know what you will do with it. there is only one outcome sooner or later. you will lose it. Just do something you like in life with the money than losing it here.

Can I ask - do the layers on here (presuming successful) mainly target single position-like lay or multiple (ie closer to making a book)?

King of Dubai
Robust BRM guards against the losses stu.

Yep, though that takes a fair amount of discipline at times, I know.

I personally try and make a book...

In terms of how to deal with big losses, I think it would be silly not to listen to people who have been there done it. I certainly wish I had that option when I was going through. Whether I would have listened is another matter :)

What's wrong with putting 2 grand in and give yourself a year to see how you get on.  No targets just seek what you perceive to be value and work away. If you lose it's something you are comfortable with, it you are up happy days, and if you break even at least it was a hobby that kept you entertained for a year with minimum cost

Layer - amazing how many times you can here 'keep the discipline' from others, think you've got it....then blow all over again!

*hear

I personally try and make a book...

I have never done it strictly, but some analysis and planning I did a couple of years back was into targeting specific horses only, as it seemed more logical. i.e. find a specific weakness/reason for why a horse was not getting the win. Just seemed a simpler (perhaps more motivated) strategy?

If I had £10k I could easily make money from it ... I would just buy up all the outright lays on the snooker events, buy money on ffotball markets. I would not take any risks at all, it would all be 100% winning investments. Horse, oooft, I would stay clear of them mate

How do you describe being able to 'buy money on football markets' Schalke?

Aug 24, 2014 -- 8:22AM, stu wrote:

How do you describe being able to 'buy money on football markets' Schalke?

Plenty people want to lay off in matches, correct score markets, total goals markets ... get the odd one laying off on a result thats already happened

why do people this its easier to make money with bigger banks?

Whats the point of making 2.70 pd,it's neither here nor there, and with 10k potentially at risk from the unpredicables of racing.

It's pure madness on the time eliment alone.

Forget the whole idea is my advice and be thankful youve got 20k.

Remember 'Cash is King'

Get that he mentioned 10% would be equivalent of 2.70 per day - so in essence no reason you would even need 10k to aim for that sort of profit of course.

You could aim for that realistically with a bank of £500

Aug 24, 2014 -- 11:54AM, Northbouy wrote:

why do people this its easier to make money with bigger banks?

Cause it is

Aug 24, 2014 -- 12:43PM, stu wrote:

Get that he mentioned 10% would be equivalent of 2.70 per day - so in essence no reason you would even need 10k to aim for that sort of profit of course.

Good point, you could easily use £300 and do 1x 1.01 bet per day ... easy

That's a slightly more risky (kelly-wise) staking plan than I was thinking Schalke

care to elaborate why it is schalke?

10% of 10k - I will turn for you in one month  - but only using 1k bank ...

Hi and thanks for all your comments, I would be more than happy to share any profits over £2.70/day using my £10k please just tell me how and when to bet!!

Don't forget £2.70/day from a £10k investment is way,way beyond anything you could expect from a bank/building society or even stocks and shares would be difficult! and if you compound 0.3%/month for a few years well, you do the maths! but remember consistency is the key!

Sorry of course that should have read 0.833%/month!

Aug 24, 2014 -- 1:23PM, Northbouy wrote:

care to elaborate why it is schalke?

The bigger the bank the better I can use my system ... check out my thread in general betting, this is the way I bet at the moment ... the more money I had to use the more money it would make. If it had been £10k I could have started with I would be on £5k and not £500 winnings

Aug 24, 2014 -- 4:37PM, GUSCHER wrote:

Hi and thanks for all your comments, I would be more than happy to share any profits over £2.70/day using my £10k please just tell me how and when to bet!!

No no no no no, you can't have £10k and have others telling you what to bet ... if this is your strategy, then please just go to a charity shop and put the £10k in a brown paper bag and walk in it and leave it on the counter

schalke, whats it matter how much you have, your average bet seems to be 1 pound to win pennies.

Thanks Schalke, but where is the fun element in that!!

