Siwaadupa
I'm having a bit of trouble interpreting all that you say in your posts.
But let me say that I do understand your quite understandable frustration at the basic need to have to worry now about things like havibg a too high strike rates, rather than just getting on with being a very successful bettor.
But the exchange has been swamped by players not paying their way in terms of what they get out of the exchange related to what they put into it, and we all unfortunately have to live with that and pay the price.
We can't turn back the clock to how the exchange was at the beginning.
Thus you have to deal with things as they evolve.
Also it is probably an understatement to use the phrase " --- a minor adjustment to betting style to generate commissions of over 20% of profits ". It's probably not really all that minor to most, particularly those of us not botted up.
As has been said before the PC is flawed as it has captured and entrapped many quite innocent, successful bettors.
Maybe you're one of those. In that case you have my fullest sympaties.
But don't extrapolate your situation ito one of forecasted general demise of the whole exchange concept.
It's here to stay, just not as a no brainer for easy profits for a smart few.

Investor, that is a good strategy and certainly worth doing by those who get caught in the net who do a lot of trading.  Makes you feel sorry for those caught at 50/60% at inception who were judged retrospectively as they had no way to reduce their pc by taking on more risk in anticipation...

I agree FineAsFrogHair, though my point, and this is relevant to Frog2 response... Basically for my point 2), I was saying you need to reduce your pc by paying more commission. This could be done by a break even strategy.  If your calculations are out by just 1% (i.e., losing say 1p per bet) and your turnover is 10x bigger, then you're losses will be incurrecd much much quicker!  So is very risky applying a "break even" strategy when you have to increase turnover excessively!

In my opinion the best way is to just pay up and hope this is helping the exchange; as a healthy/efficient exchange is what we all want. Trying to find more profitable angles (as opposed to break even) is the best strategy imo.  It is just frustrating to pay the pc for it to feel frittered away by non-exchange bf gambles i.e., new sportsbook/that trading platform I was on about/casino etc!  I am hoping bf have got this right as I worry it could be very costly if they are wrong (in terms of it attracting more people to the exchange).

You can worry about pc until you are purple in the face.

I understand that laddies have at least one development that will catch the eye.

Returning to the opening topic, it will be interesting to see how, or if, laddies incorporate purple into their sportsbook activities.  If as they say they will use purple to manage their liabilities, it could be an interesting place.

FINE AS FROG HAIR 10 Feb 13 00:52 
" It seems strange to me that there are people who are smart enough to win pc who can't make even a minor adjustment to their betting style to generate commission of over 20% of profits".
Yes I agree, very, very strange.
Siwaadupa's vague reply to this, along the lines that he has better things to do with his time ( than using it to protect his profits), seems very iffy to me.

-------

You don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about, and your swipe about him having better things to do with his time borders on insulting.

'Fancy a pint tonight Siwaadupa?'

'No thanks mate. I have to stay in to trade some markets on the Rotherham Swindon game that's live on Sky, in the hope that I'll save 40 quid of premium charges should everything go in my favour.'

'Ok. What about tomorrow for the Champions League game?'

'Sorry, mate. I have to stay in and trade on that aswell. Premium charges don't reduce themselves.'

'Wednesday or Thursday suit better?'

'No not really. More Champions League and Europa League action. Don't want to be sat in the pub seething at a goaless second half that might have saved a few quid of premium charges if I the markets had gone the way I'd hoped and my bets had been matched.'

'Fair enough. How about getting a bite to eat on Sunday?'

'Don't think so. It's the Aussie Open tennis so I need to trade markets on that. Then there are 2 premier league games to trade on, with the Spanish games at night. I suppose if the final isn't a 5 setter I could fit in a quick bite around midday. I have to get those premium charges down. I'll let you know.'


People having families, friends, hobbies and social lives. Yes, very, very iffy.

Nice post john.

The best way to reduce pc is to bet less on this exchange, not more

All good points John, but only if you are a recreational punter.
If you're on here to make a professional living, then such sacrifices might just have to be part of the equation.
Or have you magically found a way of earning a living that involves no personal inconveniences ?

at the very least , all profits from PC on horse racing should be invested tp improve picture speeds , which would then give more players a chance to win , attract new/old customers to betting in play , from all over the world if streams were quick enough , which would create more commission , i think

If you had any idea what it involves in practise, and all the things that have to go right in order for the pc to be reduced by a significant enough amount to make such 'sacrifices' worthwhile then you might not post such nonsense.

The point stands whether recreational or professional. The time and effort it takes, not even to reduce the charge but simply to give yourself a chance of reducing the charge, has to be weighed against what you may possibly gain.

Siwaadupa said as much and you deemed this to be 'iffy' and 'strange' which is what I took exception to. It is a stupid thing to say and smacks of someone not knowing what they are talking about, and talking about it in the manner of a know all.

