General Betting
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new premium charge 60%
new premium charge 60%
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By: kenilworth
Date Joined: 04 Nov 05 Add contact | Send message When: 26 Aug 11 23:31 Joined: Date Joined: 04 Nov 05 | Topic/replies: 5,740 | Blogger: kenilworth's blog PC payers don't make the same type of bets as I do. They trade, I simply bet. |
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PC3 hits all types of players. It also hits the small winning punter. I would love to win £100 next week. But 62.5% deductions make that a dream. And all because you are fortunate enough to have a good winning strategy in the early days of Betfair. I have come to the conclusion Betfair don't wont the small winning punter to stay on this site.
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Hazel,
I am in the same situation.I have exceeded the £250k amount by a small margin over several years betting.I used to make more in the early years and have found it much more challenging over recent times.I will continue short-term for a bit of interest when watching various sports but with 60% deduction there is no longer any point in working hard at it.All good things come to an end sooner or later,just glad to have had a good run at it really. |
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CLYDEBANK29, I'm not sure what point you are making.
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kenilworth
I don't trade...and almost never green out....I bet on single bets...and aim for 4% to 5% POT...but I have cut out those small POT bets, as I don't use bots or API why should I pay more fees to betfair, just because I do the same job better then you... |
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nairda, BF expect a certain % from your account, at least
as much as you get. You clearly have no where else to go with your business otherwise you would have gone by now. GL to you. |
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My understanding is long term max you'll pay is 40%. The 60% is only to accelerate some people towards the 40% target, once they've paid enough it'll stabilise at 40. Correct me if I'm wrong but there seems to be some confusion in this thread.
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Kenilworth
I have not had a bet at betfair since PC 2 (or PC 3) came in..But I know, money is still leaving betfair to pay me what you don't understand, this PC doesn't level the playing field for you.Those PC payers will be paying their PC with extra money taken from you, you will end up winning much less then you do now, and be paying more in commis to profits in 6 months time So , Good luck to you |
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Just Checking,
Unfortunately,no.I have been paying 60% ever since the last change.It is you who is confused.At this point I would be pleased to be paying 40%!!! |
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Fair enough nb, happy to be corrected ;) I thought the PC/PC2 people paid counted towards the calculation, which makes sense. If the PC you pay DOESN'T count towards the calculation, that's pretty unfair..
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nairda, if I only bet when my pick is a certain
price or higher, and no bet unless, how can I pay extra, unless the commission it is now ? Perhaps certain prices don't reach my minimum in which case I wouldn't know would I ? I may have less bets but I won't be taking lower prices in my view. BTW, if you are not betting, why are you on here now ? |
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hazel
27 Aug 11 12:03 Joined: 15 Jun 01 | Topic/replies: 237 | Blogger: hazel's blog PC3 hits all types of players. It also hits the small winning punter. -------- tbf, it's hard to categorise anyone who's made 250K+ net as a small winning punter. that comes to a minimum of 25K a year, tax free. ie significantly more than the average wage. |
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Ken, you're right....you will just keep getting the same value on each bet
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"tbf, it's hard to categorise anyone who's made 250K+ net as a small winning punter. that comes to a minimum of 25K a year, tax free. ie significantly more than the average wage"
Erm, far be it from me to point out a possible flaw in that argument, but they could easily have lost 200k with the bookies, meaning they were making only a few hundred a month...and that's not including other costs like petrol, internet, cable tv etc etc.... |
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i have a few stupid questions that i would really appreciate if someone would answer
1. if betfair charge 5% commission on EVERY bet, how could they not be making very large amounts of money, even if some players are withdrawing their winnings? We see many many markets that exceed 1 million pounds every single day (they are getting 50k from each of these markets!!). Almost every UK race reaches at least 500k traded. Then football etc all have millions traded and BF are taking 5% for themselves. Surely they are pulling in million PER WEEK just with the 5% commission charge??? 2. Why has no alternative exchange popped up and got bigger due to BF introducing the charges? Seems like 60% is a massive amount to pay to BF and if I was a PC3 player I would be off to an alternative exchange. 3. Are winners not welcome on BF now? It would seem that winners are not welcome. 60% is a joke. I just can't understand how BF can't be making MILLIONS with 5% commission in place. Why the need to charge 20% and then 60%? Surely they will eventually force the rise of a competitor exchange when people move to that exchange to escape the 60%. Can anyone answer my simple Qs? |
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pulio
1) commission isn't charged per bet, it's charged on a winning market. So if you back Man Utd at evens for £1,000 and then lay them at evens for £1,000 you will not have made or lost anything, and you will pay no commission. 2) it seems to be the case that the exchange with the most liquidity attracts yet more liquidity, so it is difficult for others to compete. Betfair's consistent tampering with the charging structure does create some uncertainty though. 3) apparently they are, but it's a precarious situation. |
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yeah, they could modj, but in reality they very probably haven't. for an arber to be 250K net up on bf but only 50K up overall is pretty unlikely.
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pulio, BF is after everybody's money. In extreme cases (I imagine) there
are some who are betting in, and profitting in such a way, they are paying very little by way of commission. These punters are of no interest to BF as they are sucking away money that BF has to replace, and when they identify those people who 'pay' BF very little, the PC is their way of making them pay more. They don't mind people winning but from every £ they win, BF wants more than 5p in the £1. 60p seems to be their target, those are the facts as I see it. |
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Just wondering how many people are caught to pay the 60%. I would imagine they will give betduck a go
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About 0.001% I suspect.
