Feedback needed-- what would your ideal betfair app feature!

I would like a self learning mode. I show the software what markets I'm interested in, it then spends a couple of weeks examining the markets and creating a range of artificial neural networks or similar. I then choose any or all of the networks to bet for real. The networks continue to be updated in real time in order to reflect market evolution. I retire.

bf fanatic....where do you live?  My beautiful mind has created "revolutionary product" that will shake up the app world and it is on my blackboard right now.

I would like an app that learns to trade for itself, earns plenty of money , and at the end of the week automatically withdraws the weekly wages and sends an sms to myself on my own private island off tahiti , telling me how much it won for me each week.

Fred and Joel, all betfair users share your wishes for such an automated app, these do exist but the authors will never market them as there are too many negative effects that would happen to selections prices and such super users make enough money without needing income from app sales!

I am looking for an app design that makes making your own concepts easy to test and implement for real!

Shapeshifter sounds very good and all tyhe best with your project, I am based in  Lancashire.

auto-selection is an option for an exchange app but only if firstly designed and set by the individual users, perhaps an insight into the ranges and data relevant to various users would be a help to overall design.

I have explored my own concepts already bf_fan. They are no good, and I know they are no good. Hence my request for something that can discover new concepts.

I see what you mean Fred and where your coming from, this has set a seed of thought in germination for me but for now I cant disclose, winning concepts and betting operations are feasible and applied all the time by many, if there were a way to share profitably and globally via an app
openly available then this mechanism could be deployable in a controlled manner.

It's good that you see my point but now you're heading for fantasy land with delusions of grandeur

A group of e.g. artificial neural networks could interpret a set of data numerous ways - no two bots or strategies would be identical, hence no problem with lots of users. They may latch onto common trends but they would only turn out identical if they were being incorrectly biased.

Not sure what your interpretation of neural network is and would it would be relevant to automating betting programs? Human beings use neural networks which means they are not biased into making the correct bets but isn't that the reason why so many seek an auto-bot which will perform the same selections in the market correct to its conditional betting plan and therefore render mass usage of such application useless.

Not sure what you mean by be being deluded as I am only performing logical thinking even though I am hindered by neural network wiring in my own brain, still I cant complain about organic designs that have been evolving for 450,000,000 years as compared to 50 years are so for A.I.

BTW find me one programming language that has neural network commnads or fuzzy logic commnads and I will send you a ladder to climb rainbows.

IF,NOT,WHEN and the like would have to be replace with might,cant and maybe in a fuzzy logic language, hardly the stuff of dreams.

I was just using ANNs as an example of a computer learning technique. There are many techniques, and mostly over my head. A bots main strength is the ease with which it can handle repetitive calculation and bet submission, making it worthwhile to follow just about any barely profitable strategy. It is true that mass usage would still cause market evolution.

Feel free to ignore my comments on delusion. Your philanthropic sounding global sharing thoughts tickled me.

I can see the source of your amusement on global sharing of profitable activity but also there is some logic to this as it seems 98% of betfair customers need help in winning, thats a huge market of opportunity.

one thing that is true is that you cant have 100% winners using any betting company all the time unless we live in the land where the cow jumped over the moon.

For me, it would be the ability to place conditional bets, to be kept in running,
without the need for Excel.

I can do it with Gruss, but every race has to be reset individually, so it can't be put up,
and left to run for the day, while I do more fulfilling things!

Similarly with Bet Angel, where keep in running bets have to be resubmitted, as the event goes in play.

With BetBotPro I can do it, but only by allowing the bot to hold the current price, but not allow it to be matched until it has moved by x points from the starting position.

Apologies to any of the software providers if any of these are now possible (I haven't used Bet Angel for some time)!

Thanks Aunty post, you hit the nail on the head, I myself am pretty good with excel and vba but both the products you mention leave a lot to be desired with there excel integration, excel in my view should be for importing/exporting selections and reports and the app itself should handle all the betting in what ever form the users requires, conditional or preselected selections, also I have been considering having automation for the app to watch market movements and try to get the best price possible for users selections via dynamic market changes and conditions as having to do this manually is a labour.

another missing feature from most apps is the ability to accomodate late-off events as these markets are late in maturing and if set to seconds before event start will land you with lesser odds and lesser liquidity, my observing the book overound and using this as a secondary trigger it is possible to suspend bets in im-mature markets till the market is more productive.

