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Their initial marketing stunt of carrying a coffin through the city of London bearing a death of the bookmaker slogan announced this brash new upstart to the world. And it worked. What was then the big 3 we’re terrified of their impact & lobbied fiercely against them, claiming they weren’t a bookmaker & shouldn’t be taxed just on net profit on commission. Pure bunkum, but it illustrates how concerned they were at the time.
But oh dear, how it’s all changed.
Like most dot com start up’s they’ve been used to trading on ridiculous p/e ratios. For example Betfair now currently trade on a p/e ratio of 38 even after their shares have basically tanked since the EPO.
As a contrast, a stable long established ftse 100 company like the National Grid trades on a p/e of 11. – and they pay a dividend of 5%.
Which one would you rather have shares in?
What this means is that there is a perception that Betfair is worth a lot more than the sum of it’s parts.
So, what is this nebulous perception based around?
The only answer to this is that Betfair are perceived to have a Unique Selling Point. They dominate the P2P betting market, their competitors liquidity compared to theirs is laughable. So, they dominate a niche market.
This is their only distinction from any other bookie. THE ONLY ONE.
And I repeat, this is the only thing that differentiates them from any other bookie.
So, what do they do?
In an example of corporate short term thinking that I believe is without precedent, they decide to not only shoot the goose that laid the golden egg, but to machine-gun it at point blank range.
Their CFO has announced that they will replace liquidity lost from their PC hike from their own sportsbook. His words not mine.
So, in laymans terms, they are going to dabble in their own markets. Gamekeeper turned poacher if you like.
At a stroke, he’s not only moved the goal posts, he’s changed the game forever.
I firmly believe that this is Betfair’s “Ratner” moment.
They’ve gone too far, not only have they curtailed previously successful gamblers activity, at a stroke they have said to any future gamblers aspirations that winning will only be allowed up to a pre-determined point ie: 250k. And that will be diluted by inflation anyway.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the recent changes to the premium charge structure become a classic example in future university seminars of how not to run a business.
It’s all so sad really, great copany, but with muppets at the top who don’t really understand the business, wtf are they going to do next?
It’s rapidly becoming a race to the bottom. Sad, very very sad.
But oh dear, how it’s all changed.
Like most dot com start up’s they’ve been used to trading on ridiculous p/e ratios. For example Betfair now currently trade on a p/e ratio of 38 even after their shares have basically tanked since the EPO.
As a contrast, a stable long established ftse 100 company like the National Grid trades on a p/e of 11. – and they pay a dividend of 5%.
Which one would you rather have shares in?
What this means is that there is a perception that Betfair is worth a lot more than the sum of it’s parts.
So, what is this nebulous perception based around?
The only answer to this is that Betfair are perceived to have a Unique Selling Point. They dominate the P2P betting market, their competitors liquidity compared to theirs is laughable. So, they dominate a niche market.
This is their only distinction from any other bookie. THE ONLY ONE.
And I repeat, this is the only thing that differentiates them from any other bookie.
So, what do they do?
In an example of corporate short term thinking that I believe is without precedent, they decide to not only shoot the goose that laid the golden egg, but to machine-gun it at point blank range.
Their CFO has announced that they will replace liquidity lost from their PC hike from their own sportsbook. His words not mine.
So, in laymans terms, they are going to dabble in their own markets. Gamekeeper turned poacher if you like.
At a stroke, he’s not only moved the goal posts, he’s changed the game forever.
I firmly believe that this is Betfair’s “Ratner” moment.
They’ve gone too far, not only have they curtailed previously successful gamblers activity, at a stroke they have said to any future gamblers aspirations that winning will only be allowed up to a pre-determined point ie: 250k. And that will be diluted by inflation anyway.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the recent changes to the premium charge structure become a classic example in future university seminars of how not to run a business.
It’s all so sad really, great copany, but with muppets at the top who don’t really understand the business, wtf are they going to do next?
It’s rapidly becoming a race to the bottom. Sad, very very sad.
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I'm not a pc hater, Unemployable, but that's a fair post. But I do think it will take more than what they've done so far to fck their business up, and they know that too. There's probably plenty of up and coming recreational punters that won't have a clue what you're talking about, or care.
