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And if anybody wants to question why I'm stil on here at this early hour of the morning, I am simultaneously putting in some prices on tonight's football games.
You know early bird catches the worm, that sort of thing ?. Maybe some of you might consider doing that every now and again. Those with bots are doing it anyway, getting ahead of the game. I'm referring more to the poor " mug" manual players like me, trying to beat the pros at their own game sometimes. |
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Didn't go anywhere near it iz .
I hope you didn't too. |
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I just totally detest the argument that BF is not making some sort of fair business decision, mostly based on total personal interpretations of what is or isn't fair
What is your definition of a fair business decision??? |
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Btw iz, you'll never get through my green slimy skin, so don't even bother trying.
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ok, so you want us all to beleive that even though you have posted 100+ comments on the 'wise' business decision by betfair, that you have no interests in the company besides being just a 'customer'.
like i said - pr meltdown before the weeks out. |
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No such thing in my sort of business world dashero.
Honest has a place certainly, but fair is twaddle. |
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You wrote it???
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I've never said that the latest PC hike was wise.
I have just said that I don't think is a pure money grab by BF to support its share price. It could quite well turn out to be their " Ratner" moment as many like to forecast, apparently with great glee. How the hell would I know ?. I can't see the future. |
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Just read exactly what I wrote.
Others talk about fairness, I don't. |
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You are digressing big time here, you wrote about betfair's fair business decision. What did you mean by that???
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I do talk about fairmindedness though.
But that's different. That means at least trying objectively to see and undestand why another person/party is doing what they're doing. |
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I said that I detest the argument by som/many that BF is not making some sort of fair business decision.
That's not anything like me saying that BF should be making fair business decisions. If it is then we have a serious communication problem. |
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WTF??? So they may not have made a fair business decision???
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Anyway done my bets now, time for me to retire for the night, and let you all rip me apart in my absence.
Have fun. |
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Anyway done my bets now, time for me to retire for the night, and let you all rip me apart in my absence.
Have fun. yep.....another pr bot outed.....cue the next one. |
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TBH I can't believe I'm wasting my time on this sh1te
Sorry to interject Feck but I think the above statement sums up your situation. As you know I have little knowledge of bots and PC's. Having said that, why don't you bin all this maths and fully automated system malarkey (imo) for good. Now you may think to yourself, 'what does sb know about it'? Well this I do know. It wasn't all that long ago that you were posting record profits using, (I presume) your knowledge of the game and being a good reader of the form. I know the PC charge has scr ewed up a lot of peoples minds, but you can always split your money between exchanges. Basically, to cut a long story short, perhaps it's time to get back to basics. (It's never let you down in the past) |
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It's too time consuming stewarty. Having to sit for hours on end drip feeding money into markets because of this ridiculous parasite friendly interface drives me insane. It's also maddening to see some push button, drip feed detector's bot then jump in front of me. At least I'd be able to use that time for form study and improving my programme. I might give the purple a manual go during Goodwood though if only to see how bad it is or isn't.
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FAFH, it's not Betfair's responsibilty true. You have to wonder whether the signal Betfair is sending out with its actions is good for the long term business though.
The way I see it is this: We are going to charge you as much as we can get away with, and to top it off we may boot you off altogether at any stage in the near future and seed the markets ourselves, abandoning the exchange model altogether. Due to this, I will not be making long term investments in improving my results, and will focus more and more on making as much as possible right now. The rhetoric of needing more money to bring in new customers just doesn't fly. Any business can charge whatever it wants, but this justification just doesn't make sense to me (the figures are there for all to see). There's also the fact that betfair can get away with monopolistic practices as a betting exchange, as they can legitimately claim to be competing with other bookies, even though many of the Betfair customers would not use traditional bookies. Ever since the PC was originally introduced, I felt that Betfair should create a stable charging structure. The fact is that no-one knows what Betfair will do next. In 2012 it could be 80%. It could be that they just bid winners adieu. None of us knows. A commitment from Betfair not to increase their charges for say 10 years, would allow for long term planning. I also wonder about things like data request and transaction charges. Naturally technology improves at an exponential rate. Sometimes you run into bottlenecks and start from the ground up, but improvement is always there. That means it should be cheaper for Betfair year by year to handle this. This should be reflected in the pricing. Unlike PC these other charges are (perhaps) used to cover a very specific cost for the users involved (strain on the platform). It would just be weird if in 5 years time these charges haven't been lowered. Unless there is something other than cost offsetting going on... |
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PreBF the sports trader with his automated bots just didn't exist. He/she is a new category of player, one which BF has cultivated and encouraged to grow.
