£10,000 betting pool, need a monthly return !

50 % a month is almost impossible to make steadily, so I would strongly advice you against trying.

It's very possible but so is splitting atoms, you just have to know how to do it.

if you could make 50 percent a week and didn't take any out ... after 6 months you'd be the richest man in the WORLD !

my advice would not be worrying taking out the 5000 a month  and wait 6 months [:p]

ps as of the pc charge ud need around 7500 as bet unfair would take roughly 50 percent

so you need 7500 a month not 5000 to make it

5k a month living expenses? where do you live Sandbanks?

Two or three kids a wife and a mortgage means you need around 5k a month for an average standard of living.

Whatever Buzzer

To the original question, it's possible but you should know the answer yourself due to how you've performed over the previous years you've been on here and how liquid the markets are you operate in. Only you know the answer and if you're asking the question I doubt you'd manage it.

What do you mean whatever?
5k a month with a family to support and a mortgage is almost a minimum requirement if you actually want a life for yourself and your family.
I know many get by on less but from what the poster has said this amount is what he needs, monthly, to get by. I have no mortgage now but, with three children at home, I still need that to keep up a fairly average standard of living.

good answer buzzer !

i think its from near impossible to impossible.   if you had to make sure of 5k a week .. 7.5k inc pc

like buzzer said if your asking you won't have a clue an are quite away from being even close

buzzer, I am referring to your comment £5k is needed to give an average standard of living, this is completely wrong, £5k per month would give a higher than average standard of living.

You should tell him to leave his wife, sell his house, have his children adopted and move into a bedsit then but he'll probably still need a couple of k a month if he wants a half decent car and holidays and a bit of socialising.
To me if he needs 5k a month to look after his family he probably has a mortgage of 100k plus, a couple of children takes a holiday or two abroard a year and has/had a job paying 80kish a year, so to maintain HIS current average standard of living he requires 5k a month.

I am not referring to his post, just your comment that £5k per month is required to give an average standard of living. This is baloney.

from the way the question is framed, the OP sounds like he has little or no experience on here.

in which case putting in 10K and trying to make 5K a month off it is doomed to failure, imo.

So average living with a family these days is from a salary of 60K, and that's take home, forget tax.

lol

If you're trading, then £10k is easily enough to make that sort of amount. The problem, as GetOnMassive suggests, is that it is not something that you can just start doing without any experience or specialist knowledge. (Although in the early days of Betfair, trading some of the markets on here was child's play).

By the way, re. Buzzer's comments, I live in C. London with a girlfriend and 2 kids, and find it hard to get by on less than about £5k a month.

No, the poster says he requires 5k a month to support his family so he needs 60k a year to maintain his current average standard of living, he can't drop below that else something will have to give and he will probably have to move house, stop his children doing their current activities or whatever else this money dictates. I require around that amount per month, with no mortgage, to maintain current standards of living and wouldn't want to drop below if at all possible.
The OP is asking if he can maintain his current standard of living through gambling, so risking his current lifestyle and his current earnings.

Well I suppose your geographical location plays a big part.

If you need to ask the question you dont have the expertise to do it in my opinion but apologies if you have a greater game plan than I realise :/

early bet fair days was childs play for sure .. boy do i miss those days!  an there was no pc charge!

early days were great:) when you could bet on races after they had been ran and half the people didnt realise;)

brazilan matches when first started ... awesome ... ref blows final  whistle markets don't suspend and 1.29 to take  for 1000s on unders  ... always wondered how long that would last

Not so good when the site used to go down for the majority and only "certain people" were able to trade and clean up, I never got to know how to join that club :(

buzzer   


What do you mean whatever?
5k a month with a family to support and a mortgage is almost a minimum requirement if you actually want a life for yourself and your family.
I know many get by on less but from what the poster has said this amount is what he needs, monthly, to get by. I have no mortgage now but, with three children at home, I still need that to keep up a fairly average standard of living.

99% of family probably live on under £3k a mth max...your in cuckoo land dc.