YOU WILL NOW BE BANNED FROM THE FORUM
FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH
FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH
Very good post and completely agree with what you say.
However the share price shows that investors are more sophisticated than the management realised, and don't like the way this new PC is pissing off loyal customers.
I have been vilified for saying this on another thread, but I'll say it again here and no doubt receive more abuse.
Betfair's management are intelligent and decent types, they know they have made a big mistake, they will very soon recognise it and this new premium charge will be substantially and significantly ameliorated.
They won't concede it was wrong in principle, though they'll effectively do so in the way the change it. That's my prediction anyway.
However the share price shows that investors are more sophisticated than the management realised, and don't like the way this new PC is pissing off loyal customers.
I have been vilified for saying this on another thread, but I'll say it again here and no doubt receive more abuse.
Betfair's management are intelligent and decent types, they know they have made a big mistake, they will very soon recognise it and this new premium charge will be substantially and significantly ameliorated.
They won't concede it was wrong in principle, though they'll effectively do so in the way the change it. That's my prediction anyway.
BETFAIR,THEY HAVE GOT BIG TO SOON.
THE BANKS THOUGHT THEY WERE UNTOUCHABLE
I
AND THE NEWS OF THE WORLD
WHERE ARE THEY NOW
WILL BETFAIR FOLLOW.
THE BANKS THOUGHT THEY WERE UNTOUCHABLE
I
AND THE NEWS OF THE WORLD
WHERE ARE THEY NOW
WILL BETFAIR FOLLOW.
I can't help but think that gettingbetter has some sort of good inside info on all this.
So maybe he is really worth taking note of.
Not like the rest of us just stumbling around in the dark.
So maybe he is really worth taking note of.
Not like the rest of us just stumbling around in the dark.
Unemployable, that is a great post.
I'd add a couple of points.
The internet produces natural global monopolies, eg Google, Amazon. And that is the primary reason for BF's P/E.
BF go on about how great their technology is. It isn't.
On the internet, less is always more. The simpler the interface the better.
So what does BF do? They add in carp useless for 90% of the people here and don't fix obvious limitations. They are just not listening to their customers.
Then, as you point out, they take a unique global monopoly franchise that would have a P/E far above 50 and turn it into just another bookmaker with a P/E of 10.
I agree completely, the people in charge simply don't understand the business. Sad, but all too common in high tech.
Then by taking positions in their markets, they are setting themselves up for a smart spoofing bot to take them to the cleaners. In response they will take money out of the bot owners account, setting off a morass of legal issues.
I'd add a couple of points.
The internet produces natural global monopolies, eg Google, Amazon. And that is the primary reason for BF's P/E.
BF go on about how great their technology is. It isn't.
On the internet, less is always more. The simpler the interface the better.
So what does BF do? They add in carp useless for 90% of the people here and don't fix obvious limitations. They are just not listening to their customers.
Then, as you point out, they take a unique global monopoly franchise that would have a P/E far above 50 and turn it into just another bookmaker with a P/E of 10.
I agree completely, the people in charge simply don't understand the business. Sad, but all too common in high tech.
Then by taking positions in their markets, they are setting themselves up for a smart spoofing bot to take them to the cleaners. In response they will take money out of the bot owners account, setting off a morass of legal issues.
A lot of seemingly very smart people post on here that they think BF has had a " Ratner " moment or " have shot themselves in the foot " or " have killed the golden goose ".
They go on to say that BF now has nothing unique or attractive at all to attract any sort of reasonably intelligent punter(s) to their site.
So let me understand this.
On one hand, the HS bookies are effectively all saying you can bet with us, but never lay anything, anf if you show any signs at all of being able to win consistently, not even necessarily win more than you lose, we will ban you immediately without any notice or possible reprieve. End of story, end of your gambling experience/career with us.
On the other hand, BF are saying you can bet or lay anything you want with us in any amount if you can find a market maker to take your wager. You will never be banned for winning either consistently or for winning more than you lose.