I use touch.betfair to do most my betting.

Save Password (Please! I know this might need an additional "are you sure you want to do this?" but it is frustrating to keep being timed out and having to re-type the password when going to place a bet, sometimes this means you miss the odds you wanted)

Favourite sports (Which would affect e.g. the front page 'in play' selection. At the moment the live sports front page always shows for me some lithuanian football match instead of the test match cricket I'm interested in!) This could also be another screen, so you could list "all sports" or "favourite sports". This list could either be done like current bookmark system or generated automatically when a category is bet on.

Default bet amount (setting). Currently going to the bet screen is improved over the old functionality, but it defaults to a £2 bet. It would be great to be able to have a settings page where this default was editable.

Better support for multiple result markets (Such as prem relegation market. full site shows 2.12,-2, but touch.betfair just shows the first from my experience.)

Market history graph screens. (These are one of the most useful (or at least interesting/fun) tools when assessing whether to bet on events, but the market history isn't available on touch).

(In a dream world) Forum support!

I see you uyse touch.betfair which if I am right is for mobile devices, there is something very satisfying about using touch screens to place bets which is the same for all touch screen technology now with its wide acceptance and popularity, must be very annoying when you have to retype your login details when you get disconnection events, the session token should last over an hour but because mobile devices can be stolen or misplaced while active they mostly ask for a new login. the main betfair site also for me does this a lot and is most annoying when trying to get a good price, one could even miss a bet because of this hitch.

ror  what type of device do you use betfair.touch on and if you use it at home why do you prefer this to a pc BF app?

I use it on HTC desire, but mostly use it because my PC isn't a laptop and my TV is in a different room.

But also because it's just somehow nicer to use than the main site, even if it does think my balance is 1p short!

I do like these android tablets having had one earlier in the year and the ipads sound great but are a bit over-priced, htc desire has quite a good sized screen on it so must be quite good for placing bets, I have a laptop but its got that much pluggged into it I cant get it in the living room and wouldnt mind a touch tablet for general reading and web research as they are far more comfortable in the hand, did you know that Steve jobs the late great visionary of apple not only designed the touch technology we all crave an use but also was the first to implement a window environment on pcs(macs) then copied by ibm and microsoft, he also pioneered the mouse we all use now, and last but not least the internet was invented on one of his NEXT machines which was the first computer with a modem.

Would we not be better having a betfair interface that doesn't require an app or do people like things being more complicated than necessary so they can feign intelligence?

good point feck but having a more complicted website for betfair would be counter-productive as if the average person ventures on to betfair and thought he was using a space shuttle simulater they would never return or lokk for the ejector button, apps are important for persons wishing to control there betting to a higher degree than is possible on the more user friendly web-site.

I wasn't suggesting a more complicated website bff. Quite the opposite in fact.

betting exchanges offer better betting for all gamblers and also allow complex trading activity to occur with its amazing API interface but it still requires all types of users to be able to have interfaces that meet there needs without requiring months of learning curves with excel,vba, trading stratergies and form research which would only be acoplished by a small minority , its about connecting betting ideas to actual betting and coming out on top or are we just doing it for pure fun?

Why must it accommodate middlemen bff?

True Feck I reckon the average person must struggle with the standard betfair interface, decimal odds, little column labeling, multiple prices per trade and the annoying confirm box that by the time you fill in is unmatched and as for laying nearly all of us didnt have a clue how that worked until we banged our heads on the wall many times.

Middlemen? not sure what you mean feck

Traders bff.

because trading is what has made befair so great, by allowing the abilty to trade just like the forex markets, betfair has become the number one betting site but its very difficult for most users to undertake as a complex and dynamic acitivity and this is where automated software comes into play.

