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Betfair "pleased" with Premium charge
Betfair "pleased" with Premium charge
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George Osbourne has announced his intention to "look seriously" at the 50% tax charge on earnings over £150k as studies are now telling him this burden is possibly counter productive.
People are juggling their packages to include shares/pension payments etc.. to keep under the radar and more worryingly high earners(is 150k high these days?)are thought to be considering moving abroad to enhance their earnings. I think this PC charge will,after time,generate similar views and possibly a rethink BUT the problem BF may have is how much market share have they lost in the process AND will those deserters come back???? |
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To those of you that thought the premium charge was to help the ecosystem and replenish losers, read on:
----------------- " Betfair shareholder concerns prompt warning Eric Bianchi September 9, 2011 Alarm bells were already ringing in the distance when Betfair released its first annual report since floating on the stock exchange in October of last year. That was before you delved into the report and found out that certain high-ranking members of staff had been awarded bonuses under the controversial “senior executives incentive plan” or SEIP. It meant that the pay of David Yu rose 125% to £824,676 whereas Stephen Morana’s went up to £1.6m or a rise of 445%. The Association of British Insurers (ABI) are worried enough by this they published an “amber-top” alert to shareholders in the company. It was issued due to the group’s long term incentive plan (LTIP) not defining the targets that executives at the firm will need to reach. Ari Last, spokesperson for Betfair, told us, “The company is still in discussions with the ABI. This is still a draft recommendation.” It comes after the company’s latest trading update showed that revenues are decreasing whilst at the same time the company’s mobile product is showing strong signs of growth in one part of the gaming industry that doesn’t look like slowing. The fact that the wheels are in motion at all just goes to show one of a plethora of problems that arise when you go public. Apart from the restrictions placed on the company as far as growth into new markets are concerned you are also always at the mercy of your shareholders. This illustrates this point as the worries of shareholders at the 46% loss in value of the share price since October seems to be one of the primary reasons behind the ABI issuing the alert. " http://calvinayre.com/2011/09/09/business/betfair-shareholder-concerns-prompt-warning/ |
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If you earn 150K you don't pay 50% on any part of it. If you earn 160K you pay 50% on 10K of it. If they reduced it to 40% someone on 160K would save £20 a week (maybe they'll use it to take on a shoe shine boy). I must say I'm really word about Fred the Shred and his ilk moving abroad. They must be queuing up to take on these guessers who've brought the world economy to its knees. If any of them care to contact me I'll pay their fare.
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Its not worth answering that point as most customers are now fully aware that BF
are trying to capture as much percent of every gbp of revenue placed into accounts to offset there in-efficient spending on maintenance and growth and how do you replace customers or encourage share buying when too many alarms bells are now ringing? The underlined points are arbitrary. The point I make is not, it is fact. |
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The point you make is anything but fact. Anyone who has made a 'decent amount of money' at a quick rate will be on 20% instead of 5% for a kick off. In fact the only person who wins every bet and is still on 5% is the punter on their Betchecker software- a case for the ASA if ever I saw one.
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all fun bets are elsewhere cos i dont want even money shots on here any more even the 20 to 1 on the golf becomes 10 to 1
trillions now must have think of that 7% downfall becomes too mind numbing much is now elsewhere |
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He/she may now be on 20% but for long enough were on 5%, that
is a fact. BF have tested the water with the 20% and something like 60% was alwas on the cards, and I said at the time the PC was introduced, with the predictable uproar that it would increase. As things were, BF doesn't want these PC payers, but now know the have no where else to go, hence the 60%. Now instead of getting 5 from ever 100, they are getting 60 against 40, but the still have to replace the money that is seeping away. What I don't understand is why non PC payers are on the side of the payers. Have they wild dreams that they will eventually join them ? lol |
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only 0.71 made 15k or more and that was in the year 2004
i think that right as above posts is so confusing with the numbers |
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'He/she may now be on 20% but for long enough were on 5%'
PC1 was calculated so that you will have paid 20% of your lifetime, therefore any period of 5% is ultimately rendered redundant as they level it out at the 20% threshold anyway. 'Now instead of getting 5 from ever 100, they are getting 60 against 40, but the still have to replace the money that is seeping away.' And what exactly are they doing on this front? What quantifiable change has there been in this respect in the PC1 and now PC2 periods? |
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the TRUTH is betfair are exploiting there position in the market.
and if they had any competition they would not dare bring in the PC when the market changes in the coming yrs betUNfair will fade fast !!! |
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Alarm bells were already ringing in the distance when Betfair released its first annual report since floating on the stock exchange in October of last year. That was before you delved into the report and found out that certain high-ranking members of staff had been awarded bonuses under the controversial “senior executives incentive plan” or SEIP. It meant that the pay of David Yu rose 125% to £824,676 whereas Stephen Morana’s went up to £1.6m or a rise of 445%.
................................................... That's some pay rise considering the value of the company has almost halved since they went public. |
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I think they've run out of ideas. They've gone as far as they can in every direction with the possible exception of mobile betting. They only have one real place to go and that's inwards. For PC2 to be dressed up as some kind of Robin Hood tax is laughable. It is part of their quest to get more than 72p out of every pound that enters the site. At the end of the summer I was talking to a BF employee about moving some money into my account, he said 'We'd like the chance to win that back off you.' At least he was honest about it!
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I'd be concerned if I was an investor that the Chief Executive is performing verbal cartwheels over the "cash out" facility and "betfair ambassadors" on the basis that it will improve the returns of losing customers.
