General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 80 comments are related to the topic:
The effect of pc2 on profits will have gone in 2-3 years time
The effect of pc2 on profits will have gone in 2-3 years time
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 80
|
By:
Investor
some of my strategies win too quickly... and the clients placing those bets would be better off if they did not place them, and Betfair would be better off if those bets where not matched at ALL. if I did not place my side of the bets, the client would be matched even worse... but yes better for the long run if the retail person could not place those bets... but the retail player would not probably understand that and want their poor value bet matched anyway. DD I think your vested interest is allowing you to segregate close to identical behaviors. Ballybriggs I would love a position entry Tobin tax BRING IT ON... not sure traders will like you |
|
By:
interesting magicman, i thought you would not like tobin
 . discretionary tobin only charged to long term winner would be good idea for BetFAIR  , and zero tobin to loser. |
|
By:
Look...
betfair wants to keep 100% (as close to it) of all money deposited into betfair...that is it, the PC nothing about cheaters, fast TV guys or punters with inside info, paying their way, it's just about keeping all the money from everyone... |
|
By:
maybe I need to reread what tobin is...
but I thought it was a per trade tax, so an buy then sell for a small profit might be all consumed by tobin? |
|
By:
yes.
on BetFAIR you have peoples place single bet on market pay 5% at settlement. but when you have traders with edge each bet in same market, say 2% edge, then 1.02 to the power of 20 or 30 becomes big moneys. inrunning peoples who lose money dont just lose 5% at settlement expectancy, theyre money (say they have -2% bad edge, so return only 98%) is 0.98 to the power of 20 or 30 - big loses. tobin tax per trade would decrease edges of richest traders, whether they use bad things like cheating at the track or if they are just clever. one day BetFAIR will have some kind of tobin tax. it is inevitable. |
|
By:
betfair want every penny thats get deposited ...
the pc will keep continuing to rise ... if anything id put money in it rising not reducing unfortunately |
|
By:
ballabriggs
I would love tobin tax... |
|
By:
whats wrong with having a big edge? ,that what you all should do,find as big edge as you can and bet it...
mugs will lose their money at bookmakers at a faster rate betfair exchange is very profitable for betfair, just betfair wants the money at a faster rate |
|
By:
whats wrong with having a big edge?
sustainability and most people quite simply don't get that |
|
By:
Magician, please explain in more detail sustainability as I obviously "don't get that" (or I do, but vehemently disagree - if my assumption of what you are implying is correct).
|
|
By:
getafix if peoples get a good run for their money they come back, and many will be in profit for a while. if people get bashed on the head every time very quick they dont come back. many pc2 payers bash peoples on head. every time.
|
|
By:
If they lose they won't come back regardless of who they lose to so (nothing to do with sustainability) which is the reason for my question.
|
|
By:
wrong. they can place lots of bad bets but will still have winning run for while against magicman and non-pc2 payers.
against pc2 payers who win almost every bet, they will lose. bash bash bash. unsustainable. |
|
By:
ballabriggs has got it...
but you can find lots of research on client attrition and take out rate, often from compulsive gambling research it is not only about take out rate ( as lotto proves) but it has been shown to be a function of regularity of returns / size of returns and takeout rate. |
|
By:
whats wrong with having a big edge?
sustainability and most people quite simply don't get that One shop lives on selling $6 pizza and another shop goes broke selling $10 pizza...Just because betfair has p!ssed mone/ time away on non core sh!t, doesn't mean betting exchange model doesn't work and if betfair realy does need 40% plus from every account, then betfair is a f-cked company...it doesn't mean betting exchange doesn't work, it means mangers are sh!t |
|
By:
sorry I still don't get it? In an efficient market you would take the prices on offer. It doesn't matter who is providing the bets, the general concensus will generally move the odds to the correct percentages.
