Just got my premium charge statement from betfair

again...this is all about betfair getting rid of the  most successful punter (Profit on turnover, not amount of profit won) so betfair can play there own markets

It is why some punters have PC of 60% and other 40%...it all getting rid of those punter who can hurt betfair , when betfair starts playing their own markets

Profit on turnover is not what the makes the most successful punter, arguably quite the opposite.

Froggy, if you are a straight backer - i.e. you take a single bet per market, you won't get charged pc unless you are very lucky or know something you shouldn't.

You are, of course, very unlikely even to win.

i.e. you take a single bet per market, you won't get charged pc unless you are very lucky or know something you shouldn't.

I think the top end US sports gamblers would be charged PC based on strike rate alone if they were using Betfair. (Which they're unlikely to be doing)

* or you have a very big edge

cool.

I guess we will have to be wiser while using betfair. If you are just backing to win, then try out other bookmakers. Use betfair when you would like to trade or lay only. The odds doesn't greatly differ on popular markets atleast not to compensate for such a huge commission.

Doesn't make much sense for people like me especially who just back to win most of the time ( mostly on horses ). I trade mostly on football or cricket.

Last week I got mail telling me that I will be charged the premium but will be waived off since its the first time. That was around 2100 ( inaddition to the commission). This week it might be around the same figure. And no I am not making millions in profit. Just around 8 - 10 K a week. I am trying to insert a few screen shots of the premium statements but betfair sais its pending approval.

I guess nothing can be done as betfair has the right to make up rules. I have already withdrawn part of the money from betfair and moved it to WillHill. Now on, will use betfair only for trading and laying. Backing if the odds are significantly higher to compensate for the ridiculous premium charges.

kuthira
30 Jul 11 00:26   

This premium is a rip off. 20%. This is the first time for me. Of the 8000, I made in a week for which I have already paid 400 in commission. Does that mean bet fair would charge me an additional 1200 by end of the week?

I rarely trade on bet fair( back and lay). I generally just back to win. Wouldn't it be wiser if I tried other bookmakers. Are the odds so much better in bet fair to compensate for the 20% commission on the profits. If the odds are comparable with other bookies, I could use bet fair when I like to trade? Does will hill and ladrbrokes charge such a premium.

Please advise

If those 8 k were made without any losing markets that week they would actually take another 1.400 in PC, but can't see you being on 5 % commission if you can make that much in a week.

That 1.400 is as long as you only qualify for the 20 % PC.  If and when you qualify for PC2 they would take another 3.000 - 4.600 depending on your lifetime commission generated rate.

Hello Eddie,

I had quite a few losing bets in that 8K of profits. I went through the statement and here is the store so far this week.

My commission is 3.5% at the moment.

Total profits last week = 8796
Charges paid in commission = 483

I will be charges over 1200 by end of the week?

These are all back to win bets. I am just having a good run since last month. Never made any real money in the past 3 years.

Just want some good advice. Does it make sense to stick with betfair.

Eddie, do you trade on betfair ( as in back & lay )?

Have you made over 250k total profit?

'Just around 8 - 10 K a week'

just 400k-500k a year tax free and you are complaining about giving betfair a few extra quid. Unbelievable really.

Hi catfleppo,

I haven't made 250K. Not even six figures.

Hi frog2, Just having this run for the past 4-5 weeks. And i know it wont go for long. Just having a lucky run

Then you don't need to worry about pc2 for a while (if ever).

Look here while logged in:

https://premiumcharge.betfair.com/PremiumPortal/portal

It will tell you what you need to know.

You will only pay pc if your 'lucky run' continues.

kuthira, if that 8.756 is your gross profit for the week, you would have to pay 1.442 in PC.

Can't see how you are supposed to be in PC land though if you haven't made any real money during the last 3 years.
  Unless of course if you have upped your stakes heavily during this good run last month. That could very well make you a PC payer.
  If you mostly back and don't lay off it would make sense for you to put your bet on elswhere if you are able to get the same prices and amounts on, at least as long as Betfair will charge you PC.

I both back and lay on here, but are more a position taker than what one would call a trader on here.

Thanks catfleppo for the link. Actually I had mailed betfair asking if i could view the PC statement and waiting for their response

I there a way to find out current week's PC ( as of now )?

No, but if your lifetime commission generated is over 20% you don't need to worry about it yet.

This weeks number is unavailable during the week. You will only see this weeks number around noon tuesday and the PC is taken around noon wednesday.
  If you want to know where you stand regarding PC during a week you will have to keep a record of all wins and losses during that week.