Total sh1te bff. In what way does having middlemen sit between gamblers make betfair great?

betfair has become the number one betting site

Number 1 trading site, yes, but that's not hard considering the competition is piss poor. If ever the legislation on gambling in america changed and sites like betfair were not longer prohibited, the betting companies over there would blow betfair out of the water.

In general terms, the Number 1 betting site are the ones with the biggest profit margins - that's not betfair. For customers though of course it'd be here.

I think in todays world you have to do something revolutionary if you want to compete in PC market so I would like to see descent trading apps made for iPad for instance or for other post PC devices...

its the current control the casinos have in the senate that blows the likes of betfair out of the water as you say because they are prohibited from having American customers and as for the American competition blowing betfair out the water if Americans gain the right to bet online then how come no American company can hold a flame to british ones over here now? as for the marginal profit margin hot potato betfair still make a healthy profit considering the amount they have invested in infra-structure, this profit can only keep increasing over time as betfair are still evolving and by no means matured. Any way thanks for dragging this thread off topic by being negative over other matters and lets try to stay on track.

PMSL
Any way thanks for dragging this thread off topic by being negative over other matters and lets try to stay on track.

Coming from someone called Betfair Fanatic I'm not going to dance to your tune, a democratic society doesn't work like that- if you don't like differering opinions to your own - than it's advisable you don't give your own for fear of conflict.I answered a point you made, if the threads sidetracked - blame the comment I copied and pasted of yours in my previous post that needed addressing.

Betfair - whether making a healthy profit or not - is not relevant to my point which is they are not the number one betting site - there are a few above them in the UK alone - in terns of profit margins.

If there were an american version of betfair in america and that subsequently drew up rival competitors - given it's pool of potential customers and the way Americans in turn do business - you can be sure as hell it'd be a much better service than Betfair.

An application which will replicate prices I put in running on both BF and Purple from a single screen - also replicating cancel and showing a single matched P&L figure too.  I'm sure individuals have this written for them already, but off the shelf functionality would be great.

What do you mean requires an app feck? I just navigate to touch.Betfair.com and navigate from there, no app involved. There is a market place Betfair app but it is just a web wrapper AFAIK.

TheVis--It is possible to make an app that logs into BF and BD and do as you require but not sure of the legality regarding API licensing for such an app and also the feature would not be one generally desired by punters.

A better approach would be to have 2 separate apps that could synchronize activity but still very difficult to achieve as there will be slight differences in market prices/volumes but not impossible and having ordered windows for each on the display would be easy enough.

Save Password (Please! I know this might need an additional "are you sure you want to do this?" but it is frustrating to keep being timed out and having to re-type the password when going to place a bet, sometimes this means you miss the odds you wanted)

That was my point about the additional security requests!

If in a perfect world, if they opened it up to America and Hong Kong, the markets would get an instant injection of millions of pounds per event.

My request for an app would be to alert you when Betfair log into your account, tell you how long they were there and what markets they looked at.
But the biggest of all would be to display all the odds net of commission, pc1 pc2 and pc3.
If that happened, the place would be tumbleweed town.
Amazed that it isn't already.

I agree that the bots should be far more programmable without the need for excel. But they really won't be developed much more because the traders are providing the revenue for the developers, so financially, it's not worth it for them.
Really a bot has unlimited programming variables, and about 1% of them are in there.
You don't need a bot to have logic, it just need to be able to assess a miriad of IF statements in milliseconds.

on the subject of additional security what if when users log into there accounts you have to verify via sms that you are the actual user logging on, this type of security is used already by other companies and could be an optional security level for those that require it.

might be problematic though when used outside of the uk because of network differences but an email version could also be an option.

you should never save your passwords though on any device as if the device is stolen there are obvious dangers to your accounts.

What do you mean requires an app feck? I just navigate to touch.Betfair.com and navigate from there, no app involved. There is a market place Betfair app but it is just a web wrapper AFAIK.

ror, there are simple ways of placing a bet with betfair but they generally put you at a disadvantage inasmuch as you're not using all the information available to you. IMO the availability of that information (and the interface that supports it) deters rather than attracts liquidity.