Betduck warning

If it weren't for the visible bets on betdak I'd have this down as a perfectly timed smear


but clearly something weird has happened. I suggest you say nothing more to them and see what they do next.

And get a screenshot.

sry before i seen your figs.

jail??? wtf!

all the fraud threat nonsense... etc..

if they dont give me my money back i might be going to jail for murder tbf

Sounds like bd are a bit heavy handed when it comes to customer relations, but everything you've said Sideshowbob sounds above board, so just take some deep breaths while they look in to it. Don't let them off with a money back offer though, you've done nothing wrong, take what you're due, anything less would be wrong.

The only non PC thread on here, and it's a horror story.
Sideshow
If you've really done nothing wrong, and can hold on without an immediate refund, then just sit tight and insist on being paid out in full.
Prices are there to be taken and that's all you did apparently.

yeah that looks like **** bot gone wrong. looks like you have got caught up in their overnight "ghost seeding".

have a look at the horse racing markets to get an idea of what they do, essentially overnight they will seed a market with approx £20k worth of transaction to make it look "active"

sideshowbob, I wouldn't be overly worried about this. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, even not being able to discuss it with you.

I would ask them when the investigation is expected to be completed and what the procedure is with regard to returning your funds and settling the bets. They should at least be able to tell you that.

sideshowbob, good luck with this.  In my experience **** are not an open exchange like betfair, they have preferred customers and allegedly play markets themselves.  This must make situations like this difficult for them to handle.

This probably doesn't help but I am a bot operator on here and an error in the betfair market details caused my bot to go bonkers one morning and some happy chappy helped themselves to 3k of my bank.  I asked bf to void the markets because they had been unfairly manipulated but they weren't interested, the bets placed were my responsibility.  I think this was a fair decision and it certainly resulted in some further safety checks being added!!

They haven't got a leg to stand on if you ask me.  It's obviously their seeding bot that's made a costly mistake due to its poor programming.  If it was another customer's bets they wouldn't give a toss but their seeding bot is quite vulnerable to getting cleaned up like this.
I had a very similar situation with them a while back.  I was warned for "offering bets that were out of line with market prices" and had some voided "to protect other users".  The funny thing was that the phone rang within 30 seconds of the bets being placed, so it was obviously their own bets, not another customer's.

I can understand them trying to protect their operation, while seeding the markets to offer a viable alternative to bf and with the current PC hike, I'll need the d a q more than ever. When you throw in 2.5% comm instead of 60%, I'm prepared to forgive them quite a lot.

About the difference matched on bf and daq dont the calculate it in 2 ways  if I bet 10£ on daq @ odds 300 then they show 3K matched on the market  bf shows 10£

Likewise for low odds, grombad. £1k at 1.01 shows as £2k matched here but only £1010 matched there.
fwiw, I think their calculation method gives the true matched figure.  As such large amounts are often traded IR sub 1.1 and the majority of the betting is on the favourite, it's actually bf that shows an unrealistically high matched figure.

As has been said, it's probably someone else's bot gone haywire, meaning vastly more money than they would ever expect to see matched being traded, thus triggering off a money laundering warning. For heaven sake don't ask for the bets to be voided, just wait a few days, saying it will be completed next week is hardly unreasonable.

@ 1.01 layer 

i would say bf is more easy and true to see what is matched just divide by 2
on daq the money matched is impossible to see as its multiplied by the odds bet on so a 100£ bet on a odds 1000 will allready show 100k matched even only 100£ has been bet

Could be the OP has matched one of BD's own bots gone rogue.
I'm convinced BD arb between their site and here.

mmmmm

I've done things like back a 35 shot at 1.03 by clicking the wrong selection in a two runner market, instantly losing thousands. I'm actually a little surprised that Betfair don't look into this kind of stuff as it surely looks very strange.

I'm fairly confident you will be ok, and I think the chance is high you'll get your winnings along with your stake back.

Please keep us posted!

Knight Commander
Date Joined: 05 May 04
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When: 02 Jul 11 14:22
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Could be the OP has matched one of BD's own bots gone rogue.
I'm convinced BD arb between their site and here.


I don't know why everyone's always saying that. I haven't seen evidence of that, but I'd like to hear why you think that this is the case.

I believe there's a small number of bot operators doing this arbing independently. The reason I think this is that **** encourages winners to offer prices and penalises them for taking prices. With the new charging structure they introduced.

So they think people are profiting too much by taking out of date prices. Exactly the opposite of Betfair where most big winners offer more than take.

