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Why Betfair Failed
Why Betfair Failed
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Replies: 73
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precisely vep - this is exactly it: it's all about forcing unnatural growth in order to satisify shareholders.
it's all very well "investing" in all these different products, but it's another matter entirely when you start interfering with your USP and most profitable part of the business. |
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DStyle
This is right...betfair need to take more money from core exchange business to pay for the other sh!t....Im not happy to pay for it |
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another thing to point out is that disposable incomes are at a more or less all-time post baldrick/luftwaffe low. and recreational (ie losing) gambling is ultimately discretionary spending.
so by what benchmark are current results being judged? that's assuming that the key thing driving the share price down is results as opposed to possible regulatory pressure being priced in. |
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thing also to remember... core exchange business is where betfair make it's most money, and of this Horse racing is 42.1% and soccer is 42.3% of betfair ...this means, that if Betduck make big inroads on Horse racing and soccer, betduck can take a big profits away from betfair
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it's been said before nairda that the biggest niche for a new exchange would be one focussed exclusively on a specific sport.
I think there's some merit to that. BF's so diluted its USP, that thefootballexchange dot com or some such, aggressively marketed as a fan v fan thing and maybe throwing in a few prop bets and new markets, could really work. |
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I think betduck horse racing tirnover is about 15% to betfair...and raising
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"refund commission on match odds markets involving Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man Utd & Man City"
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it's been said before nairda that the biggest niche for a new exchange would be one focussed exclusively on a specific sport.
I think there's some merit to that. BF's so diluted its USP, that thefootballexchange dot com or some such, aggressively marketed as a fan v fan thing and maybe throwing in a few prop bets and new markets, could really work. I have said this several times on here before and I totally believe that would indeed work, especially in football. Given the right comm rates and a totally person to person feel, loads of people would migrate to it. No rip offs, just a low rate comm and a simple easy to use interface, coupled with a trust in the niche product and no need to satisfy shareholders or grow "fat". Just a steady roller. Makes perfect sense and I think it will be soon to come. |
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dragon's den, here we come!
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funkymonkey
I think you will get to see this happen |
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Lets hope so :)
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I'm in!
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There are no hole in tradetionel bet excange model. There are only hole in way charge are made to custemer. Put a 60% charge flat on custemer is NUMNUMNUTSduh loooooooooooooool. Need a bigger TOBIN tax per trade, and smaller charge than 60% on remander.
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utterly stupid idea ballabriggs, which I presume is pocket talk on your part.
charging per transaction discourages market makers and traders, and therefore results in slacker overrounds and a less competitive offer to the recreational punter. ie lost business to traditional bookmakers. |
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"charging per transaction discourages market makers and traders"
So trader pay similar comissens to rest of us? Good news no? |
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not if they stop narrowing the spread in the markets you play, no.
where do you think those 100.2% overrounds come from? people with a 0.2% different opinion of what the true odds are, who are on commission-free deals the rest of us have never heard of? ffs |
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bf_fananatic Date Joined: 17 Jul 11
Got any write ups on will hill s bookmakers they make massive losses of 100s of millions each year http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/05/william-hill-idUSL6E7J40YD20110805 Fri Aug 5, 2011 6:21am EDT * H1 operating profit 147.7 mln stg vs f'cst 141.6 mln Peel Hunt upgraded its forecast for William Hill's full-year operating profit by 4 percent to 270 million pounds. |
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For somebody who claims to have never made a bet you know a lot about the place bf_fananatic
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charging per transaction discourages market makers and traders, and therefore results in slacker overrounds and a less competitive offer to the recreational punter. ie lost business to traditional bookmakers.
WALOFS. If middlemen are needed (and I don't think they are) then that's a function of the stupid interface. |
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variable commission rates based on the number of submitted (i.e. including cancelled) bets in a single market with a ceiling.
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In every other business new customers are given discounts. Betfair made the mistake of charging them the most.
5% for new customers but just 2% for those that were going to stay anyway was a fatal mistake. Hence they didn't get enough new customers so now have to try charge the ones who did stay too much. They should have charged new customers 2% and increased it for people who were in profit - but not at the ridiculous rates they are now trying. It's too late because with the initial "winners aren't welcome" PC they let the cat out of the bag that even a small commission rate adds up to 20% plus. Who is going to pay that now when they can see that the prices are no longer "20% better" to make up for it? |
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I think people are just withdrawing the liquidity from the markets at a faster growing pace.
There are many reasons for this.But I think the long recession we are entering now is the main reason. And it looks as if Betfair have introduced the PC2 charge at just the wrong time. It reminds me of 2001-2002 when a person had to wait ages for someone to put up a bad price .The spreads are getting wider and the liquidity reducing which is a very bad sign. |
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A specific exchange for football.
I would be in like flynn. |
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Accepting the obviously one sided view, it`s hard to disagree with that article.