Maybe you are both talking about PC2 players who have an unfair advantage/cheats etc? Please confirm. I am talking about pc2 players who win from taking value prices based on no cheating, hoovering etc. |
|
By:
why would sustainability matter to those taking prices at the market formed prices?
|
|
By:
if what you mean by sustainability is that the commission exchanging hands between non pro's is more likely to end up in betfair's pockets to "sustain" the exchange then this is incorrect also. As nairda says above, the exchange work well. As I have written many times before, this can be clearly seen in the most recent annual reports.
|
|
By:
this is right Getafix...this is why everything betfair talk about why it need a PC is bullsh!t.....
|
|
By:
betfair wants to keep as much cash as it can...this it's goal, to keep as much of the money that come into Exchange, not about sustainability
Betfair believe the PC guys can't go else where, so betfair belive it can charge them as much as it wants nothing, nothing about sustainability... |
|
By:
Liquidity is down again
|
|
By:
based on what numbers pmbets?
which markets can you provide the data? and Ill check it |
|
By:
Nairda you just want us all to go to the duckpond and feed the ducks, your markets are different to ours and why are you not using both exchanges if profit volume is your restricting factor?
|
|
By:
true , pmbets must back up claims of diminished liquidity, its ok saying liquidity is down when in reality its 90% plus down at the purple copycat exchange compared to here, do you reckon there all over there, would be such a wild claim when the liquidity here is like an ocean compared to the duck ponds at certain core sporting markets(dogs/horses)
|
|
By:
true , pmbets must bas=ck up claims of diminished liquidity, its ok saying liquidity is down when in reality its 90% plus down at the purple copycat exchange compared to here, do you reckon there all over there, would be such a wild claim when the liquidity here is like an ocean compared to the duck ponds at certain core sporting markets(dogs/horses)
|
|
By:
bf_fananatic
I no longer care..I will be fine.... just these bullsh!t why betfair bring in the PC .....it nothing to do with sustainability of betting exchanges model, it just about betfair believing there a core group of punters that betfair can charge a bigger fee Betfair didn't believe those 500 would stop betting... |
|
By:
Have they stopped though, it seems there is still good liquidity around, we will no the answer in say 12 months but that performance may be more a matter of betfairs persistence at gaining new ground/customers and growth then to do with any alteration in the top players preferences for what is still a market leader for them , reckon there will be many using both sites and even more markets to pump up liquidity, also churning may occur which will pump up liquidity and profits to compensate for charge effects, your concerns though are respected and understood by us all and I know your a major player so I respect everything you say Nairda on the matter, all voices and customers matter, to betfair and us all!
|
|
By:
DD, I think you'll find that many forumites on here have blocked this enigma called bff.....
|
|
By:
Well I prefer to read their gibberish Stewarty and then expose their lunacy !
Why is he so concerned about liquidity here and at purple when he lacks even a jot of insight into this company...to state that customers` voices matter to Betfair is a totally unsubstantiated statement without a shred of evidence from this person whom I remain convinced does not work for BF. Go on bff...where did you get that impression from ?...give me a scrap of evidence if you dare. Otherwise you will look even more ridiculous than your posts indicate thus far. |
|
By:
Personally Duncan, I think that he's just bored and likes a good wind up. This is harmless in itself, but he does come across as someone who does have a certain amount of grey matter inside his coconut. That in itself makes him even more dangerous then the usual wind up numpty !!
|
|
By:
I haven't made a profit yet on here or even bet and many will have seen a big drop in there expected net profits but surely there are ways to increase this and with betfair backing you up with such an
amazing growth and liquidity profile, how can you go wrong sticking with them in the future, In looking for other gems of intelligence from said poster I found this reply to me earlier...how did I miss it ? "I haven't made a profit yet on here or [b]even bet"[/b] Is this really a fisherman of a very high standard Stewarty ? Has old DD been caught in the net..? Let`s await the next instalment from him which may inform simpletons like myself when the esteemed bff will finally have a bet with a site he seems to have such a handle on....until then I suggest that maybe the block button will be the next step for not just me. |
|
By:
Duncan, I have no idea what his agenda is, but I'm guessing that the wizards that used to work at Bletchley Park would have their work cut out trying to get into this man's psyche.
