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I have just received a letter from First Direct informing me that I have to stop using my bank account for 'gambling transactions' within 60 days or they will close my account. This follows an 'account review' on the telephone two days ago when some functionary asked me lots of asinine questions about transactions into and out of my account. These transactions include deposits to and withdrawals from Betfair and various on-line bookmakers plus debit card payments and receipts from shops and a few cash withdrawals before Cheltenham etc. I answered every question openly and honestly as I have nothing to hide, including putting the jerk on the phone right a few times including when he asked me what a receipt from 'Lk action' was, when it actually said Acton and referred to a Ladbrokes shop.
HSBC, the owners of First Direct, have made thousands from me over the years by not paying interest on a current account. I am obviously going to open new accounts as I am not going to be told by these cretins how I spend my money. However, I would welcome any observations and insights from Forum users on any aspects of this, including:
1. Has anyone else experienced this, with which banks, and how did they deal with it?
2. Given that I have to open a new account, which banks are easiest to open an account, which don't have silly rules about needing to receive a salary payment each month, and which will just leave me alone until I die or become too senile to pursue my hobby and not scrutinise my account usage and make such outrageous judgement on customers based on scant information?
3. Could I, or should I, try to make some bad publicity for First Direct, and, if so, how might I do this?
All comments welcomed - thanks in anticipation
HSBC, the owners of First Direct, have made thousands from me over the years by not paying interest on a current account. I am obviously going to open new accounts as I am not going to be told by these cretins how I spend my money. However, I would welcome any observations and insights from Forum users on any aspects of this, including:
1. Has anyone else experienced this, with which banks, and how did they deal with it?
2. Given that I have to open a new account, which banks are easiest to open an account, which don't have silly rules about needing to receive a salary payment each month, and which will just leave me alone until I die or become too senile to pursue my hobby and not scrutinise my account usage and make such outrageous judgement on customers based on scant information?
3. Could I, or should I, try to make some bad publicity for First Direct, and, if so, how might I do this?
All comments welcomed - thanks in anticipation
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1. Has anyone else experienced this, with which banks, and how did they deal with it?
I haven't had any similar experience but there have been other threads relating to this matter posted on this forum that you could search through.
2. Given that I have to open a new account, which banks are easiest to open an account, which don't have silly rules about needing to receive a salary payment each month, and which will just leave me alone until I die or become too senile to pursue my hobby and not scrutinise my account usage and make such outrageous judgement on customers based on scant information?
There may be a few banks that actively do not wish to facilitate gambling transactions but, based on the content of previous threads, it seems that randomness plays a significant part as to whether you will have any problems with any given bank relating to such transactions. Client A may have had absolutely no problems with Bank X processing thousands of gambling transactions over the past 10 years but this doesn't mean that the same will apply to clients B and C.
Whilst many banks nominally require you to have your "salary of at least £x/month" paid into the account, in reality most accept any form of payment of £x into the account each month. In most cases you can simply set up standing orders cycling £x through all applicable current accounts.
3. Could I, or should I, try to make some bad publicity for First Direct, and, if so, how might I do this?
First Direct prides itself on it's comparatively high level of customer service; perhaps you could make further attempts to resolve this matter with them? If that fails, you could certainly highlight your problems on gambling forums, as you have done here. However, I wouldn't expect anybody who doesn't gamble regularly to care less and frankly why should they?
I haven't had any similar experience but there have been other threads relating to this matter posted on this forum that you could search through.
2. Given that I have to open a new account, which banks are easiest to open an account, which don't have silly rules about needing to receive a salary payment each month, and which will just leave me alone until I die or become too senile to pursue my hobby and not scrutinise my account usage and make such outrageous judgement on customers based on scant information?
There may be a few banks that actively do not wish to facilitate gambling transactions but, based on the content of previous threads, it seems that randomness plays a significant part as to whether you will have any problems with any given bank relating to such transactions. Client A may have had absolutely no problems with Bank X processing thousands of gambling transactions over the past 10 years but this doesn't mean that the same will apply to clients B and C.
Whilst many banks nominally require you to have your "salary of at least £x/month" paid into the account, in reality most accept any form of payment of £x into the account each month. In most cases you can simply set up standing orders cycling £x through all applicable current accounts.
3. Could I, or should I, try to make some bad publicity for First Direct, and, if so, how might I do this?
First Direct prides itself on it's comparatively high level of customer service; perhaps you could make further attempts to resolve this matter with them? If that fails, you could certainly highlight your problems on gambling forums, as you have done here. However, I wouldn't expect anybody who doesn't gamble regularly to care less and frankly why should they?