The article astonishingly fails to even mention the PC and the untold damge it has not only done, but will continue to do. This immoral charge has ensured BF`s future growth will be affected even if those that ignore the exchange have zero chance of paying it. THIS is the shocking mismanagement blunder of all blunders..and there`s been many. That winners are unwelcome is no real shock..bookies have been playing that game for years, but wait for the reaction by BF to its fixed odds arm...do they think the sharks and winners are going to start losing ? The damage done to the share price is not just because of market conditions...this company has NOWHERE to go. The US is a pipedream and there is not a single serious gambler who doesn`t already use BF in this country. Mark Davies is allowed to walk out of the door without even a director there to shake his hand. Andrew Black saw the storm coming and retires..I could go on, the firm totally lacks direction, management and worse understanding of the betting business. Only BF know how bad figures are today...that a horserace turns over £1M is a smokescreen. How many actual punters played in that race of the millions registered here ? I suggest comm figs retained by BF are at an alltime low. Yet what do they do ?...show punters the door by inferring that only mugs are welcome. This firm COULD go bust you know. Because it is basically the emperor`s new clothes..there is nothing here....purple offers the same service yet still cannot take over the reins, astonishing. But BF will panic...and one wrong move could be disaster. They have themselves to blame and could be seeding their own markets soon to cover the fact that this business is deteriorating rapidly...job losses will surely be the next step. And you know what the worst aspect is ? Nobody really cares anymore...from the greatest ever innovation to a PR disaster in a decade...that takes some doing. Betfair management you should all be ashamed of yourselves. |
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I've not placed a bet here since PC2 came in (or posted a comment), but this 'sport specific' exchange idea is a cracker, IMHO. I always thought that 'the competition' needed to expand its portfolio of markets provided in order to compete, but, thinking about it, tennis and football specific exchanges, offering the full range of markets on the main tours/leagues would make much more sense.
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Corals in big financial trouble due to their bingo chain.
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I can see how the numbers lend themselves to specific exchanges for football, horses and probably tennis but what about golf, then cricket, rugby and all the minority betting sports. Some poorhouse exchange(s) run on a shoestring with naff all passing trade from the "main" sports.
Some people are going to need some more screens  |
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Had to laugh at the opening piece with SportingBet being classed as "the first-class fixed-odds bookmaking product which it needs"
If they are first class then heaven help the rest of the industry |
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.' \ (`._ (_) _ \ .' | '._) (_) | \ _.')\ .----..---. / |(_.' | / .-\-. \ | \ 0| | ( O| O) | o| | _ | .--.____.'._.-. | \ (_) | o -` .-` | | \ |`-._ _ _ _ _\ / \ | | `. |_ | o | \_ \ | -. .-. |.-. \ `--..-' O | `.`-' .' _.' .' | `-.-' /-.__ ' .-' .' `-.` '.|='=.='=.='=.='=|._/_ `-'.' `-._ `. |________/\_____| `-.' .' ).| '=' '='\/ '=' | `._.` '---------------' //___\ //___\ || || LGB ||_.-. ||_.-. (_.--__) (_.--__) Gee Nairda love the way the some press make successful companies look like silly cartoon characters cant wait to tell crabby and gary about your crazy ideas when am at work flipping burgers  |
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Very well said to the poster 'Duncan'.
Liquidity has not been as good this Saturday for the UK meetings as Saturdays in weeks gone-by. Seems to be quite a changing place now. |
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Yes, excellent post Duncan, sums it up very well indeed imo.
The thing that gets me is that we all know the exchange concept is a cracking one, and seeing as its basically open market for any company to use and replicate the idea of either niche exchanges as I have previously mentioned, or indeed just more purples and smarkets out there, there is absolutely no reason why start-ups cant simply create a basic, simple interface with low level comm for life. Just because BF went the stock market route, needing ever-growing profits to satisfy the monster, does not mean small well organised companies cant simply operate effeciently on a budget, taking all the great ideas that made the exchange concept appeal in the first place and rolling with a modest but consistent profit, whilst being a win-win alliance with their customer base. The argument that the other places then become shark pools as they just eat up the little guys does not stand up when the prices you can back and lay are identical, or in many cases better, than here, as we have been seeing now for sometime and it continues to grow. I am not a bot player or a market maker, but i do play lots of markets and less and less are needed here as the value is almost always elsewhere now, thats for damned sure. |
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funkymonkey
that the point...If team A is 2.00-2.02 on betfair...and I want to back Team A for 1.96 on betdq, my bet will be ab between betfair and betdq, my 1.96 bet plus commis of 2.5% at betdq, will be better value for me then 2.00 at PC of 40% on betfair...I will still win, and the money will still leave betfair |
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Yes, exactly nairda.
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Haven't had a bet here since the PC2 and I won't be treated with contempt, even if I'm not in any of the brackets to pay PC currently, not a million miles away from the PC1 and I would never agree to pay that ever thank you. My style of betting is flexible enough to be able to walk away.
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