anyone got any good systems that take alot of your time but make small, consistent profits?

Magician is advertising for an assistant.

He's looking for a maths/computer grad

25 years too old - don't think I'd have the skill set. Or were you asking OP?

is he really?

i dont have an edge though. i have alot of time though. im guessing a system is an edge

I don't have much time - long working hours. So you have an advantage over me and many others. But, as you know, system does not equal profit. Also depends how you define 'system'. But I feel I may have been hooked?

hooked?

no if i had a reliable system to make £30 a day i'd be over the moon

Forget targets. Get into steady profit. Then you'll know to what extent you can increase stakes. In my case there are fairly limited opportunities hence I won't tell you what I do. And hence I'm asking questions about trading horses on another thread. Still keep looking for the football golden goose - and one day ...

By way of illustration I've just made the massive profit of £1.08 today. On £2 stakes trading horses. And I've made a steady profit over the month or so I've been doing it. Some bad days but generally a upward trend. Do I think I've cracked it? No. Is my 'system' scalable. Yes, but at risk levels I'm not comfortable with. Suggests to me I need a rethink - or some would say, grow some balls. But they'd probably be losing themselves when they say that.

read this.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=90197

I made a few grand doing something similar back in 2008. Requires very little capital, and carries very little risk.

What more could you ask for!

Very good advice from the Investor.

Just read that Investor.
Think I'd rather have a root canal.
But your point to the likes of paulme is good.
Didn't mean that offensively paulme, I just meant in the sense that you are apparently struggling for some sort of foothold into the gambling arena and this sort of thing could be at least a good starting point. Hard slow work but at least relevant to what you apparently want to become.

Didn't you say you had a Bet365 account ? Why don't you check every night to see if there is some arbing available on the football matches between BF and Bet365 ?

thanks investor but i dont think that's for me. hate all that website registration stuff! password this, password that! any other ideas? would rather just bet on here.

FAFH - you a full timer on here? you certainly are on the forum

undern - i do have bet 365 but not sure how to find arbs.

arbs = mbassist

But you'll be limited quickly.

Investor's advice is good. You wanted to make £30 a day - that's tough following that route but steady profit would be yours. Blown all my accounts doing it mind.

mbassist = ???

paulo how ya keeping? all good here. check ur msgs there

Yes it can be quite tedious paulme, but very useful to develop a routine of doing things properly, carefully recording bets, analysing results, converting odds etc.

If you can't be bothered to pick up free money, I find it difficult to see how you'll be successful. When I did my offer with Willhill, I made £80 for 30 minutes work. Doing all the little £25 and £10 bonuses is more of a hassle, but the big ones are definitely worthwhile.

When I revisted the traditional bookies in 2010 I found the whole thing far more interesting, as I had a deeper level of understanding, and I knew more about what caused odds to move.

There is far more money to be made on Betfair betting/trading, but it's far more difficult.

In 2010 I started arbing as a way to minimise the effects of PC. I still have Vc and B365 as I opened those accounts late and very rarely use them. I'll occasinally put a £1k or £2k arb on there, but will probably get limited after a while anyway.

Last week I got evens on Reading v Millwall on b365 and 1.95 here.
Also got 9.00 on Sunderland playing against Liverpool with VC

If you haven't got bookies accounts already and want to have a decent run at their offers then wait until the first day of Cheltenham next year.

If you can't make at least 1k from that then you should give the game up.

dont know how to find arbs though. also isnt a 1k/2k arb return about 100 quid though?

the vis you mean from horse racing?

paulme for the bookie offers you don't need to find arbs. You can literally make money from just about any bet you place.

Finding good prices does maximise profit, but even betting at crap odds will lead to profit, as they are effectively giving you free money.

The way this works is that for every x people doing this, some portion will join up and become a long term customer, so while some can exploit this opportunity for profit, the bookies profit overall as well.

They are talking about bookies introductory offers Paul.

New Customers get free bets. So they can back stuff on there and lay it on here .It is Free Money .

Obviously you can only do this once per bookie.

How many accounts do you have with bookies .There are about 20 of them.

ok yeah but this only last a month or so. i need 20-30 quid a day sustained

Back high lay low/Lay low back high.

Maximum 11 Aug 11 22:42
Combine getting the bonuses and each way arbing (max stake). Then get a sustainable job.

