General Betting
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can you please me explain
†Premium Charges at higher rates
Higher rates of Premium Charge will apply to the very small number of customers (less than 0.1%) that satisfy the following conditions over the lifetime of their account:
•Lifetime net profits*** exceed £250,000
•Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
•Bet in more than 1,000 markets
so if i say in few years have made the limit of profit £250,000 and all other conditions will they take me 60% of that profit or from then to all other profits i made in future?
†Premium Charges at higher rates
Higher rates of Premium Charge will apply to the very small number of customers (less than 0.1%) that satisfy the following conditions over the lifetime of their account:
•Lifetime net profits*** exceed £250,000
•Commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
•Bet in more than 1,000 markets
so if i say in few years have made the limit of profit £250,000 and all other conditions will they take me 60% of that profit or from then to all other profits i made in future?
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from then on
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so when i reach whatever limit to take paying premium charges they from that day take me some percent on all bets i have made in future, so if on next bet my profit is say 100$ they will take from 20-60% of that, did i understand that all well?
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Yeah if you're paying 40% you only get 60 net for every 100 you win.
However, for every 100 you lose, you are effectively allowed to make 100 without paying charges which is worth about 40. The charging system is far more complicated than that, but that is roughly the effect. |
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Investor 2-this is only correct if you win and lose in the same Monday to Sunday period.
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id worry about it if you get there
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Worth thinking about beforehand imo. I had bets on Man utd next manager market years ago, and US next president which will now only pay out half, as bf will take 50% off me. If I'd known, I wouldn't have bothered. I won't touch long term markets now. Who knows what they'll charge in 6 months time.
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I've got outstanding bets on 'next countdown presenter'.I would never have laid the bets if I knew about the PC2 as any winnings will have 60% deducted and losses will be taken in full.
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In reality the only alternative rebating system that can effect losses is one that reduces the pc2 when you win and increases your losses when you lose as you don't pay any extra charges when you lose? Are you all eating fruit from the silly tree?
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BF. this is to you... You dont have to worry about prem charge cause you never bet zip aint ever seen any tips / picks from you .. and iam pretty sure if and its a BIG if you ever put any picks up you would do your brain so dont worry or talk about something that is never going to effect you ..... leave it to the big boys
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What you fail to realise because you never bet and will only ever pay Pc in your dreams is that it is still possible to lose in any week even if paying 60% PC.This is why your comments always assume higher PC payers automatically win every week-you have no idea of different betting strategies and why Pc2 affects gamblers in so many different ways.You are a totally ignorant waste of space-I would have thought even you would have got the message by now!!!
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Nbdbscms ... your spot on (by the way i like the form name) why give this BF any time of ours he his clueless if the bum would put up say 20k 3 backs or lays a day zip would wipe the floor with him i dont need the money winner takes all my winning would go to Christie Cancer Hospital Manchester .
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I agree that there will be an adverse effect to players that use certain betting strategies when paying there pc2 but if having to few bets they would be betting real big wouldn't they too of arrived at the £250,000 threshold, bit like saying a fisherman is worrying about paying extra market charges for a fish he catches only once a fortnight
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The situation where bets were struck before PC2 was introduced is an interesting one. I'm quite sure that legally (and most definitely ethically) they should be settled according to the T&Cs as they were when the bet was struck. If they attempt to charge PC2 on bets made before PC2 was added to the T&Cs I'd certainly take it up with them.
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I never expect to be betting 20K in a dog race, reckon £500 is the max really
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Big players will be in the horses,football, tennis and not greyhounds so I wont be too worried about pc2 an if using purple well my max bets would be 50 quid, tiny liquidity problem.
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Just because someone's 250k up on bf, doesn't mean that's how much they've made betting either. Plenty of people on here will lay off a liability on another exchange or on the high street to make a guaranteed profit. Invariably the value end of the arb is on here so this is where they win most.
This strategy is obviously out of the window with 50% pc but it's quite possible to reach that point, while not having made that much... and yes I am talking from experience. |
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I see layer good point and a lot have good points on here, I am out of my depth on some matters and mostly in respect to those who have been directly affected by charges, as fafh said to me once"treat them with respect as they are a bright bunch".
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By: 1.01 Layer
Date Joined: 23 Aug 03 Add contact | Send message When: 26 Aug 11 14:11 Joined: Date Joined: 23 Aug 03 | Topic/replies: 2,590 | Blogger: 1.01 Layer's blog Worth thinking about beforehand imo. I had bets on Man utd next manager market years ago, and US next president which will now only pay out half, as bf will take 50% off me. If I'd known, I wouldn't have bothered. I won't touch long term markets now. Who knows what they'll charge in 6 months time. ........................ fwiw when PC1 came into effect I had a good position on BBC Sports Personality. I was told quite clearly that bets placed before the charge came into effet would not be subject to the charge. (I had made a helluva song and dance of it on the forum mind which may have forced their hand) As it happens because of the way they "calculated" it which was completely incorrect I didnt get the full refund, but that's another story. |
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Yeah, but any difference is effectively offset against future PnL.