This is pretty ridiculous, I don't see why they should judge you like they clearly are. A drug dealer could technically have a bank account where he paid in cash every week and they wouldn't give a toss.
a few cash withdrawals before Cheltenham
If it's true that they mentioned this, that is shocking!!
a few cash withdrawals before Cheltenham
If it's true that they mentioned this, that is shocking!!
thebert,
The primary reason that gamblers experience the problems highlighted by the original poster is precisely because banks are obliged to give a toss where there is reason to suspect an account may be, or is being, used in relation to criminal activities such as drug dealing or money laundering.
If it were perceived by the authorities that a particular bank was failing in their obligations in this area, it could face very serious sanctions. Hence the reason for some of the banks overkill in relation to gambling transactions, particularly large cash transactions.
The primary reason that gamblers experience the problems highlighted by the original poster is precisely because banks are obliged to give a toss where there is reason to suspect an account may be, or is being, used in relation to criminal activities such as drug dealing or money laundering.
If it were perceived by the authorities that a particular bank was failing in their obligations in this area, it could face very serious sanctions. Hence the reason for some of the banks overkill in relation to gambling transactions, particularly large cash transactions.
in the light of the post above it seems odd that my bank has never worried about the large number of deposits to my acct from betfair but when i made one debit card payment in to betdakkk (of about a tenth the size of each incoming payment from betfair) it took numerous phone calls, fraud monitoring teams and the like to shift a few hundred quid.
charlatan,
That's an entirely separate issue. The fraud prevention you refer to is their to protect customers and ultimately prevent claims against the banks.
Unfortunately for gamblers, the fraud prevention systems used by many banks will flag and often prevent funds being transferred to gambling site(s) you haven't deposited to from your account previously.
That's an entirely separate issue. The fraud prevention you refer to is their to protect customers and ultimately prevent claims against the banks.
Unfortunately for gamblers, the fraud prevention systems used by many banks will flag and often prevent funds being transferred to gambling site(s) you haven't deposited to from your account previously.
nothing makes sense when you analyse it ,but people have jobs , no.. 'careers' these days and have to do something -we can't all sit about gambling .It just wouldn't look right ! .... so we have to pretend to be busy - whether it be commuting ,answering questions or buying gas from a telephone company .
By the way , my bank are OK about gambling ,but they did shut down my overdraft pretty pronto when they saw a few betting firms
Banks of all people frowning upon gambling has always made me laugh though [smiley:crazy]
By the way , my bank are OK about gambling ,but they did shut down my overdraft pretty pronto when they saw a few betting firms
Banks of all people frowning upon gambling has always made me laugh though [smiley:crazy]
I'm surprised they'd shut an account in credit - are you overdrawn? Remove andoverdraft facility perhaps, you can see why they'd do that.
Yes taking a deposit off a card to a gambling firm (especially the first withdrawl to one) is likely to raise an eyebrow as it's there are obvious risks with this, I've no problem with fact I've had to speak to someone to confirm it was kosher. But if my bank tried to close my account I'd be pretty angry. In fact I'd probably close it myself as on principle, and recommend nobody use them.
Yes taking a deposit off a card to a gambling firm (especially the first withdrawl to one) is likely to raise an eyebrow as it's there are obvious risks with this, I've no problem with fact I've had to speak to someone to confirm it was kosher. But if my bank tried to close my account I'd be pretty angry. In fact I'd probably close it myself as on principle, and recommend nobody use them.
Thanks for all of the replies so far - very helpful, but keen to get more if people have views and insights.
In reply to Just Checking's question, no I haven't been overdrawn for years. The balance in my account goes up and down a lot esp. before and after major events like Cheltenham and Golf Majors where I tend to invest all of my funds for a few days.
In reply to Just Checking's question, no I haven't been overdrawn for years. The balance in my account goes up and down a lot esp. before and after major events like Cheltenham and Golf Majors where I tend to invest all of my funds for a few days.
Unfortunately for gamblers, the fraud prevention systems used by many banks will flag and often prevent funds being transferred to gambling site(s) you haven't deposited to from your account previously.
except i had transferred a very similar amount from the same bank acct years earlier (with no question asked) and had a payment in the opposite direction only a few months before the dak deposit in question. it seems they are much more concerned about their own losses than catching out money launderers (my lifetime withdrawals from betting accts to the bank (always used the same bank acct) are over 100 times higher than my lifetime deposits).
in my experience (beyond betting) they always care a lot more about checking money leaving their account than money coming in. and i gather with bookies it's much the same....
except i had transferred a very similar amount from the same bank acct years earlier (with no question asked) and had a payment in the opposite direction only a few months before the dak deposit in question. it seems they are much more concerned about their own losses than catching out money launderers (my lifetime withdrawals from betting accts to the bank (always used the same bank acct) are over 100 times higher than my lifetime deposits).
in my experience (beyond betting) they always care a lot more about checking money leaving their account than money coming in. and i gather with bookies it's much the same....