Also, isn't that what these so called tipsters do, sell you tips. That's another avenue I explored but can their so called verified results be relied upon?

"why do people this its easier to make money with bigger banks?"

one of the more obvious reasons is that you can play in multiple markets at the same time - difficult with a piddly pot

Bigger bank also = greater potential for loss during a tilt period. Prob why on average I'd guess larger banks have actually = larger losses overall on BF history.

Thanks Schalke, but where is the fun element in that!!

You started off the post talking about investments, now you're looking for 'fun' which is slightly revealing...

How does an extra zero in the account turn a mug into a winner?

How does an extra zero in the account turn a mug into a winner?- exactly! Common sense is to play with smaller stakes. If you smart enough (or lucky enough as some people think) to gain an edge then up your game. Am sure the biggest losers in the history of BF have had the biggest banks to play with.

I am in a similar situation to you Guscher and I would never consider leaving money in the bank unless I have got millions and retired, you could start a small part-time business with it do a million things that can bring you a fair return in the long term.

With regards to betfair and I have been on a bit longer than you its all about discipline and expectation and targets imo,when you have 10,000 in your account what you gonna feel like winning £2.70 a day, will you try and push it, will you be satisfied with £2.70? Theoretically you will but in reality? When you lose will you chase it?

So my suggestion is I would go for a higher daily percentage and compund it too for a shorter period of time and if good enough and lucky enough you'd be amazed with the return but crucially you must STOP WHEN THE TARGET IS HIT THAT DAY AND EVERYDAY, switch the ****g thing off, if that all makes any sense!

Aug 24, 2014 -- 10:18PM, Northbouy wrote:

schalke, whats it matter how much you have, your average bet seems to be 1 pound to win pennies.

You quite clearly don't pay attention to details then do you

sorry, for about your chase bets and emergency banks.

Aug 25, 2014 -- 10:25AM, Northbouy wrote:

sorry, for about your chase bets and emergency banks.

Can you repeat that in a properly constructed sentence in English please?

sorry, forgot about your chase bets and emergency banks.

As I said, you don't pay attention to details

told ya it could be done at 22:03...


yesterday 100/1 shot posted tbp = 3rd 100/1

today 100/1 winner posted.... won BFSP 68.0 ish  BF reduction applied!

Guscher, forget it. It's not really that much easier to bet with large sums than small sums. Ultimately, you've got to be getting more back than you're risking, no matter how big or small you're going. 

If you start off with more money, you can certainly accelerate the time it takes to get to big bucks. However, that holds true only if you have a proper working system to begin with. And, it's quite clear from your comments on here that you have no such idea.

In short, don't bother. You'll only lose any money you 'invest' here unless you know what you're doing.  Just put it into wine or something if you want better returns...

Thanks for all the comment and advice, maybe I will just use 25% and give it a go anyway, trouble is 10% profit per year on that hardly seems worth it! but you have to start somewhere!

Out of interest, do you think you've got an edge over the market as a layer? If not, then how will this make money long term? Not knocking your gumption for having a go, but you see what I mean?

Thanks Stu, no edge, just thought the bets are so small, to try and make 10%/year it would be hard to lose it all, or am I deluded as the post heading may suggest?!!

LAYING horses, is extremely difficult to do without having any "edge".

You probably stand a better chance of making a profit if you backed the "middle teens" horse you select in a race, especially at BF SP odds. though, again, without any edge this is also difficult to do.

If you are relying on LUCK , re getting away with a LAY, then eventually a BLACK SWAN day will eat into your bank and you will probably CHASE !

Trust you are taking commission into account on the £2.70 per day figure???

Just cannot see you, without an edge , managing to keep your bank re LAYING "middle teens" odds horses.

Thanks DFC and all, I'm sure you're all right. and I have tried backing gets a bit depressing with long losing runs! think it's a bit psychological with laying as you seem to win so many, so it's a bit of a feel good factor! until the inevitable happens of course. My other system is a lay a day which is working o.k but it takes a long time to recover the losses!

