General Betting
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Is in-running the big draw it's made out to be on forum?
Is in-running the big draw it's made out to be on forum?
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i think it is inplay which makes betfair tick(for pleasure) in comparison with bookies for casual punters. problem is that it is also extremely unfair to casual punters and it might be the reason why betfair struggles to retain and increase recreational punters money. i say this because probalities for outcome vary significantly while the odds dont change accordingly in play. at this moments some sophisticated punters offer and take value prices selectively while avoiding offers when they are against them. i think most casual punters offer will only be taken whne the odds are against them. at least pre off prices settle to true probalities and casual punters can get fair run for their money.
some posters here have mentioned football as a fair market but i totaly disagree. just to give an example i have seen bots which operate on correct score and offer odds according to where the ball and cancelling odds accordingly. in other markets such as overs/unders and match odds for example true price change significantly and very quickly(in seconds and minutes) but odds dont move as quickly and they get cherry picked. i dont think how much revenue of betfair comes from pre off or inplay but i am quite confident most casual punters lose their money quickly in play than they would do pre off and most of the big winners make most of their money inplay. i cant see a system which can correct this inbuilt unfairness withoiut affecting the experiance of the site but betfair should and could arrange their pricing to reflect this unfairness. |
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Good post henok.
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Yes Henok, that kind of stuff gives people an advantage, but punters are still far better off betting correct scores in play with betfair than with traditional bookies. Of course a more level playing field would be better for the exchange.
Cutting out a vast portion of the time available to place bets would be too high a price to pay though. |
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it's a hard nut to crack investor
a fair exchange that wasn't bothersome and rid of cheats would be a wonderful place |
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what exactly is unfair about the markets now ?
you can see the price , the amount offered , place your bet if you like the odds or don't . |
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i agree with harold_lloyd.
apart from such factors as tracksiders, and, to a limited extent those who have faster pictures ( if S.I.S is still faster ... i dunno), I really can't see what's unfair about IR horse racing. folk express an opinion as to whether a runner is likely to win by offering to Back or Lay it. I hold a different opinion and offer to match the Bet. Very often, in fact most of the time, someone quicker than me matches the Bet first, so my offer is up there to be matched. I never cancel the Bet, I never change it. I add liquidity. Of course my prices aren't, in my opinion, 'fair' ... if they were I'd just be aiming to break even and paying a helluva lot of commission, which, despite my naturally generous instincts, isn't actually the aim! |
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If Betfair could dis-invent in running they would, but they can't and if they didn't offer it someone else would.
None of the 60%ers are straight betters pre off that's for sure. It's possible a 60%er is a pre off risk averse market maker but still quite unlikely. Most of the 60%ers and PC payers in general will be in running tennis or cricket traders. In these sports and in play in general there can be more advantages for the winners on these markets including: time advantage the way out prices being offered in running as people have a few seconds to decide the price the countless entry and exit points If your good and risk averse then losing on a five day test match shouldn't happen too often. |
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harold_lloyd 10 Nov 13 10:01
what exactly is unfair about the markets now ? --- Psst, you're dealing with Feck, Cardinal of the church of feck betting. If you don't bet his way, it's apostasy to his true faith and you are a bad person. He decides. He's THAT important, and a socialist, so a better person than you'll ever be, don't you know? Learn that. It helps. (Note : I HATE cheats I really do, but stopping actual cheating is not the limit to Feck's "true faith", which is what he is about) Re this (not feck :) "If Betfair could dis-invent in running they would" Nonsense? BF exchange make their money on volume and throughput. It's irrelevant to them how or what as a business model. If they could have 10000 people betting all day on the cubic volume of London Sewer Flow, it would make sense to open the market and "let it flow". I/R is a good thing as it gives freedom to people who want to bet on it, and as long as managed fairly according to the rules, it IS a good thing. |
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In Running is where the mugs do their money at a far quicker rate and the shrewdies make their's.
In an ideal world for Betfair there would be no winners, just people who broke even and had their banks whittled away to zero by commission. Looking at today's Man Utd vs Arsenal match. The mugs will be laying Man Utd at 2.38 and backing at 2.36. They'll lose just on the spread and commission. They'll lose at a nice slow rate if they did this sort of bet all the time. Also the winners will be winning at a nice slow rate so both are just what Betfair want. |
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I see my earlier post was deleted. I know I'm wasting my time anyway. Grab what you can while you can because as sure as hell you're destroying exchange betting. Ditto to those taking advantage of your marks for nomarks franchise sheme.
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you can see the price , the amount offered , place your bet if you like the odds or don't .
One of the funniest posts ever on betfair. Harold clearly knows his stuff. |
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99.99% of people that use betfair are happy with the way it works regarding placing bets .
your idea of an auction is not what 99.99% of people would want . you seem to be moaning that you can't get on at the price you want . we all want better odds than what we are offered , but as most say that the true chance of something happening is more accurate with betfair odds , stop moaning if the price is not what you would like it to be , just don't bet , is the point I was making |
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"Grab what you can while you can because as sure as hell you're destroying exchange betting."