Yes Eddie, I did increase my stake as the profits were coming in.

Thanks for the advice, I will keep observing other bookmakers too and see if the odds are much better in betfair ( 20% or more ).

May be its a shock because its the first time that you have to pay nearly 2000 of the 9000 you made when I haven't actually used any of the special features of betfair.

But you can of course find all that information under p & l in the my account section.  You will just have to do the maths yourself.

Lifetime Profile Markets  1568 
   
Gross PL £ 31,338.63 
   
Commission Generated £ 3,099.26 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 252.20 =
Total Charges £ 3,351.46 
   
Total Charges % 10.69 
Max possible Premium Charge £ 2,916.26 
Last Week 18/07/11 - 24/07/11     
   
Gross PL £ 19,090.32 
   
Commission Generated £ 901.80 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
       
Total Charges £ 901.80 
   
Total Charges % 4.72 
Max possible Premium Charge £ 2,916.26 
   
Premium Charge [pre-allowance] £ 2,916.26 
Available allowance £ 747.80 
Premium Charge Applied £ 2,168.46 
Remaining allowance £ 0.00

Betfair did waive off 2,168.46

No escape this time around.

I guess there are no way to reduce these charges by managing bets in some way or the other? :)

Wow!  You got that just backing?

To have those njumbers you sure have upped your stakes last couple of weeks

But that isn't uncommen if punters go on a good run, so I guess you are a perfect case on how punters/position takers easily can be caught in the PC net.

yes, more than 95% of it. I generally trade of test cricket where odds seem to swing quite a bit.

made mostly by backing horses. Hugh taylor and Gary O'Brian ( at the races ) having a good run recently. great odds. I am not a big player. Actually had less than 2000 in my account

I suggested a method by which betfair could give rebates without leaving themselves open to evasion. I also suggested to them that without rebates the pc was a disincentive for gamblers to increase stakes. I'd be as well battering my head against a brick wall.

Feck,

You may pass your suggestion to bf_fanatic, who believes that losing weeks have no impact at all ... he seems to be so impregnated by corporate propaganda that he can surely find a way to convey the information to the appropriate parties.

I think this is a good case for the rebate.  It's hard to know whether to congratulate or commiserate [smiley:crazy]

Saint-P, I've already passed them the idea. I think bf_fanatic's rejected it though.

Feck can you come up with an idea so that I can continue on here winning a small amount of money without paying 60%?  [;)]

Feck,

You may pass your suggestion to bf_fanatic, who believes that losing weeks have no impact at all ... he seems to be so impregnated by corporate propaganda that he can surely find a way to convey the information to the appropriate parties.


Feck N. Eejit
30 Jul 11 11:19   

Saint-P, I've already passed them the idea. I think bf_fanatic's rejected it though.   

Feck, do you know something others don't know ?

catfleppo

I bet single bets...had 10,000 bets over 8 years and won more then 250k , and pay around 13% commis to profit...99% of those 10,000 events bets is single bets

it doesn't make since to charge lifetime commission generated at 60% for one group of people, and another group 40% of LCG

it can't be about "being fair, and all paying their way"

why does betfair only want 40% (my profits) of commission generated from me, but 60% (profits) from another

for me, it can only mean betfair will bet into their own markets and betfair don't wnat to be betting againest those punters, because they win at such a high rate....this is nothing about replacing money or we all be charge the same min PC

Congratulations, nairda.  And I think you may be right.

nairda I agree with that.

The 50% and 60% rates are meant to be a punishment, otherwise why not charge 40%.  Its not as thougn the 50%+ people win more money and are draining Betfair liquidity, For example I have won £10,000 this year and I am expected pay 60%, yet someone else could be winning millions and paying 40%, 41%..

Right Hazel...why does betfair need a extra 20% from you? it can't be about you draning money and then replacing it...I, on 40% could take more money out of betfair then you on 60%

It about punishment, punishing punters who win at a very high strike rate

why?

Feck, do you know something others don't know?

No Eddie. I'm just guessing that bf_fanatic is betfair's revenge for all those years of pc calimero threads.


Feck can you come up with an idea so that I can continue on here winning a small amount of money without paying 60%?

I think they use me as a reverse barometer hazel.

