General Betting
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Genuine punters on Betfair will face a massive increase in liquidity from tomorrow. With the new Premium Charge Betfair have basically invited those who make too high margin via copycat trading and clock beating tactics to pay their way. The only way they can do this is to churn money in the markets on low margin, or slightly loss making strategies. This will provide a huge boost for genuine punters. Instead of being squeezed by the shell and pea merchants nicking a margin it is time for the copy cat traders to be squeezed by the genuine punters.
Add to this the new Betfair sportsbook. I cannot see Betfair wanting to take risk on those bets. The bets will flow into the exchange with Betfair making a margin offering slightly worse odds through the sportsbook. Money from any anti-exchange countries will now flow into here.
Dont worry about the people who say they are leaving here. Betfair are more than capable of picking up the slack. They probably have the best bot trader in his generation on their payrole. They will have no problem adding liquidity if it is needed for deriviative markets with no Premium Charge and no transaction charges to restrict them.
It is payback time against the copycat traders and fleecers. Betfair and the genuine punters who have supported the exchange from the start will get better prices and more liquidity from tomorrow.
Add to this the new Betfair sportsbook. I cannot see Betfair wanting to take risk on those bets. The bets will flow into the exchange with Betfair making a margin offering slightly worse odds through the sportsbook. Money from any anti-exchange countries will now flow into here.
Dont worry about the people who say they are leaving here. Betfair are more than capable of picking up the slack. They probably have the best bot trader in his generation on their payrole. They will have no problem adding liquidity if it is needed for deriviative markets with no Premium Charge and no transaction charges to restrict them.
It is payback time against the copycat traders and fleecers. Betfair and the genuine punters who have supported the exchange from the start will get better prices and more liquidity from tomorrow.
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oh dearie me
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frog's best friend on the payroll?
I turn the music down; and I don't know why, this is my house I turn the music down; and I don't know why, this is my house The best friend on the payroll No, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out No, no, no, no The best friend on the payroll Oh, no, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out More breakfast in bed, and I'll bring the paper in later The best friend on the payroll Oh, no, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out No, no, no, no The best friend on the payroll Oh, no, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out More breakfast in bed, and I'll bring the paper in later The best friend on the payroll No, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out No, no, no, no The best friend on the payroll No, no, no, no, it's not gonna work out It's not gonna work out |
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It is payback time against the copycat traders and fleecers. Betfair and the genuine punters who have supported the exchange from the start will get better prices and more liquidity from tomorrow.
How many Ferengi were previously generating less than 10% and how many of them had already taken the action you speak of to combat the 20% pc? Used to be they'd be aiming to generate 20%, now they only have to generate 10% to minimise the charges on their parasitic activities. Betfair's new charges have actually reduced the incentive for both Ferengi AND gamblers to supply liquidity. Where's the incentive for me to keep my rate at 2%? Why work all day drip feeding bets on 5 or 6 horses a race when I'll probably be as well off concentrating on my 3 or 4 best bets of the day? |
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If this was really about paying back copycats and fleecers they'd no longer be able to operate.
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I think they are saying 'yes you can still trade, but you have to either supply loads of liquidity at fair value or we will tax you'. I dont see why people are so against providing a bit of liquidity to help Betfair keep functioning. I think big players will do this. If you are making 5m a year trading on Betfair either give Betfair 3m or provide liquidity. Its a no brainer. I think they will choose to provide liquidity at fair value. Its not like they could make 5m a year so easily trading elsewhere. More liquidity at fair value is a good thing. It provides a strong base for Betfair's sportsbook and it gives genuine punters deeper markets.
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Is this some sort of frog thing ?
Btw I'm real curious as to who is " the best bot trader of his generation" and what on earth is he doing working for a salary ? |
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FFS frog, read what I just posted. If they wanted to generate liquidity they could've used something along the lines of my (wind up named) all new liquidity generating premium charge.
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This reads like a BF press release. I won't be holding my breath about any increase in liquidity. The big layers will just operate as normal as they will not be affected by the new PC. Those that pay it will be spending most of their time fine tuning how to get round it and/or looking over the road.