If you are a highly successful gambler we will ask you to share your net winnings with us on a 40/60 basis, but only after you have aggregated total winnings of 1 quarter of a million pounds using our platform.
If you are a reasonably successful gambler we will ask you to share your net winnings with us on a 80/20 basis.
If you an inconsistent small net winning or net losing punter, we will only take 5% of any bet amount you win.
So you are all saying that any reasonably intelligent punter will choose the HS bookie over BF ?
Sorry but I just don't get it at all.
They go on to say that BF now has nothing unique or attractive at all to attract any sort of reasonably intelligent punter(s) to their site.
So let me understand this.
On one hand, the HS bookies are effectively all saying you can bet with us, but never lay anything, anf if you show any signs at all of being able to win consistently, not even necessarily win more than you lose, we will ban you immediately without any notice or possible reprieve. End of story, end of your gambling experience/career with us.
On the other hand, BF are saying you can bet or lay anything you want with us in any amount if you can find a market maker to take your wager. You will never be banned for winning either consistently or for winning more than you lose.
If you are a highly successful gambler we will ask you to share your net winnings with us on a 40/60 basis, but only after you have aggregated total winnings of 1 quarter of a million pounds using our platform.
If you are a reasonably successful gambler we will ask you to share your net winnings with us on a 80/20 basis.
If you an inconsistent small net winning or net losing punter, we will only take 5% of any bet amount you win.
So you are all saying that any reasonably intelligent punter will choose the HS bookie over BF ?
Sorry but I just don't get it at all.
Btw the minute BF bans anybody for winning they will lose my vote immediately.
Until that happens I will support them in their role as the only viable alternative to the HS bookies, for anybody who is the slightest bit capable of making even a few winning bets and wants to carry on doing so.
Until that happens I will support them in their role as the only viable alternative to the HS bookies, for anybody who is the slightest bit capable of making even a few winning bets and wants to carry on doing so.
what about 'effectively banned'. for example paying 40 - 60 percent of profits?
But I'm unintelligent that's why I make that choice.
Obviously if I was intelligent, I wouldn't would I ?.
Obviously if I was intelligent, I wouldn't would I ?.
What do you mean effectively banned ?.
Are you effectively banned from working for a living if you pay the highest rate of income tax ?
Are you effectively banned from working for a living if you pay the highest rate of income tax ?
ok frog, say you are on the highest rate of income tax and then it's tripled overnight.......what you be at work the following day?
Sure as long as I'm still getting a net salary which incidentally would still be very, very high by everyday standards. Why not ?
I could of course say that I've earned enough and retire. That would remain an option if I was so p!ssed off about it all on some sort of principle.
I could of course say that I've earned enough and retire. That would remain an option if I was so p!ssed off about it all on some sort of principle.
Exchanges are the best thing that ever happened to bookmakers. They're a dumping ground for winners, give them a free tissue and their stupid trading interface ensures the bookmakers can hang on to the bulk of losers and have a monopoly on early betting. The lack of innovation by the exchanges is nothing short of astounding.
Q: Why did God give the Arabs the oil and us the potatoes?
A: He gave us first choice.
Q: Why did God give the Arabs the oil and us the potatoes?
A: He gave us first choice.
- customers hears about the betfair exchange
- customer deposits money into betfair exchange
- customers places bet on betfair exchange
- customers loses bet on betfair exchange
- customer complains that betfair exchange is operating like an exchange
have i got this right feck?
- customer deposits money into betfair exchange
- customers places bet on betfair exchange
- customers loses bet on betfair exchange
- customer complains that betfair exchange is operating like an exchange
have i got this right feck?
Their CFO has announced that they will replace liquidity lost from their PC hike from their own sportsbook. His words not mine.
Where has he actually said this?.......I find it quite staggering if true
Where has he actually said this?.......I find it quite staggering if true
Frog, who says your salary is high by any standards? I assume we are still talking about those expected to pay the 60% PC here?
There will be people making 25k per year now having to fork out 15k of that to cover the PC.