It is certainly a psychological factor - the lack of losing runs I agree. However there is also the psychologically negative factor of taking a big hit at times. That hurts more of course.

Guscher if the money is important to you please don't waste it here. There is no fundamental difference between making a little bit of money and making a lot. I'm sorry to say it but if you haven't made money in the past then there's no reason at all to think you'll be profitable in the future, simply having a small target and plenty of cash won't help you win.

Despite what people say you don't lose because of greed or recklessness, you lose because of fundamental laws of maths. Those laws still apply whatever your attitude and if you don't understand that you're never going to win. 

If it's money you can afford to chuck away then go for it and see it as fun, but it won't ever be an investment.

The bottom line is that the people who make this pay never need to "invest" their savings, they just start with a tiny little bit of cash and build it. If you can't do that then you can't do it at all.

I hope you won't take offence at this - I don't mean to be rude but if your question is sincere then you deserve an honest response, so there it is.

No offence taken at all. I appreciate the advice and all the comments here, I am just surprised to learn that the general consensus seems to be that no matter how big your bank and how ever small your expected  profit you will at some point lose the entire bank, even if you are only trying to profit a few quid a day! So the only way seems to be huge knowledge/inside info? I would purchase some blue chip shares but you don't even know with those, I lost a couple of grand in Northern Rock! Just find the banks a very boring investment! but thanks anyway!

No offence taken at all. I appreciate the advice and all the comments here, I am just surprised to learn that the general consensus seems to be that no matter how big your bank and how ever small your expected  profit you will at some point lose the entire bank, even if you are only trying to profit a few quid a day! So the only way seems to be huge knowledge/inside info? I would purchase some blue chip shares but you don't even know with those, I lost a couple of grand in Northern Rock! Just find the banks a very boring investment! but thanks anyway!

Boring investments are the best investments. If it's not boring you are investing in the wrong place.

I'd say you wouldn't be losing that much Guscher (ie your bank) unless you upped stakes and chased, so fair enough it may be a risk you want to do.

But it does sound more like a hobby to you, rather than an investment. Which is also fine of course. Blimey, some do actually treat betting like a game (unlike the serious players that hover around the GB forum )

I guess betting to win small amounts with a big bank is pretty safe, as long as you don't chase. I only wish I actually had a big bank to start with!

No offence taken at all. I appreciate the advice and all the comments here, I am just surprised to learn that the general consensus seems to be that no matter how big your bank and how ever small your expected  profit you will at some point lose the entire bank, even if you are only trying to profit a few quid a day! So the only way seems to be huge knowledge/inside info



I don't know why people have this idea that it must be possible to go on making small amounts of money, provided you start with a substantial amount. In the long-term, you either have a strategy that sees you getting some sort of value, or you lose the lot.  How else do you expect to win? 

If you punt 1.05 shots all the time, you're still going to lose overall, unless you're extracting some sort of value.    Having a significant amount of money and a small daily target means you can keep doubling up when you lose. But even that strategy will lose in the end.

Sorry to break it to you, but yes, you do need to have 'huge knowledge' - or at least a decent amount of it - in order to make money.  Why should it be otherwise?

Cheers H.J If you keep doubling up how can you lose if you have a limitless bank, you may run out of liquidity in that market, but if you kept piling it on you would get your money back in the end, isn't that why they have limits on the roulette tables?

Commission.

Liquidity
Commission

And, of course, long losing runs. Which aren't common, but will happen. You try and make £2.70 by betting on 2.0 shots and doubling up every time you lose, for instance, and if you lose 11 times in a row, that's your 10K gone. Such runs will come along if you do this on a daily basis.  Bring in some sort of stop loss (say, reset the bet amount if you lose five times in a row) and you'll find yourself hitting that stop loss on a regular basis.

You have to learn to make money before you make money. You can't just turn £10K into a regular daily income simply because you have £10K.