I think the cash out facility is a good common sense innovation but what it definitely doesnt do is improve the return of casual punters. I was completely staggered that he appeared to think it did.  Has he ever gambled in his life? |
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If they want to slow people down they should say max 10% bank on any one bet, kind of like FL poker. The reckless 'fun' gambler losing everything in one bet is a killer for the exchange model. You could argue that diffusing the recreational player bets as much as possible is as equally important as what you do with winners, maybe even more so.
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The only unique selling point Betfair has now is it's in-play offering.
If a competitor infiltrates this area of their business they're screwed, and for my money that time will come. |
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With such an inept company according to most of the
postings on here, how come the purple site haven't made significant inroads ? |
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I've been a member at the other place for years. This week I've seen 1/2 million matched on a 4th round men's tennis match. Although peanuts compared to this place, it's a massive increase to what they're used to. Momentum is hard to stop once it gets going.
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Ive noticed a massive increase on US racing this week at the purple palace
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If it's making up ground no one would be more
pleased than me, but it must be very, very, gradual, cause I have not been aware of it. |
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They need to have pretty much identical markets, at present the variety is limited which is a problem. I suspect they were caught by surprise and have been inundated with requests for new markets they weren't ready to offer which isn't going to help.
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With such an inept company according to most of the
postings on here, how come the purple site haven't made significant inroads ? look like more money is bet at purple on rubgy world cup then betafir...this is nuts, to say this 6 weeks ago , would have been lol at....purple had almost zero money bet on tennis, and now it has something, in just 6 weeks |
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I think the cash out facility is a good common sense innovation but what it definitely doesnt do is improve the return of casual punters. I was completely staggered that he appeared to think it did. Has he ever gambled in his life?
Betfair may just take more commission from some users but others will change the way they play to the benefit of the casual punter. Others may move elsewhere. This will also benefit the casual punter provided prices remain competitive. It also benefits the people who have lifetime commission rates of 40% plus as it increases sustainability. The only people it doesn't benefit are some of those caught in the net. I say some because I will get caught somepoint soonish but see the system as probably advantageous to me in the long run. Will purple benefit? I suspect not, they are hardly clamouring to sign up all the disgruntled pc layers are they? Why not? |
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*layers
Also first para is quoted from clydebanks post above. Pesky phone... |
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Will purple benefit? I suspect not, they are hardly clamouring to sign up all the disgruntled pc layers are they? Why not?
 there turnover 10 times what it was before PC and as other post have said..betfair keep getting record profit from there sports exchange each year, but some how betfair can't feed the ecosystem (betfair new donkey word) from all the PC accounts |
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10 times ? On what markets ?
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Who wants to increase their turnover by 10 times with unprofitable business?
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tennis is 100 times
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Or even 100 times :p
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Who wants to increase their turnover by 10 times with unprofitable business?
when betfair first started...there was only Pro on betfair....betfair went from zero to 600 million...it bullsh!t that it not profitable, it just betfair wants to make more percent, and betfair see there italy sprtsbook making margin of 9% and think, why share the mugs money with the pro, we (betfair) can keep all of it |
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nairda, would you like BF to weaken ? What benefit would
that be to you or I ? |
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nairda is the bitterest of the bunch.
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Kenilworth the 60% premium charge has alienated customers. Once very loyal. They have in effect had their accounts closed for life. So its no surprise that people who once would have jumped off a cliff to defend Betfair now feel a lot less loyal than you.
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Surely by definition the customers who are leaving And complaining are not loyal.
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Only if your idea of loyalty tallies with that of something like the regime in Pyongyang.
You clearly think 60% is fair, which is fine, you're allowed a view, but the obvious question would be what level of charge would you say is unfair? Because if you are a gambler on here, there will be a point or a system where even you think it's not worth it, so what would that level be for you? |
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When I start losing. I'm not saying you're wrong in thinking it's unfair just that the idea that someone can be loyal and then not is not loyal is paradoxical.
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A rational punter will place his bet where he can get the best terms and for many people, this is no longer bf.
But (other than in a few cases of market-makers on quiet markets, who shd get some kind of sweetener) bf does not need these people's custom. Imv the company will either make a paradigm-shifting breakthrough internationally, prob. in Asia, or be overhauled by rivals offering the same product it did initially. |
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Of course loyalty can change. You might be married, then start getting battered, your loyalty will diminish then. You might be with a bank and be happy with them at first, then they change your overdraft charges then you are less loyal and committed to them and prepared to go elsewhere.
I think what people are trying to get across is that there was a time they imagined Betfair would be the only company they would ever bet with. I don't think that's the case now, and people have been generally nonplussed with many aspects of Betfair outwith PC2 for a while. The emotional connection for many has gone for many reasons, not just PC2. There is also extensive psychological research that shows how if there's something/one you like, then you fall out with them, you dislike them more than people you just ordinarily disliked. It also goes the other way, if there's something you initially hated, but then go on to like, you like it more than an entity you originally liked. |
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Point well made and taken inner, although I question how many would have stayed with Betfair had a better option presented itself.
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I think there's certainly some truth in that, but that calculation isn't always purely financial. If we look at mundane examples such as banking, utility supplies, many of us persist with suppliers who economically aren't the best option because we have other positive associations such as previous good service, a better the devil you know mentality or we want to avoid an inconvenience (that in reality is typically worth less than the saving we would make). One of the things many people used to say on here was that they only had a Betfair account because it offered every market and was more often than not the best price, so economically they may have been better off elsewhere half the time yet still they used here. It's probably a mix of loyalty, convenience and not wanting several accounts open etc, but the decision for customers is rarely 100% financial.
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Agree completely.
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