Collaboration experiment for long term profit. Invites and details inside.

so i do all the work in my field,then just sign up and give it away?

I'm opening an account as we speak.

Well there's some logic to it.  But how are you going to get members to prove that they have a 'good track record and disciplined style'.  And are you going to have to prove these things yourself? (Your post on the Adrian Massey issue makes me think you probably don't have extensive knowledge of horse racing.)

seems like bernie madoff has got hold of a computer in jail.

Sounds a bit like a unknown fried chicken shop inviting kfc to sign up with them if they can show them there business records and whats in there secret recipe, the deal doesn't sound finger licking good to anyone concerned.

chickens are happy to lay and let anyone take there eggs,even golden ones.

First I'll answer LordBobbin. I was simply asking a question about where Adrian Massey got his stats from, and I got my answer. That's fair enough isn't it?

My skills do not lie in picking the correct horse - I leave that to people who know better than me. That doesn't mean I can't have a meaningful contribution to the way people sports trade. My skills in both my professional life, and now here in sports trading, are in facilitating collaboration to produce exceptional results.

Finally onto the idea that this is simply 'giving away' your work. It's not - you're creating something new. Lets look at Wikipedia; the people who contribute are creating something which is greater than the sum of their own parts. They're creating something truly special, and by being a part of an 'open source' culture, everyone can benefit.

Another example is Ubuntu - an operating system that is better than Windows which has been built through mass collaboration. Everyone working on the project has benefited in one way or another.

So how would someone researching their own field benefit here? Well, say you specialised in horse trading, and you provided a good insight and selections in horse trading, other people will improve your selections through voting. Secondly, someone else who is exceptionally good at trading on tennis provides their selections, and in exchange they get to increase their turnover by using horse trading selections too. Everyone gets to increase their turnover.

As for getting people to demonstate a good track record, well, in a sense all they would need to do is provide a one month history of their betfair trading account. If I'm totally honest, I'm not sure this is neccessary, but I know from experience that say we let anyone join, for the first few months (maybe six to 18) we might create a great service. But as more and more people join and want to use the tips, the services intelligence will be dilluted as 'the zombies' join.

There's a balance to be struck between being a closed community and an open one.

I'm very confident this can work if people being to view in a new way. It is not just 'giving away' your work, because if you take part, and others take part, everyone benefits.

I will say LordBobbin, that I can demonstrate that my system does work and I can have a meaningful contribution in providing horse lay selections. I just want to see if I can facilitate a new way for sports traders to work together, rather than against each other.

Betfair in itself was a revolution in wikinomics. The whole reason we're here talking to each other on betfair.com is because people managed to see sports trading in a new way; a model of peer to peer trading. If the same change in thought can occur in the way people play against the market, then we can achieve something special.

So you are looking for a subset of ALL Betfair players to work together to be better than they are alone.

Presume you dont think this subset will be smarter/more accurate than the whole set?

Well you are having to give away your work Philly. The majority of races I have no idea on. However, there are a few angles that I can recognise again and again in certain races. If I restrict myself purely to those races where I know the angles are strong, I can make money. (If not, I'll generally lose over a number of bets.)   Am I really to outline those angles to other people in the group so that they can go and away and try and add those elements of my work to their betting? 

And if I'm deliberately vague, so that people don't really know what I'm talking about, the chances are they won't be able to make a proper decision in any case. After all, the value in any bet I might choose to make relies on the fact that most people haven't noticed what I've noticed. So why should somebody else giving that race a peremptory glance be able to come up with a better pick then me when I've specifically chosen the race because I know that there's a strong angle there to be played?

And while I'm partially open to the concept of the wisdom of crowds when it comes to picking one from a list, there's still part of me that's sceptical. Should tennis people really be voting on horse races and vice versa?   And wouldn't it come down to who can write the most persuasive argument rather than who produces the most well-informed argument?

You're also missing out one other important factor. To really let the wisdom of crowds take effect, you've got to have a lot of people taking part. And that would amount to a lot of people placing the same bet. Wikipedia, Ubuntu etc. were strengthened by having large numbers of people working together. But you have a hundred or more Betfairers voting and then putting their money into the market, and liquidity is going to prove a severe problem.

Has Odwyer signed up yet?

The Magician's concise reply exposes the flaw in this concept you propose, which is that the "wisdom of crowds" is better expressed through the BF market than through a sub-set of the BF players.

That is not to say that putting a group together is not worth pursuing but my experience is that BF players are individuals and not group oriented and inherently resistant to sharing knowhow and sceptical regarding the returns.

Ideally, you would want to find a small group focusing on one sport, say horseracing, who have exceptional skills in the key areas of form analysis, sectional time analysis, breeding, paddock judges, bookmaker contacts, computer systems etc.

With respect, your all-too-honest comment My skills do not lie in picking the correct horse - I leave that to people who know better than me. does not inspire confidence that you would be the right person to organise such a team.