Premium Charge Avoidance.

so why are they investigating you?  Is the money you left in your account not enough to cover this week's PC?

Tell them to poke their account and go purple

Is it because they think you've been trading on someone else's account and they've linked them?

they will take up 2 a week, and they take the amount they think there owed in pc.  then they re-open ur account, and the account,s will be linked forever in regards to pc.

they dont need proof

no idea vis, been on the 20% premium charge for awhile, not that im a big player but been quite consistent and paid about 5-6k now in the charge. 

Had a large loss for me (was 3k) a few weeks ago and last few weeks iv slowly got it back.

put an offer in for the house on friday, so made a withdrawal 2k friday night, spoke with the owner and they accepted last night so i needed a little more 1500.  Been to the estate agents this morning, logged back in and suspended.  Have placed a few bets over at my stepdads last few days come to think of it, but hes not a p/c payer.   

had a good week this week +2.5k  but more than enough to cover this weeks charge if im back in pc range.

That large loss of 3 k some weeks ago can be what they are looking into if it was a suspicious loss.

expecting a call at 9ish, tho im told that the caller wont be able to give me much info on this matter?  2 weeks... thats pants.   I need this money for the poxy house.  haha.

I think the other poster said up to a week, but I wouldn't know.

Either that or your stepdads account.

They will be be going hell to leather now to stop people fiddling it.

Were the bets placed on your stepdad's account?

not sure the 3k's gonna be it.  It was on the english greyhound derby and i laid the winner in the quarters, he went and broke the track record, the fav went out in that race and he went from 34/1 to 5/1 new fav.  Didnt think he could win, laid it for more in the final and lost that amount.   Tho maybe the 3k sticks out??? 

Felt bad, but slowly got it back over the next 5/6 weeks losing the fear of taking a bet now and had a good week this week. The charge hike tho worrying about it in the long run / think its unfair... has been good for me in the short term.

no - my account, i even took me laptop up there as i was babysitting and his computer is crap.  Just plugged mine in, up there.

is ur account suspended ?  or can u play  but not allowed withdraws?

if you can still place a bet  then i no how u can get some coin out of ur account.

It would be a suspicious loss if you laid a dog @ 30ish in early illiquid hours and the dog later traded around 6.
  But I can't say as I know nothing of dog racing or prices.

does your step dad, or anyone else in his house, have an account?

matched you IP addressses.  Bloody liberty though. These (unts fooking me right off. Get a brief in

i can only change my account profile.... everything else is suspended. tried to cancel my open bets in my antepost markets but thats suspended.  I can see my individual market p+l's and iv been told matched bets are still matched and everything else is cancelled but this is just a right hassle at the mo.    Lucky i decided to have a day off and not get involved in todays cricket or it could have been suspended inplay.   

i think if i did try to get some money out of my account aspy via some other method, other than withdrawal i might be suspended again. :-(

weatherman2004 25 Jul 11 18:05 
does your step dad, or anyone else in his house, have an account?

the dog laid was 30/1  just before the off, on a saturday ngiht at around half 7 when they suspended it before the beginging off the round. (At that point was like 10fav in the betting and going under the radar for most)  drawn in the heat of death.  I was gutted as the pre fav and 3fav went out that very race and taylors sky won the heat in a new track record.  When the market resettled with like the first 4 all gone, he was the new fav.  Was like 6/1  after that race. i thought he would get eliminated that round. he won the semi and pinged in the final at 7/4. 

step dad and step brother have an account. But neither pay pc or likely too.   

Know nothing bout ip addresses stuff and even then, id think id cause those two to pay the p/c if they won, not me, as i already pay it / have paid it.  Just worrying now cuz i need this money for the deposit, come at a bad time at the mo.   2 weeks

just logged out and checked the antepost markets and the bets iv made are still there the fcukers!!!!  ffs this is peeving me off now.

Do you know if your stepdad/brother are able to log in to their accounts?

good point, il try them when they come home later.

Latest reply 

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please give the helpdesk a call on the numbers listed at the bottom of the email in order so that we can further assist you with canceling any Unmatched bets.

Card withdrawals take 2 - working days to reach your account.

Furthermore you will be contacted within 8 - 10 days once we have finished reviewing your account.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

Kind regards,

----------------------------
b/f getting worse by the day.
----------------------------
already phoned them to cancel me bets,  cant believe tho, they suspended the account and have now said, i have to re phone them to cancel any open bets.  (thats terrible) would have thought that if they suspended the account in this matter that my un matched bets would have been closed on suspension.

yes -i know withdrawals take 2 days but they havent said if my last 2 withdrawals have been confirmed or being held back???

so im being forced to take a week off work with no holiday pay and no info as to why im being looked at. 

looking forward to getting home and getting a call later.

Have they actually said that they've suspended your account because they suspect you of PC avoidance or are you just inferring that yourself?

What's a suspicious loss? Betfair welcome losses, surely.

Not suspicious losses from PC payers to non PC payers.