Natwest closed me without explanation - and refused to discuss it
HSBC - said in advance and in writing that betting was fine, then 'closed' me - well said I could not longer deposit
Barclays have been good, but recently a few questions - but think they are OK
HSBC - said in advance and in writing that betting was fine, then 'closed' me - well said I could not longer deposit
Barclays have been good, but recently a few questions - but think they are OK
charlatan,
I won't pretend to know exactly how the systems operate but I would speculate that at the time of your original deposit into bdq the automated fraud prevention system may not have been operational.
It's also possible that the original transaction may have been too far back for the fraud prevention system to take into account when assessing the legitimacy of your more recent transaction into bdq (I have no idea whether such systems take account of withdrawals from such merchants).
I would agree that bank policies are based entirely on their own interests but, for the reason given above, they do take potential money laundering and other such issues very seriously.
I won't pretend to know exactly how the systems operate but I would speculate that at the time of your original deposit into bdq the automated fraud prevention system may not have been operational.
It's also possible that the original transaction may have been too far back for the fraud prevention system to take into account when assessing the legitimacy of your more recent transaction into bdq (I have no idea whether such systems take account of withdrawals from such merchants).
I would agree that bank policies are based entirely on their own interests but, for the reason given above, they do take potential money laundering and other such issues very seriously.
I've had questions asked of me by LLoyds/TSB but there's never been any mention of not allowing betting transactions. It's not funny being treated with suspicion by the biggest crooks on the planet though.
not once been asked anything by RBS, gave me a mortgage and two other loans, extended overdraft and upped credit card limits when asked..
probably why their skint
probably why their skint
i was with hsbc and they gave me warning and closed my A/C.. no such problems with natwest
TBH I've thought about this, I would just close it on principle. Why continue giving custom to ****ers?
If there was a RISK to them I could see their point. Remove your chequebook and overdraft factility they could perhaps justify to protect themselves. But why close it completely, is it some puritanical bull? Scroo em.
If there was a RISK to them I could see their point. Remove your chequebook and overdraft factility they could perhaps justify to protect themselves. But why close it completely, is it some puritanical bull? Scroo em.
I will close the account and they will lose out but it is going to be a pain opening a new account with all of the paperwork involved and then transferring about 20 direct debits, never mind all of the betting companies who have my card logged. It is such a waste of time just because they have made this stupid judgement when they probably have 5,000 drug dealers on their books!
When I opened a new bank account a few years back I seem to remember they had some system in place to transfer the DDs for you.
Nat West account well in credit not O/D, but couple of questions
about some transactions, "Is this a gambling site ?"
then a look of disapproaval or displeasure from the woman behind desk,
everything was ok nothing has happened, but really didn't like her concentrated look of disapproval, (unclean).
about some transactions, "Is this a gambling site ?"
then a look of disapproaval or displeasure from the woman behind desk,
everything was ok nothing has happened, but really didn't like her concentrated look of disapproval, (unclean).
direct debit switching is provided by most banks nowadays.. no need for paperwork
Cahoot and Smile seem ok with betting in my 10 years plus with them BUT you will get numerous blocks on the debit card every year by the fraud team. They seem to not be able to distinguish a profile of the customer at all. Expect at least 3 times a year where you'll have to call to get it unblocked. Has been a pain for me as missed some prices because of it but only takes 30 mins or so IF they are open at the time.
Moneybookers is a good alternative as they won't block any transactions BUT downside is your money goes down the pan if they go t1ts up. Much quicker for withdrawls also.
Moneybookers is a good alternative as they won't block any transactions BUT downside is your money goes down the pan if they go t1ts up. Much quicker for withdrawls also.
If you guys are that bothered ,why not open an account with a different bank to your mortagege , d/d's etc ,and if the new bank close you down then simply open another .
You're allowed more than one bank
You're allowed more than one bank
On the subject of fraud and gambling can anyone name the finacial service provider type of business that looks after the most money for the worlds public that then has historically mislead the public and overlent to the wrong people, overpaid there top staff, gambled the assets on many useless and dangerous ventures?