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you are making 5m a year trading on Betfair either give Betfair 3m or provide liquidity
5million ffs... You are living in a fantasy world, which is mirrorred by the general bullshine in the rest of your post the limit is 25k a year and there's only 480 people who've made that. |
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Is it gonna make it any easier to pick winners ?
Gee that would be really great. Can't wait for tomorrow in that case. Let's just hope all that massive increase in liquidity finds some takers. Can't have any disappointed customers, no matter what their stripes. |
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frog2? betfair's answer to iggle piggle.....only not as bright?
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must be fishing tbh and I've been caught. I'll move on
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CLYDEBANK29
Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 Add contact | Send message When: 17 Jul 11 13:09 Joined: Date Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 1,750 | Blogger: CLYDEBANK29's blog you are making 5m a year trading on Betfair either give Betfair 3m or provide liquidity 5million ffs... You are living in a fantasy world, which is mirrorred by the general bullshine in the rest of your post the limit is 25k a year and there's only 480 people who've made that. ................... There is no limit to what you can make on here. If you made 25k a year for 10 years you would pay the PC if your margins were good enough. Equally if you made 1m a year or 10m a year you also be in PC territory. There is not a cap on profits of 25k a year. I dont understand the point you are making. |
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Glad you're not accusing him of being one of my country cousins before you go Clyde.
Too much. |
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You could also make 10m a year and not be in pc territory. Betfair would like customers to be like that which is the point of the op.
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There's a prevailing presumption that "genuine punters" can't possibly be long term winners.
Most punters lack discipline, have no idea of value and cannot conceive their bet losing when they place it. If they want to line bf's and bookmakers pockets, fine but why not lose it to other punters? Until I'm shown the door, or taxed out of existence, I'll keep winning whatever I can get my grubby hands on, as the bookies have always done (and now bf wants in on). Only bet what you can afford to lose but win as much as you can. fwiw, I was a losing gambler for 20 years and now I'm cashing in as I might be loser for the next 20. Wouldn't you be pi$$ed off if you started winning and some other fecker wanted half? |
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Betfair would like customers to be like that which is the point of the op.
Feck me catflappo, are you falling for this as well? Please read this. How many Ferengi were previously generating less than 10% and how many of them had already taken the action you speak of to combat the 20% pc? Used to be they'd be aiming to generate 20%, now they only have to generate 10% to minimise the charges on their parasitic activities. Betfair's new charges have actually reduced the incentive for both Ferengi AND gamblers to supply liquidity. Where's the incentive for me to keep my rate at 2%? Why work all day drip feeding bets on 5 or 6 horses a race when I'll probably be as well off concentrating on my 3 or 4 best bets of the day? |
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Really not liking all this change.
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I read it Feck but I don't get it. If you match more bets on betfair you commit more liquidity and therefore you're a more valuable customer. The pc forces those who are not so valuable to play differently, cough up the shortfall or stop playing on betfair. I'm not going to change my tactics at all but I did for pc1 and in exactly the way that frog has suggested, even though I wasn't in the zone.
So, I think there is a good chance he could be right. |
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I don't see how this would be good for genuine punters, if PC payers churn the markets on lower value bets it would make the markets more efficient and therefore it would be harder for genuine punters to win. Traders can operate in more efficient and liquid markets so it might be good for them.
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catfloppo, come to think of it I'm talking sh1te above. I'm right in saying there won't be many who aren't already generating 10%+ and it won't take much for the rest of them to get to 10%+ and minimise their pc rate. I suppose though if they've got a strategy that generates liquidity and it doesn't cost them then they may well increase liquidity. How many of them will have a net break even strategy that generates up to 35% commission? If they had my odds compiling programme for horse racing they'd be hard pushed to generate that. A strategy for generating commission is easy but if you end up with the same net profit and just just pay normal commission instead of pc, what's the point?
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blank, they wouldn't be able to generate the extra commission by trading. They'd have to do it by gambling.
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Feck, you would be of more value to bf, which can only be a good thing, and you would be putting more money into more markets which would contribute to the sustainability of the exchange and the attraction to it of new customers.
