General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
09 Aug 11
22:42
Joined:
Date Joined:
16 Jan 09
Recently put an advert online, for a Graduate programer/mathematician...
after 30 days - only one reply.
can anyone recomend;
notice boards
chat rooms
recruitment agencies
that might have access to top quality young maths/computer grads.
cheers The Magician
after 30 days - only one reply.
can anyone recomend;
notice boards
chat rooms
recruitment agencies
that might have access to top quality young maths/computer grads.
cheers The Magician
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 137
|
By:
Only one ?.
In today's competitive job mkt.? Pretty astounding really. |
|
By:
surprised me also.
offered very competative opportunity, and was a specalist maths/comp job board apparently, with Hedge funds advertising of staff.... so seems to be serious not micky mouse |
|
By:
Maybe it was the gambling element that put them off.
Did you specifically highlight that ? |
|
By:
Although if you were in amongst the hedge fund cowboys, then why would that be a turn off ?
|
|
By:
Yes I did, but specified had good (long) track record.
maybe they all want to go into banks/HFs but you would think a few might just interview, for info fun or speculation.... the only response I got was a person in the later part of his career, telling me did not qualify, but contacted me anyway... I said happy to meet, and he never replied. |
|
By:
Heard a good hedge fund line the other day.
There are only two types of people in this world. Those who make money. And the other ? Oxygen thieves. |
|
By:
I have someone I would recommend who is very honest and a very hard worker, the only problem is that he works his guts out 9-10 months a year but likes to go on holiday the other 2-3 months.
|
|
By:
Magician, what are the tax implications in employing someone - assuming the job is to help with your betting? Employing someone will say to the tax man that your are betting as a business (not out of fun/retirement etc). I would be interested to see if you have received professional advice on this (assuming this is to further your betting)?
You should get a lot of interest from any decent jobs board so sounds like the job advertised is not very appealing/or dodgy sounding (maybe you should specify a guaranteed/safeguarded 1-2 years pay?). Why don't you post a link to the job, I am sure someone could help with the wording/more suited jobboard? |
|
By:
Yes, we could at least check the spelling for you Magician!
|
|
By:
Give Barry a call.
http://www.tindallresourcing.co.uk/home/ |
|
By:
In addition to the tax implications mentioned by Getafix, becoming an employer would involve a lot of expenses and obligations like employer's national insurance contributions. Surely it would be better to "contract" the project(s) to someone working as their own limited copmany - that way you just pay whatever fee you agree on.
If you really do want to employ a maths/computer graduate in the UK a lot of them will be looking at things like www.wilmott.com and www.efinancialcareers.co.uk. Just be sure not to mention gambling (instead "sports arbitrage"?) and "boutique hedge fund" or "family office" would get more hits than "punter". We all look forward to seeing the advert... |
|
By:
There's no shortage of jobs for top notch grads - it's everyone else that's screwed. You're competing against 60-70k starting salaries for the very top guys with computational physics or mathematics degrees. You might do well contacting a few unis directly. However, a lot of the good people will prefer to work for a big firm for job security, benefits, career progression etc - which you may not be able compete against. Plus their mums might not approve (even though running gambling bots is infinitely more honest than stealing pensions from hard working people).
|
|
By:
where do you find maths/computer grads?
India China Russia |
|
By:
how much is the pay, is it contract or perm?
|
|
By:
Everyone thanks for the helpful feedback
GB2 would be happy to talk to the individual you mention.... so please drop me an email to introduce him. Getafix Tax implications seem pretty clear, if he joins you as a risk partner it is a syndicate and gambling is tax free. If he joins you as an employee he is a service provider separate from your betting, and your betting remains tax free Needs to be document and structured but seems pretty simple. Catflappo Ill call Barry tomorrow – thanks DivideByZeroError Contracted agree to an extent, but ‘syndicate partner’ is probably better. I will try the links you offer. Chilli the Dog Would be very surprised if a ‘syndicate partner’ could not ‘win’ in excess of 60-70K per annum and receive it tax free (as a partner). A service provider has his own tax on income issues that make the offering less attractive. But I am pretty sure either structure could be built to exceed their income from Bank or HF, without much concern. I understand the working environment is different but surely some people want a entrepreneurial life and job, and freedom? RAPS understand some of them are good and cheep - but I really need face to face time with the person I am looking for so London base is more ideal Bredanuk1 If they are good it is permanent, if they are rubbish it is short term, but that is the same with all jobs. |
|
By:
I think here lies the problem, how many fresh graduates can afford to become a syndicate?...they have to risk their own money. I can understand why you only got 1 reply.