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That was in response to:
nbdbscms Date Joined: 12 Oct 04 Add contact | Send message When: 26 Aug 11 10:11 Joined: Date Joined: 12 Oct 04 | Topic/replies: 179 | Blogger: nbdbscms's blog Investor 2-this is only correct if you win and lose in the same Monday to Sunday period. |
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They even had the cheek to say they refunded me too much. Got me very angry at the time. I said at the time I'd take it to IBAS. Betfair said it was a matter for the Gambling Commission not IBAS. I got in touch with the Gambling Commission about it who said it was a matter for IBAS
 I didn't pursue it at the time but I did consider going to the small claims court out of principle. |
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Why shouldn't winning punters not pay 60% (reported) on their
profits ? I have paid around that in the years I have been on BF, the difference being my contribution to the Betfair coffers is called commission, not a Premium charge. |
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I am getting my own back on BF, i have installed under cover a vending machine in there HQ canteen that goes up to 50,000 quid for a cold drink to coincide when the heating goes up to 60 degrees celcius, reckon the recent pay rises will help me sell a few hundred more cups then were round to empty it, kah chiiing.
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you pay 2-5% kenilworth.
As it happens you'll pay more than me for placing exactly the same bets. That's actually illegal in business in the EU. |
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Just to clarify when I say that's illegal in business in the EU, I mean the general principle in EU law is that you can't charge 2 people different prices for the same thing if it puts them at a competitive disadvantage to their competitors.
I've no idea whether what Betfair has done with the PC contravenes it, but I'm sure as dammit no one gives a monkeys about a few gamblers so I guess it's largely irrelevant. |
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It'd be nice if they had to refund all PC taken to date
Not sure the shareholders would be too chuffed tho'  |
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Clydebank, you are of course correct, that I pay 2-5% per winning
bet but it's a fact that total commission paid by me is higher than 60% of my gross profit. |
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TheI2,
I may have misunderstood somewhere,but if I have one bet of £100 in a week and it loses that is all lost.If I win £100 next week then Iwill win £40.I get no credit for the previous week's loss.Or are we at cross purposes? |
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kenilworth
maybe you should have done more work and cut out alot of your losing bets/trades... but now , no need to become better and make more profit...you will pay 60% of your profits for life to betfair |
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nairda, I don't trade, maybe green up or red up occasionally
but that's all. I bet to my opinion and work to about 6% at best, for instance, backing 53 1/1 chances from 100 bets gives you a profit 6 points minus 2.65 commission, the eqivelent of around 40% of profits. Some people would die for that and I'm not complaining GL. |
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the difference being your commission is paid bet to bet whereas somebody on 60%PC doesn't know exactly where they stand until the end of the betting week
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nobody will stay on 60% unless they use the API
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The difference between kenilworth and a PC payer is he pays less for placing exactly the same bets. It's not rocket science
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PC payers don't make the same type of bets as I do. They trade, I simply
bet. |
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I bet.
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kenilworth Joined: 04 Nov 05
Replies: 5738 26 Aug 11 23:31 PC payers don't make the same type of bets as I do. They trade, I simply bet. Many PC payers bet. Many non-PC payers trade. I'm a PC payer and have more than one losing week in three. People talk as if it only applies to people who are operating risk-free, which is clearly ridiculous. |
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This is the point that many ill-informed people don't understand.Unless I have a reasonable amount of profit in the early part of a week it is not possible to offer odds on the smaller markets,as I have done in the past,as the 'risk' is too high on 60% PC.Unless you see your own individual scenario it is not possible to generalise.I am not looking for sympathy,just pointing out the PC is much more complex than many think.
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How does anyone know about others ? If I was paying a PC on
my betting I would close my account straight away. Of course there will be people who bet straight and pay PC but I'm sure it's a very, very small percentage of PC payers. FWIW, why do those people not go elsewhere for their betting ? The cries of protest remind me of an old joke... Man; ''When you make an uncomplimentary comment about women they take it personally'' Lady; '' I don't'' |
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By: kenilworth
Date Joined: 04 Nov 05 Add contact | Send message When: 27 Aug 11 11:17 Joined: Date Joined: 04 Nov 05 | Topic/replies: 5,740 | Blogger: kenilworth's blog How does anyone know about others ? |