|
|
By:
Put in a nut shell any one that wants to leave that makes a huge profit then great as this will further reduce the strain on the system and allow others to happily win and pay charges with less
expectance of further charge increases, there loss will be our gain. We all want to win and its dog eat dog  |
|
By:
I am not bothered what betfair charge me if I win, as long as it maintains the system and they can afford me then great, they want 60%, no problem, doesn't mean I am crazy as I understand there business and hope they use the money wisely to super-charge the growth and liquidity in the future.
|
|
By:
...and the answers to my 2 questions...
why do customers` voices matter to BF and what experience do you have of this ? when are you going to have your first bet on here ? Oh yes and how do you `know` so much having been here one month? Thank you bff in anticipation of answers rather than company style spin please. |
|
By:
Having no experience of betfairs customer listening skills I cannot answer your first question
but if I compare there general winning ethos to say corals who openly avoid paying winners and like all hs bookie chains shut the door in there face I can say that betfair which was created by a pro gambler is still a monolith of value to all gamblers and traders! to answer your second question when I set out in 1993 to design greyhound software of my own as there is little of any value available on the market I had no idea how much work would be involved and how hard it would be to win from conventional bookmakers so although in 1995 I ended up with a great bit of software I shelved it as it took 12 minutes to enter each race and I decided to work in ther security business, now having been a member of betfair for several years and developing complety new application I have reached a point where I can make a sustained profit but again it takes hundreds of man hours to build, design, research, adapt, etc I fully expect to launch it pretty soon and can only see betfair platform as the premium choice to operate it on, paying charges I accept and know full well they deserve it. |
|
By:
Thank you.
"I have reached a point where I can make a sustained profit" I wish you luck, but strongly suspect that if and when you reach the £250K threshold (probably far less than that when you finally get things moving) your application will not be able to withstand the swingeing 40% or more PC...and if that happens perhaps you won`t be quite so approving and accepting of Betfair`s immoral method of behaviour towards winning gamblers. |
|
By:
Duncan - I'm convinced he's not genuine.
His strategy is simply to bung up the threads whenever they say anything controversial. He's scouring each thread and as soon as it veers onto topics which might be detrimental to Betfair he starts to post. The intention is to make forum opinion appear less obvious to anyone simply browsing (potential and new customers being the key audience). And if there's nothing too bad going on he opens his own threads to make sure the thread title list is equally mollified. He is obviously putting pretty much all of his time into doing this. |
|
By:
Weatherman..they`d have to pay me good wages to spend that amount of time here and any benefit to BF is cosmetic as the forum is virtually unanimous against the PC so his quest is pointless. I`m uncertain but I was prepared to give him the benefit of doubt
or am I ? How could anyone not bet on here and bother about a charge that will likely not affect him ever ?Case closed..bf_fanatic (subtle eh ?) you stand accused of being a BF plant...a pretty good one, but a plant nonetheless. NOBODY but NOBODY could kiss BF`s anus as you do and I will take Stewarty`s advice and block you from future postings. The join date is the smoking gun. Unless you can offer convincing evidence otherwise you are surely on BF`s books or a Walter Mitty of significant talent. |
|
By:
Weatherman and dd, how can you accuse me of scouring and hijacking threads when you come onto my thread and once again after I postulate yet again that all this soft harse moaning about a charge is
easily countered by common sense and wisdom, not one poster can ever bring himself to say " yes bff the charge ain't the end of the world" You come on to my thread and not only call me a fake and a plant but state to block me, why the hell should I care if you or some others block me when you have nothing positive to add or say and creep around thinking the world and betfair owe you something for just complaining all the time. Good bye and good riddance |