Without wishing to sound offensive (offering genuine advice) I remember you started a thread a while back about your strategy of just backing draws in the premiership as there had been a shortage of them one season up to that point...It would probably be cheaper, and certainly advantageous, to buy yourself a good beginners guide to statistics book as in this example you did not understand the laws of "independent events" which is one of the basic concepts in statistics. |
|
By:
I understand the working environment is different but surely some
people want a entrepreneurial life and job, and freedom? You're looking for someone open minded enough to want to do this for a living (even if it is sharing with a proven big winner) but who isn't already doing it - or more to the point - considers themselves able to go it alone. The freedom thing eliminates a huge % of people before you start, and then those who want it, for the large part, are going to want to be solo. The good news is that I suspect it will be very easy to spot the right man for the job when he comes along. |
|
By:
As mentioned above it's a tough call to find someone with the mindset to do something so entrepreneurial but not already doing it or sure that they can do it themselves.
Given the figures you've mentioned you need to demonstrate that your profit is going to increase by much more than £70k p.a. by the introduction of a new maths/computer person. So there is something technical that you don't feel able to do but you're confident that if someone else did it your profits would increase by say £100k per annum, or are you looking to automate what you are currently doing so gain lots of free time in return for giving up a share of the profits? Unfortunately there are plenty of people who will be earning more than 60/70k after tax in a bank after a few years and at the same time they will have been collecting pension, healthcare, life insurance etc. etc. and have an established CV in an industry that still makes money even after everything that's happened. |
|
By:
Won't a syndicate partner need tondi cash in? Remember honest al.
|
|
By:
Getafix
Original advert was for a paid position with bonus structure, but anyone joining me would be better off joining me in syndication. Regarding the Soccer Draws – that was bit of (profitable) fun – that was also to partially generate debate, I perfectly understand it was not statistically justified. Lori Hope he/she is easy to spot. DivideByZeroError Currently strategies are already 100% fully automated – my bots would run years untouched unless BF changed the API. There is no manual or daily setup required. I am looking for new programmers to automated additional strategies, which I don’t currently do AT ALL. If they just coded they would be OK, but if they could add value to modelling/risk/statistical assessment of back data etc... then the money we are discussing would come for certain. Agree – with the CV building etc etc etc... but banking salaries are becoming commoditised, gambling income is not – upside here can be quite impressive, and lifestyle starts with a 9am coffe and racing post, not 6am tube ride to Bank. Catflappo Syndicate member will not need cash, their contribution can be technical only. |
|
By:
Oh, I thought to be tax free you had to risk your own cash
|
|
By:
Where is your current ad? Got a link?
|
|
By:
no longer avaiable online but this was the ad
A private leading gambler with long track record seeks an exceptional Graduate to join his small committed team. You as the successful candidate will have recently graduated from a top university with a degree in a computer science or related Mathematics degree and have demonstrated an outstanding academic ability. The role will initially involve; 1) Implementation and management of data analysis of historical models with a focus on maximising ongoing wins from future gambling. In time the opportunity to develop new gambling systems and techniques will be encouraged. 2) Automate numerous betting strategies via API interaction with retail betting firms You will join a skilled focused, but small team, developing/analysing cutting edge algorithms/ideas/strategies in the field of gambling. Key requirements will include: * 1st / 2:1 Honours degree in a Computer Science related degree from a top university * A demonstrable passion for databases, data mining, statistical analysis * Ability to manage multiple tasks to deadlines, both in support and development * Excellent problem solving skills- ability to identify and clearly document issues * Self-motivated with the ability to work with minimal supervision – critical in this small dispersed team * Extensive coding experience in VBA, .net, c++ * Experienced with SQL or similar relational databases * Past exposure of knowledge of gambling is not required, and may not even be an advantage The location is potentially flexible, but a London based individual would be preferred. This is an exciting opportunity for a strong team player but with an enthusiastic entrepreneurial spirit, to join a largely virtual team, that can offer complex renumeration with significant upside based on performance. |
|
By:
catfloppo
I think with syndicates cash contribution is not essential.... Memeber A contributes cash, member B contributes code, and the code has a cash value.... |
|
By:
HFC route then TM [;)]
|
|
By:
HFT even
 |
|
By:
buzzer
HFT coder would be ideal.... perhaps with a strong stats background. |
|
By:
I don't think you'd rank too highly amongst options open to the candidates you describe.
