Betfair feeding £2 bets into inplay markets counter productive?

Excuse my ignorance, but how do you know it's Betfair doing this, have they announced this policy somewhere?

I agree with the sentiment that microbots topping prices disincentivises users from putting money up though, and it's never been restricted to just in play either. It's inevitable though given how pro robot Betfair are and the fact that they haven't stopped it means either they still make enough money in these markets, or they don't know how to stop it.

I agree, i'm sure they're behind the bet 365 tracker bot as well - markets that maybe matched 5/10k now match less than 1k.

It's easy to assume it's betfair because otherwise you'd think they might do something about it

So you offer relatively poor value odds to get the market going - then someone puts 2 quid in front of you.  Try putting decent odds up to start with and I'm sure someone will have a nibble.

john23-its a little more complicated than that.When I put the question I realised it was likely to generate such comments.Thanks for the contribution.
ics-took it for granted it was betfair,very interesting if its not.

Can't believe its Betfair as it would be counter productive and they've always denied doing similar things in the past.  Betfair have introduced transaction charges which I would have thought make it uneconomical for such a wide ranging strategy across many markets. 

You don't have to be the best priced offer on someat to get matched in any case especially if the offer directly in front of you is only £2.  Price offerers are often far too impatient about being at the front of the queue.

I doubt it's Betfair, it's just a customer who is using a bot.

john23 has it completely right. If these £2 bets are in front of you, it's because you are offering rubbish odds. Stop whining.

Mr Magoo,appreciate you may interpret my post in this way.It is not as simple as that.I was flagging it up as these markets appear to be completely dead these days.

Yeah, that's not Betfair, just bots.

I've gone for the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach, and let my own microbetting bot loose on the markets with £2-£40 stakes.

I remember the good old days of manual football betting:
1) Put bets up at night
2) In the morning, after breakfast and before leaving for work, adjust bets if someone has jumped in front.
3) In the evening, after work, trade out of bets for the football matches that evening.

The whole process took about 20 minutes a day, and back in 2007, I was making about a tenner a day doing that with a 20% ROI. Wouldn't even get matched doing that now I think.

Yes, remember manual trades.   Exactly as described by TheInvestor but I worked at home so add several other periods of 'adjustment'. The patience of a zen master, at times.

I also remember the first bots arriving on the markets.  (destroyed my traditional 6.2 / 6.8 third fave free bet trades by filling the gap

However, I do remember the joy of putting up 1.02 / £100 lays at night on the greyhounds, going to bed and rushing down stairs like it was Christmas morning to see what was matched as someone fired up their bot for the first time.    It went on for weeks.

Contrarily, it was great watching the bots fired up with no ceiling and they would push each other up into the ozone, my 29/1 waiting on a 12/1 long shot. 

Oh, the days........'take out' on a whim

Thanks for the replies.Apologies to betfair did not realise bots would be used for such small sums.Looking at the smaller inplay markets on football recently they have appear to have  effectively killed these off.Layers don't want to put up large amounts on a near 100% market and backers can't be bothered to take the little amounts on offer.

Nowdays the going rate appears to be 1.11 on the dog markets. That's over five times better value for punters

I've got no sympathy if you are betting on derivative based side football markets and someone jumps in front of you.  You are not really market making if you are setting prices that are often just simple derivatives of others.  Basically you are just copying the market like the micro bot that jumps in front of you.

I've got no sympathy if you are betting on derivative based side football markets and someone jumps in front of you.  You are not really market making if you are setting prices that are often just simple derivatives of others.  Basically you are just copying the market like the micro bot that jumps in front of you.


That may apply to some of the side markets, but many others are not so straightforward to derive, and can only be done so relative to a (possibly contentious) model.

Sep 9, 2012 -- 10:12PM, Mr Magoo wrote:

I doubt it's Betfair, it's just a customer who is using a bot.john23 has it completely right. If these £2 bets are in front of you, it's because you are offering rubbish odds. Stop whining.

If the volumes are dropping, it's probably nothing to do with the prices on offer and more to do with the punters not being interesting in wazzing their money away at -15% EV on next player to cry markets.

Betfair have been closing down/regulating territories all over the shop recently so it might even be a small group of punters who merrily lost their rent every month into their favourite side markets being banned from the site due to local regulation.

They use £3 bots aswell

nbdsetc. 

Guess what these market makers keep pumping their large liquidity into the football side markets - they're at it in the Vallecano Madrid game.  Let me give you some examples of their generous odds.

Madrid are currently winning 1-0 and are 1.04 to win a half and a back of Madrid appears at evens to win a half for 1434 so the 2 quid blocker bets go up.  Vallencano to win a half - a lay gets put up at 878 for evens - so the blocker bets go up at 5 6 7 etc.