NEVER use max stake, books will end you quicker.

try some of them [;)]

http://bettingsystemsvault.com/systems2/

is that how you make 30k a month Macca?

Unfortunately I think paulme might have just given the game away regarding his work ethic.
"---hate all the web registration stuff. password thi, password that.--- "
You've always gotta put a hard day's work in to get anything anywhere.

paul what kind of staking plan u useing?

it takes some practice but heres what i do try it out......let say one team is at 2 and the other at 1.8. i wait for the dog to take the lead and drop to 1.5 then i pick em..what u think?

only bet on dogs that become favorites during a game

team or dog?

im hard working FAFH, just hate form filling online

under dogs

why would you back an underdog in the lead at worse odds than when the game started? that's

Paulme, how much bank will you initially be working with?

Back along I posted a simple method that I used to use on this forum that is a successful method and totally genuine, but like anything it requires effort and commitment. Most people seem to want the money but don't want to put in hours of research or do anything that actually requires mental effort beyond their comfort zone.

The method I detailed won't make big profits, but will easily average over £30 per day depending on bank size, and yes it's probably monotonous, but like Investor says it's a step in the right direction of noticing and learning other things as you go.

I'm not going to write about the method again because too many cooks and all that, but it's probably in my history for anyone that can be bothered to search.

Agree that anybody who isn't interested in doing form filling online isn't really interested in methods of making £30 per day as this would involve "form filling" type work ie lots of time in front of the screen doing the same sort of thing in a disciplined manner

My opinion is that the bookies offers are the best way to start for most people.  You have to be organised, keep detailed records, manage your money and be able to spot the right opportunities, whilst not going in too hard and gubbing your accounts earlier than you might with more restraint.

Overall this can also lead to new opportunities as you learn how the markets move, what you can and cannot get away with, which races offer the best chances to make a few quid, which ones to avoid, patterns of horses/jockeys/trainers/draw which continually shorten in certain circumstances.......the list is endless and the learning process can be fantastic if you want it to be.

Firstly, you have got to fill in a few forms however.

thanks investor but i dont think that's for me. hate all that website registration stuff! password this, password that!

That's your edge, paulme.

I'd definitely give a thumbs up to the use of Free Bet offers to make guaranteed money. I used to find that quite fun actually. It was rather intriguing going through various markets, looking for a handful of bets that would cost me virtually nothing (and even possibly make a profit if the bookmaker offered a Best Odds guarantee) while working my way through the requirements needed to unlock the free bets. Good solid way of making a bit of working capital - and the differing nature of the various offers makes you think too.

He still seems to be flitting restlessly from one idea to another as well.  Even when I was new to the game, I used to spend weeks investigating one small aspect of a betting system before deciding whether there was anything to it or not.

The number of factors key to horse racing are so wide, and many of them have so much depth to them, there's little point betting unless you're prepared to put in the many months (probably years) of legwork needed to get the kind of knowledge required to make money.

Yup. If I'd have put in as many hours on education as I have analysing racing form, I probably could have got myself a medical degree by now!

To echo what was said about arbing bookies offers, have a read through this:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=90197

The thread has drawn to a close but the guy made £60k in 5 years risk free.

I thought the free money from bookies offers was a lot harder in the last couple of years you now have to turnover your money so many times its not worth it. . .

Think that's only roulette. I attempted the matched betting about a 2 years ago and got to £150 in 3 weeks before I gave up. My problem is I've been through most sites when I was a freeroller in Poker and reputable sites where in hard supply. I'm a better than average poker player so I found my cash cow and gave up.

Freebets.co.uk has several hundred pounds worth of straightforward free bets offers. Some are a little more drawn out, but if you haven't signed up with many bookies then there are still a good number of lucrative deals available.

365 you deffo have to turn over your money three times. . . .

Also i dont think odds on count toward it must be evens or better(i know you will be looking for even money bets to get the free money but they will restrict you). . .

Bridgeboy, it doesn't matter what the odds are in matched betting as long as you have enough to lay off on the exchanges. In a free £25 deal you only make about £11 but they mount up, there's plenty of calculators out there to help. I'll see if I can dig up any of my old records, think my old PC was wiped of data but I think I sent a few emails to a fellow Betfarian on the subject.