Yes THE BANKS how dare they take the piss out of other gamblers[>o]
Yes THE BANKS how dare they take the piss out of other gamblers[>o]
Greatest money laudering operation ever has pulled off by the worlds top banks a few years ago
concerning the well known credit cruch con, heres how it works
1...set up a bank
2...get access to percieved un-limited amounts of money to borrow
3...Lend as much out to anyone wehter they can affors to pay it back or not
4...give them PPI that they dont need to net more loot and give you the boss fat juicy wages and bonuses.
5...carry on till the banks lenders get wise and stoip lending to the now inept bank
6...go begging to the goverments on the basis you vcan blackmail all the customers by crashing the bank.
7...Get more loot given in the form of a bail out
8...Give yourself even more bonuses and wage rises with the new money gaind from the taxes of your customers.
9...Con the goverments,customers and original lenders that you have gone striaght by tightening up and picking on select groupd of customers that please anti-laundering or poor customers.
There you have it, finally get out in a few years, by a fast car and a villa in spain, cushty
concerning the well known credit cruch con, heres how it works
1...set up a bank
2...get access to percieved un-limited amounts of money to borrow
3...Lend as much out to anyone wehter they can affors to pay it back or not
4...give them PPI that they dont need to net more loot and give you the boss fat juicy wages and bonuses.
5...carry on till the banks lenders get wise and stoip lending to the now inept bank
6...go begging to the goverments on the basis you vcan blackmail all the customers by crashing the bank.
7...Get more loot given in the form of a bail out
8...Give yourself even more bonuses and wage rises with the new money gaind from the taxes of your customers.
9...Con the goverments,customers and original lenders that you have gone striaght by tightening up and picking on select groupd of customers that please anti-laundering or poor customers.
There you have it, finally get out in a few years, by a fast car and a villa in spain, cushty
With regards to opening a new bank account, cross Barclays right of your short list. Complete and utter mickey mouses! Barclays now has a branch within walking distance to me so thought I'd switch accounts which would save a drive every time I need to go to the bank. Opened account online and everything seemed to be ok. Received a letter asking me to visit local branch to confirm ID and account would be opened, all very standard so was happy to oblige.
Visited local brand only to be told that I need to see a personal banker, but he only works part time so will have to make an appointment and come back. He only works until 1:30 so I will have to come before then AND the process will take 45mins, or I could try another, large branch. Already a bad start but went straight to the next, larger branch to get it done and dusted.
Spoke to person on counter who advised she just needs to take photo copy of driving licence and then account would be opened. Great I thought, but then she came back and advise there is small problem so would need second ID. No problem I said as I have my passport with me. Great she said, just take a photo copy of this and I will open your account. Came back to me and asked....
Silly Barclays Women "Do you already have a bank account with Barclays?
Bemused Me "Er no!
SBW "Ah that will be the problem then. See if you already had an account with Barclays, then you could open an account online with out a problem. As you don't already hold an account with us, you will need to book an appointment, come back and we will open account for you. It will take 45min to an hour".
I booked appointment but of course didn't turn up.
Total jokers! I've never been refused bank account, credit card or credit in general, still have great credit rating so there is no reason for these jokers to having me jumping through hoops trying to open a standard current account.
Avoid Avoid Avoid!
Visited local brand only to be told that I need to see a personal banker, but he only works part time so will have to make an appointment and come back. He only works until 1:30 so I will have to come before then AND the process will take 45mins, or I could try another, large branch. Already a bad start but went straight to the next, larger branch to get it done and dusted.
Spoke to person on counter who advised she just needs to take photo copy of driving licence and then account would be opened. Great I thought, but then she came back and advise there is small problem so would need second ID. No problem I said as I have my passport with me. Great she said, just take a photo copy of this and I will open your account. Came back to me and asked....
Silly Barclays Women "Do you already have a bank account with Barclays?
Bemused Me "Er no!
SBW "Ah that will be the problem then. See if you already had an account with Barclays, then you could open an account online with out a problem. As you don't already hold an account with us, you will need to book an appointment, come back and we will open account for you. It will take 45min to an hour".
I booked appointment but of course didn't turn up.
Total jokers! I've never been refused bank account, credit card or credit in general, still have great credit rating so there is no reason for these jokers to having me jumping through hoops trying to open a standard current account.
Avoid Avoid Avoid!