Also, when **** introduced their own total goals market labeled as 'goals scored', I was comparing prices, and there was virtually no arbing going on, so I was able to profit from price discrepancies betting manually.

They don't seem to offer this market anymore.

****= purple of course

TheInvestor2     02 Jul 11 14:35 
I don't know why everyone's always saying that. I haven't seen evidence of that, but I'd like to hear why you think that this is the case.

Because when I look at their site the prices on offer are nearly always worse than on here - both backing and laying. Can't do much to attract trade so leads me to the above conclusion.

any news on this?  I would hope that you just had to wait for the relevant people to come to work on the Monday and everything would be sorted (and honoured).

V interested to hear the outcome

sideshowbob seems to have the appropiate username. Not the sharpest tool in the box. Scaremongering imo.

*0r a BF plant....

this is a pearoast of a thread started on chit-chat.

there was another contribution from JBHA, who i have absolutely no reason to doubt.

JamesBlakesHugeArse 03 Jul 11 07:31 
Bob and others interested

A few weeks ago a bot went crazy on an asian champ league game, offering ridiculous odds, quickly racking up a +40k liability.  I, along with several others who I know, took the majority and daq then suspended the market. This was about an hour before the match started - they were 'conducting an investigation'

Market was reopened 5 minutes before kick off and we were assured that bets would stand, and there was mayhem as people tried to cover their bets.

Daq didnt pay out for another 24 hours, they apparently launched another investigation into what went on and we were being told by clueless customer service they had no idea what was going on with the bets - I was sitting on a 5 figure loss if they had voided. A couple of days after paying they closed my account.

I have had a lot of bets voided by then due to, as Jack said, incorrect setting of market, but there was no argument here, no way they could escape it - it was simply a bot gone wrong. I am almost certain that it was their own bot, they were transposing odds from an asian site when something happened - this is the only possible explanation for their behaviour, the long investigation, the closing of my account.  They must have gone down every avenue in an attempt to wriggle out and **** us over.

Do not trust them, do not take odds that appear too good to be true, they are seeding their markets.  I have also had an unsuccessful appeal to IBAS

Betfair have voided markets for exactly the same reason.

If the market is set up correctly, you have no worries, as gambling wagers are legally binding on all parties, including an exchange where it is placed, if they are seeding the markets that is their concern.

In this situation, and clearly bearing in mind the sums of money involved, taking a screenshot of the display and emailing it to yourself (to prove the time it was showing) is an absolute MUST.

Obviously if it was set up wrongly (eg, different teams, incorrect kick off time, wrong side shown playing at home, etc), then that is a different matter and voiding is naturally correct.

Sure Knight Rider, but I reckon this is just API users trying to profit by grabbing price info from Betfair and seeding purple, I haven't seen any evidence they are doing this themselves.

im not joking, trolling or whatever.

and still no word from them at all. im fed up with it, trying not to think about it.
there may be thousands at stake here, most of it my own money, but i have far more important things to worry about right now.
theyre obviously taking ages deliberately, whatever they do theres no way id ever bet with them ever again. the whole thing is beyond a joke.

as far as seeding, my guess is its about 99% certain theyre seeding the markets. thats why theyre trying to squirm out of it by making me look bad. like i said before, if they are investigating all customers who have a position in the market then how come the person laying the bets is still laying prices and their account hasnt been suspended like mine??? its fairly obvious theres only been one layer in the market all season imo. if id known they were a bookmakers and not a betting exchange then i would never have used them in the first place.

Make sure you post when you are told the outcome sideshowbob. Like I said, I think you have a very reasonable chance to get both your funds and your winnings. Either way, I along with many others would like to hear about it.

Following this investigation and as per our terms and conditions highlighted below we have voided all orders placed by all members from (ive deleted the date)

You can now access your **** account to withdraw funds available to you at this time. We will look to return funds to your registered card in the next 24 hours if you haven’t already done so.

Any further funds due to you following settlement of your outstanding markets will be returned to you with 36 hours of market settlement.

Once all withdrawals have been completed your account membership with **** will be terminated under our terms and conditions highlighted below

No further correspondence will be entered into in this matter.

Are you willing to say which T+C you were accused of breaking or would you rather end the thread there?

Bit of a shocker,imo. . . . . . .

they dont say. because i obviously havent broke any of them.

9 Suspension and termination

We reserve the right to refuse to register an applicant or to suspend and/or terminate a Member's registration and Member's Account at our absolute discretion and with no obligation to provide Members with any reasons for so doing.