5k ... you wanna save 1000 a month  for later years
2k mortgage get you a roughly say 300k house ..
  living general etc 500 a week

you can see you have a cushty life with that ...

2k these days is bread line ... your not gonna save much for a really nice car an have  a nice house with a large mortgage

unfortunately thats where most people live

The answer is that it's almost impossible from a standing start.

It may be poss., and even poss. for you, if 1) you put in a long apprenticeship of finding some strategies that work for you; 2) you grow your bank from the current 10k slowly, betting selectively and supposing you will make no more than 2-3% per bet (the percentage actually varies widely depending on how selective you are, how often you bet and the variance of yr returns), and 3) you spend every hour God sends in front of a betfair and an odds aggregator screen.

I have never consistently made as much betting as you hope to, and my bank is very much greater than 10k. I do it part-time pseudo-recreationally, in part because I know I can make more money per hour in my non-betting career.

It is easier to make money in any job I can think of than by betting. The explanation is that a lot of the returns of the job are leveraged out of personal and corporate relationships; there are no relationships in betting (you are doing it on their own) or they have negative value (the bookmakers are your antagonists and they tolerate you because they think you are worth something to them, not the other way round).

Thus the return you get on your labour power benefits from no synergy effects with anything else at all.

Mccarthy007 : Is it possible to make 5k a month from betting ?

The answer to the question is yes. If you're not currently making money though, and think you can step up to the table and make that amount per month without serious prior experience, I would guess your chances of success are 0.1% or less.

So tell us 007, why do you think you can make it here? You must have a plan? :)

Yes It is possible to make 5k monthly using 10k bank.

You need experience, discipline in staking, good bet selection, good strategy, good reader of market and sport to guess odds at any point (in-running).

Only if you do Inrunning. Based on my experience.

The odds of you or anyone else having all these qualities and able to do is 1 in 1000

of course its "possible"...better described as improbable though..

well the beauty of betfair is they promise its the best place to make a profit and if you become one of the one in ten thousand winners they will take the majority of your profit off you while they spend like there's no tomorrow, simplicity

no it is not possible with 10k, may be possible with £100k...

It is possible even with 1k not 10k like I did.

I started with 500 pounds to 1k in 2005 in betfair. I managed 6k per month average until 2006. From 2007 to 2011 I averaged 7k per month. I keep only 2k (may vary sometimes) most of the times and manage to make good profits using this amount. I do have some back up plan in losing streaks. I do lower stakes in losing times and up my stakes during winning times.

You need to find a strategy which works for you. I did 100% myself without any third party help or fast pictures help. There are changes in betting styles and sports that I play and the way that I play. These are market adoptations. You need to be more than one trick pony to survive long term.

I did try to up my stakes but it didn't work. Ideally you need to find what suits for you. You need to know your strengths and weakness. You need to be disciplined in bets selection and staking. You need to play only those sports where you got edge. 

I did try horses and found the effort is not worth and there are too many sharks. I love tennis and nowadays there are too many sharks and too few mugs - hard to make money. Basketball has contributed more than 50% initial days of betting and now it has died away. Football contributing 50 to 65% nowadays where courtsiders and fast pictures can't take you for a ride. In football you can develop good strategies to make good profit. Cricket is another game where fast pictures are not that important to make money and your judgement alone is enough to make profit.

I love sports and enjoy watching. I like maths and playing with numbers. I think these are the reasons for my success as I found my strenths and used them effectively to make money.

Betting a very low odds is never of interest to me, but I'd happily back 1.01 here that the OP cannot hope to make £5k per month.  Even £500 would be a huge challenge.

from a standing start, breaking even would be a challenge Vis.

completely agree

In my opinion, forget about looking to profit at the outset.

I liken it on here more to paying for a market education, much like getting a degree. If you are wise with your money, you can pay mostly with your time here, rather than cash because as others have mentioned, for the majority of people, you wont begin profitable.

It takes time to learn and you need to have plenty of falls before you can run. Those falls become the greatest gift and they dont need to cost you much financially.