Why is that BigMig ?

ha ha, some very funny posts guys.   When i logged in early this afternoon, and since then, i get the message your account has been suspended on suspicion of premium charge avoidance, please contact betfair.

so i logged into my email address and there was an email from betfair waiting for me... from the investigation team.

anyway, eventually spoke with a nice chap on the helpdesk, stated he didnt have all the facts and couldnt tell me exactly whats happening but said the 2 withdrawals are being processed however i can not withdraw any further money pending the outcome.  I was also able to finally cancel my open bets.  But he said there was a large outstanding amount of p/c but couldnt tell me how much??? 

but he couldnt tell me why...if it was internet addresss / similar betting patterns in my local area?? just that it takes 8-10 days to normally investigate it and run and look at algorithms???? tho, said he would ask the team to speed this up because of my circumstances???.   Which gave me the impression he'd been on here?

expecting another call tomorrow. 

There's nothing wrong with a PC payer losing to a non-PC payer, surely.

Even if they are known to each other and bet at the same location and on the same IP address?

After all, you can't guarantee to lose because then you could guarantee to win?

Problems would arise, of course, if beard accounts etc were involved.

Or any I missing something?

Easiest thing in the world to lose from one account to another if it was allowed.
  What's a beard account ?

lol - ^ was just gonna ask the same.

an account which is yours but registered under a different identity. i.e. to deliberately conceal

bigmig - i imagine that is precisely what they are investigating.

any interaction between a PC paying account and winning one from the same IP address probably sends of a whole raft of warning signals.

Eddie - maybe you could give a clue about how guaranteed losing from one account is the easiest thing in the world!

Not sure if you are serious but...

Just lay something to your counterpart at artificially high odds in early illiquid markets and back it back from the same counterpart later at correct odds.  You have an all red screen and your counterpart has an equally all green screen.

*any interaction between a PC paying account a net losing one from the same IP address probably sends of a whole raft of warning signals.

ok, thanks for explaining that, not sure its that, but hey, hopefully get a better idea tomorrow. 

step bro's account is working fine. Will ask dad when i see him tomorrow.  Quite relieved tho that the 2 deposits are on the way tho. A little less stress for the house.  Even if i wont be able to but any furniture etc.  haha.   Who needs a roof too.  lol.

iv seen massive amounts of money being switched in what i can only describe as money transferring from one account to another lately on the cricket and im not def not doing this.

for example, the run line is evens for 200 runs,  im refreshing... refreshing... when suddenly someone  asks to lay 1/10 for a few grand for 400 runs that would never happen, or team a already have 100 runs and someone backs / lays..25 runs at evens.  I have managed to put a few quid infront of them on some occasions but you have to be quick. More often than not, u miss it but they play a risky game.  sometimes, iv stuck 50 quick at 8/1 or 6/1 infront of 2k at evens and quite surprisingly it goes?????  when evens is 50 / 75 / 100 runs earlier.

i saw someone once put 7k up at 5/1 to lay a batsman that was out and not going to be top bat, my 2 quid at 1000/1 got taken along with his £6998. couldnt believe it in me early days on here, but now guess its p/c betting etc.

It's not over till the fat lady sings ?
Just a little play on your chatname.

angela or mario

or non of the above?  haha

Last time I checked Betfair had Romanian staff. A nation renowned for no nonsense forensic operatives:




The Soviet Union had KGB, the USA has CIA and Romania had the "Securitate", agency  that listened to people's telephone calls, tortured and executed innocent people only for speaking freely...

3 secret agents meet to discuss about their job: an American, a Russian and a Romanian. They are discussing about how well the state secrets are being kept in their countries.

American CIA agent: "I work together with my wife at the CIA, she has no idea about what I work and I have no idea about what she does either! Secrets are well kept"

Russian KGB agent: "In my country it's more so, I work in the same office with my wife, neither of us has any clue about what the other is working"

Communist Romania and dictator Ceauşescu's regime had the reputation of being brutal, but also very disorganized...The Romanian secret agent replies...
Romanian Securitate agent: "In my country, it's even better! I work alone in my office and I have no idea about what I should do there!"

Thanks, Eddie, but I was hoping you would have foolproof system of losing on here and winning on the dack - effectively a method of transferring money from bf to bd!

after speaking to the head of the help desk last night, im amazed my ante-post bets are still up?????   he said... you still have a large number of open a/p bets... what would you like to do?? ....close them please.

They are still up ffs.

just called them again, spoke to someone about my bets still up and they cant cancel them til the bloke that i spoke to last night comes in today.

Whats this all about ffs.  This is not on. What a way to treat the customer.

Guilty until proved innocent in Betfair's eyes.

lanza. If i was you i'd have gone absolutely ballistic. Can't believe you're so calm. I'd have had the staff in tears if they froze my cash. Idiots.

