General Betting
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£600 Million at risk - answers to questions required
£600 Million at risk - answers to questions required
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Replies: 168
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I'm getting different responses from the API from earlier. It's either because they are playing with it, or the API is inconsistent when very large amounts are entered
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What happens to the poor sods that backed @ 29 and layed at 12 on Daq? Looks like they take an haircut for someone elses mistake.
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In fairness, anyone who did that wouldn't have survived in the arbing world long anyway.
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Dstyle, thanks for that. Very interesting and kudos for your sherlock skills.
If you are right then this is an issue that would have occurred before. I have no doubt several people must have tested entering huge numbers in the past when they havent had the funds to allow it (people get bored very easily when their money is gone). Do you think someone was chncing their arm with this or do you think Betfair are correct and it is just a technical fault they could do nothing about? |
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journo alert!
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there's a very healthy chance i'm wrong about all of this prestbury, but the ability to enter a stake big enough isn't possible through the website. this is one reason why it might have slipped through. it would have to be done via software, so it possibly restricts the number of people who may have tried it.
i really hope it is a simple technical error though. if not, then as Artisan suggests in his opening post, it opens up a whole can of rather unsavoury worms. |
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Betfair has lost its way a bit and in my eyes has lost a bit of credibility in the last 12 months. They need to re group and get somebody good to take the reins.
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E&B, they've got less chance of doing that than Tony Blair.
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I not understand. In Carling Cup Betfair allow people to bet with more money than they had in accounts. They lose more than their exposure limit. People on other side of bets got paid wins. People who losed have only small loss then Betfair paid rest.
Now someone have bet which is more than their exposure limit. People on other side of bets not got paid wins though. Person lose nothing who has placed this bet. It is same story but two different settlement? If goes to court, how can Betfair explain difference? There is no difference. In both cases people took big prices on horse and on Theo Walcott. Both wins. One get paid win, one does not. Make it up as Betfair go alongs? |
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my two cents:
can just imagine the response on here if BF announced they were paying out on principle and would go bust as a result. it's not possible to run this kind of a website if it's permanently vulnerable to being bankrupted by someone finding a loophole they hadn't spotted. there needs to be some kind of remedy they can resort to in cases like this, unpalatable and inconsistent though some of the consequences of that may be. |
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Right, what do I type into my stake box again? Boom, or Bust BF, great new strategy there.....
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youtube clip showing the lay at the start of the clip was £21,368,000 and a bit. looks very suspiciously like a max 32 bit int value finding a loophole was the culprit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySQ94Ha5a2U |
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Find it really hard to understand that weird betfair screen but does someone really put a fiver in front of it at one point?
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yeah flies round sh!t
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thought the cross matcher would be putting up loads at the other odds, but doesnt look like much was happening on the other runners
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As this can't be done manually via the website or via the API, must have been a HTTP post by software.
However, i'm still suprised the bet went through. Surely, the server code would have threw an exception when trying to assign the big number to the integer variable? |
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Whatever that screen is on youtube it must be using the API where cross matcher amounts dont appear, would be nice to see similar timeline of the web interface.
Its funny that the short priced loser actually came in to 1.04 against what was happening on the racetrack and with nothing pushing it as the 29 lay didnt move. |
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amazed more of that 29s didnt go
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21,474,836.47
clip ends at 20652365 with 1642094 matched. 1642094/2 + 20652365 = 21,473,412 only 1424 missing More food for the 32 bit integer theory, its very very close to it |
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Pardon my ignorance but whats the 32 bit integer?
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Think it's the only theory that makes sense brendan.
1424 could easily be cross matching. |
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You will need to dig a bit to really understand its not simple stuff even for general betting, if your not familiar to data types and computing you may struggle but here is a wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integer_overflow Should never happen but could well do if its a number of strange (ie not tested) scenarios fall into place at same time. |
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Does anyone know amounts matched on purple site? Pls.
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Now I'm neither an IR punter nor a HR punter.
But didn't the apparent enormous spike in betting activity on one horse trigger any sort of alarm bells in other punters. If they did, then why jump in on such a manifest abnormality ? Or are such spikes totally run of the mill occurrences ? |
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watch some markets and count them
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cheers brendan
will take a look |
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I meant on the race in question in-play on vvd.
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Lori : Find it really hard to understand that weird betfair screen but does someone really put a fiver in front of it at one point?
Hehe yes a fiver bless 'em. The screen is probably Geeks Toy or something similar, you should look at using API software Lori, the website is prehistoric in comparison :) That guy had a 112k win on that race, a bit like winning the lottery and losing the ticket! |
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Frog, they didn't really jump in, most of it was unmatched. Punters do tend to look a gift horse in the mouth :)
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did we not have an integer overflow problem when the bat IDs reached a significant figure, I rememember all the IT guys laughing their c*cks off at error at the time.
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VLV *
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thanks for the Link brendan, I rem looking forward to seeing my peugeot going round the clock, but sadly I missed the magical moment
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this what i dont understand it would surely have been better for betfair to say exceeded account balance then exceeded exposure limit, this implies the layer could cover the bet.
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Betfair treated me abysmally a few years back, so this is nothing new.
I put a jackpot on at Cheltenham and premed some selections at 10p unit stake. the bet came to around £50 in total. Placed the bet and the bet confirmed. Logged out and settled down to watch the races on the telly. Well, I managed to find all six winners and calculated that i'd scooped £5K. I told the missus that was her kitchen paid for. On logging back into Betfair, there was no sign of the funds. On checking the statement, I noticed that my stake had been refunded some minutes after the bet was struck. It turns out that the minimum unit atake was 50p. I argued that they should have had software in place that prevented a unit stake of less than 50p being entered and morally they were obliged to pay out as the bet was accepted. of course, I couldn't win and they ended up giving me £25 as a good will gesture - woopy ******* do. |
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another link with example of underflow/overflow in java with customer balances
http://weblogs.asp.net/dvravikanth/archive/2008/03/10/integer-overflow-amp-underflow-revisited.aspx |
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Actually if you pause it at 0:09 it's £60 at 30, not £5
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someone may have found a way to over ride their exposure limit and decided to cash in by backing at a rival site - winning all ways up .
obviously they would have preferred today's horse in question to lose but still a few healthy ££££ in any case. it will be an interesting outcome anyway |
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this customer up to now possibly raking in £100s,1000s then bot glitch or typing error(tis the season--eat/drink/be merry) is his undoing.
betfairs excuse fails the SMELL test |
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Brendanuk1 - That's a great find. I suspect you and Dstyle are getting close to what's happened.
Given what we know about the general level of muppetry at BF towers I can see that someone may well have stuffed up the treatment of a preferential customer. |