Without restricting our ability to rely on other remedies that may be available to us, we will suspend or terminate Members' Accounts or cancel any unmatched offers at our absolute discretion if: (i) we suspect that Members are acting other than on their own behalf or otherwise in concert with others or engaging in illegal or fraudulent activity while using the **** Services; (ii) we suspect that Members are breaching any terms of this Agreement; (iii) we suspect that Members are acting in a manner that is detrimental to the conduct of ****'s business; (iv) we suspect that Members may be having difficulties obtaining credit; (v) we suspect that it is illegal for a Member to participate in the Exchange, (vi) we are unable to verify registered address or contact telephone number, or (vii) we are required to do so by law.

thats from the email btw.

im not going to make any other comment, there really isnt anything i need to say. theyve pretty much said how they see their customers themselves...

reason number (iii) i would imagine.

Cheers bob.

Look this is the problem in their eyes.You took the value odds that where on offer and won.
The value odds offered where layed by their own bots.
Therefore you are a winner and they have lost not their customers.
So similair to the welshing baldy fredrico bookies they don't want to pay you out.
I promise you that you WILL be paid.
But they just want to put the heat on you as they are so mad that
they newly written bots will have to be turned off and you
are the reason they had to do that.
It stinks.You are treat like a criminal when youshould be applauded at picking winning selections.

i wont get paid, the matter is closed and i have no intention of following it up.

anybody still insist they dont seed their own markets because they dont have any real customers??

Anyone remember Sporting Options? I found it a better site than BF and could get my football bets matched.  Unfortunately it went under when it turned out the owners lost all their money seeding it.

Dont see any reason why you wont get paid in full.

That's very surprising and poor form from Betdakk. Not sure what they're thinking.

Email them back and ask them to tell you specifically what happened.

This is surely the one time they don't want a load of bad press on their competitors forum. Idiots.

Betfair and Betdakk must employ the same PR company.

bob, this thread has been really useful. i was on the brink of opening an account with them too...as i am so frustrated at the bf commission rates.
you have been robbed imo and i would not let it drop if i was you.

viva el presidente!     01 Jul 11 23:13 
complete joke of a firm. you could almost believe they were secretly owned by BF to prove how impossible it is to run a decent rival exchange.
_________________________________
Makes you wonder

Disgusting closing the account.
They are no better than the high street boys closing your account for betting on a rick.
It's a fukkinn betting exchange !
What are we supposed to do next time we place a bet, think oooh that price looks too good to be true,it must be a rick, better not bet on that.

agree totally with phil. cannot see how they can get away with this - surely the art of making money from betting is picking value winners at value prices - now we have to figure out if it's too good a value and consequently a rick, so cannot take the price. absolute joke

just closed my account, thanks for the heads up

they even voided 3k's worth of bets on one team where i was 3k red on all other selections.

yet conveniently havent voided bets on the same markets where im all red. draw your own conclusions!

Tell them that you will take them to court unless they pay what they owe you. And do so.

You WILL be paid, one way or another.

Isn't it amazing the horror stories from **** whenever Betfair announce bad news?

The propaganda workforce in overtime.

sideshow do you have any screenshots yet?

And have **** mentioned why they have suspended your account?

Isn't it amazing the horror stories from **** whenever Betfair announce bad news?

The propaganda workforce in overtime.


Or you could take a look at the market in question and see the evidence for yourself before you accuse someone of lying...

Yes, you can certainly see the evidence from the huge bets matched compared with the other divisions.

Betduck do this quite often it is their seeding of the market imo,I was also heavily on James Blakes match so I sweated for 24hrs too.Please note they are a bunch of Irish pikeys so can't be trusted.

When you put it like that it's difficult to disagree.

Oh FFS< why can't there be a proper competitor to Betfair, one who believes in the ethos of punters exchanging bets through an exchange, instead of one who believes that all monies r belong to us.

I would just like to point out an important fact. Purple are monitoring this very thread as I speak. (I jest not)

They are indeed on the forum today, for a reason.

Good stuff.

* I would just like to add that I do love Irish pikeys.

lol

dya like daqs?

Sideshow....Are you saying that you undertook a market strategy and when BetDuck decided that their bots had made mistakes that they only refunded the parts of your strategy that are guaranteed Winners but are keeping your money on the other guaranteed losing teams that formed part of the same market strategy ?

Surely this can't be right ?

