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the whizz kids
27 Jun 13 19:24
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Date Joined: 11 Sep 05
| Topic/replies: 2,448 | Blogger: the whizz kids's blog
Is that right? Whatever next?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a96bc61e-def2-11e2-881f-00144feab7de.html#axzz2XQyiscNw

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Replies: 81
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 27 Jun 13 19:45
what does it say? link says i need to sign up for articles
By:
pmbets
When: 27 Jun 13 19:51
Looks like they will want more money from their customers.Extending the market specific commisions for another 18 months.


Unveiling its full-year results, Betfair said the trial had been extended to a further 18 countries.
Breon Corcoran, chief executive, said exchange customers had an “emotional sensitivity” to changes in the commission rate, but that “some are more sensitive than others”.
He said: “We are trying to build this business in a sustainable way . . . The initial experiment went well, but we are very wary of extrapolating too rapidly.”
Betfair made an underlying profit of £38m, down from £52m a year earlier.
By:
pmbets
When: 27 Jun 13 19:53
18 countries that should read.
By:
the whizz kids
When: 27 Jun 13 19:54
TAKEN FROM TODAYS FT

Betfair has extended trials on varying the commission it charges betting exchange customers, as it looks to make up revenues lost from pulling out of unregulated markets.
The betting group, which takes a 5 per cent commission on the exchange, began the trial in five international markets, varying the rate to between 4 per cent and 7.5 per cent.

Unveiling its full-year results, Betfair said the trial had been extended to a further 18 countries.

Breon Corcoran, chief executive, said exchange customers had an “emotional sensitivity” to changes in the commission rate, but that “some are more sensitive than others”.

He said: “We are trying to build this business in a sustainable way . . . The initial experiment went well, but we are very wary of extrapolating too rapidly.”

Betfair made an underlying profit of £38m, down from £52m a year earlier.

The impact of its strategic shift announced last year, which involved withdrawing from markets where the regulatory environment was uncertain, had been a “significant drag” on revenues, it said.

It now has 75 per cent of revenues from regulated markets, and Mr Corcoran said he expected that figure to increase as Betfair reviewed markets “case by case”.

It is looking to attract new customers with a standalone website offering traditional fixed-odds betting, aping other high street bookmakers.

Ivor Jones, Numis analyst, said varying the commission rate “has the potential to materially enhance exchange revenue, but also to reduce it. We expect management to take some time before committing to a new pricing structure.”

The group posted a pre-tax loss of £49m, compared with a profit of £54m a year earlier. Sales were broadly stable at £387m. The loss per share was 65.1p (profit of 33.1p).

The loss was largely caused by an £82m impairment of asset values, including charges relating to the weaker-than-expected outlook for acquired businesses, as well as a writedown of the value of its technology.

The company also took a £19m restructuring charge and spent almost £3m on advisory fees related to the rejected a takeover approach from private equity group CVC.

Betfair promised shareholders it would devote proceeds from its cash balance of £168m to acquisitions.

“We have some capability gaps, we have a lot to learn about sports betting and gaming, and while we have good scale in the UK we are relatively smaller in most of the other markets,” said Mr Corcoran.

A final dividend of 9p per share has been proposed, making a total of 13p for the year, up from 10.2p a year earlier.

The shares rose 1.57 per cent to close at 843p on Thursday.

Separately, second-quarter trading at Playtech was slightly ahead of the 10 per cent increase reported in April, the gambling software provider said.
By:
CrowsEye
When: 27 Jun 13 20:06
Bahaha there is no way I'd be playing at 7.5%.