Paying the PC on the next tier does not make your income especially high. Yes it is possible that it is, but you have to remember that a lot of plodders will be caught in the net also. People who have quietly gone about their business long term, putting in long hours making small wages for some extra money, or even living off it, now expected to trade in 25k for 10k. Not sure about you, but 10k is not a hell of a lot of money. Some are now unemployable because they have been doing this so long, and now may struggle to afford to live if they keep going let alone retire to a life of luxury ffs.
That is up there in the biggest stinkers with this PC, no matter how quick you get there, you will pay this fee, may take 3 months, may take 5 years, may take you 20 years, lifetime profit will always mean just that.
There will be people making 25k per year now having to fork out 15k of that to cover the PC.
Paying the PC on the next tier does not make your income especially high. Yes it is possible that it is, but you have to remember that a lot of plodders will be caught in the net also. People who have quietly gone about their business long term, putting in long hours making small wages for some extra money, or even living off it, now expected to trade in 25k for 10k. Not sure about you, but 10k is not a hell of a lot of money. Some are now unemployable because they have been doing this so long, and now may struggle to afford to live if they keep going let alone retire to a life of luxury ffs.
That is up there in the biggest stinkers with this PC, no matter how quick you get there, you will pay this fee, may take 3 months, may take 5 years, may take you 20 years, lifetime profit will always mean just that.
BJT
Your points about how the PC works unfairly in practice are quite correct.
I have always said that.
I think it should be revised radically.
In fact I wish the debate was solely how best that could be done.
Unfortunately the debate has been hijacked into whether BF even has the moral right to tackle the problems being posed to the exchange by a small few literally tearing the exchange apart by their overwhelming success ( I won't even say greed if that is more conciliatory and less inflammatory).
Your points about how the PC works unfairly in practice are quite correct.
I have always said that.
I think it should be revised radically.
In fact I wish the debate was solely how best that could be done.
Unfortunately the debate has been hijacked into whether BF even has the moral right to tackle the problems being posed to the exchange by a small few literally tearing the exchange apart by their overwhelming success ( I won't even say greed if that is more conciliatory and less inflammatory).
no matter how quick you get there, you will pay this fee, may take 3 months, may take 5 years, may take you 20 years,
That is the greatest inequity of the PC
That is the greatest inequity of the PC
Well we're all dead in the long run Ron.
So what is the point of doing anything ambitious or challenging at any times in our lives.
So what is the point of doing anything ambitious or challenging at any times in our lives.
I am not paying it just to make it clear, out of protest.. :P j/k, not qualified...
I just think it is so poorly thought out.
Picture this scenario. A guy with bulk money, plenty out there that love a punt, plenty that don't care. Overall losing strategy to the tune of about 10%. He bets on maybe 10 races a week, 100k average bet. He also lets his wife use his account to fill in time, but she only bets really small, she is a bigger loser.
Variance can last 1000+ races. This guy is ultimately going to be a loser averaging losing 10k per race, but after 250 markets he happens to be up a ridiculous amount of money, generating 30% charges.
He gets an email from BF explaining that now he has to pay them 40% of his profits.
He thinks **** this, I will go back to the bookies that have loved my business for the best part of 2 decades.
Now compare that with a guy sitting there studying the markets making his 25k a year barely struggling to live with no betting prowess at all.
1 on average has the potential to feed in millions per year, one is taking out pissy amounts.
Which hurts BF more?
I just think it is so poorly thought out.
Picture this scenario. A guy with bulk money, plenty out there that love a punt, plenty that don't care. Overall losing strategy to the tune of about 10%. He bets on maybe 10 races a week, 100k average bet. He also lets his wife use his account to fill in time, but she only bets really small, she is a bigger loser.
Variance can last 1000+ races. This guy is ultimately going to be a loser averaging losing 10k per race, but after 250 markets he happens to be up a ridiculous amount of money, generating 30% charges.
He gets an email from BF explaining that now he has to pay them 40% of his profits.
He thinks **** this, I will go back to the bookies that have loved my business for the best part of 2 decades.
Now compare that with a guy sitting there studying the markets making his 25k a year barely struggling to live with no betting prowess at all.
1 on average has the potential to feed in millions per year, one is taking out pissy amounts.
Which hurts BF more?
