Betfair trading and betting analytics tool

This is excellent. Is it your website?

Yes, I will add additional functionality soon

Currently it allows users to save more than 3 months of their betting/trading history, add tags to markets (to filter them, for example add WTA, clay to a tennis game and later check your progess on WTA+Clay, or just WTA etc), also you can filter results by teams/players/tracks etc and make notes.

Well done, sir. Thought I'd give it a try on Sunday and it beats anything else I've used hands down. Where as before I was wasting time updating spreads your website does it all for me.

Played about with it over the last couple of days with my football strategy and its flagging up glaring anomalies which I wouldn't have really noticed.

Highly recommended.

The tool is even better now, with full language support, premium charge record keeping and other cool features.

so, um, what's the score on confidentiality?

if people upload their betting results to your site, how do they know you won't use it to reverse engineer their betting strategies?

there may be a good answer to that, but it seems worth clarifying.

Good question!

You do not upload your betting (bet history) file, you upload your Profit and Loss file, like people post simple screenshots from their Profit&Loss section for readers on blogs, twitter etc etc. There is no way one can simply figure out the strategy from a P/L file.

F.e. Peter Webb puts up those P/L screenshots all the time, I guess he should be done and dusted by now if someone could read his "strategies" or whatever he's doing there ;)


So instead of posting meaningless P/L spreadsheets, you can share the same data in more user friendly format with tons of additional features. Or just keep it for yourself.

I don't know Peter Webb. but I do know I'd be very interested to see any regular winner's detailed p/l history, and would never post mine. you most emphatically can reverse engineer many winning strategies from that information.

You can find such p/l history screenshots all over the internet. Best of luck reverse engineering strategies! :)

Some time ago there was a Geeks Toy "record your P/L statement" done for charity. Some users posted videos with 100+k profits in their P/L statements.

About privacy: you are never asked of your Betfair username. Register with any email address you want. We also do not read currency from the file automatically, you can choose one in My profile settings if you want.

The sad thing about Viva's question is the basic assumption ( sadly too often too true) that nobody does anything for others out of the goodness of their hearts, most particularly in the cutthroat world of gambling.
There's always the underlying question, what's in it for you if you're doing all this good work on betting tools and then ( freely?) sharing it with others.

Btw I'm confident that I could send Viva my betting results for a month of Sundays, and he would never be able to reverse engineer what I'm doing.
Not just him, but anybody.

I guess I should just make it subscription based :)

I'm a full time trader myself. I dropped the "cool" idea of keeping 10 Excel spreadsheets with tons of typos, errors etc and created an online tool. As I have it for myself, I don't mind sharing it with others. As a full timer you feel like you should give back to the community (I think other full timer's will agree). At least that's how I keep myself calm about paying Premium Charge :D

Anyway, Mybetlog was(is) growing very fast with data amount/user support/new feature requests and my own ideas of developing something that bookies try to keep us off- detailed records of our betting history, notes and ability to turn numbers into trends/graphs and later in new trading strategy ideas.

I will not mention any, but I've really seen b**** products sold for 30GBP+, legendary super-mega-turbo strategy PDF's. People look for some magic PDF document for 40GBP that will make them a fortune, but sometimes all it takes is to look back at your own mistakes, analyze them and work them out next time you place a bet.

Yes I suppose the irony is that if you ask people to pay for something they get the feeling that your motives are more transparent and acceptable. Rubbish of course.
Btw I commend you for trying to give something back as you put it.
Incidentally I feel that any successful full time or part timer on here must have already done very deep analysis to come up with a successful strategy.
Therefore your tool will probably only appeal to newbies or amateurs hoping for some easy ride to the top.
I hope I'm wrong on this and that you really are successful in developing a community of like minded successful punters.
I honestly don't know where you find the hours in the day to do all this sharing.
I'm flat out just keeping up with the daily demands of my own system.

I'm only on here at the moment because of all the tennis action currently going on.
Gambling for a living has almost become a 24/7 occupation with all the sport happening in all different time zones, and mostly all bettable on.

Well, markets change all the time. That's why it's important to see the big picture, more than 3 months of P/L that Betfair allows us to see. Anyway, i think most successful traders are ones that keep records.

At the moment I can filter my trading results from 3 years ago, filter tennis results by WTA/ATP matchups, courts (hard, clay, grass etc) or any other specific tag i attach to the market (strategies or whatever). I can filter results for my strategies by courts etc etc. I also make some notes about teams/players. I can see my P/L graph for my favorite football team (the trend is clearly going down, lol) or any other team. There are some teams/players I just should not be trading, so I can backup this feeling now with real data.