365 with £200 bonus/free bet on 4/1+ winner/enhanced places terms and best odds guaranteed and the odd loyalty bonus throw in - I defy anybody not to at least double the £200 offer from a clean account

I've got one. endlessly pester people for scraps of information, then have 2 quid bets based on the tiny amount that they give you.

Yeah Freddie, I've got that problem too!  My passport's expired, and I don't drive, so proving who I am is supposedly impossible. Apparently, the fact that I've lived at the same address for 12 years and have bills and letters going back a decade is irrelevant.   

What annoys me is that these companies are happy to let me put money in using my credit card, but then insist that I give them things I don't have simply to get the money back again! How on earth can it be a security risk to put the damn money back onto the very same credit card that I had used to fund the account only one week previously....

Mind you, it's rare that you need to ever withdraw money from the bookies while doing these deals. Place lots of small bets at odds of 2/1 and below and, unless you have a really lucky run, most of the money will have disappeared from 365 by the end of the deal.. (Nothing teaches you the fallacy of blindly backing short-priced favourites more effectively than doing these offers!)   I find they generally don't complain too much as long as you're asking to withdraw less than you deposited.

True LordBobbin, the greedy bastards let you deposit without going through the verification process, then as soon as you want to withdraw you have to send them your life history. I fell out with extrabet over that in 2008, took them to IBAS, who unsurprisingly ruled in their favour.

The Australian ones are the worst. I've always seen the Ozzies has being pretty laid-back people. But that was before I started dealing with their bookmakers! The amount of hoops you have to jump through to get verified with the big Australian firms is ridiculous.   So, if any of you are looking to do any free bet offers, I'd give a wide berth to IASBet et al..

Nobody seems to have give up any ideas or systems for paulme so ill tell you how i made a few quid, look to enter a 0-0 game at about 55mins(both teams to be about the same ish price) back 1-1 and just start scalping the 0-0, will sometimes cost you a couple of quid but defo profit and should lead you onto r stats of your own. . . hth. . .

nice one bridgeboy. you're a man after me own

Freddie my way you should be looking for 20% profit every game easy. . .

Paulme stoke v chelsea, back 1-2 and start scalping 0-0, if an early goal lay some green off 1-2 and continue scalping maybe making another ins bet. . .

By the way not what im doing but a good place to start and things will occur to you a tweek here a tweek there. . .

Im sure Paulme would welcome some advice from your good self freddie. . . .

Re stoke v chelsea if youve been scalping 0-0 there enough green on 1-1 to come with decent profit , scalp just bonus, ive called it a day. . . .

Have you been following the trade freddie ? ? ?

Yes,aint saying no more prob wont get a response for some RIDICULOUS reason.

Ive messed up backed 1-2 layed 1-1, no harm done greened back up, still got 0-0 money, you actually did me a right favout there freddie, another good tip concentrate. . .

A 0-0 back 44-45 mins ?

Gone a little early with 3.95, actually very early. . . .Oppps again. . .

You seem a little floopy doing this Bridgeboy. I thought it was your system!     If you're struggling, I don't see how Paulme's going to make it pay....

Ha ha. Seems we think alike Freddie!!

Looking like ive got away with it, now a nice 1/2 time bounce and cash in the bank, maybe better off looking for cash in the attic. . . .

Still a nice green allover now out at 3.55 will do, maybe i should stop posting during games,marseille looks good at 4.00pm maybe back 2-2 at £100 and 0-0 at £50, any thoughts lads ? ? ?

I don't have any thoughts. Don't approve of them.

Thinking i can go back into this at about 50-55 mins with a 1-1 back and a small 1-2 back and carry on scalping, is this a good idea ? ?

For anyone who isn't Paulme, ignore this post - I'm just continuing a conversation I was having with him on the 100K Challenge thread. (We've moved here before Undern gets really irritated with us taking over his thread!)

For anyone who is Paulme, commiserations.  Sorry, I mean, yes, horse racing is hard. Remember, though, that many of the people who claim to be experts (the Racing Post pickers, for example) are journalists first and foremost. They can write well about the sport and know enough to make it all sound convincing. But the majority of them didn't get their positions through proving that they could take a roll of money and increase it month on month by placing bets. And they can keep putting up unprofitable bets without any fear of getting the sack.

