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If you're one of the Betfair 480, what do you intend to do next?
If you're one of the Betfair 480, what do you intend to do next?
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Replies: 278
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If was startng with a fresh account now I could make the 250 markets threshold last about 10 years with only a very small, if any drop in my potential profit.
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Hmmm, i don't like the way they list the away team and their potential score in a home winning format
e.g the away team here listed as Standard Liege 3-2 alongside the home team Anderlecht 3-2 Looks like it's aimed at someone who's been on the juice  |
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FWIW I'm not sure I like it either but that's because I stare at Betfair a lot more than anywhere else.
I think the purple system actually makes more sense, although I see what you're saying now too. Interesting how we can't even agree (we as a group, not you and I) on the best way to lay out some numbers.. no surprise that there are debates over bigger issues! |
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Yes indeedy , guess i use this site a lot more so have become used to it too
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Re Lori's last post.
Maybe also that's why BF mgt.ignores, or seems to ignore, any and everything said on the forums. |
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Lori
Date Joined: 20 Apr 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jul 11 19:22 Joined: Date Joined: 20 Apr 04 | Topic/replies: 35,685 | Blogger: Lori's blog Correct scores are more logical on the daq tbf, always wondered why betfair don't copy them! It doesn't really matter. Betfair is the standard, and **** should adopt the standard. It's not good to use their layout when it is different from that of Betfair, even if it is better. Just like everyone continues to use QWERTY keyboards instead of Dvorak even though the latter is clearly superior. If you were a large computer manufacturer, you'd be a fool to supply your units with a 'superior' dvorak keyboard instead of a QWERTY one. |
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Investor surely you're not suggessting they should become BF 2 ?
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Sorry Investor 2.
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Point taken, although the Dvorak thing is likely a myth.
(I recently looked into switching!) . http://www.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html |
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I agree with Investor ,have one set common layout .... stubbornness has its price
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It does make sense, I'm converted.
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It is 8 years since I first had a bot on Betfair. I loved it like a child loves its favourite toy. Ok it took a long time before it made any money but it was great fun.
Now I am about to get one for another site, and I am looking forward to it like a child looking forward to Christmas. |
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Btw getting better, there is no Santa Claus.
Haven't you just found that out on BF ? |
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There is a god of betfair though, he can be very cruel, but usually he is kind. Sometimes when you are drunk he takes all your money away late at night, to punish you, but he usually gives it back within a week or two.
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Do the easy math and you will know the pc customers cannot make it pay.
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You should brush up on your maths [:p]
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Lori
Date Joined: 20 Apr 04 Add contact | Send message When: 09 Jul 11 22:15 Joined: Date Joined: 20 Apr 04 | Topic/replies: 35,690 | Blogger: Lori's blog It does make sense, I'm converted.  By the way, the world's fastest typist uses Dvorak. Enough to convince me! [;)] |
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I'm wondering how hard it would be to switch back if I struggle. I don't really want to mess up 25 years of ingrained qwerty, but on the other hand, if it's faster, that would be nice.
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Lori, my tip would be to use both hands [;)]
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According to the terms.betfair.com site, it says that if I was considered to have always paid a PC of 40%, my total charges would be ..."42.4% of your lifetime gross profits at this time. Therefore, you will not incur Premium Charges until you have won at least £25331.89."
Does anyone know how what this £25k number represents? Is it gross or net profits or something else? |
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Mr Magoo, catfloppo reckons they calculate what you would have paid on a week by week basis so the cushion is dependent on the sequence of your results. e.g. if you won every week for 5 years and then lost every week for 5 years you'd have a massive cushion.
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It is a shame that they don't publish these week-by-week numbers anywhere, I've got no real idea how much I'm going to end up paying when the changes come in.
I'm on 33.9% total charges right now, a simple view would be that I'm going to hit for another 6.1%. However, it's that sequence of results factor that could hurt. Paying PC on the winning weeks and no comeback on the losing weeks means that it will likely be much more than a 6% cost. I'm far behind on the PC discussion anyway, since I've been away for a while. Will have to try and phone BF and reach a clued-up person there to explain the fine details. |
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I think betfair must believe their own forum. To assume that once someone's in front they're always gong to be in front is ridiculous. Some form of rebate is necessary. I've already suggested the following but have yet to hear from them.