Personally, I quite relish the thought of bf operating their own sportsbook, especially if it is managed with a similar ineptitude as the exchange has been. Sadly though, given their track record, they'd probably just void winning bets or charge winning customers an ever increasing percentage, such is their apparent contempt for the users of the site.
Sorry bf, it saddens me to write such things about a company I used to love.
Sorry bf, it saddens me to write such things about a company I used to love.
Thing with the revenue if you make a profit and pay tax you'll get it back if you make subsequent losses.
The PC looks unfair to me in 3 basic ways:
1. No rebates - a good week can easily screw you.
2. Getting your winnings over say a season in the wrong sequence can be penalised whilst someobdy with the same profit as you may pay nothing.
3. BF are penalising those who have been here the longest via a lifetime account definition. The same users who made the site what it is.........
The PC looks unfair to me in 3 basic ways:
1. No rebates - a good week can easily screw you.
2. Getting your winnings over say a season in the wrong sequence can be penalised whilst someobdy with the same profit as you may pay nothing.
3. BF are penalising those who have been here the longest via a lifetime account definition. The same users who made the site what it is.........
Frog : If you an inconsistent small net winning or net losing punter, we will only take 5% of any bet amount you win.
How do you work that out Frog? More like 50% plus I would say. These are the punters that pay more than any other category.
How do you work that out Frog? More like 50% plus I would say. These are the punters that pay more than any other category.
Vis - agreed 1 and 2 but not 3.
Those who have been winning on here the longest have had the best deal , all of these would have had no p/charge for up to 7 years.
More recent winners have been saddled with this charge from the off . They're the ones to feel sorry for (if you're going to make a point) , the longest winners have had their fun in the sun and good luck to them ,no bitterness there
Those who have been winning on here the longest have had the best deal , all of these would have had no p/charge for up to 7 years.
More recent winners have been saddled with this charge from the off . They're the ones to feel sorry for (if you're going to make a point) , the longest winners have had their fun in the sun and good luck to them ,no bitterness there
Don't really understand that view on 3) coach.
New guys have a clean run at 250k to go at, those of us who have been here longer have less than 250k before we get hit.
New guys have a clean run at 250k to go at, those of us who have been here longer have less than 250k before we get hit.
Lori
25k over 10 years , minus premium charge paid over 3 years + (7 further years at NO premium charge ) Total before charges 250k
or
25k over 3 years - premium charge paid over 3 years + ( 7 further years at further premium charge rates) Total before charges 250k
That's if things stay they are .
25k over 10 years , minus premium charge paid over 3 years + (7 further years at NO premium charge ) Total before charges 250k
or
25k over 3 years - premium charge paid over 3 years + ( 7 further years at further premium charge rates) Total before charges 250k
That's if things stay they are .
not defending any charges ,merely saying that newbies who have just mastered the art of winning will still pay more in the long run
Ok, that argument makes sense.
I'm still not sure though as the goalposts moved mid-game for the "oldies" and we had no chance to lower the number of markets played or to farm out bets to other sites to stay below the threshholds.
I'm still not sure though as the goalposts moved mid-game for the "oldies" and we had no chance to lower the number of markets played or to farm out bets to other sites to stay below the threshholds.
For instance, for several years I actually had bets on Betfair which were fractionally (I'm not crazy, more than a fraction and I moved it) worse for me on here than they would be at the bookies because I wanted to support the site.
Those bets have now counted against me.
New players will not make that mistake.
Those bets have now counted against me.
New players will not make that mistake.
Agreed Lori,if you had been told about this scheme from the start you could have at least changed your betting style .
I dare say the goalposts will move again one day .
I dare say the goalposts will move again one day .
Coach
The real problem is punters whose betting style no matter how it is changed will still always produce low charges to GP ratio.
They are the ones giving BF the problems aren't they ?
The real problem is punters whose betting style no matter how it is changed will still always produce low charges to GP ratio.
They are the ones giving BF the problems aren't they ?
I'm not sure about giving problems FAFH ,because it's all about risk as well .
I take great risks to achieve my low ratio ,so potentially i could be a great asset to BF or a great liability,it all depends on unlikely sequences .