The high street wins?
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 27 Jun 13 20:07
if it gets to 7.5% will the last person to leave please turn off the lights
By:
pmbets
When: 27 Jun 13 20:14
Funny 7.5% plus up to 60% PC charge and spreads wider than the mersey tunnel.
By:
donny osmond
When: 27 Jun 13 20:14
Betfair promised shareholders it would devote proceeds from its cash balance of £168m to acquisitions.





you'll not get much for that,




7.5 % ? why not round it up to 10 % like the bookies used to do ?
By:
the whizz kids
When: 27 Jun 13 20:28
My favourite bit is what Corcoran said - Breon Corcoran, chief executive, said exchange customers had an “emotional sensitivity” to changes in the commission rate, but that “some are more sensitive than others”.

IS HE FOR REAL.
By:
ballabriggs
When: 27 Jun 13 20:51
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 27 Jun 13 20:55
and big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite them,
and little fleas have littler fleas,and littler ad finitum
By:
Mr.Anderson
When: 27 Jun 13 20:57
In Bulgaria the default Market Base Rate is 7.5%
In Indonesia, Malaysia, Poland, and Romania the default Market Base Rate is 6.5%
In Argentina, Belarus, Columbia, Estonia, Hungary, Kazakhstan , Luxembourg, Mexico, and Singapore the default Market Base Rate is 6%
In Norway and Finland the default Market Base Rate is 5.5%

http://en.learning.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2684
By:
ballabriggs
When: 27 Jun 13 20:57
With Corcoran's contract, it is logical for him to be desperate to push base rates of commission up.  There is a time lag between commission rates going up, and people stopping using the Betfair markets.  The time lag is probably long enough for him to do exactly the same as previous management have done, and window dress figures.  Underlying goodwill has been trashed because it had no allocated monetary value in the accounts.  If it had had value, different decisions would have been made.  Can't blame him at all for pushing for an increase in base rate commission.  What he should be doing is a targetted commission rate unique to each customer, perhaps 80% according to their predicted future betting percentage hit rate, and 20% according to their turnover. 

Shoving up the base rate is akin to selling the family silver, thousands of pounds worth for a few tenners.  Worth it in the short run, but not really a great idea.
By:
donny osmond
When: 27 Jun 13 21:03
betting on french racing, in france the deductions are about 30 %
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 27 Jun 13 21:06
thats all tote isnt it? or pari mutuel or whatever its called
By:
frog2
When: 27 Jun 13 21:09
where is it 4%?
By:
Eldrick
When: 27 Jun 13 21:31
Bit coy about revealing where they are offering less than 5% base rates aren't they?

18 countries in the scheme, 16 mentioned above by Mr Anderson (from bf help section) - so two countries are left off, which presumably get the 4% rate

Who would they give that to, and why?

Have to think it's an Asian jurisdiction where they are allowed to operate?
By:
TheVis
When: 27 Jun 13 22:03
BF really are trying to get every last drop out of the system as quick as they can.  As expressed above this can only lead to further tumbleweed and bigger spreads as more customers decide not to bother.

The only conclusion is that the increase from 5 countries to 18 means the UK will follow suit probably this time next year on a 6-7.5% rate.  That has to be their goal.
By:
ballabriggs
When: 27 Jun 13 22:17
The CEO needs to change commission to operate in a U-shape, high for the biggest winners, and high for the biggest numskulls who will take any price.  But in the middle, for many reasons (some long term ones), is where it needs to be lowest.  Squeezing every last penny out of a marginal winner/loser, who is aspiring to reach the top table, isn't wise.  A 6-7.5% rate wouldn't hurt the biggest winners, or the biggest dimwits, but the ones in the middle, with high commission payments, but negligible overall wins or losses, would be severely harmed by this rise. 