The best thing you can do is learn the markets and learn about yourself and play with tiny sums of money.

Forget about financial targets for now, just look to learn how edges are created, test your ideas and most importantly, learn about yourself and your own strengths and weakness during the process.

If I was starting for the first time today, I would put no more than £200 in my account and have no trade bigger than £2. You can play with pennies using gruss, its all you need at the beginning.

The 10k can sit snugly in the bank, you do not need it to discover this place. In time, you can grow and by the time you are playing decent sums per trade, you will have a wealth of knowledge behind you, both about exchanges and also about your own psychological state of being.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do

Can be done IMO

Buzzer, I've a lot of time for your posts, I think you talk a lot more sense on here than most and give a lot of useful and informative stuff out normally. Your comment of needing £5k a month despite being mortgage free to keep up a 'fairly average standard of living' suggests you are wildly out of touch in your judgement of what constitutes 'average' in this context though.

also remember that companies dont keep promises if it pays them not too so just because one companie claims to be more fair than others it dosent mean they may not increasingly take more of your money

cant be done in my opinion. would say even a few hundred would be lucky.

Although in the early days of Betfair, trading some of the markets on here was child's play

what changed Contrarian?

2k a month in london is a **** life style ...

you wont be buying a nice car or a decent house

remember you got to save 40-50k for a deposit ... how long would that take on 2k a month when you got other bills ?

Before you get into this too much is anyone else a little suspicious or is it just me.

The original poster has not actually responded since his opening post. Also i just don't get the question, is he really going to read the responses and go "oh yes people say it can be done i'm going to go for it" or "oh no people say it's impossible I won't try".

I doubt that he has been on £90K a year, especially if you read his other posts he swears a lot and called a couple of people "****s". And before you get too carried away that needing £5K a month, last year he mentioned that he lived in a time zone 7 hours ahead of the uk.

You're probably right U.A., there's some good accurate posts on this thread though that will be useful to others.

Paulme, it definitely can be done with a 10k bank or less. What changed with regard to earlier markets is obvious isn't it?

Bf_fananatic, I think somebody has hacked your account :)

MrHunt
Date Joined: 15 Jul 11
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When: 28 Aug 11 14:36
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buzzer   


What do you mean whatever?
5k a month with a family to support and a mortgage is almost a minimum requirement if you actually want a life for yourself and your family.
I know many get by on less but from what the poster has said this amount is what he needs, monthly, to get by. I have no mortgage now but, with three children at home, I still need that to keep up a fairly average standard of living.

99% of family probably live on under £3k a mth max...your in cuckoo land dc.


You have to factor in that a 'low to average income' family with a couple of kids, will be a net receiver of benefits (they get more than they pay in taxes). This will generally be the case even if they have a £25k income.

Some people that work should remember that when complaining that they are paying taxes to keep people on benefits when they themselves are in fact net receivers of benefits [;)]

Average income for the bottom 20% of households was £4,800 in 2010. Adjusted for income tax and benefits it was £15,100.

That means that the poorest 20% of families have the equivalent of an average NET income of £15,100.

interesting how a thread about making a living from betting changes to a debate on the standard of living in the uk, lets remind ourselves that the tiger economy that other countries envy pays its workers 200 pound a month, its a mad world for sure.

Any decent trader would be making 10% per day.  But then bankroll means different things to different people.  Money management is also a huge factor.  Mentality probably the biggest factor of all.  And not to leave out the ever important risk factor.  Apart from that, there is also a limit on some markets on how much you can "invest".  All these factors differ greatly the more of your bankroll you use for each trade, and adding in the need to make that certainly doesn't help.
So yes, it is quite possible to do if only looking at the numbers.  Starting out, nearly impossible, and without knowing your risk tolerance, mental strength, trading ability, any answer other than "I don't like your chances" is impossible to give.

Even gambling you could make that sort of money.  But that would involve a great ability to recognise overs/unders. 