That alone is poor practice.

But they then suspended his account and refused to engage in correspondence.


Personally I am surprised at that. There is either more to the story or Betdakk have taken a funny turn.

If everything is as you say, all you need to do is take them to court and sue for your winnings. With that sort of money involved, why on earth wouldn't you?

Now all this, if true, really is all a bit of a turn up.
Really does throw the cat into the pigeons.
BF must be positively salivating, which is probably in no punter's favour tbh.

This really is disgraceful.

How can anyone do business with these Johnnies?

Closed account.

Hard luck man looks like you've been royally screwed over by them.

From what you've said I'd take a guess that they are seeding alot more markets than people think and that one of their bots went a bit haywire on this occasion and allowed you to take of advantage the prices.

I'd be looking to see if there was significant price changes on whatever site they use to price their markets during this period and if so it would easily explain their bot throwing up odd prices.

The thing is MP, who or what's to say it won't happen repeatedly to anybody else, equally as innocent as the OP apparently is ?
As someone else said on here, is it a case of if it looks too good to be true then it probably isn't true.
If so, then it all becomes a bit iffy and subjective, doesn't it ?
Not a scenario I would like to be betting in tbh .

sideshowbob 06 Jul 11 10:57 

"i wont get paid, the matter is closed and i have no intention of following it up"

Anyone else smell a rat here? Someone has supposedly been screwed out of several k and he won't do anything about it Despite gambling wagers being legally binding

Yeah i know what you mean Frogs.

I do minimal betting with them these days tbh and after reading this thread i'll prob continue to do so.

Turtle
Apparently he's too busy doing up his flat.
Bit hard to believe tbh.
But the rest of the story does seem to check out superficially at least, don't you think ?

Yes, as stated previously the amounts matched are there for all to see.

But anyone who has acted honestly would certainly take the matter further, unless he has so much money that he simply doesn't care.

My bet would be on money laundering.

no way would i give up a £2-£3K green position on a market without
a fight.

sounds totally unlawful what they've done if true.

Btw I also think he can lie. Why this thing happen right now when everyone started to talk about ****? Is Betfair afraid and just make some false-reports!?!? I know a lot of people betting on **** no one ever said something about account closures.

It would be, if everything he says is true and he is not missing anything out. Which makes Froggy and myself think that all is not what it seems...

to Lix.

lol people are so naive.

if you think im a betfair plant then read my views on the premium charges.

if you think im lying then look at the money matched, it was high as other people verified when i posted this. and now almost all of the money matched has gone, because of voided bets.

yes i had thousands green, but not a huge amount to me. significant, but not huge. not sure overall but probably 5k. i am busy with so many different things.

i didnt want to say earlier, but i dont have any screenshots of the bets so my evidence is virtually zero. i have taken screenshots now of my new current positions and bets in case they dont refund me on those. most are reds, but still should have significant returns ie one division is red for hundreds on the teams likely to win it, but red for thousands on teams who have next to no chance. if they dont repay that money when the bets end, then i will take legal action.

im not being funny but people have different situations. i have plenty of money in the bank to not worry about what has happened, whereas i have lots of health issues and stress. plus extra stress right now from doing my flat up like i said.i dont see the point in making my life even more stressful unless absolutely necessary.

lol, so a company has "supposedly" ripped you of for thousands, and you "don't need the stress" about getting it back.

I can't imagine you are very successfull with your betting if you are prepared to wave goodbye to such big sums without a fight when they have "supposedly" been taken from you illegally.

You would prefer to do your flat up instead of reclaiming what is rightfuly yours.

What a total load of cobblers.

ok so if youre so smart dickhead, how come there was 220k or whatever it was matched when i started this thread, and now theres 8k matched on it? come on clever ****

let me guess, it was taken by the money matched fairies?

**** this, believe what you want to believe. bet with them, get screwed over, then cry about it cos youre broke. i dont give a ****.

Timing of this story is very unfortunate for betdack and oh so convenient for Betfair. Isn't that a coincidental piece of luck for this exchange and bad luck for its main competitor. In the 7 years I have been reading this forum i've never heard the name of betdack blackened so much as I have on this thread.