Finally, if reducing the charge is as easy as you seem to think, then I would find it strange as you would put it, if you don't spend 18 hours a day on here picking up all the free money on offer.

I bid you good day. The Guimaraes B game won't trade itself

GREAT REPLY JOHN92

Curly wurly and John
I think all you can deduce from this difference of opinions is that the PC affects us all differently because of the entirely different betting strategies we all employ.
In my case I don't trade any games ever and so am not enslaved to watching and following games for hours on end.
If you have to do that to make a living  on here, if that is indeed what you are aiming to do, then you have my sympathies.
It must be tough, and must be made tougher by the PC problem.
But the bottom line is that it is a problem that is probably not going to go away, and you have to deal with it.
If the price of doing so is too high from a personal lifestyle point of view, then clearly you have a tough choice to make.
Do it tough, or find an easier way to make a living.
Btw my wife already thinks I love BF far more than her.
I know that at elast it costs me less than her.

Also John I'm sorry that I have obviously mixed you up with someone else.
I did not mean to insult you by inferring that you were a bot salesman in the manner of being a used car salesman.
Apologies if that is what you thought for any reason.

No worries on that score, I was confused rather than insulted as bots are alien to me. Indeed for many years I was blissfully unaware of the auto refresh app.

askari,  I do virtually the same as hazel,  I lay books on the win and place markets.  Purple is not an option at the moment because of the liquidity.  We will see what happens there in the coming months.

askari I did indeed lay books in the past, and make a handsome profit.  However things have changed on here and it is nowhere near as easy as the early days before traders narrowed the margins.  Hence I pay 60% now regardless of how I operate.  I have tried having losers in the book, but I still get clobbered with the 60% charge.  The problem as I see it for me is that the charge is based on 11 years of past history. If it was based on the last year I would try to adapt.  There is no way I can reduce the charge to 50%, let alone 40% (20% seems like heaven to me), as the sums of money involved are beyond my means.

So I am stuck, I either pay the PC2 or move on.  I am happily paying 5% (although 3% is available) on the rival exchange, whereby I do have losers in the book.  The difference being that I don't get clobbered with the 60% charge.

I am a recreational player, I am not trying to make a living from gambling.  I pity the full timers on here that have been hit with the charge. 

On moving to the rival, perseverance was needed at first, and tweaking of strategies. I keep a diminishing interest here for information purposes.  I used to love Betfair, It has been very good to me in the past, but I cant see the PC2 situation getting any better, so its a no brainer for me to move on to other things. 

Adapt and survive should be everyones motto.

rcing, I for one am sick of tired of not being able to watch a race, esp. one I bet on so I cd see it, because 'an unexpected error (ext113) occurred. Place a bet to watch this market'.

They shd get what to them are the small things right--the video loading, the site not crashing, bets not being replicated, bets either appearing IR or being cancelled consistently when they are placed within the reconciliation etc...--and only then worry about long-term strategy.

They will please no one being such a mixed bag.

askari,  I'm not far off paying 60% PC,  once that happens I'm finished on here unless they they scrap it or change the rules.  I don't have fast pics, don't bet in running, enter all bets manually and lay every horse in the race.

Wrong Coner.
The better players have adapted to the PC and are still making good money on here.
But I suspect deep down in your heart, you sort of know that don't you ?
But keep the debate going by all means.
All good fun, if you're time rich ( as I for one must obviously be).

Are you crazy Trevh, leaping even partially to my defence ?.
That's a quick way to perdition on here.
Btw I shrug all these personal attacks off.
After all I'm only expressing my opinion on things, not claiming ever either to be correct or even particularly credible.
Hell it's only a gambling forum after all.

" It is a stupid thing to say and smacks of someone not knowing what they are talking about, and talking about it in the manner of a know all." - john92

Every single post FROG HAIR makes is like this. He used to just blatant fish for info but when that didn't work he's adopted this smart a rse posting style, I assume to aid him in learning by correction.

His posts consist of either non-stop drivel or a rehash of something he has read somewhere,either in a book or elsewhere on the forum.

Just read this entire thread, there is one thing I am sure of, lads are not going to try and take bf on in the exchange market place with an aggressive marketing campaign and seeded liquidity exchange. The Lads fixed odds product and  therfore the Lads market share has lost massive amounts of ground over the last 5 years to WH, PP, 3.65 and lads are desperate to reverese this. They are buying BetDQ for its  technolgy as they believe it will allow them to be more agile in giving fixed odds punters more/better bet offerings and more in play betting, as they will be less reliant on an Openbet ....for the same reasons that bf are morphing to fixed odds Lads will concentrate on fixed odds- they both believe thats where they can make the most money.