I can't speak for others of course
I take great risks to achieve my low ratio ,so potentially i could be a great asset to BF or a great liability,it all depends on unlikely sequences .
I can't speak for others of course
Coach
Runn me through that will you ?
I thought pretty much that those who somehow generate low charges/GP ratios have found a way to achieve very high strike rates.
That in turn would indicate to me very low risk strategies.
What am I getting wrong ?
Runn me through that will you ?
I thought pretty much that those who somehow generate low charges/GP ratios have found a way to achieve very high strike rates.
That in turn would indicate to me very low risk strategies.
What am I getting wrong ?
Not unless you are an out and out trader which you may be thinking ,for which i believe i'd require the appropriate software . Besides which i would find that avenue extremely tedious .
My betting relies on various strategies FAFH ,so it carries greater risk by nature .
My betting relies on various strategies FAFH ,so it carries greater risk by nature .
Coach
In the financial world generally if you spread your activities over various strategies, you are deemed to be lessening your overall risk, not increasing it.
What's the difference in gambling that way ?
In the financial world generally if you spread your activities over various strategies, you are deemed to be lessening your overall risk, not increasing it.
What's the difference in gambling that way ?
potential risk as oppose to general risk FAFH
i'd say my general risk is low but potentially very high , i also play very few markets on here compared with most full timers .
I also try to lower the risk each time at crucial/critical points and sometimes at the expense of profit (giving away a certain amount of value i'll admit )
i'd say my general risk is low but potentially very high , i also play very few markets on here compared with most full timers .
I also try to lower the risk each time at crucial/critical points and sometimes at the expense of profit (giving away a certain amount of value i'll admit )
My saving grace on here is my ability to think fast regarding permutations ,otherwise i would be a dead dog .
People forget those who make a few quid and study hard have a massive amount of overheads.
Theyt will subscribe to rp raplays they will buy the form they will travel to courses or exchange shops
if they do in running,they will buy very expensive usa form $1.50 a card.Easilily 3k a year on that one.
Also they will hedge their bets using bookies or tote if on USA horses.
These expenses receive no rebate.
Basically anyone who pays the premium charge on here will be playing for peanuts and wasted years
of your valuable short life.
Theyt will subscribe to rp raplays they will buy the form they will travel to courses or exchange shops
if they do in running,they will buy very expensive usa form $1.50 a card.Easilily 3k a year on that one.
Also they will hedge their bets using bookies or tote if on USA horses.
These expenses receive no rebate.
Basically anyone who pays the premium charge on here will be playing for peanuts and wasted years
of your valuable short life.
Coach
I don't really want to draw you into areas where you don't want to go on this , that is your key strategy, but I'm stilling having trouble just understanding generally what you're saying.
What is potential risk as opposed to general risk ?.
Risk is risk and, to me at least, it is all only ever potential until all is over one way or another.
Maybe a non giveaway type example might work here ?
I don't really want to draw you into areas where you don't want to go on this , that is your key strategy, but I'm stilling having trouble just understanding generally what you're saying.
What is potential risk as opposed to general risk ?.
Risk is risk and, to me at least, it is all only ever potential until all is over one way or another.
Maybe a non giveaway type example might work here ?
FAFH- OK, Maybe if i said i was laying the likelihood of 10 black cars driving past in a row ,now that's never likely to happen ..... but if it did i may only have a certain % bank exposed,so if it happens it's a hit but not fatal.
Now ,on another occasion i may have my full bank exposed (due to laying at perceived value) and then that could be the time that 10 black cars drive by ...in which case it would be catastrophic .
However ,after the 6th black car i could look into buying back at a serious loss , before starting again ...A serious setback, but not fatal.
The decision on the buyback depends very often on value and judgement
Now ,on another occasion i may have my full bank exposed (due to laying at perceived value) and then that could be the time that 10 black cars drive by ...in which case it would be catastrophic .
However ,after the 6th black car i could look into buying back at a serious loss , before starting again ...A serious setback, but not fatal.