For the Aussies:

Betfair’s Australian operations are regulated by the Tasmanian Gaming Commission in accordance with the Gaming Control Act 1993 (Tas). Betfair is required to adhere to a number of important probity and integrity provisions under this Act,
including:

 the prevention of wagering on illegal events;
 permitting the Tasmanian Gaming Commission to override any betting exchange rules it
deems to be oppressive or unfair;

Would be if the TGM would determine the 60% PC to be oppressive or unfair (which it is). Make your submissions to the Gambling Reform enquiry.

nairda
30 Jul 11 12:55 Joined: 05 Jan 07 | Topic/replies: 751 | Blogger: nairda's blog
Right Hazel...why does betfair need a extra 20% from you? it can't be about you draning money and then replacing it...I, on 40% could take more money out of betfair then you on 60%

It about punishment, punishing punters who win at a very high strike rate

why?

It’s not about punishment, even though that may seem to be the case because of who the latest charges generally affect.  It’s not about certain customers draining money out the exchange too quickly.  It’s not about using the money to attract new customers. 

Betfair are doing this because they can.  That’s it.  Their duty is to return the maximum amount of profit to their shareholders.  They see some customers as overly dependent on the exchange, to such an extent that these customers can be charged at ridiculous levels.  The fact that a lot of these customers may be long and loyal is just unfortunate.

Lots of large companies get involved with ‘social’ projects.  These may directly hurt their bottom line, but improve their image or deflect attention from their core business.  It’s a tradeoff between slightly reducing current profits with a better image and potentially larger profits in the future.

Betfair seem to want to take the reverse approach of this by attempting to maximise short-term profits.  Of course, this may just be one of the stages in changing their business model to one they see as potentially more profitable.  But it’s a risky strategy.  This move has created and will continue to create a great deal of ill will towards the company.  It is also another step in fundamentally altering their image and core brand.

making sure betfair makes more profit than the top customers as they suck it out the system makes great business sense, the best customers keep 40% which currently is tax free and therefore inline after the charge with what they would be paying in a taxable workplace, everyone is happy.

oh dear has betfair now become as greedy as the top 500 customers, how dare they expect some reward for all there hard work maintaining and building up the betfair company, didnt the top 500 do all that all on there own[did they hell], or is it just a case that the top 500 wish and thought they ran the company to the support of all other customers until the whole thing collapses under payment strain!

And after answering an interesting post from eggman with pure bs, you may help us understand your statements.

How can "the whole thing collapse under payment strain" if the money to the winners comes from the deposits of the losers?

(And even you finally agreed that such money belongs to the customers and not to the company, and an official Bf staff member has clearly stated: "That money is not an asset of the company and is not in the company books")

holy whale **** saint, you didnt mention charge, do betfair not make anything, do you think all they do is pay someone £200 to make a website and 2 guys sit on there bums watching you lot make buckets of money all day long! saint your a genius

lats put it this way, if you stepped to one side betfair wouldn't blink, if some of the top 500 stepped to one side which they wont, better wouldn't blink, if betfair stepped to one side, there would be no profits for anyone! does that tell you that betfair run betfair ,or the losers or winners?

take your time saint[;)]

‘bf_fananatic’ - I never said Betfair are ‘greedy’ - I simply said they are attempting to maximise their current profits.  I simply question whether this is in their long-term interests.  Please read and try to understand what people post before you respond.

How much Betfair’s ‘top customers’ earn in relation to how much Betfair earn is irrelevant.  Betfair provide an exchange.  The nature of an exchange mean that some users could possibly make more than the provider of the exchange.  That’s just the way it is.

How much they should charge some of their customers to keep the charges inline with ‘what they would be paying in a taxable workplace’ is spurious to say the least.

Of course the top 500 didn’t do it on their own.  A lot of the top 500 (of which I am one) may have put time and effort into providing liquidity and helping the exchange to grow.  It was a symbiotic relationship.  Betfair now feel they can break this relationship and continue to move away from the core principles that allowed to grow into the company they’ve become.  Whether this is the right move, time will tell.

Time for you to ignore everything I’ve just written and continue to post pointless nonsense.

I think that you think like a few on the forum that betfair are the losing punters and should pay you as much as possible, and you lot run betfair and have built it up, is there a bit of jealousy afoot I wonder!

Thank you for ignoring my post and continuing to post pointless nonsense. 

At least your grammar and spelling has improved slightly with all the posting you’ve been doing.

eggman, betfair certainly dont want to break any relationship between you and them, they just want to do better than break even, perhaps if you used other exchange as well as betfair to offset your pc2 charge then other exchanges would be forced to apply the same mechanisms in place, betfair really do want too keep the best of the customers with them, its not a punishment, its a business model adjustment thats all, something people like your good self have to apply from time to time

I think it’s a rule to have some form of grammatical or spelling mistake in any post pointing out poor spelling or grammar...