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If they have such a strategy catfloppo. I don't think they grow on trees though.
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I don't think being of value to betfair is high on the agenda of middlemen and cheats.
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Add to this the new Betfair sportsbook. I cannot see Betfair wanting to take risk on those bets.
The sportsbook will come under "risk taking activities", so they will er...be taking a risk! |
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blank, they wouldn't be able to generate the extra commission by trading. They'd have to do it by gambling.
Yes, like Frog said they would have to churn money on low margin or slightly loss making strategies, this would make the markets more efficient as they look to take advantage of the slightest edge. The genuine punters who make 1 bet in a market would find it much harder to find value, traders who make lots of bets in a market wouldn't be too badly affected. |
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betfair venturing into sportsbooks and traditional bookmaking practices is a good and bad idea
traditional sportsbooks have a higher margin of profit but will not appeal too the majority of puters in an exchange. from a shareholders view point sportsbooks are deemed as a deviation away from betfairs dominance in betting exchanges and into the saturated traditional betting market further compounding the worst worry that betfairs growth has peaked and increasing margins is there only growth prospect. |
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Feck N. Eejit
I don't think being of value to betfair is high on the agenda of middlemen and cheats. Depends how clever they are. |
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imagine designing an amazing inter-galactic space craft and buiding it in record time!
then only too find after waiting years for all persons involved too decide where too go with the craft and who is going too pay too fill up the fuel tank, the craft starts rusting away! ring any bells |
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Can you explain Catfloppo. Most have no knowledge of sport. Suppose they only do their straight bets on something they think is going to shorten and end up with a net profit, gross break even and generate commission to reduce their pc. They've still given up the profits they would have had if they closed out those bets. Most legitimate "pc evasion strategies" seem to me to be nothing more than moving some pc charges in to normal commission but they just end up with the same profit if they'd just paid it in pc, so what's the point.
I can see how an odds sensitive gambler like myself can generate extra liquidity and reduce pc but now how someone with no opinion on the odds can. |
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Sorry Feck, I meant if they were clever they would have it high on their agenda. I agree it is difficult to achieve.
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catfleppo (how many different spellings are there
 ), do you not think that far from increasing liquidity the only thing this is going to increase is the number of accounts (I obviously don't mean new customers). |
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Lost count [:p]. Could be right about the accounts, I also wonder whether there will be any bots on the market
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Frog2
Are you the old frog from years ago? "They probably have the best bot trader in his generation on their payrole." do you suspect they have recruited someone or know they have? |
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Feck N. Eejit 17 Jul 11 14:43 Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 4,440 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog I don't think being of value to betfair is high on the agenda of middlemen and cheats agree - but it should be, they (well most of them) are just too shortsighted to realize it, and because they realise their edge is not legitimate and probably not long term, they have even shorter sighted views. you on the other hand - have a mutlti year (seemingly sustainable) stratergy... so you more than most should be helping betfair have liquidity - to ensure the recreational punter has a 'good' experience here (fair liquidity based) and stays indefinantly and loses ALL his social betting money on Betfair, not highstreet or other onlines |
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blank 17 Jul 11 14:24 Joined: 30 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 43 | Blogger: blank's blog I don't see how this would be good for genuine punters, if PC payers churn the markets on lower value bets it would make the markets more efficient and therefore it would be harder for genuine punters to win. Traders can operate in more efficient and liquid markets so it might be good for them. cant agree with this.... if a market is 1% inefficient NOW - the people (predominantly) gaingin from this inefficiency will be the pros/winners - the rertail player will be paying the 1% inefficiency chagre (and more) if churing PC payers make the market .5% 'inefficient' but break square... the .5% is effectively transfered from the prior winners (pros) to the retail player. this is good for betfair, and good for winners that think they can win for 50 Years. |
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How much can I have at 2.0 liquidity will drop over 20% starting tomorrow?
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Magician (100), I dont know if they have recruited anyone new but since I last saw you at the oxo tower we have the PC, the super PC,a cross matching bot, transaction charges and data request charges. These are all measures that I think are to level the playing field between traders and genuine punters.
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