Being an old Etonian, former Young Conservative and an ex Investment Banker this is definitely not the case for me. I use my expert knowledge to back and lay on the same markets for just a couple of ticks and i know that I am providing valuable much-needed liquidity for betfair. I just feel that it's a massive travesty that I am charged this premium charge of 20% for my efforts. It's an injustice I tell you. |
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I'm sure that would be greeted with massive applause at the annual "guardian reader most irrelevant internet sockpuppet post" award, feck.
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just checking , ann witt , I think you missed the point my hilarious post ( I think you need to get out more if you found it funny ) was making .
it was in comparison ann witt ( who is not feck , sure ) suggestion of auctions |
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Harold my reply was to U.A, sorry, not you :) Ann IS feck, he doesn't even deny it now, it was obvious anyway.
Feck's auction idea is ridiculous. This entire thread I think was started BECAUSE I pointed out it was a ****ing non starter for in play on Ann/Fecks other thread about actions, so he started this new one to ask if people (who aren't cheating parasites in his angry bitter mind) bet on such markets ;) |
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sorry just checking
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No problem :)
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ooh are you accusing me being feck. I think you're reading too much into this forum. I'm nothing to do with him. I'm just making a few light-hearted comments.
I'm afraid this is just a forum populated by people like myself who are either bored or have too much time on their hands. Many people love a good argument and generally bitching and being a bit aggressive it makes them feel like the big man and probably helps work off some of their suppressed anger. Look feck knows that everyone knows that Ann is feck. He just doesn't want to admit it directly as he is probably concerned that he might lose his forum privileges. Secret identities, sock puppets, forum orientated award ceremonies it's all very exciting but a bit much. It's just a forum. |
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It's apology season U.A., and I sincerely offer you mine. Sorry :)
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That's ok no problems. I've just cancelled my call to the forum mafia so it's all good!!
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!!! Damn it I'dve already ordered Horse Head Sauce and scraped the worst of my dandruff off the pillow! :)
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JC, I am not U.A. but I am a Fecker. HTH.
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in case anyone's new to this, what ann feck-witt thinks is unfair is any system that isn't set up to give his superior knowledge of horses and style of betting maximum advantage. which is why, hilariously, he's argued that the way forward for betfair would be to hide prices.
in feck's world, it's "unfair" for someone to be able to see his price and lay a tick higher. that better price and smaller overround represents intolerable ferengi parasitism, you see. if betfair implemented pretty much anything that feck suggests, the only positive would be that the current management would all be sacked within a month as the exchange went into cardiac arrest. |
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If you want the pseudonym to work Feck,you need to drop the catchphrases- "ping pong","flies around ****", "shell and pea", etc.etc.
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That one was good.
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My response to viva's post has been deleted. I don't know why as most of it was cut and paste from a longish post I made on the 'bots all over the place' thread (page 4). Feck has never advocated hiding prices. As for the rest of your post viva why don't you address that post on the 'bots all over the place' thread if you think you've really got anything anti-feckfair to say.
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Why delete a post from a lady as you? Very strange!
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I'm not female chatlame (neither is Feck who is not me). I've just got a pal who can't spell "and what" in Scottish.
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You have just got a pal? I wished I would have only one friend. I envy you.
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because I'm not interested in wasting my time with arguing with feck about lunatic ideas that'll never be implemented. taking a few seconds out to point out to others what ann utter hypocritical tool he is is the limit of my interest.
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artie 11 Nov 13 15:31 Joined: 12 Sep 01 | Topic/replies: 3,114 | Blogger: artie's blog
If you want the pseudonym to work Feck,you need to drop the catchphrases- "ping pong","flies around ****", "shell and pea", etc.etc. ________________ you forgot stripey blazers |
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You have just got a pal? I wished I would have only one friend. I envy you.
You mean you're not my pal? I thought I had reached two.  because I'm not interested in wasting my time with arguing with feck about lunatic ideas that'll never be implemented. taking a few seconds out to point out to others what ann utter hypocritical tool he is is the limit of my interest. The forum's full of hypocritical tools who are devoid of logical argument. There's 39 pages of 'give the muggers a free lunch and the mugged will return in their droves' posts on the 'Premium charge must be scrapped' thread. How many of those posts did you waste your time posting? I put forward my argument on the 'bots all over the place' thread. Don't dress up the fact that you're unable to come up with any argument against it (aside from it doesn't suit your parasitic activities) as laziness when you spend so much of your time posting vacuous whinging rubbish. |
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don't worry feck. nurse'll be along with a cup of cocoa in a bit.
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Glad to hear it viva. Try not to dribble on her.
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^poor effort
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Still no reply on the 'bots all over the place' thread viva? Have you no shame?
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gave up on that thread when BJT started tw@tting on in it, not read what you wrote, not going to. what can you possibly have said that you haven's said a thousand times before?
you're a bore whose ideas rightly have zero chance of being listened to let alone implemented. |
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I would take 1.01 you've read that post viva but your tiny mind has nothing to counter it with.
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