Also, they're full-time journalists, who have a lot of onerous tasks to perform that'll leave them with little opportunity to dig into the statistics as deeply as they might. On the other hand, most of the Betfairers are, essentially, full-time bettors who can spend huge amounts of time gathering up statistics, monitoring betting markets etc. and getting into the nitty gritty of betting strategies. (And have to, because if they don't, they're essentially out of work.)

I used to work as an IT journalist, and I can tell you that plenty of the posters on decent gaming forums knew stacks more about PC technology then any of us did. They were the ones who worked with the technology day in and day out, and who had to get the most from it, whilst we would just write up a quick review and then move onto the next piece.  I'd imagine this disparity is greater still on a sports betting publication, where the readership contains many individuals who make their living through betting and, therefore, have to be really good in order to survive - the journos can carry on posting up middle of the road pap and retaining their jobs.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that the Racing Post (and, I'd imagine, Timeform) aren't terribly good at posting picks. I know from personal experience that if you put in lots of effort, you can learn enough to start beating the markets. Last year I just about broke even, but this year I'm up modest amounts of money. Not megabucks, but enough to pay off the bills. I've upped my size a few times this year, and am about to up it again. Based on my current staking plan, I expect to be making £5K or so a month by the end of the year, with further opportunities for increasing in the future. It's really not easy, though, so you do need to question whether you're prepared to put in the hours over what's likely to be a fair amount of time.

Regarding speed figures, the majority of my betting is on US races, where DRF has some very decent figs. UK racing isn't quite as well suited to speed figures, since the tracks tend to be more specialist, and the distances are longer. The longer the distance, the less reliable the speed figure is likely to be - in the US, they consider anything more than 10 furlongs to be a marathon, whereas we routinely have flat races in excess of that distance.

However, while I can't say I bet every day on UK horse racing, I do put on a few bets a week, and I have found that there are some solid services out there that offer decent UK speed figures. I subscribe to informracing.com, and have found their figs to be reasonable. I think the costs are about £15 a month if you subscribe for three months at a time, which seems very good to me. There may be others around that are cheaper.

By the way, don't think of speed figures as being infallible or as a road to easy riches. You've always got to consider how the horse achieved that score, and whether it'll be able to repeat the feat in today's race. Two speed figures that are 2 or 3pts apart are, to all intents and purposes, almost identical, so don't read too much into them. However, as a way of determining which horses have the best chances (ranking the horses in order of their best figure from the last two races), and how close together the competitors are, they certainly have some merit.



The object of doing all the research, by the way, is to know the angles better than the competition, and to be able to use them effectively to assess the horse's chances of success. If you know there's a strong pace angle that may work against the fave, for example, or that the field is very closely matched and that, while the fave is the best horse, there are three or four others who have a good chance of winning as well, then you may have good reasons for laying the fave.

However, until you've done plenty of research, you probably won't really understand what's meant by these factors. You may think you understand what's meant by a 'strong pace angle', for example, but you won't necessarily be able to tell it when you see it unless you've gone through lots of races teaching yourself the telltale signs. Likewise, what's meant by a 'closely matched field'? That one's perhaps a bit more obvious, but you still need to be able to measure it precisely. You need to know exactly how closely matched it is, and how that's going to affect the fave.

Imagine a field with a forest running alongside it. Ask the average person what they see and they may reply 'Erm.. A grassy but?  And, erm, some sort of foresty thing.'   Ask an expert in animal tracking, however, and they'll be able to tell you precise which creatures have walked through there recently. They'll know this because they'll be able to see telltale signs - animal droppings, recently dug holes, trampled down branches - and they'll be able to associate them with specific animals.  And if the telltale signs aren't there, they'll hopefully be able to say 'I trust my instincts, but I don't have enough information to work from here. I can't answer that.'

The point is, the newcomer to Betfair is like the average person above. They may look across the form, but they haven't the faintest idea what they're looking for. But if they look over the form enough times and start to search for patterns, they'll gradually begin to detect things that were completely hidden to them before - eventually, they'll be more like the animal tracking expert.

You want to be able to look across the form and identify the telltale signs of specific angles (pace, close fields, class advantages). You want to be able to measure those angles precisely, know what effect (if any) those angles will have on the race, and then determine how they'll affect the winning chances of the horses.   And where you look over the form and can't detect the telltale signs confidently enough, that's very important too - it tells you you probably shouldn't be betting in that race, and should move on to another one.

