General Betting
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I maybe the only one but all the talk from Bladbrokes this week linking executives pay to responsible gambling is beyond the pale for me. I can only assume it is a very public and desperate plea to Helen Grant to not place any restrictions on FOBTs.
I have always found bookmakers and their commitments to responsible gambling as one of the more ironic things in life. Bookmakers spend their entire efforts trying to get as much of a customers wallet as possible. They could not care less what problems a customer has as long as they do not get any negative publicity from it. I remember being sat in meetings at a prominent player in the industry and not once was responsible gambling discussed. It was all about launching new products to get more of said customers wallet. Trying to make sure they wouldn't lose their money elsewhere.
With regard to FOBTS do bookmakers really think putting a warning on the machine saying things like;
Please play responsibly
Only lose what you can afford to, etc
is going to stop people playing? I have been in plenty of shops in the last 12 months and have never and never would play these machines. It is mindblowing what you see the customers of these machines do.
I have seen FOBT's smashed.
I have seen shop staff get abused.
I see guys in pieces who are clearly chasing who have their cards declined.
Having spoken to various members of staff there is absolutely no incentive for them to get involved with stopping these individuals who are clearly out of control.
If bladbrokes and other companies are serious about the issue then any of the following would be a starting point;
Ban taking payments on the machines from any cards
Reduce the limits on the machines to say £2
Stop using loyalty cards and other incentives to get people to use these machines
Ban the machines in their entirety
We all know they have absolutely no interest in doing so. I just hope that Helen Grant is not stupid enough to fall for their blatant lies and misdirection.
All Grant, Cameron etc have to do to see what a problem the machines have become is spend ten minutes in a shop.
This is all before we even talk about online casinos and other games of chance. How they are allowed to advertise/glamourise casinos on tv is beyond a joke.
I have always found bookmakers and their commitments to responsible gambling as one of the more ironic things in life. Bookmakers spend their entire efforts trying to get as much of a customers wallet as possible. They could not care less what problems a customer has as long as they do not get any negative publicity from it. I remember being sat in meetings at a prominent player in the industry and not once was responsible gambling discussed. It was all about launching new products to get more of said customers wallet. Trying to make sure they wouldn't lose their money elsewhere.
With regard to FOBTS do bookmakers really think putting a warning on the machine saying things like;
Please play responsibly
Only lose what you can afford to, etc
is going to stop people playing? I have been in plenty of shops in the last 12 months and have never and never would play these machines. It is mindblowing what you see the customers of these machines do.
I have seen FOBT's smashed.
I have seen shop staff get abused.
I see guys in pieces who are clearly chasing who have their cards declined.
Having spoken to various members of staff there is absolutely no incentive for them to get involved with stopping these individuals who are clearly out of control.
If bladbrokes and other companies are serious about the issue then any of the following would be a starting point;
Ban taking payments on the machines from any cards
Reduce the limits on the machines to say £2
Stop using loyalty cards and other incentives to get people to use these machines
Ban the machines in their entirety
We all know they have absolutely no interest in doing so. I just hope that Helen Grant is not stupid enough to fall for their blatant lies and misdirection.
All Grant, Cameron etc have to do to see what a problem the machines have become is spend ten minutes in a shop.
This is all before we even talk about online casinos and other games of chance. How they are allowed to advertise/glamourise casinos on tv is beyond a joke.
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i think Laddies only said they had "... decided to formalise a number of responsible gambling performance measures into senior executives' remuneration."
they didn't say whether the 'links' would be positive or negative  |
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I have just seen this gem from a letter bookies sent to the Daily Telegraph;
In a letter to the Daily Telegraph, the bosses of Gala Coral, Ladbrokes, Paddy Power, William Hill and Betfred said the "overwhelming majority of our machine customers gamble responsibly". "Problem gambling levels in the UK are low by international standards, amounting to around half a percent of the population, and have not increased since the introduction of gaming machines in betting shops or the inception of online gambling," they wrote. How can they keep straight faces and say problem gambling has not increased since the introduction of FOBTs or the inception of online gambling? Just mindblowing that it is never challenged. |
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That reminds of something I saw in a supermarket a couple of years ago. On the side of this can of Special Brew it gave some sanctimonious spiel about the responsibility of this company to its customers.