Betfair can think "**** 'em", and view them as expendable.  But in the exchange ecosystem, you need some people trying to give the top dogs a run for their money, or else the prices will become a lot less efficient.
By:
ballabriggs
When: 27 Jun 13 22:25
TheVis, Betfair don't have one goal.  The shareholders want an increase in equity value, perhaps an increase in dividends, and sustainability.  The CEO's contract looks like it favours short termism.  It does seem logical for the CEO with that contract to increase commission sharply, and never look at ever moving any price down, but it also seems logical for non-burger flipper shareholders to be far more wary of the time delayed dampening effect upon revenues which the higher commission rate will unarguably lead to.
By:
cdog
When: 27 Jun 13 22:30
What has Bulgaria done wrong to deserve to be the one suffering 7.5%?
By:
ballabriggs
When: 27 Jun 13 22:53
Bulgaria deserves to be punished, after the incident on Wimbledon common with Madame Cholet and Miss Adelaide.
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 27 Jun 13 23:53
operation yewtree?
By:
sideshowbob
When: 28 Jun 13 00:19
im beginning to lose interest now.

give it 2 or 3 years and the exchange probably wont even exist. they seem hell bent on killing it.
By:
the whizz kids
When: 28 Jun 13 03:51
Ex Bookie now runs BF and it looks like it only has a couple of years left until it becomes a bookie.
Bookie now owns the other exchange that they bought for peanuts and have done sod all when it comes to taking a massive slice of BF trade.

conspiracy theory maybe??

Is this the FOBTS Mobsters trying to kill the exchange?
SurprisedSurprisedSurprisedSurprised
By:
hazel
When: 28 Jun 13 03:57
If I have to pay 60%, it's only fair that the rest of you dimwits have to pay at least 7.5%.  Laugh
By:
TheInvestor2
When: 28 Jun 13 04:22
Another weird one is that in Holland the max comm discount is 50% rather than 60%, wonder why that is.
http://en.learning.betfair.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2486
By:
the whizz kids
When: 28 Jun 13 04:42
Hazel, You will be paying the same as us in two years when we have no exchange. A BIG FAT 0%
By:
SHAPESHIFTER
When: 28 Jun 13 10:17
I thought with the fixed odds, betfair would have created some sort of 'rebate' against commission or points.  Thus saying x % of your commissioned paid gets matched against any fixed odds bets you make. 

It keeps the money in the pool, takes away betting from their competition, boosts figures and puts more in the pot for internal hedging.
By:
YOMOMMA
When: 28 Jun 13 11:26
They won't have any customers left.
By:
Lex
When: 28 Jun 13 13:23
"Analysts say the challenge for Ladbrokes is turning Betd@q into anything resembling a rival to Betfair, which is 20 times its size" - The Telegraph, jan 2013

Hurry up boys its now or never you'll not get another chance. Devil
By:
bilbobaggins
When: 28 Jun 13 14:48
7.5% is ok if they got rid of the PC.
By:
sweetchildofmine
When: 28 Jun 13 15:05
for the premium charge payers it would be a great alternative but for most of the rest of us it would be the death knell
By:
funkymonkey
When: 28 Jun 13 15:35
5% was too high. 7.5% is just plain insulting.

From 2004-2007 95% of my betting was on here. From 2007-2012 I reduced it gradually down to less than 20%.

Today it is 5%.  There must be tons of people like me jumping ship. They are cutting their own throats slowly with a rusty knife. It is business suicide.
By:
askari1
When: 28 Jun 13 16:06
I can't see them increasing comm. for straight backers in the UK when there's so much competition from licensed bookmakers.

They might even use pricing flexibility as a way of cutting the base rate for one-way bettors i.e. to 2.5% and increasing it to 7.5% for traders.
By:
the whizz kids
When: 28 Jun 13 20:12
Other Exchange 3% flat.
By:
going skint
When: 28 Jun 13 22:00
Sales were broadly stable at £387m.
what do betfair sell,i thought they just collect commission from other sellers and buyers
By:
lanza
When: 28 Jun 13 22:50
Laugh hazel.

First they came....
By:
lanza
When: 28 Jun 13 22:59
First they came for the courtsiders
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a courtsider

Then they came for the fast pic boys
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a fast pic player.

Then they came for the most loyal customers,
and I didn't speak out because I hadnt been from day 1.

Then they came for the dimwits,
and there was no one left to speak out for me Laugh
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