Likewise, the IR player didn't exist and I doubt that it was even a gleam in Bert's eye back then. Many of these new players boast very levels of consistency in making a profit week in and week out and at complete odds with the experience of traditional backers. I doubt that legislators had any conceivable idea that a regular stream of earnings could be generated through gambling. I believe that BF have seen the total amount lost to these players, compared them to their own profits and concluded that they are missing a trick. They could do what these new people are doing. So, they have introduced a charging structure, so imprecise in its targeting, that all sorts of "collateral" damage is occurring. It is easy to be caught in the net using traditional opinion plays. It is this which is really the mistake that BF have made. The consequence is that they have changed perceptions of how likely it is to make money. BF should have left the commission system as it was for the traditional players and introduced contracts with the "business" users which would involve license fees, profit sharing and admin fees. I also believe that this user group will come to be regarded a "business" for the purposes of tax, either personal or company. |
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I just don't think Betfair are concerned about hitting traditional punters with this. If you are paying less than 40% in commission placing straight bets (max one per market), you are doing phenominally well if this is over a very large number of bets (say tens of thousands depending on odds range bet at).
And of course, if you are placing multiple bets in the same markets, your returns will take on trader like characteristics anyway. This is effectively a profit share agreement. For all intents and purposes anyone hit by this can consider themselves as having entered into a profit share agreement, you effectively don't pay commission anymore as any strategy that does better than break even at GP level will be good to add to what you are doing. |
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Investor
Different game. Bets in hundreds pa maybe, but not tens of thousands. Almost certainly not a wide odds range, most likely top 3 or 4 in market. True for horseracing, don't know about other markets. |
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TheInvestor2
i'm placing straight bets..had just over 10,000 bets and pay about 13% of my profit in commis...with the last PC , now it around 20% i belive what Betfair said after last PC (20%)that need money to break even, but now i know it bullsh!t |
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I'm even lower than your 13% nairda, so on that basis I should be complaining louder than you.
You just cannot expect to be "taxed" so lowly on such a high strike rate and thus highly net profitable activity for ever and ever. Just not realistic. |
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Btw nairda you must have just about as much fun, and lack of success, as I do in getting on with the HS bookies.
You surely don't want BF to fail, do you ? |
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there more places then HS bookies...Asian books for soccer...pinnacle matcbook for USA sports...
betfair has rasied the tax to high..capital will move somewhere else |
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When I hear the word 'Fair', I know someone is gouging or ripping me off.
BF's sports market is the most profitable business operated by a UK public company. Despite BF frittering away tens of millions on various gaming failures. FYI, I managed to trade more at the Purple place than here on the Test match. |
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When I hear the word fair I think of coconut shys and candy floss.
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the words premium charge have made a bigger impact and explosion in the betting world and been the most talked about thing since the first atom was dropped, who would of thought the chain reaction
started all those years ago when 2 guys decided to start an exchange that would increase the likely hood of winning by creating a much fairer market than traditional betting firms. If betfair dont control the rate of explosive power the main 500 have and moderate it we could have a nuclear meltdown and the fall out would effect us all! |
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bf, the 500 affected are not the 'main' 500 users. There are quite small operators affected whilst some big players are not. It's quite clear from a lot of your posts that you don't understand this.
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*smallish, I'm not sure you can call someone who has made over £250k a small operator.
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Over the past 4-5 years, I've made about a grand a week on here. I'd consider myself small (relatively) and they want 50% from here on.
As my initial entry into any betting market is fairly price sensitive, it's more or less finished for me on here now. If anything, the 20% PC probably did me a favour as it made me leaner and meaner on here but 50% means that I can only afford to pick up genuine free money (effectively cheating), which generates no liquidity, I can't risk laying anything now at a sensible price, just in case I'm left holding an awful value bet. For the paltry amount of PC that it would sacrifice, I can only assume that the reason bf don't make say £500 a week, PC free is because they want to fill the gap that I was and they don't think my liquidity will be missed. Welcome to the new BF... losers and cheats welcome. Doesn't sound so catchy. |
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In the world of the shell and pea merchant, the loser is known as the 'mark'.
So how about 'Marks for sharks'? |