And all it took was about 20 minutes each week to upload a file, make notes for all sports. Even for the most laziest ones, to keep basic records, it takes about 5 minutes every 3 months to upload one/two/three files :)

But yes, what started as a hobby, now takes lots of investments of time and money. But it will go subscription based only when I feel it's 200% worth the money ;)

Well I suppose the only time saving thing in my favour, is that my system does not depend on anything but numbers .
The players/teams involved could be anybody at any time and so I am not concerned in any manner in tracking individual performances or playing conditions et al.
Now I suppose you could argue that how do I know that I couldn't improve my system by adding these features.
Well there is no simple answer to that, except to say that I developed my system specifically to be totally objective and not have any subjective opinion taking in it at all.
I find that taking what I call the emotion out of all my betting, I avoid bad gambling habits like blaming bad luck and panicking to recover losses.
Each to his own I suppose.
Once again best of luck to your worthwhile endeavours.

the screenshots you can find on the internet will be the ones where the people posting them have thought about it and decided they contain no information valuable to competitors. that's a screened subset; it does not demonstrate that p/l statements don't contain valuable information. that's why most of the posts in the "how much has everywon one lost..." thread actually contain very partial information.

what I'm asking is straightforward and clearly important. who gets to see the data uploaded? specifically: do you have access to it? does anyone other than the uploader have access to it?

Uploader gets to see the data by himself, if he signs in and uploads data. Other users gets to see data if user uses Quick Report and shares it in his blog/twitter etc.

I can access the database, and I can see how much uploads user has. But I should be very desperate to try and figure out any strategies for at the moment more than 100 000 markets saved. And it's just impossible. There is no way people can tell how much bets user had, when he had those bets and most importantly WHY did he place those bets.

You could be very rich if you could spot strategies by plain P/L numbers ;)

Btw, one way how to spot strategies is by trading software. That's where it's possible to track every move you make.

I can access the database

thank you. pass.

How do yoy create dynamic web page without access to the database?

Sorry, but you sound a bit like one of those crazy tinfoil hat people.

it's got nothing to do with how you create pages. the issue is being clear with people about what happens to their data and what could happen to it.

so long as you are, then fair enough. people get involved at their own risk with the full facts in front of them. but make it clear. because this *is* potentially sensitive information. just knowing which markets people bet on and what their final position is on each one in some cases would be hugely valuable.

your word that you wouldn't know how to make use of it is just your word, and frankly meaningless. we don't know you. also what happens if someone offers you money for the data? what protection do people have against you selling it? is this even addressed anywhere?

if all that sounds like tinfoil hat stuff to you, well - that doesn't increase my confidence that you understand betting/investment frankly.

Is there anything up with the site, sens?

I keep getting "There was a problem parsing your provided upload file. Please upload a new file or try again later."

Other than that I have no problem storing data there.

Should be Ok CJ70, just tested.
If the problem was with parsing, something is up with the file, but you can just email to info [at] mybetlog.com and we can sort it out :)


2 viva el presidente

yes, basically you are very correct about safety of data. that's a very important subject in any website nowadays. there are still websites that store passwords in plain text, for example. :)

When it comes down to this Profit and Loss data, as I said somewhere else, basically any possible query for users data is run and results can be seen in users profile page. Average numbers, total numbers, max numbers, min numbers etc. If at any point you feel your secret trading strategy is at risk, when you look at these graphs/numbers, you are free to delete any uploads you have.

Just the worse case scenario:

It is, off course, possible to run queries against the whole database, to display: users with biggest total profits. Then it comes down to currency, there are 9 of them and it is optional to set one. SEK f.e is 10:1 with GBP, so that result becomes totally meaningless.

Also users can edit their P/L data at any point, some for even more secure reasons can multiply/divide spreadsheets P/L column with any number. So that all numbers in their profile is totally for them to understand. And so on.

There might be VERY, i mean VERY, specific strategies, that could be determined by P/L. But again, for horse racing- you can't even see the horse the bet was made on. Or maybe it was a dutch bet. Or maybe a simple lay bet. Or maybe scalping all horses or just favourite. Even if you put race results next to the profit or loss column, you can never tell what and when was done.


But I guess it all comes down to the gambling industry and those winning feeling always in danger. Forex uses same automated tools, which gather your performance results and lets you analyze them (fxstats f.e), poker also tracks every bet you make, even more, poker rooms/tools collect data about you and sell those databases to other people and so on.

So I can just provide a platform and any user can use it as long as he/she feels comfortable with the data they provide.

Anyway, it's a great and very interesting topic, thanks for starting that :)

A good and open discussion between sens and viva.
Good questions and good replies.
Nice to read these sorts of things being debated intelligently.