After each market they update your lifetime profit, commission generated and deduct / rebate an amount such that your total pc paid is up to date. In order to combat evasion (e.g. losing all your profits to a non-pc account to get a large rebate) they could make the maximum rebate per market equal to the average commission paid per market over the lifetime of your account. That would mean if you'd paid 15K in pc's and your average commission paid per market was £5 you'd have to lose in 3,000 markets to get that 15K back. That would give betfair more than enough time to close the account if they think someone's at it. When you think about it, had they done this in the first place they might have escaped a lot of the flak the pc brought on them. Having a lump deducted on a Wednesday probably magnified the bad feeling about the charge several times over. The fact betfair never even considered this effect shows how out of touch their ex-city boys are with the realities of dealing with ordinary punters. |
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I'm guessing that this 42.4% figure that they quote for me is the effect of the 40% charge combined with the no rebates, i.e. 40% on winnings together with no refunds for the losing weeks, means overall I will pay 42.4%
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What it means is they're assuming you've paid 42.4% so far, not that you will pay 42.4%.
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Following last weeks activity I'm dead on 40% (portal previously showing 40.4%)
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Mr Magoo, it means that you won't pay any to begin with, it will kick in when (or if) your lifetime rate falls below 40%. The 25k is the amount you can win without incurring pc assuming a perfect run - the likelihood is you will win much more before you hit 40%.
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Yes, I get the idea of it being the 'breathing room' before I would start paying the new PC (PC version 3.0 according to Betfair!) I was unsure where exactly the 42.4% bit came from, and whether the £25k is gross or net profit. (Turns out it is gross profit)
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Astonishing really that even after two years we don't have any screen on BF which shows us on a market by market or day by day basis where we are with respect to paying (or buffer zone) on the current PC, never mind once the new set of charges kick in
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Astonishing really that even after two years we don't have any screen on BF which shows us on a market by market or day by day basis where we are with respect to paying (or buffer zone) on the current PC, never mind once the new set of charges kick in
PC calculations are completely separate from the main site's profit, commision, etc calculations. At first I thought this was because the pc was rushed and didn't have time to put it into the main site. I now realize its because bf think the pc is legally dodgy and they may have to drop it at short notice should they lose a court case. BTW, IMO as a professional software developer the Purple place's interface is far superior to bf's. |
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Doesn't make it right though pxb that we users have to keep our own spreadsheet if we want to be on top of a running total.
Mind you, we can't even see basic info such as bets matched or P&L across our main wallet and Aussie wallet at the same time on the same screen so I guess should hardly be surprised they never managed to give us a live PC estimator |
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Well time for me to move on now. I used to market make in illiquid markets, but as of now with a 60% rate of PC if I had a really good year I might make minumum wage. I think 20% was an equitable arrangement for PC, although I would obviously of preferred to be without it. 60% PC without rebates for losing weeks may as well be 95% as far as I am concerned.
I'm kind of sad to be moving on, but at the same time excited by moving on to something new, I know not what. Thanks for the good time betfair, the dream of winning money here for many is now gone. |
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TheVis, the neglect of the exchange software (longstanding problems are not being fixed) is rather obvious to someone like me.
Pretty much all of their development budget will be going into one failed project after another (poker, arcade, virtual horse racing etc) in a desperate bid to find growth somewhere. Now they have gone one step further and are grafting a bookmaking site on to the exchange and just creating a confusing mess. BF won't be the first company to have scroowed the pooch through neglect of their core succeful product. |
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At first I thought this was because the pc was rushed and didn't have time to put it into the main site.
I now realize its because bf think the pc is legally dodgy and they may have to drop it at short notice should they lose a court case. Seems more likely that they don't want non-payers to worry about the likelihood of becoming payers. That someone like me who will inevitably fulfil the criteria for the 60% pc at some time in the future can't get easy access to my figures at the terms page because I don't yet have to pay is ludicrous. As someone who knows the score (much more so than the bloke who replied to my first email to the help desk about it) and is regularly paying the 20% pc I feel that I should be kept much better informed. |
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TheVis 13 Jul 11 18:19
Astonishing really that even after two years we don't have any screen on BF which shows us on a market by market or day by day basis where we are with respect to paying (or buffer zone) on the current PC, never mind once the new set of charges kick in Cry i built a small application that allows me to see this, i.e. i know exactly how much i'm due to pay (or not) on any selected time period. (goes through the free API) i took about a day and a half (whilst doing other stuff) to build; that's the sort of development effort betfair aren't prepared to devote to their PC payers  happy to distribute it later on if anyone wants it, but i'll have to update it for the new rates. |
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betfair can't have any more ads saying that a punter would get better value betting horse A then at other bookmakers
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Of course they can, this doesn't affect the average punter.
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charlatan,
Can you access the other premium charge page? https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myaccount/premiumcharge/summary.html This gives the % charges figures and always used to be accessible by non-PC payers (I doubt that it has been updated to the new rates though) |