Be disciplined in your betting (don't be put off and chase just because a bet loses - even value bets sometimes lose, just not often enough to wipe out the winnings from successful value bets), and bet only on races where you see why a price is wrong.

PS: Yes, the Veitch book is a darn good read.

PPS: I really need to revisit my definition of a 'short answer'..

Just reread my post, and in the 'Imagine a field' paragraph, I obviously meant for the average person to reply 'Erm.. A grassy bit?'.   Unless you're looking at Hampstead Heath, obviously, in which case the typo could well be unerringly accurate.

You could try the oldest profession in the world to make small profits for work thats pretty hard,just
make sure you dip your wood in creosote once in a while to keep in in good nick[;)]

Betting against heavy market moves.

nice post LordBobbbin  .... bit short for my liking but still very well written [:x]

Careful, or I'll start posting on your thread again. And I won't go easy on the word count this time!!  Lol

Oh, and thanks!

LordBobbbin -  "GOING" is the key factor in any race.........especially in BRITISH racing. Even in US racing the tracks can differ greatly on "GOING".

Other than not mentioning this factor, your post was well worth a read


GL with bets.

Yep, good point. A lot of my experience comes from the US dirt tracks, and while atrocious weather conditions can affect the races there, most days the surface is reasonably consistent. I can imagine it tends to change a lot more when you come to the British Turf though, and I notice a lot of analysts and bettors talk extensively about the going, so clearly that's something to bear in mind.

What about the weight in handicapping contests, DFC? A lot of people talk about that in UK racing too, but I do know a couple of shrewd horsemen who assure me it's pretty much a red herring. I've never looked into it myself but, next year, when I (hopefully) go more seriously into the UK racing, I'll have to do some research. Any views please?

WEIGHT - Is just 1 of many factors ......and should be taken into account on rating a horse.

If you get 2 horses with similar factors in their favour, but there is a weight difference, then it will become more important....especially if GOING is slow.

I certainly don't dwell on WEIGHT as first thing I look at before weighing up a race. GOING is key factor IMO.........as that will then indicate what horses have FACTORS IN FAVOUR for that type of race at that distance etc etc.......

I've gotta go help with household chores.......so this post definitely not a "good" response LB....but trust it helps.

Cheers the noooooooooooooooooo

Great stuff DFC.  Very illuminating.  I'll carefully store away your insights and bear them in mind when I come to focus more on the UK stuff in the near-future.

Thanks, and cheers the noooooooo yourself!

reading upto lord bobbin and freddie:

Seems we think alike Freddie!!

patronising gits. dont you dare accuse me of not being able to follow bridge boys system when you two, as far as i can see, are totally unproven in terms of betting success.

silly boys

expected more from lord bobbin as he does write well. however, freddie is blatantly just a troglodyte anyone can see that

Paulme - so you are now having a pop at Lord Bobbbin despite him spending the time posting up some very helpful ideas for you to consider.

If you read their posts carefully - you will see that he was having a cheeky comment back to Bridge boy who appeared for a little while as if he didn't know how to follow his own system ....

You be very careful with the way you treat others on here (in particular the ones that take the time to reply to you) as people will simply freeze you out because at the end of the day LB or others don't have a duty to educate you in gambling ....

Okay. Fair enough Paul. I've actually spent quite a lot of time (particularly over the last 24 hours) trying to give you a few hints and suggestions as to what you might be better off concentrating on. That's despite the fact that you seem to have the attention span of a dead gnat, and insist on spending most of your time firing off millions of stupid questions at everybody. (I mean, how hard is it to understand the points system used by the racing papers - I can't believe somebody can come up with a whole thread containing so many confused questions relating to that one topic alone!)   

Almost everybody you come into contact with seems to express the same exasperation with you. And yet we're the ones who are being silly???   Quite clearly you're not worth the effort, so I won't be wasting any more time speaking to you.   

I won't wish you luck, as you're going to need a hell of a lot more than luck if you're to get anywhere on Betfair.    Good riddance!    (And in case you hadn't realised, you're now blocked!)