Wow you’re quick .  Have you got some sort of auto forum refresh?

eggman "grammer" ? your post with me is on tilt, shame we were getting somewhere!

I actually think the relationship now between winners and betfair is stronger as its not one sided where one side does all the management of the business, brings in new customers and money and the other just claims liquidity is there gift and takes money out of the system constantly on that basis, or have you not looked at it from betfairs position, do your personal profits blind you to any upkeep or payment to the the systems that allow this to happen!

Where have I said ‘grammer’?  In none of my posts have I said ‘grammer’.  I did make a mistake in that previous post, but it wasn’t ‘grammer’.  You have to be trolling...

I realise it’s a ‘business model adjustment’ or something of that sort. 

I never said it was a ‘punishment’.  I realise why they’ve implemented the charges.

And you’re right I don’t have to use Betfair, so I choose not to.  I just seem to have this morbid fascination with the current situation and what’s going to happen to the company.

I can see both sides of the argument but betfair cant comment on here, so to me its bias against the company all this anti-pc on here , I cant help feeling sorry for betfair having to apply this charge
and being unable to defend it on the forum, I want betfair to keep being successful and more people to understand that betfair aren't greedy, there just being careful with there charging and that they can move forward and not go bump as a marginal business!

What would be the justification in them being "fair" if they let 500 winners drain all customers losses
and hammer betfairs profit margins to nothing!

fairness is relative to how good someone has been out of the Eco-system, thats why in life peoples on a low income pay little if any tax and persons on a very high income pay super tax, again this is
different charging rates but is fair!

I think it’s a rule to have some form of grammatical or spelling mistake in any post pointing out poor spelling or grammar

above is where you mentioned grammar, think now your just being evasive and I cant take you seriously
anymore, as for you claiming I am trolling thats completely wrong!

You continue to prove that you fail to read before posting.

There are many things I’ve said that you could justifiably question.  Maybe you are incapable of doing so?

Smoke screen and mirrors.  Dilute and dispute to muddy the waters.

eggman

Yes, this is right to...they believe we just take it up the ass

Even taking the view that betfair just don't give a fk about their customers it's not in their interests to have a charging system that deters people from upping their stakes. If you like to bet 100K singles on televised football matches why in the hell would you come near betfair? They have an interface that deters large bets and now they have a commission system that does the same. It's as if they think their optimal existence lies in accommodating shysters to fleece low staking mugs as quickly as possible.

The Eggman
You are a member of the elite 500, and so your views must be seriously taken.
Can I just ask you why you are so sure or confident that you are totally correct in the points you make in your opening para of your firts post.
Because if you are correct then most the anti PC posts saying it is a pure money grab by BF would indeed be valid.
I have always been looking for some sort of authoritative proof on these critical points one way or the other to make up my mind for sure on the whole principle of the PC.
To date I have merely defended BF's right to make business decisions based on the factual information they have to hand, which information is not readily available to its critics on here and elsewhere.

Betfair are doing this because they can.  That’s it.  Their duty is to return the maximum amount of profit to their shareholders.  They see some customers as overly dependent on the exchange, to such an extent that these customers can be charged at ridiculous levels

But this dependents on Betfair is aomething we made....and we can take it away to

If a company is in profit, has millions of cash in the bank and is not increasing the spending in advertising but actually reducing it ... you tell me and the rest of the world what the PC2 has to do with a long-term profitable business ... because I fail to see it ...

(And the money being spent in a lot of failed projects ... and apparently not on the stability of the exchange ... just look for any of the "Oh my God, not again!" like posts about yet another service problem)

FAFH - of course we have limited information on the reasons for the decision.  It may be a money grab by Betfair - but it’s a perfectly rational (short-term?) one.  They are a public company and they have a duty to their shareholders.  As I’ve said in previous posts, I’m interested in how this changes the dynamic relationship Betfair have between them and their customers.  As nairda points out, Betfair is a company that is reliant on it’s customers to supply the money for the business to succeed.  Those customers can move, even if they’re not currently in the PC2 net, merely through the realisation that at some point in the future they may be.