On the side of the can it strongly put forward the view that in its opinion going above 2 units of alcohol was very unwise and in this 'responsible companies' opinion would be nothing they'd sanction or advice. Only thing was if you read the other side of the can it informed you that this can of Special Brew contains 3 units of alcohol. What was this brewer suggesting? You drank 2/3 and chucked the rest away?  |
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Tom 26 Feb 14 12:38 Joined: 26 May 01 | Topic/replies: 100 | Blogger: Tom's blog
I have just seen this gem from a letter bookies sent to the Daily Telegraph; In a letter to the Daily Telegraph, the bosses of Gala Coral, Ladbrokes, Paddy Power, William Hill and Betfred said the "overwhelming majority of our machine customers gamble responsibly". "Problem gambling levels in the UK are low by international standards, amounting to around half a percent of the population, and have not increased since the introduction of gaming machines in betting shops or the inception of online gambling," they wrote. How can they keep straight faces and say problem gambling has not increased since the introduction of FOBTs or the inception of online gambling? Just mindblowing that it is never challenged. Yeah I would at least think it's linked to the number gamblers. Britain has more people betting as a % of total population than Belgium, therefore you would naively expect there to a a correspondingly larger % of problem gamblers. In countries where a larger % of people drink alcohol you would also expect to find a larger % of alcoholics, all other things being equal. |
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i'd say half a percent of the population was quite a lot = 300,000
Considering under 18's probably account for 25% of the population and women aren't really gamblers, you are looking at 300,000 of quite a smallish amount of people who can and do bet |
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Problem gambling has not increased since the advent of FOBTs due to the decline in traditional betting. The problem gamblers have just moved onto the FOBTs as they can no longer get on
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I would say that there is a wider audience to fall into problem gambling - obviously with FOBT's, but also since the advent of television advertising.
In particular, in emphasising slots and bingo, they attract differing gender/age groups I find it totally hypocritical of these mainstream operators, trying to stand for responsible principles, whilst marketing their products on a totally different agenda. |
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I was in my local laddies for the SIS the other day. Machines were packed (26th of the month). One local who lives on the street came in with his friend in a wheel chair. They dumped in around £30 in coins. As my race ended, looked over and had been there for 5 minutes total, they were down £4, the person in the wheel chair with her face in her hands.
Dinner gone. |
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I wonder how much hidden problem gambling is going on in people's home. Online Bingo site and casinos must be buzzing with hundereds of thousands of people losing millions between them every day.
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I don't think anyone has any idea of the scale of the problem. You only have to spend some time in shops to see the number of people out of control on the FOBTs. These individuals may only be losing £30/£40 a time but it is money they cannot afford to lose. Often it will be much more.
The issue online is that it is just numbers on a screen. There is little consequence in a virtual world until the **** really hits the fan. Lets not forget Lads made £68m from its online casino in 2013. The problems could be on any online product though. I really wonder about the people who do the surveys and come up with the results. I really question how realistic the data they have is. How many people admit to being a loser? Or out of control? Being dependent? Betting more they can afford to lose? If you asked the forum how many people have chased losses at various stages of their time betting the numbers would be staggering. Does it make them problem gamblers? Not necessarily but it leaves them open to the possibility of doing so again in the future. |
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Tom, I agree with the 'just numbers on a screen'. I used to day trade with $50,000 in the account. When I looked at the numbers at the end of the day for three or four positions, to see me move over $100,000 was boggling.
Pixels soften the blow but reality sets in within a day or so. |
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I had to laugh. I was in a shop earlier and was hearing a story about the Paddys down the road. A guy in a fit of rage turned over and smashed all four FOBTs. They were told not to report to the police as they don't want the bad publicity. If that is company policy no wonder people don't think there is any issue.
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The up and coming generation between the ages of 16-25 are bad for it. Many live off student loans or have little money so straight onto the machines for a quick fix and some money to go out at weekend if their lucky. Need banning simple as!
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Responsible Gambling !!
Let's not forget the Post Office worker who it is believed lost an average 20k per day over a 14 month period betting online with Paddy Power and was wined and dined by PP towards the end of that period : http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/post-office-gambling-addict-who-stole-175m-is-jailed-28949700.html |
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Gaming machines (the new term for fobts apparently) are indeed highly addictive for vulnerable members of society, or anyone really, and ruin many a nice lunchtime for the casual punter trying to select his afternoon trixie in peace, but we all know that these machines are keeping bookies open, between the devil & the deep blue sea is one way of looking at it, plus i was amazed recently seeing that online roulette has no maximum punt limit per spin..certainly not £100 limit...makes the bookies look quite responsible..
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