@racingguru - I'm too a long time cahoot customer. Used to be great but wouldn't recommend now day. Problem I have is actually paying money INTO the account?! How do you do this racingguru? Only way I know of is via postal office, which used to be fine but every now and then (& literately last 5 deposits) money gets 'lost'. Down to the person at post counter not having a clue I suspect and so processes transaction all wrong (they always look at me clueless when I say 'cahoot'), then I have to weeks while cahoot investigate and trace.
I've explained problem countless times but they are not interested. Advise they need to set something up so we can pay in via Santander, but again not interested.
I've explained problem countless times but they are not interested. Advise they need to set something up so we can pay in via Santander, but again not interested.
Good post jackhulk, did you know that now statistically its easier to hold a bank up than it is to
open a new account, only if you get caught unless you can blackmail milions of people and your goverment like the banks can you will get banged up.
open a new account, only if you get caught unless you can blackmail milions of people and your goverment like the banks can you will get banged up.
Too true! However, I was thinking to myself just the other day, whatever happened to a good old fashion bank robberies? Last classic was the attempted Dome diamond heist.
Jackhulk - i only use cahoot for betting so all deposits are direct to my card or cheques which they haven't lost yet!
They didn't accept cash last time I asked at the post office. Moneybookers is way better for betting especially if you are not a big punter. Big issue for moneybookers is they only cover 1000 quid if they go belly up. A bit frightening but so much easier than banks.
They didn't accept cash last time I asked at the post office. Moneybookers is way better for betting especially if you are not a big punter. Big issue for moneybookers is they only cover 1000 quid if they go belly up. A bit frightening but so much easier than banks.
I have been with nationwide for about 14 years, the last 4 of which I've had no salary going in.
I make irregular but frequent withdrawals from Betfair of varying sizes. Never deposit, well, not for a good while anyway.
One of the managers said to me once that if they suspected I was running a business from the account they would close me down but that was years ago now and I've heard nothing since. Bizarrely, I can't get a nationwide credit card, even though my current account usually has a 5 figure balance I fail the credit check. Lol.
Tried to open an hsbc premier account a while ago but the wanted too much info. I'm sure if I'd continued the process they would have sent Gillian mckeith round to examine my stools.
I make irregular but frequent withdrawals from Betfair of varying sizes. Never deposit, well, not for a good while anyway.
One of the managers said to me once that if they suspected I was running a business from the account they would close me down but that was years ago now and I've heard nothing since. Bizarrely, I can't get a nationwide credit card, even though my current account usually has a 5 figure balance I fail the credit check. Lol.
Tried to open an hsbc premier account a while ago but the wanted too much info. I'm sure if I'd continued the process they would have sent Gillian mckeith round to examine my stools.
Thanks for the further helpful replies.
For those of you familiar with opening a new account (I haven't had to do it for years), do they ask for a bank statement from your current bank or take a reference from another bank?
For those of you familiar with opening a new account (I haven't had to do it for years), do they ask for a bank statement from your current bank or take a reference from another bank?
Also, does anyone have any views or experience with Santander? I use it as my business bank so it would make some sense in using the same bank - at least they would see that I have another source of income and that I wasn't using my personal account to operate a business.
I had trouble with hsbc also. So I opened a couple of basic bank accounts. One was with the Co-Op everything done on the phone (just need to be on electoral roll). No problems at all but it is a basic account, you get a visa debit card but no overdraft, no cheque book. Direct Debits and Standing Orders are fine though.
No previous bank statements were required or anything else, all done on the phone. I told them I had/have other bsnk accounts too. I just use this for betfair etc now and have no problems.
Link to it below if it helps
...
http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206368595,CFSweb/Page/Bank-CurrentAccounts
No previous bank statements were required or anything else, all done on the phone. I told them I had/have other bsnk accounts too. I just use this for betfair etc now and have no problems.
Link to it below if it helps
...
http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206368595,CFSweb/Page/Bank-CurrentAccounts
If the current policy of professional gamblers not required to pay tax for obvious many reasons then why cant bettors buy into gambling sites services without eyebrows being raised or is it the old british dogma of thinking everyone with more money than you is a criminal, dear lord.
oops above is wrong link, sorry, correct one below
...
http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206368743,CFSweb/Page/Bank-CurrentAccounts?WT.svl=copy
they do keep asking me if I want to upgrade it but I'm happy with that as it is...
...
http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206368743,CFSweb/Page/Bank-CurrentAccounts?WT.svl=copy
they do keep asking me if I want to upgrade it but I'm happy with that as it is...
How transparent are banks money making activites now they have to be nannied by goverments because they have been very naughty boys and girls.
How transparent are banks money making activites now they have to be nannied by goverments because they have been very naughty boys and girls.
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