If you have a normal job the only advice is to play around part time and take the extra income on board, assuming you have an edge, which a very small percentage of players actually have.  But then, you have been around on BF for nearly 5 years, so I suspect you already know the answer...

bf_fananatic
30 Aug 11 03:17 Joined: 17 Jul 11 | Topic/replies: 1,098 | Blogger: bf_fananatic's blog
interesting how a thread about making a living from betting changes to a debate on the standard of living in the uk, lets remind ourselves that the tiger economy that other countries envy pays its workers 200 pound a month, its a mad world for sure.

Interesting indeed.  Shouldn't come into play.  He says he needs 5k per month out of this, that is all that matters, not what other people live off.

Ok BJT fair point but the ease at which traders using simple software and bookmakers hedging at betting on the information they have at there disposal through racing industry leaks(insider trading effectively) is what is screwing up betfair, bookmakers no this and thats why they do it, they have special pages for managers in each LBO warning of taking bets for certain runners, I know this from friens who owned bookmakers and each firm tries to place bets with rival bookmakers placing many bets and now they use betfair and daq to make a killing.

Its a shame you lot(customers) don't work out what is really going on all around you and then you might have a broader outlook.

Brother-in-law needs 15k per month to stand still.

Messy divorce...£3k per month plus school fees(3kids)..massive mortgage on country pile plus a Spanish gaff.

The median take-home salary (inc. bonuses) for someone in full-time work in 2009 was £25,900. This is the last year available for the ONS's analysis of pay trends.

Not counting overtime, this came out at £12.34 per hour.

Anyone w/ any professional kind of skill (a doctor, a lawyer, a finance 'professional') can expect to be making far more than that, provided their career is established. But what these people don't always see is how few professionals at the top of the pile there are.

The mean weekly pay for the top quartile was less than £700 and for the top decile well under a thousand (£971 in April 2009).

So a taxpayer needing £60k a year to maintain their current lifestyle wd even accounting for wage inflation & growth find themselves in the top 8-15% of the population.

This isn't to say that 60k is a large amount of money to live on relative to someone's standards and expectations--just that the vast majority don't live on it.

What changed with regard to earlier markets is obvious isn't it?

how you mean trev?

i just mean even with 10k anyone would struggle to make a few hundred every month.

I mean in the early days if trading was "child's play" it was never going to remain that way for long as more and more people discovered it and competed for the money.

Not everyone would struggle with 10k, most would yes, but some are regularly making over 5k per month with that size bank.

Go buy yourself a motorised hedgecutter and small van.  Call to every house with a hedge and offer to trim same at a competitive price.  You'll have money left over from  your £10k and if you have any energy left go painting houses. 
That's the way to make money McCarthy007 and it's been proved over and over.  Gambling dont pay. 

Good post from fullback. Very sensible....

agreed

Absolutely amazed at the negativity here especially the comments from Fullback suggesting gambling doesn't pay.It certainly won't if you adopt such a pessimistic attitude.

Thousands of punters here and on other exchanges make consistent profits because they adopt disciplined,business like controls and trade as soon as it's financially viable.

The others purely gamble and there lies the difference!

Mccarthy,go ahead and put your money in,it will prove to be a worthy investment providing you treat it as an investment and it will certainly provide you with a greater return than the high street banks.

gambling , trading whatever. if u can pick more winners than losers im sure that will help

i love the way this thread turned into a standard of living thread so much :)

Anyone know how this betting pool is now?

BS post,  only an idiot would think its possible to do that.

BS post,  only an idiot would think its possible to do that.

Maintaining the current standard of your living arguement is totally irrelevant.

Obviously, The Royal Family would need more money, to maintain their current standard of living than a homeless person, ( begging for loose change so that they could eat), would require.

Maintaing what you have in this current situation, is not even remotely the same as being entitled to it, in the first place.

I would advise changing your standard of living, try living in a tent, making coffee from acorns and learn too tickle trout....

although all the changes will be difficult the learning curve will be a thousand time easier than trying to make a living from gambling at the rate of success you desire in all honesty....

Striking how many of these sort of threads are started by an OP who never, ever , returns to the thread after the OP