O yer I realize that H.J it was really a theoretical question that with limitless funds and liquidity on the favorite, you couldn't really lose could you? bit like roulette without the higher limit you could keep doubling up and eventually you would win it may well take many many £10K but you be in profit in the end. Bit of a silly hypothesis really because who would be rich enough to £50k (or more) to make £2/day, but even so quite an interesting thought!

This is taken from my other post, it's still doing well, I realize doomed to failure! but it's only profit and some fun, but I don't really want to throw away the other £10k just would like to get a bit more than the banks are offering!!

I only have one laybet a day. If it loses I have made my target profit for the day. If it wins I have lost that day but I spread that loss over the next 3 or 4 days days. I increase my odds range by 50% so that I only get a few bets on per day/or stop at one third or quarter of recovery, but with the increased odds range I should hit fewer winners & with a little luck! this will only happen a few times a month. Although I have had a bad run and it has taken me 21 days (7x3!) to recover (May). But I have made a continual monthly profit so far since January. So I'm not increasing the stake for my recovery bets but just increasing the frequency of bets per day for recovery. I know people don't agree with recovery but I don't see it as recovery as I'm not increasing the stakes. I know it's a bit boring to have only one bet a day and it wouldn't suit everyone's taste, but profit is profit! Has been going well since January with profit running at +£3000 from £30 lay bet with a 90.6 S.R. Cheers

Although must admit August was a bad month! as I spent most of it chasing early losses ended up just £2 up!

HonkyJoe    02 Sep 14 13:10 
I don't know why people have this idea that it must be possible to go on making small amounts of money, provided you start with a substantial amount. In the long-term, you either have a strategy that sees you getting some sort of value, or you lose the lot.  How else do you expect to win? 

--------

This theory comes out all the time (there's a similar thread on the football forum with the same suggestions), that you cant make money with a small a bank, but if you had a large bank its very easy.

"If I had 5k I could make £100 a day with no risk" - These people should be taken to a padded room. Its no surprise they dont have 5k.

Its all a method of chasing, that if you have a few extra zero's in the account it will insulate you from a sequence of losing bets, and you can continue placing the same bets and make money.

Alright Guscher,dont often repply or get involved in the forum,but after reading some of yr comments,i can assure you you can make a good bit of money on here,especially with a bank of 20k,since March due to unforseen circumstances,i now make about 20% profit a month,which i need to do.Would share with you,one to one how easy it can be done.

It's easy of you know what you are doing. You need to have a different betting mind to normal "punters" ...

DONT BE GREEDY .

The dripping tap fills the bucket .

Absolutely agree to that Zealot, Greed is the devil!
Would love to hear your tact  Kid, send me a message if you would like to discuss.

be careful GUSCHER on any advice you get from kid.  My first thought after reading his/her post was Nigerian swindle.

I should add I have no idea who he/she is but I don't want to see anyone on here conned.  Indeed you could be in on it too and your OP was part of the ruse.  I doubt that like.

You are either ungenuine (fishing), ungenuine (sly) or delusional.  Hope you are delusional.  Keep the £20k and spend it on something worthwhile or invest it wisely.

"you can make a good bit of money on here,especially with a bank of 20k,since March due to unforseen circumstances,i now make about 20% profit a month,which i need to do"

To clarify these are highly dubious and doubtful claims, bordering on the ridiculous.  They are unsubstantiated and Imo they are very likely to be bogus.

Thanks Clyde, appreciate the warning and heeded!!

If i had your £20k i would have made £15,000 so far with it in the last 6 months using my system that is in this forum ... simple

That assumes that all your trades would scale up to that level of stake Schalke - not necessarily true.

Well, at present all my stakes are with bookmakers and I'm sure they would accept all the bets ... easy money

£2.70 per day GUSCHER1 would be happy with, ad do a years worth in one day with not a lot of risk ...

the 'kid' statement is a definite con : I know this from the fact it's not written anything like correct English (forgive a spelling mistake for sure, but kid's words don't even constitute intelligible sentences.).  Thats all it takes. That alone does reveal a truth concealed.

'due to unforseen circumstances . . ' lol - that must've fallen wholesale from a 419scam post.