And I'd be straight onto trading standards.

yeah, cant say im too pleased about it chris.  What what can i do??  iv sent numerous emails and and the responses back was phone in.  Iv phoned 3 times now and only now have the bets been cancelled.  (just had a look) but i cant believe they left the bets up whilst suspending the account????

book % in one market gone from 120 to 269.  lol

at the mo, im in the middle of moving and was always planning on cutting back on here while the house details are finalised, so suspending the account is not that bad at the mo, when the house is done or something goes wrong and i need some money shortly then maybe i wont be so calm about it.  Like i said the money for the rest of the deposit came through this morning and i have an open book now with only about 2k liability which iv managed elsewhere but not being able to 'work' im not thrilled about.

Wow. Well i would still call Trading Standards...but then i get onto them if my tele ain't working and Sky can't get an engineer out within the hour

Big companies take liberties. You would be shocked at actually how many rights you have. Ask for the name of their head of operations and say you're going to report them. It is your money and it's little short of theft.

Anyway that's just my thought. If you can afford to wait then fair play to you - i just think it's disgusting. And if it's a few K then there is interest too. Claim it even if it's a quid.

It does sound like a baby step away from theft/fraud. . . .

All accounts will be linked , PC considered to have been avoided will be deducted , and that will be your last chance .

interesting that his account was only suspended when he tried to make a withdrawal and not before

becos he bet at the other address the ip's are linked and bets will be presumed his..

Don't think they will presume it's him betting during those accounts   unless they show similar betting pattern and maybe also only were opened after the OP started paying PC.

well it isnt becos of the lay..theyve told him pc aviodance.

ip's linked 1.0001

Wouldn't moind laying some of that 1.0001

Surely a large suspicious losing lay can be PC avoidance...

I'm not saying this lay is suspicious though, haven't got a clue about betting on dogs.

Just finished trading at the other place on the cricket, wasnt that bad even tho i dont tend to do match odds that well. Runs and top bats always seem to be poor there tho, (even when they put them up) so cant say im too happy. But guess...i get to keep most of it this week.

think i only have close to 5k left in there now as iv taken quite abit out recently for the house, which is still quite worrying, potentially 2k losers in 1 market and 3k as a float for me day to day markets.  I can get by until i complete now on the house.  Then il start to panick maybe. ..  really dont overstake at all. Think most iv ever bet was 500 a few times and that was only cuz i had too as id overlaid them and panicked.

made about 4 withdrawals now in last 2 weeks, bout 10k in total... dont seem that much in the scheme of things?????? 

lost 3k in the derby, id be amazed if it was that, i had my money waiting at 20 and 30 as it was 40/1 for the week before and someone smashed it down from 40's to 18's just before the off.  Couldnt do a thing about it.

Step bro's / dads accounts working fine, both were opended way before mine.  Bro plays poker - step dad likes the horses but hardly bets.

Cant see it being the dog lay as id imagine they could see who bet the dog and id be totally shocked it there was any form of link???????????

Had thought it might have been because i recently got infront of someone i would consider to be trying to switch funds and made a few quid, playing that risky game but surely cant be that.

no other news

I agree premiumpayer. I haven't done much reading on the forums and just pop my head in every now and then. Are punters affected factoring in the premium charge to the price they are taking? Surely that makes the competitors more attractive in margin? Taking this into account the combined liquidity of the average price returned albeit less would still be worthwhile. Also knowing that you are building a competitor would give great satisfaction something which appears less to be happening here? PC payers should be supporting competition to the max as this will only make Betfair work harder and hopefully realise that they cannot make decisions without ramifications.

just missed the phone call, had an answer message but said no further updates and il av to check my emails from time to time over the next few days????

i just logged in but now it appears the account has been closed as i cant get my account options up. But the p/l figures are still there and i still have a balance.  that dont look too good

Will they or won't they ?
The suspense is killing us.

PREMIUMCHARGEPAYER - very good post and i agree entirely with you except for 2 fundamental points

1) they reserve the right to close anyones acccount for any reason

2) they will argue you signing up to new terms you have accepted them and whether fair or not is irrelevant

fear not lanza as ..

a...not guilty and everything back to normal
b...guilty and a premium charge fine and slapped wrist..

wazza,do you still play the dog markets on the big nights?

Forum could do with a couple of "laying this to take out 10k" threads to kick it into life!

so what was the final outcome here ??

Peter Webb, founder of Bet Angel, has tweeted today (@betangel) that his account has been suspended by Betfair. Geek's Toy and Punters Lounge give a few details, such as:

He's been told he will have to wait until Tuesday to find out why.
Unbelievable - everyone should be worried that they could be next.

is one post.

I must admit I am extremely uncomfortable with the idea that some automated process can trigger my account being suspended, betting frozen (including exiting positions), no withdrawal of funds and no one at BF able to discuss the matter for TEN days.

it's not hard to envisage PR nightmare's stemming from enforcement. eg:

* account a (pc) mistakenly linked to account b (non-pc)
* account a gives up and withdraws everything.
* account b suddenly finds himself getting taxed at 60%, despite being a lifetime loser.