Looked at the software it looks ok.But sorry I will never upload my p/l account.The reverse engineering is real
and although it will be hard to understand my successful winning strategy as most is info from trainers
and special info I get from drf ,Maybe I am missing something and perhaps there is a chance.
So thanx but no thanx.

Also I think you will find you are breaking betfair rules by asking for access to peoples logs.
I may be wrong but good luck anyways.

The reverse engineering could be real, yes, but with Bet history, not P/L. It's too unreal to reverse something from that.

Anyway, good luck with your trading ;)

This actually got me thinking, maybe I should make it a subscription or one time fee based service, and allow users to self-host the platform, or even use it as a desktop application. This way, end user is the only one who has access to the data.

For others,there is always an option to do that online via mybetlog.com

I'm siding with Sens on this reverse engineering issue.
I find it difficult to conceive that basic p/l figures could reveal anything critically important.
Maybe somebody could post an example of where such info. could be analysed to reveal critically important elements of a betting strategy.
And no I'm not fishing for ideas or anything like that.
Paranoia rules it seems to me.

Surely if you have basic P&L information of markets where somebody is doing well it could easily lead to at least have a look at the market and start to work out how to profit from it, especially if it is one of the side markets?

I still don't think that narrowing down where somebody is clearly being successful should enable you to be able to work how that success is being achieved.
Reverse engineering seems to me to be used by most as an abstract term, with most never ever having  successfully reversed engineered anything meaningful in their lives.
And that includes me, a person who cheats at everything.

It could be argued that most people couldn't reverse engineer from this, and of the ones who could, most wouldn't need to anyway.

This actually got me thinking, maybe I should make it a subscription or one time fee based service, and allow users to self-host the platform, or even use it as a desktop application. This way, end user is the only one who has access to the data.

-------

that is a much better idea, imo.

whether and to what degree a strategy can be reverse engineered from p/l statements of course depends on what it is. a couple of my decent one's you definitely could.

Imo, if the strategy can be reversed easily by just looking on P/L numbers, it must consist of one or multiple very basic rules.

But, anyway, desktop/self hosted version could be great option for some people.

Have a go at reverse engineering this one boys. QPR v Sheff Wed Match Odds 03 Aug 15:00 pre off trading.
Green book 30.88/21.43/21.43 on only £28k of turnover (woohoo).

team/odds/stake/profit.

Back
QPR    2    £14,151.91    £14,144.60
   
Lay   
QPR    2    £14,173.34    £14,113.71

mmm... but would you be so sanguine about making a full three months market by market p/l public investor?

funnily enough, you were the first person that came to mind when I was thinking about forumites whose market breakdowns I'd like to see.

Doesn't show the arbing.

ok viva, here's a full 3 months from my database:

Event    Market    Settled Date    Net Profit/Loss
Everton v Middlesbrough Total Goals    26-Dec-2006    1.18
Bolton v Newcastle     Total Goals    26-Dec-2006    0.61
West Ham v Portsmouth     Total Goals    26-Dec-2006    4.82
Sheff Utd v Man City     Total Goals    26-Dec-2006    1.1
Blackburn v Liverpool     Total Goals    26-Dec-2006    0.07
Chelsea v Fulham     Total Goals    30-Dec-2006    0.05
Arsenal v Charlton     Total Goals    02-Jan-2007    4.95
Aston Villa v Chelsea     Total Goals    02-Jan-2007    1.36
Academica v Benfica     Total Goals    15-Jan-2007    7.92
Fulham v Man Utd     Total Goals    24-Feb-2007    2.29
Modena v Juventus     Total Goals    26-Feb-2007    7.92
Duisburg v H Rostock     Total Goals    26-Feb-2007    9.37
Luton v Norwich     Total Goals    27-Feb-2007    0.59
West Brom v Middlesbr     Total Goals    27-Feb-2007    1.11
Sedan v Nantes     Total Goals    27-Feb-2007    2.67
Offenbach v Frankfurt     Total Goals    27-Feb-2007    6.61
Lazio v Catania     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    4.03
Chievo v Roma     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    14.22
Empoli v Messina     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    2.53
Palermo v AC Milan     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    0
Blackburn v Arsenal     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    1.48
Ascoli v Parma     Total Goals    28-Feb-2007    3.31
Schalke v Hamburg     Total Goals    02-Mar-2007    2.08
Leverkusen v Stuttgart     Total Goals    03-Mar-2007    0.88
Coventry v Hull     Total Goals    03-Mar-2007    1.98
Frankfurt v Hannover     Total Goals    03-Mar-2007    0.99
Sevilla v Barcelona     Total Goals    03-Mar-2007    6.01
Besiktas v Galatasaray     Total Goals    03-Mar-2007    0.35
Lazio v Sampdoria     Total Goals    04-Mar-2007    2.67
Catania v Siena     Total Goals    04-Mar-2007    19.55
Cagliari v Atalanta     Total Goals    04-Mar-2007    0.66
Karlsruhe v FC Koln     Total Goals    05-Mar-2007    0.3
Mantova v Triestina     Total Goals    05-Mar-2007    2.7
Valencia v Inter     Total Goals    06-Mar-2007    0.84
Liverpool v Barcelona     Total Goals    06-Mar-2007    0
Rangers v Osasuna     Total Goals    08-Mar-2007    0.69
PAOK v Egaleo     Total Goals    10-Mar-2007    0.99
Leeds v Luton     Total Goals    10-Mar-2007    0.61
Brescia v Juventus     Total Goals    10-Mar-2007    0.45
Barcelona v Real Madrid     Total Goals    10-Mar-2007    0.72
Atalanta v Parma     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    0.36
Celtic v Rangers     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    1.84
Chievo v Messina     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    1.47
Osasuna v Valencia     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    0.11
Galatasaray v Trabzonspor     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    1.48
Hamburg v Leverkusen     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    0.07
Palermo v Fiorentina     Total Goals    11-Mar-2007    1.35
Burton v Forest Green     Total Goals    12-Mar-2007    1.98
Benfica v Leiria     Total Goals    12-Mar-2007    6.64
Kaiserslautern v 1860 Munich     Total Goals    12-Mar-2007    0.51
Slovan Liberec v Slavia Prague     Total Goals    12-Mar-2007    3.96
Southend v Burnley     Total Goals    13-Mar-2007    0.59
Luton v Hull     Total Goals    13-Mar-2007    0.2
Coventry v Wolves     Total Goals    13-Mar-2007    0.55
Southampton v Cardiff     Total Goals    13-Mar-2007    4.12
Rimini v Lecce     Total Goals    13-Mar-2007    7.2
Tottenham v Braga     Total Goals    14-Mar-2007    6.93
West Brom v C Palace     Total Goals    14-Mar-2007    1.36
Plymouth v Barnsley     Total Goals    14-Mar-2007    3.33
AZ Alkmaar v Newcastle     Total Goals    15-Mar-2007    3.46
Karlsruhe v Rot-Weiss Essen     Total Goals    16-Mar-2007    3.96
Southampton v Colchester     Total Goals    16-Mar-2007    3.96
1860 Munich v Augsburg     Total Goals    16-Mar-2007    4.95
Hannover v Hamburg     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    0.75
Bursaspor v Fenerbahce     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    4.95
Tottenham v Watford     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    3.96
Leicester v QPR     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    0.57
Derby v Cardiff     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    1.04
Ath Bilbao v Osasuna     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    2
Coventry v Barnsley     Total Goals    17-Mar-2007    2.18
Everton v Arsenal     Total Goals    18-Mar-2007    1.58
Kilmarnock v Hibernian     Total Goals    18-Mar-2007    1.24
Aston Villa v Liverpool     Total Goals    18-Mar-2007    1.98
Catania v Reggina     Total Goals    18-Mar-2007    0.18
Espanyol v Levante     Total Goals    18-Mar-2007    0.46
H Rostock v FC Koln     Total Goals    19-Mar-2007    3.27
Tottenham v Chelsea     Total Goals    19-Mar-2007    0.46
Man Utd v Middlesbrough     Total Goals    19-Mar-2007    0.01
Pakistan v Zimbabwe     Match Odds    21-Mar-2007    17.69
Halifax v Oxford Utd     Total Goals    21-Mar-2007    0.13
Derry v St Patricks     Total Goals    23-Mar-2007    0.9
Estonia v Russia     Match Odds    24-Mar-2007    0.33
Greece v Turkey     Total Goals    24-Mar-2007    2.78
Albinoleffe v Rimini     Total Goals    25-Mar-2007    7.11
Cesena v Mantova     Total Goals    25-Mar-2007    2.24
Crotone v Genoa     Total Goals    25-Mar-2007    9.16
Forfar v Morton     Match Odds    25-Mar-2007    2.45
Lecce v Arezzo     Total Goals    25-Mar-2007    3.96

total goals was 1% commission at the time, and you paid comm only once, on combined winnings of goal selections (as opposed to over/unders).

and more recently..?

Aug 3, 2013 -- 5:27PM, TheInvestor2 wrote:

total goals was 1% commission at the time, and you paid comm only once, on combined winnings of goal selections (as opposed to over/unders).

could you post your entire p and l for the recent 3 months and let us see if we can not reverse engineer your methods