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kenilworth
30 Aug 11 09:26 Joined: 04 Nov 05 | Topic/replies: 5,793 | Blogger: kenilworth's blog They don't mind people winning but from every £ they win, BF wants more than 5p in the £1. 60p seems to be their target, those are the facts as I see it. BF gets more than 5p in every pound, the figure bandied around on here is that they currently make 72p on every pound deposited into the site. I guess you need to work up from there for their target... |
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betfair has p!ssed away so much of it's profits on non core sh!t, that betfair need to rape the betting exchange for every little cent
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inner city sumo
72p in each pound...betfair sounding like that song "Hotel California" you can win any time you like, but you can never leave (with the money) :)))) |
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viva, my scenario may not be usual but it happens a lot more than you might imagine. Many arbers find that the "value" side of the arb is on betfair, so winning decent amounts here whilst losing lots to a bookie is certainly reallistic. Of course as nobody has any idea what price they will get paid out here after pc, due to not knowing what other bets they will place later on in the week, that type of arbing is all but impossible.
Yet another reason why the pc is a total farce. |
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yes, but the value side isn't necessarily the winning side.
I just don't think that any arber who's 250K net up on BF is likely not to have arbed millions to get to that point. and you can't really describe someone like that as a "small winning punter", imo. none of which is to defend the whole thing, of course. |
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If we had any sense at all, we would walk away from it.
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Exactly the point in a virtual monopoly ken, you can't.
No different to having a single electricity supplier with no regulator, who just hikes up it's prices whenever it wants, and you have no choice but to pay whatever they say.  |
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Modj, my arbs are down on bf to a sum closer to six figures than to five figs.
This is a very valuable buffer as it's prevented me from ever paying the pc (even on a defined contribution, defined return pool betting account w/ others). I only play horses and the odds are more accurate on here than the lines the bm s put up first thing. |
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unfortunately though modj, people need electricity, whereas they don't need exchange betting.
that and the fact that as gamblers people have the option of the traditional firms mean the de facto monopoly argument whilst true will never get any traction imo. |
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But the traditonal firms just ban you if you show signs of knowing what you are doing, so that isn't an option really. They will happily accomodate mugs who do ten match accas with 112% overounds, but dare to beat them and you will be shown the door.
Point taken that you don't "have to gamble" although for some it is their job. (not me, sadly / fortunately!) |
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The reason why I use exchanges is for the simple reason
of convenience, and I feel I could walk away from it, but I do enjoy playing in a live matches, whatever they r.I do make it pay albeit in a modest fashion, don't pay PC so that is not a problem, although I pay the equivelent by way of commission, that is a PC charge under a different name. I use to go racing a lot, not so much nowadays but still enjoy betting with bookmakers on course, I'll never let go of that. Regards the 60% payers, BF don't want them it's as simple as that and that's the reason for the seemingly high charge IMO, and as I pay the equivelent, I don't have any sympathy for them. GL. |
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well, I don't think there's ever going to be a benefit gig for gamblers who've made a quarter of a million plus, kenilworth.
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"and as I pay the equivelent, I don't have any sympathy for them"
Or in other words, because I don't have a system whereby I can bet efficiently enough to pay a lower amount of commission comensurate with profits made, nobody else should be allowed to either  |
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I think Betfair is a place for fun players only.
It looks as if winners have had their day in the sun.I suppose people could see it as just a hobby like stamp collecting. Many people will just come for the banter and have a fun bet and not worry about winning.You see the money in diverted away from the winner now seamingly to pay for the infastructure and other things. |
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I think Betfair is a place for fun players only.
It looks as if winners have had their day in the sun.I suppose people could see it as just a hobby like stamp collecting. Many people will just come for the banter and have a fun bet and not worry about winning.You see the money in diverted away from the winner now seamingly to pay for the infastructure and other things. |
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I think Betfair is a place for fun players only.
It looks as if winners have had their day in the sun.I suppose people could see it as just a hobby like stamp collecting. Many people will just come for the banter and have a fun bet and not worry about winning.You see the money in diverted away from the winner now seamingly to pay for the infastructure and other things. |
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I think Betfair is a place for fun players only.
It looks as if winners have had their day in the sun.I suppose people could see it as just a hobby like stamp collecting. Many people will just come for the banter and have a fun bet and not worry about winning.You see the money in diverted away from the winner now seamingly to pay for the infastructure and other things. |
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pmbets
I think you're right...Betfair is now just like bet365 but with more social media |
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Modjadji .
"and as I pay the equivelent, I don't have any sympathy for them" Or in other words, because I don't have a system whereby I can bet efficiently enough to pay a lower amount of commission comensurate with profits made, nobody else should be allowed to either Incorrect, 99% of punters on here bet straight, but some have found a loophole in the system and are exploiting to the cost of the 99%, so if that loophole has been closed, I am not surprised. Do those paying the 60% surcharge have sympathy for those paying 60%+ commission, also the losers ? Don't make me laugh. |
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Seems like a lot of bitter people around.
It's just business. A service provider increases prices - it happens everywhere everyday! If your business model is wholly reliant on a sole supplier then you never had a long term business model in the first place. Always have a plan B. Adapt or die. |