Well spotted, King of Dubai!

K.O.D I am only one!

Thanks again  for the warning Munter

Schalke, I would love to be able to follow your 1/7 system if I had the 24/7 access and the time! Or if you could automate it and send me the bot! but like the post and pleased it's doing well.

Link for image of my results "backfitted" for a year. Compiled by a nice chap on another site. Results seem to be holding up at the moment but I will let you know if those results match the graph in 4 months time! based on system posted here on july8

Sorry that should have read 3rd sept!

Looks about as useful as a trampoline on the moon Guscher

Well you have to reach for the sky eventhough you are more than likely to fall back to earth with a bump!

Is that GUSCHER's opinion too?

Back fitting "Martingale" is dumb, delusional and dangerous.  The graphs are sugar coated bollox. 

If you want to reach for the Sky stick the £20k on someone to win the Champions League.  Sit back and hope for the best.

I may be a gambling novice a have lost a bit of money on the journey so far, but i aint a £20k dumb nut! and I am up almost £3.5k since jan  using that method. I have removed my original bank so if it doesn't work out and I lose the lot it doesn't matter it's only profit at the end of the day.

take the 3.5k and have a great holiday.

Rather have fun losing £3.5k than go on holiday, what real gambler wouldn't!

Me, for starters.

Rather have fun losing £3.5k than go on holiday, what real gambler wouldn't!

One who makes a profit.

Rather have fun losing £3.5k than go on holiday, what real gambler wouldn't!

One who makes a profit.

Glad yr still doing well Guscher,first time on here since my last comment to you,enjoyed reading that i am a Nigerian swindler,one of the reasons not to post things on here,people get easily jealous of others ability to make money.They can clearly see i joined betfair in Feb 2002,any way keep yr profits rolling in and good luck.

£2.70 a day with a 10k bank?

Is this a joke?

Just lay each fav horse racing til u  make it for £2.70 profit on the day, a bank this size will handle loss after  loss till the win comes in.

Thanks, but £2.70 per day from £10k is far in excess of what any bank/building society would give you, so if your statement is true & without risk to your entire bank, then why do people continue to accept the lousy 1-2 %/annum from the banks, why don't they just use Betfair? I mean your above strategy is hardly rocket science!
This is why I asked the question in the first place.

Because it will probably work 99% of the time, the other 1% you lose the lot, you can make £2.70 a day from £100 or less, if you have not got some kind of edge you will lose the lot.

I agree with that Trebor & laying every favourite and chasing is not an edge!!

exactly, its not rocket science.

Greed is the issue here.

There is always an element of risk.

But if you have a bank of 10k and wish to make just £2.70 a day this should be more than achievable given the amount you wish to earn.

Just think how many losers in a row you would have to encounter to bust your bank. My guess would be you will strike a winning bet within the first 5 bets most days, we're talking fav fav fav fav fav fav fav fav fav all winning?

People don't do it because like u say there is always that element of risk and 2, get  greedy, raise stakes, it works for 6 months, then move to £5 , £10.

To do what u want to do here, it takes a large bank(just in case) and extreme discipline, from my experience, few have it. 

you are trying to make such a small % of your bank that it is more than doable here.

whens the last time the first I dunno 10 favs of the day won? 20 favs? even if it happened a bank your size could still handle it, no fun tho is it.

All the best.

having a big bank just means you lose more when martingale send you broke.

So have you done anything with the £20,000 yet?

Thanks for your interest Shalke but no just in the bank gaining that miserly 1%! Still just using the gains I have made on my system mentioned here. So probably just stick with that for now until it's gone then decide if to throw a bit more into Betfair, would follow yours but don't often get chance to log in during the day, work gets in the way! but carry on the good work!

Thanks for your interest Shalke but no just in the bank gaining that miserly 1%! Still just using the gains I have made on my system mentioned here. So probably just stick with that for now until it's gone then decide if to throw a bit more into Betfair, would follow yours but don't often get chance to log in during the day, work gets in the way! but carry on the good work!