The decision on the buyback depends very often on value and judgement
no worries on give aways FAFH- my own strategy is now so detailed i wouldn't undertsand it myself if i wrote it down on paper -it's evolved over 3 years according to how the markets move on here with critical timing points where i move in and out of the game , it goes a lot deeper than simply laying bets and sitting back on a profit 
That's sounds dangerous to me coach. I limit my exposure under those circumstances to about 50% of bank, in case I have a blackout or more likely Betfair simply goes down!
I agree Investor, time for a re think this new season on risk ,especially taking chances on something we may not eventually reap the benefit long term .
It must be worrying for you creeping up on the threshold Investor ?
It must be worrying for you creeping up on the threshold Investor ?
Yes coach, it brings the need for a Plan B sharply into focus.
Plan B being " How to make winning bets without making any money ?"
My opinion is that in the last two years or so Betfair have taken one step forward and two back and I believe that despite being in front on the surface they are or must actually push themselves a lot more just to remain at their current position.
Every move Betfair get wrong is another hand to 'the rest'.
I know they dedicate a huge amount of resource to developing relations and products for their future expansion into other countries but I reckon they would do well to remove all doubt from their home market first.
Every move Betfair get wrong is another hand to 'the rest'.
I know they dedicate a huge amount of resource to developing relations and products for their future expansion into other countries but I reckon they would do well to remove all doubt from their home market first.
You could very well be spot on in all that Rocket.
Nice to be able to agree with you periodically.
Let's try to do it more often ?
Shall I go first ?
Nice to be able to agree with you periodically.
Let's try to do it more often ?
Shall I go first ?
I understand what Coachbuster is talking about.
I use a hybrid of several strategies. Some of which are well know and others I've never seen mentioned here.
Which mix of strategies is pretty much a gut feel for a particular market.
What the pc did to me is make me take substantially more risk.
For example in soccer over/under markets I'd rarely have an exposure over $200, whereas now I regularly go up toward $1k.
I use a hybrid of several strategies. Some of which are well know and others I've never seen mentioned here.
Which mix of strategies is pretty much a gut feel for a particular market.
What the pc did to me is make me take substantially more risk.
For example in soccer over/under markets I'd rarely have an exposure over $200, whereas now I regularly go up toward $1k.
All this talk about churning to reduce PC.
You still have to churn at breakeven or at best very low GP margins, to get you charges to GP ratio high enough to ameliorate PC, don't you ?.
If so, you have to pretty darn good to be able to play around at will with your playing strategies to achieve pre-conceived or pre-set GP margins ?.
Only those with bots running very high trading frequency strategies surely have any conceivable chance of doing this ?.
You still have to churn at breakeven or at best very low GP margins, to get you charges to GP ratio high enough to ameliorate PC, don't you ?.
If so, you have to pretty darn good to be able to play around at will with your playing strategies to achieve pre-conceived or pre-set GP margins ?.
Only those with bots running very high trading frequency strategies surely have any conceivable chance of doing this ?.
A 1% margin is enough to make churning worthwhile for a pc payer.
But it is a pain in the rear.
But it is a pain in the rear.
FINE AS FROG HAIR
Date Joined: 12 Mar 07
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When: 12 Jul 11 22:56
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Date Joined: 12 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 3,161 | Blogger: FINE AS FROG HAIR's blog
Plan B being " How to make winning bets without making any money ?"
Plan B being " How to make money in another way, completely unrelated to Betfair "
Date Joined: 12 Mar 07
Add contact | Send message
When: 12 Jul 11 22:56
Joined:
Date Joined: 12 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 3,161 | Blogger: FINE AS FROG HAIR's blog
Plan B being " How to make winning bets without making any money ?"
Plan B being " How to make money in another way, completely unrelated to Betfair "
To everything - churn, churn, churn
There is a season - churn, churn, churn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
To everything - churn, churn, churn
There is a season - churn, churn, churn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
Etc etc
With respect to The Byrds
There is a season - churn, churn, churn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
To everything - churn, churn, churn
There is a season - churn, churn, churn
And a time for every purpose under heaven
Etc etc
With respect to The Byrds
A time to be back, a time to lay
A time to seed, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to fill
A time to cancel, a time to keep
A time to seed, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to fill
A time to cancel, a time to keep
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