Another good example was in the Liverpool Man U game yesterday-Man U took the lead and were 1.2 to win the match - then a very generous lay of Man U to win a half for 878 at 1.5 (should have been 7.0)went up, so my blocker bets went up at 5 6 etc.

This generous market maker has been at it for many months - how do I kno it's the same person? because they like to bet in the following stakes - 232, 343, 454, 676, 767, 878. No doubt the stakes will change now they've been tumbled.

They are normally the only ones offering large odds in these side markets and I'm the only one putting up blocker bets.  Cannot believe someone would thing Betfair would mess about with 2 quid bots.

Vallecano to win form behind 155 at 9.0 - true odds 34.0.  Good work if you can get it.

I'll keep you posted.

Ryder Cup - day 3 singles - tie 767 @ 2.0 - someone is trying to lay the same outcome at 5ish. He has them up for all possible options but other users sensible lays has crowded him out of the interface.

At it again in the players points Ryder Cup.  220%+ overrounds. Maybe this market maker is just getting the market going.

nbsetc.

He's at it again in the Leeds Everton game - in the everton to win from behind market trying to lay everton not to win from behind at 1.12 for 998 - tut tut tut. they are only 2.8 at the moment.

Leeds not to win a half 656 @ 1.4. Currently leading 1-0 - tut tut tut.

I'm like a dog with a bone at the moment.

nbsetc. we need you help you - stated you put up large amounts in these football side markets can you get some up to do the snide market maker up like a kipper or shall I just stick some blocker to quids up?

Wigan to win from behind 343 @ 2.1 - currently 3.7 - has the man no shame.

That Wigan bet is bordering on sheer deception nsb as it intially traded at 18's plus.

Thankfully the market maker with the large bet up for leeds to win a half at 5/2 hasn't netted anyone yet.  Currentyl 1.25 to win first half.

Wigan go in front with a couple of mins to go in the first half and a 1.3 lay for 656 not to half goes up.  tut tut tut.

they now go 3-1 up and he wants to back them to win a half for 545 at evens.

I hope you now understand why the 2 quid bets went up nsbetc. I hope I ddint get in the way of your bets as I only wanted to block the scum as previously described.

Now wanted to back Wigan to win from behind for 545 at evens - they are 1.22. Shameless.

Wigan 998 1.55 lay to win second half - these odds should be 4.3 - is this organised deception.  He must catch some poor sods out quite regular to be so persist with this filth.

Wigan win both halves 565 @ 1.5 lay - naughty boy.  try 4-1.

Calm down john you'll give yourself a headache.
Trap betting scum are everywhere and have been for ages, it's not like you've discovered the wheel here.
Like most threads in this place one person goes wildly off topic missing the original point completely.

This is a classic nsbcetc.  West ham to win from behind 133 @ 4.0 - they are currently trading at 19.0.

Curly - I was sticking up 2 quid blocker bets on one person only - no one else, all in these footy side markets.  As stated before they were easily spotted by their stakes  - 545, 343.  It can as quite a surprise to me that another market maker came on to ruck about 2 quid bets going in front of them as I was only blocking one user. Is Sherlock Holmes about?

Would you fancy laying Man u +3 for 21.0 @ 343 when they are 1 up against Liverpool with minutes to go. Hopefully my little rant might help some poor sod to be on their guard.

Curly you might want to have another butchers at the OP.

Wolves to qualify lay 998 @ 1.04 - currently losing 5-0

you've got the wrong end of the stick john imo

You're blocking trap bets, not legitimate bets. Offering 2.5 about a 2.6 shot is what this game is all about.
If mr newbie enters a random spanish basketball match and is confronted with a screen full of £2 bets he's going to go elsewhere.

These bets are going up only in the markets I previously described, they are quite new footy side markets (no other markets) and like ghost towns, except for his large market maker trying to pull peoples pants down.  If someone wanted to put in decent odds the blockers wouldn't interfere with them.  It was quite surprising when 'someone else' came on here to ruck about a 2 quid  bot.  Maybe coincidence but after months of effing about with this tw*t I never saw these other alleged amounts going up by an alernative market maker. They stopped one individual only.

I haven't bothered putting up reasonable amounts at reasonable prices (not derivative prices and so I could well be wrong with my odds, giving a smarter punter the chance of a winner) because of these £2 bots.  Sometimes I may only be matched with £5 or so and immediately these £2 bots are taking half of my bet.  Some even have hidden a string of amounts of less than £2 which means it's even less point me putting up decent size amounts as every time someone bets £5, the hidden bets are matched and they instantaneously put up more hidden bets.  So I don't put anything up and nobody bets as just £2 at crappy odds available.

I believe what the OP was saying was instead of side markets having a 108% book (for example) with a 2k takeout each side, they are now 103% books with £2 takeout each side.
The market makers can't be arsed leapfrogging £2 bots and the market dies a death.
Nothing whatsoever to do with trap bets.