It is my personal opinion that this move may have long-term detrimental consequences to the Betfair brand.  As Feck points out, there are now inherent problems with their charging structure.  You can’t have a growing and healthy exchange if you’re obsessed by how much certain users of the exchange are making and by excessively penalising successful users of the exchange (especially on the basis of how much they have made in the past).  By doing so you adversely affect the reasons for new customers to use the site (this affect may be slight but noticeable over time, especially with competition). 

Any new user that happens to peruse the charges page would probably be scared half to death.  A company can’t have a charging structure that is reliant on them maintaining a dominant position in their market for it to work, for, as sure as night follows day, they won’t be dominant for long.

which part of "betfair is making a ton of money" did people not understand?

that right eggman

also, those who pay PC have money...I would hold around 200k USD in betfair (more siting waiting), and I'm sure there many other PC accounts has 10 times the size of my account balances..If those PC accounts are p!ssed of as much..Then this is a large amount of p!ssed off money , that can make a move fast

and,betting promotion may do 70% of the market making trading,but betting promotion would only have 4m to 5m euros in accounts

nairda

You,and others, seem to believe that Betfair needs the big winners as much,if not more, than the big winners need Betfair.The board clearly believes otherwise.

Only time will tell.

You can stay but only if you pay more.

Just because you match loads of bets doesn't mean you are good for business.

You may even pay thousands in commission - but Betfair believe they could make even greater sums churning the mugs money over and over again without you.

The thing that I found with poker was, the Mugs will play where the winners play, because mugs don't know (or think) that they are mugs...

and only winner could get the games going

Surely it must be bf's goal to have as few significant customer relationships as possible, so long as the terms of those relationship are comfortable for bf and tolerable for these major customers?

The time when you try to broaden yr customer base is when the terms are tight (for you) and you need a lot of competition between yr customers to get you the best price?

The more customers you have, the higher yr information costs, for one thing, finding out what matters to each of them.

One analogy for bf's restricting themselves to handful of customers (who dominate the markets and make a low ratio of profit to charges) wd be a supermarket who have secured a very favourable deal (for them) w/ a seasonal grower. They will want as few of these deals as possible on nailed-down terms. I think there are only ten mega-chicken farms in the whole of the United States serving McDonalds.

They want the small recreational punters, absolutely, served by massive, inefficient incumbents. The pc avoidance strategies of small winners messed with all that. Their business choice is to hamper these small winners still further.

Eggman
In other words you don't really seem to know any more than any others do as to BF's real costs structure vis a vis maintaining and expanding the betting pool.
I was sort of hoping you would.
And so the debate will go on in its unfortunate fact deficient manner.
Entertaining but essentially irrelevant.

FINE AS FROG HAIR
31 Jul 11 18:08 Joined: 12 Mar 07 | Topic/replies: 3,736 | Blogger: FINE AS FROG HAIR's blog
Eggman
In other words you don't really seem to know any more than any others do as to BF's real costs structure vis a vis maintaining and expanding the betting pool.
I was sort of hoping you would.
And so the debate will go on in its unfortunate fact deficient manner.
Entertaining but essentially irrelevant.

At no point have I mentioned Betfair’s ‘real costs structure’ or how much it may or may not cost them to expand ‘the betting pool’, so it’s strange for you to think that I may be privy to any inside information with regard to this.  If you are particularly interested in these areas, maybe you should have a look at Betfair’s corporate site?

It’s also hard to have sufficient facts when talking about possible future scenarios.  I’m sure you’re aware of the difficulties surrounding predicting the future.

I just posted that I don’t think Betfair are punishing certain customers, but pursuing a strategy of profit maximisation.  I questioned whether this strategy could be detrimental to Betfair’s longer-term prospects for growth as it seemingly contradicts some of the core brand messages that enabled Betfair’s success, and adds another layer of complexity to their charging structure.

contradicts some of the core brand messages that enabled Betfair’s success

BETFAIR®, SHARP MINDS™     betfair no longer need to trademark SHARP MINDS 

Eggman
Just be honest.
It's going to hurt you specifically.
And you don't like it as such.
Nothing wrong with that attitude.
As to whether it is wrong for either BF or for the majority of other users ( exising or future) is not clear at this moment in time.
I did not assume that you knew any more than anybody else on anything, I was just hoping that you could perhaps back your opinion on the whole matter up with a few more facts than anybody else.
I was wrong and that's the end of it ( for me at least).

nairda they won't be using the other advertising slogan they used to use."Winners Always Welcome".

How about " Whingers Always Welcome " instead ?.

What about 'Team players welcome' Or you ands your mates down the pub welcome'
Something like that to attact people who never win long term.