Sideshow
I wouldn't go so far to say that you are making all this up to blacken the rep. of a BF competitor.
But I do, however, find it very hard and, tbh quite astounding, that any such competitor would act in such blatant self-interesed manner, particularly at this specific moment in time.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot wouldn't even come close to describing such an action.

the point is it isnt my money, if it was my money of course id ****g sue them. but its not. its theirs. their system **** up offering wrong prices, i took advantage and they welched on it. its as simple as that. i havent lost anything. im still in the same position as i was beforehand. im a gambler, things go right and things go wrong. christ ive lost 5k on one bet before now. im not going to cry over a bookie welching on 5k that was never mine in the first place.

sorry for trying to help people, by warning them about what goes on there. jeez fook mi. see this is why people never bother saying anything, and why bookies keep getting away with treating punters like ****. cos nobody believes them. i suppose the fact sid janes and b365 have banned me for winning too much is made up to is it? bookies love punters, cos theyre as thick as some of you here have shown. you believe in the ****g tooth fairy too no doubt.

and fwiw i think the betfair premium charge is an absolute disgrace.

i said as much on the other thread. betfair plant?? idiots. fkn idiots.

ive bet with them about 2 years without a problem. im not saying everything is wrong. if you bet normally you probably will never have a problem.

but if theres prices that are out of line, and you take them. expect to be accused of fraud. have your account suspended. have your bets voided. have you account closed. without them ever even being willing to speak to you at any stage. if thats the type of company you want to bet with, then good luck with that. believe it, dont believe it. i dont care. people on this thread saw the amount matched was over 200k when i started this thread, now its less than 8k. if that isnt proof i have no idea what is.

ive had enough of talking about this its doing my head in now, in the words of their "customer service"

No further correspondence will be entered into in this matter.

Calm down SSB :)

I can understand you not wanting any hassle, nobody wants hassle, but if it was me I would take this as far as I could without spending too much time on it.

If all you did was take the bets on offer, then the fact is you've been screwed over, please don't let them get away with that without some sort of fight.

Perhaps punters who've been in similar situations can list a course of action you should take, i.e. contacting betting authorities, legal bods, etc, and perhaps some media would be interested in the story.

You mustn't just roll over SSB.

What I personally find strange is that there is no mention of this case in the Betquack forum and no mention in this thread of being banned in the forum ...

Why giving the punters over here a warning and not to the punters over there?

Several years ago on here there was a horse racing market where when of the horses was a definate non-runner. It had a reduction factor of zero. Someone's robot did not read the reduction factors and thought there was an overbroke book. A huge amount was bet overnight compared to usual. I cannot remember if Betfair voided the market in the morning or not. Sounds similar to this. Anyone remember the case?

http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59108#post59108
I suggest you may want to read carefully this thread and stop speculations about ****!

I'm with Bob - there are more important things than money, especially when it
was still in the pot. His story seems to be totally genuine in my opinion. You
all saw the matched figures at the purple place... and their disappearance. He
either has a crystal ball or he's telling the truth.

Good luck with yer flat Bob.

i can easily believe ssb.

anyone who has traded any cricket and built up a healthy green only for the match to be tied or built up a zero liability green on the jolly romping home in a tennis match, only for them to pick up an injury and retire (unless it's that sl@g azarenka) probably doesn't find it too unfamiliar or uncomfortable to walk away from "lost profit". the values required to really sting are of course dependent on the individual's normal betting stakes.

DStyle
Surely the real debate here is as to why he lost it ?
There's a pretty question on the basic honesty of the exchange operators invoved here.
Don't you agree with that ?

it wouldn't surprise me if they are seeding their own markets: they're just acting like any other bookmaker would.

i'm just saying that i don't see any reason to doubt him based on the fact he's reluctant to persue.

It does look like a genuine story to me.

I'll still be using betduck whenever possible though.

Either run the risk of getting screwed by betduck once.
Or getting screwed by betfair every week.

A no brainer for me.

WHat mean getting screwed ? Are you reading what I wrote? No one is screwed actually!!!!!
http://www.geekstoy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5709
This guy took 9k From Betdakkk. They suspended the market and after that they honored his bet! Come on what about read what I write?!

Anti advertisement doesn't work when its not fully true FHA?!

Oh excuse me! He took 18k out of them!

OK, true.
Screwed probably the wrong word.
Took advantage of betducks (or a valued customers) mistake and had their account closed because of it.

The HS do it all the time.

But if someone makes a mistake on an exchange and lays at well over the odds then it should stand.
I'm sure we've all cocked up at times and I wouldn't expect to be refunded.

ssb - if you dont want to take it any further how about i do it on your behalf and we go 50/50 on what we get back

I've been told my job is relocating abroad and i'm not going with it so not only will i need some money i will also have time on my hands