Although 'freddie is blatantly just a troglodyte' did make me laugh!

pompous git. i was going to read your tips, and still will, and did thank you on undern's thread for taking the time, and would have done again, but i come on here and what i read first is your cheap jibes from the other day so took umbridge fella

wow Paul, don't get you at all. LB has obviously spent quite a bit of time trying to help and in a bit of detail too.

And you just go off on one.

about to read and respond after my breakfast. how are you shane mate?

ok once again lord bobbin thanks for taking the time to write that. i enjoy your insights and if you are making £5k a month off the nags by xmas then that would be truly phenomenal. i would pay you £1k a month if you told me your tips ;) direct debit do?

apols for going headstrong about the other days cheeky posts first but was responding in order. if you've blocked me then you wont see this anyway. love the hampstead heath typo comment. bravo good chap!

in terms of the advice you give i will look at these speed/form figures and see if anything clicks. i guess someone who understands these factors has an advantage over the market.

if you can read this, when you are making £5k a month how many bets a day/week would you imagine to be making?

If you did follow me sunday you would have had a nice green screen, if you took the advice on the Marseilles game you would have had a large green screen, i did post in good faith but to many p iss takers to bother, all the best Paulme. . . . .

Re my last post i hadnt read all the previous posts, some fair points made and i did c ock up but if you were following it made no difference, this is no "system" just trading c/s in play but you cant argue with a green screen. . . . .

Bridgeboy, sorry if I seemed to be a p iss taker. You did seem to be making a few slightly uncertain trades (and on a few occasions you were asking us for ideas on your system!), but you're quite right that you made a profit. And that's really the crucial thing.

I'm essentially done with this thread, so if you want to post again in another match and show Paulme how it's done, you won't get any backchat from me. (I can't account for Freddie though!  Probably even Freddie can't account for Freddie.)

Cheers for that LordBobbin i think the problem was i was trading 2 games and trying to post not a good idea, on sunday the thread just caught my eye so i thought id try to help but trading c/s in play you really have to be following the market especialley if scalping aswell, i just think this forum would be better if people shared ideas tweaks on others systems instead it just seems to be heading the way of the football forum(not aimed at anyone in particular)just my thought anyway. . . .

Even posting bets before an event goes off can be a bit stressful if you're combining it with the forum, so I can see how two ir events plus the forum could get a bit much...  You have to give the clear impression that you're on top of it, or there'll be plenty of us smirky types there to query you.

I'm never sure that betting and posting really mix. Sadly, I doubt that'll ever change.

All this discussion is meaningless. Even the so called experts cannot agree. And no one is going to reveal their edge.

For example there are 2 conflicting sayings in horse racing oft mentioned by "those who are supposed to know"!
1. Weight stops trains.
2. You can give away weight but you cannot give distance.

Oh for the days of the Baulked System which never ever had a losing bet.

I also think that people asking others thought ideas is a good thing, tonight for eg i think Celtic are very short so worth a lay but with a bit of ins on c/s market perhaps 1-0, 2-1, i would be interested to hear peoples thought on this, i really would it might lead me to tweak my stat ? ? ?

why would anyone try sharing and tweaking idea's on the forum when its the very people they are trying to beat.... if anyone who posts a system on the forum or elsewhere for that matter I can guarantee its a losing system

thanks BridgeBoy.

Lord Bobbin - stick around old chap! you're a good egg i think

Its not a "system" just an opinion and all im saying is why not share opinions people sharing opinions and info could be great the light weights and idiots would soon be ignored and wouldnt know what to do with the info/opions any way. I know this is all ideal world stuff but why not give i would expect people to get on at the "right" price first but why not then share ? ? ? Does any of this make sense? ? ?

Haven't read most of the thread as DFC's entrance usually
stops most things, never having read a single post of his
right through, perhaps I should.
In football it's worth considering opposing the high profile
sides (ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal, ManC etc) as they are usually
over bet. ManU won the league last season, with Chelsea 2nd
but a profit would not have been made backing either in the 76
matches they played, as in most seasons. You won't win too
much but you won't lose.

Bridgeboy, a fair comment but the trouble is this forum.
Put something up and it fails to oblige, you get laughed
off the place. That's the case on here, the idiots have
the call.

Kenilworth knows, its just not worth bothering, sad but true. Anybody willing to share on tonights games i have see my post at 15.41. . . . .