Reading Peter Webb blog  (bet Angle)   ...I think Peter will make alot of money out of Betfair new PC rules, not only is Peter getting matched on Betduck, but now everyone who brought the bet angle software for betfair, would now have to buy it for betduck

Btw what about the timeworn phrase " Once a winner always a winner ".
Some of you so called " winners " on here seem to be debunking that in spades.

have a look at my thread that i just posted, its an idea to replace the premium charge it could work and have a look but it would need support, it could be the answer to all our problems

"have a look at my thread that i just posted"

------------

yeah - because this whole forum's sitting here agog waiting for more posts from you.

Err which one is my question.

The one about replacing the premium charge with a monthly subscription charge for using the exchange, in theory it would work as the revenue brought in would match the premium charge projected pool

of course it opens another can of worms[ are people prepared to pay for winners in advance of using the exchange] they clearly are prepared to keep moaning about it on here and everywhere else, I think if I were betfair I would of done things differently but of course now I reckon if a replacement for the pc were found then a lot of people would back it because there is no doubt that the pc is damaging in a public relations sense, no one complains about line rental or standing charges on energy meters and these charges make mega millions for companies!

bff, how much commisson have you paid this week?

From his ad nauseam posts I would be surprised if he even gets time to have a bet.

I think the bf stands for betfair forum

frog2 writes: "just 400k-500k a year tax free and you are complaining about giving betfair a few extra quid. Unbelievable really."

Tax free? Hardly. PC is a tax and the income is hardly guaranteed either.

Two points:

1) Wouldn't be surprised if this 60% charge would in future be adopted on smaller lifetime winning margins (therefore many more people affected)

2) Wouldn't be surprised if in future, commission was payable on all losing bets as well.

As for bff mentioning purple not being as good - I compared two identical races last night. Pre-race the purple had a higher amount matched pre-race, similar in-running and only about 10% less at close of the race. This to me clearly shows that liquidity over there is rising fast, therefore making it a viable alternative for those who are about to be (or have been) hit with PC2.

Bobman - the fact that the purple liquidity is improving all the time and comparable with Bf's in a way in which it never has been in its history is completely irrelevant - the only thing that matters is that it is calculated differently so you can completely ignore it...[;)]

gerard

really..the only thing that matters is, can you get you bets matched at the prices you want...with each passing day, this is happing more and more...

Indeed, although I think we are on the same side in this debate Nairda.

2) Wouldn't be surprised if in future, commission was payable on all losing bets as well.

-------------

that will never happen. BF's not going to do anything that negatively affects losers, because those are the punters they want and have serious competition for. in fact, they'd be more likely to do a commission cash-back offer to losing punters than this.

I'm sure if Betfair could restart today they wouldn't have this extremely messy and complicated charging structure.

What about a lower flat rate commission charge for everybody but charged on every winning bet and a very much smaller transaction charge on every bet placed.

Talking of the other place, I popped over today to have a look at the football markets, but out of all the matches on offer only one had a correct score market. Is that normal for purple? Seems crazy not to offer more markets per match.

Their football mkts are totally inadequate in scope I think trevh.
And let's face it, that is the real growth area in punting, particularly the mug punting.
So why not get their act together there immediately better ?

the celtic and rangers games were more than adequate and quite a few others in between
its quite satisfying how quickly you can build a bank by not paying extra commission i am quite happy

Match odds are sometimes ok but what else ?

I couldn't believe only one match had a c/s market, all the others had about 5 or 6 markets - match odds, overs/unders, asian.

Is it that difficult to add more markets? I thought it would be just the click of a button for them?

So my first impression of them is that they don't care much about making money, strange. Makes you wonder if they're owned by BF lol.

I've jokingly suggested that in the past too trev.

if you wanted to create an impression that there's no point trying to compete because it's too hard and rival exchanges are doomed, setting up purple would be a hard strategy to beat.

You have a real devious streak in you Viva.
I like it.

yes, now you mention it fafh - the main proof that that's not the case is that that level of effective deviousness would be completely beyond the people behind the betfair front room.

i am a manual player quite happy to have doubled my bank in a week
if I think a team is not going to win I lay them - very simple -
simples ha ha - whilst some of you are all getting tangled up in this deabate about bots (which bf hss never tried to stop)  and about being charged 5  20 40 etc etc
one of the nastier aspects of the new charges as has been pointed out over and over again is how u can havea nice winning run and then a bad one but still ending up forking out !!!!   I did that already.... already - it's not for me.