If think back to how I was when I graduated... I wanted a steady income so I could pay back my loans, a big, reputable company with lots of training programs and a network. It wasn't until I got bored with that that I would haev considered something like this. I still think you may be able to find someone suitable for your work, especially in the current job market... but I'm not surprised to see the difficulties you are facing. And I agree with whoever mentioned the different connotations between 'gambling' and 'trading' |
|
By:
Martinch
Agree people want stability, and I guess i have that after years... but convincing someone I offer that could be hard I understand I am trying to get a person with only a few years experience (max) and they might not want it now... when once they have 10 years experience they will beg me for the job, bored or disillusioned with banking and its poor salary for sacrifice rates. so perhaps not an easy process... but the rewards are very considerable if I succeed... so i will keep looking |
|
By:
"Key requirements will include:
* 1st / 2:1 Honours degree in a Computer Science related degree from a top university * A demonstrable passion for databases, data mining, statistical analysis * Ability to manage multiple tasks to deadlines, both in support and development * Excellent problem solving skills- ability to identify and clearly document issues * Self-motivated with the ability to work with minimal supervision – critical in this small dispersed team * Extensive coding experience in VBA, .net, c++ * Experienced with SQL or similar relational databases " Neither computer science nor maths graduates have this type of experience nor even a passing knowledge. They have never managed anything in their lives - just been spoon fed for 21 years. They expect to start at the top but the employer to train them up on anything remotely applied. A non-"top" university would more probably find you someone who has at least a partial knowledge. Perhaps try an engineering graduate as they tend to be more practical in outlook and have a wider view. For gambling, you don't need such an extensive type of experience - it is all pretty basic in academic terms. |
|
By:
agree the requirements are self excluding, if you have some you wont have others. Students on this course would seem idea but they might not have a 2:1 in Comp Sci for example or extensive experience
http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/mathematics/postgraduate-study/msc/fin-math-folder/fin-math |
|
By:
agree on engineering would also include physics and maths
|
|
By:
cornubia
you seem a little of the pessimist while I am more an optomist. agree many grads need thier hand held.... but I will take someoen with 2-3-4 years in a bank (or similar) already |
|
By:
I'm a bit confused why you're looking in the banking world for starters.
What's so special about that experience. If you mean you're looking for trading quant types, then that's a bit different, but I wouldn't be surprised If they are very short on the ground in reality and very, very well paid in a very, very secure manner. ( ie not that bonus heavy) |
|
By:
i would like to do this but dont have a 2:1 in computer science or knowledge of coding.
however, i am a keen worker, and a quick learner |
|
By:
Could you scrub the "top university" criterion and trust your judgement of their merits?
|
|
By:
FAFH
Granted some of them might be... but I use to work in banking, and the polotics is stiffling profits and development of several ideas and staff. so I just need to find the skilled, disappointed... and get them to move, or the new and get them to choose entreprenerial route. do you have other ideas to get skilled c++ or .net programers that are focused on ms timing and interaction with a complex order book? and perhaps a strong quant, monte carlo, stats background seems banking is perfect place to recruit such people. |
|
By:
you want to find skilled, dissapointed applicants?
|
|
By:
Do you still have contact with the previous bunch Magician, not the same i know, Biggsy (i think) and a couple of others?
|