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i see. it seems like most of the forum is discussing the PC hike. i assumed they were all paying it. as im not paying it, i welcome it
Well paulme, when you finally find an edge (can I suggest Dover) take froggy with you and jump right off!!
So many people on this forum have been accommodated by those in the know and been given the time of day to find their stance on the exchange. You and froggy have just irked people to the point where they are blocking your posts!
So many people on this forum have been accommodated by those in the know and been given the time of day to find their stance on the exchange. You and froggy have just irked people to the point where they are blocking your posts!
never heard of you but what's your problem please?
how do you mean people on the forum have been accomodated by those in the know?
how?
how do you mean people on the forum have been accomodated by those in the know?
how?
paulme
as im not paying it, i welcome it
Tactics not your strong point either.
as im not paying it, i welcome it
Tactics not your strong point either.
so baldy, how do you mean people on the forum have been accomodated by those in the know?
paulme
never heard of you but what's your problem please?
how do you mean people on the forum have been accomodated by those in the know?
how?
Ha ha. Your first question has already been answered many times.
As for the second comment, see my above post.
You see, its all been answered before. You have no experience here yet you go around calling people 'son', 'young un' and generally showing yourself up. At least on frogs account there is an attempt to appear articulate and educated on the matters at hand.
Most people started out just like you, not having a clue (this time I mean no offence). They worked hard on their own to figure out the ins and outs of the exchange. If I walked into a window supplier shop and asked them how to make windows, they would tell me (kindly or not) to go jump. Tactfully, you could get them to reveal everything about the manufacturing process. Until you learn this, people will see straight through you.
never heard of you but what's your problem please?
how do you mean people on the forum have been accomodated by those in the know?
how?
Ha ha. Your first question has already been answered many times.
As for the second comment, see my above post.
You see, its all been answered before. You have no experience here yet you go around calling people 'son', 'young un' and generally showing yourself up. At least on frogs account there is an attempt to appear articulate and educated on the matters at hand.
Most people started out just like you, not having a clue (this time I mean no offence). They worked hard on their own to figure out the ins and outs of the exchange. If I walked into a window supplier shop and asked them how to make windows, they would tell me (kindly or not) to go jump. Tactfully, you could get them to reveal everything about the manufacturing process. Until you learn this, people will see straight through you.
Most people started out just like you, not having a clue (this time I mean no offence). They worked hard on their own to figure out the ins and outs of the exchange. If I walked into a window supplier shop and asked them how to make windows, they would tell me (kindly or not) to go jump. Tactfully, you could get them to reveal everything about the manufacturing process. Until you learn this, people will see straight through you.
Are you suggesting that he stops people seeing right through him by learning about the manufacture of windows?
Are you suggesting that he stops people seeing right through him by learning about the manufacture of windows?
anyway i dont get you ex-baldy, ive never heard of or spoke to you yet you write this:
Ha ha. Your first question has already been answered many times.
do you stalk me? quietly observe me from afar?
also are you suggesting us noobs should feel priveleged to be accomodated (whatever that menas) by you betfair veterans on here?
Ha ha. Your first question has already been answered many times.
do you stalk me? quietly observe me from afar?
also are you suggesting us noobs should feel priveleged to be accomodated (whatever that menas) by you betfair veterans on here?
I observe everything. Don't kid yourself.
Read my reply again. Its not about privileges, but then I didn't expect you to understand anyway.
Catflappo has the right idea. If you can't make the fools understand, make them laugh instead.
Read my reply again. Its not about privileges, but then I didn't expect you to understand anyway.
Catflappo has the right idea. If you can't make the fools understand, make them laugh instead.
why this unfriendliness? what's your problem?
explain how new users have been "accomodated"? what have you done that's so great?
explain how new users have been "accomodated"? what have you done that's so great?
I think you will find that i am trying to do you a favour. I have already explained the accommodation issue.
By the way, the joke in the window scenario was there for all to see, but you needed it pointing out to you. Does this not tell you that there are some basic skills that need learning first before you can be responsible with money?
By the way, the joke in the window scenario was there for all to see, but you needed it pointing out to you. Does this not tell you that there are some basic skills that need learning first before you can be responsible with money?
haha you dont even know me. you really are a rude, unfriendly runt aren't you.
how are you doing me a favour? how are betfair veterans accomodating us young colts? you really are a pompous, self-deluded fool arent you baldloaf
how did i need the window joke pointing out to me? i just laughed at catfloppo.
idiot.
how are you doing me a favour? how are betfair veterans accomodating us young colts? you really are a pompous, self-deluded fool arent you baldloaf
how did i need the window joke pointing out to me? i just laughed at catfloppo.
idiot.
There is no point attempting to have a discussion of a reasonable level with this degenerate,absoulte fool.As is evident on this thread and many others he cant pick up on basic things even when pointed out to him over and over again.He also lacks understanding of basic English.Post anything he doesnt like and his childlike mentality has him hopping off the report button and getting comments and threads removed.Love the comment about Dover being the edge for him so true
ah wondered when this slug would creep out from under his stone
talking like that when all ive done is try to learn about gambling. there really are some nasty, pathetic guys on this forum
baldloaf, how very easy it is for to claim now that it was your joke all along [;)]
exactly. i thought that
baldloaf EXPOSED
what a despisable creature he is
baldloaf EXPOSED
what a despisable creature he is
In response to the initial question, I think betfair have taken an outrageous liberty and it's a pretty disgusting course of action.
From a purely selfish point of view, I welcome it as, even if I were to top 250k, I don't think I'd ever be eligible for it so, theroetically at least, it can only help my profitablity.
That said, I'd still certainly be happy to protest against it as it is so so so wrong.
From a purely selfish point of view, I welcome it as, even if I were to top 250k, I don't think I'd ever be eligible for it so, theroetically at least, it can only help my profitablity.
That said, I'd still certainly be happy to protest against it as it is so so so wrong.
I don't mind people benefitting from my gambling knowledge but feeding off my comic genius is intolerable [;)]
Paul, some of the people on here are needlessly rude, but a number are actually quite helpful. The knack is to not come straight out with direct questions. Read the threads every day for a period of weeks or months. Most of what you read will be tosh, but every now and again you'll glean little hints about what the more successful players do. If they're volunteering a little information about something, you could press them further about a particular point - but don't be surprised if they don't want to open up to you, and don't come straight back with an insult. It's probably nothing personal - it's just not in their interests to reveal anything to you.
And actually, I think you should feel privileged to feel accommodated. This is a tough game, and I don't understand why newcomers think experienced users (who've often spent years working at their strategies) should fall over themselves to unveil their secrets.
Betting is about finding bets that have a higher chance of winning than their current odds suggest. It's really up to individuals to put in the months and years of work needed to discover what the 'real' odds should be. Realistically, most of us view things in different ways, so we have to find a way of valuing the odds that works for us personally. And that comes down to watching the markets again and again.
And actually, I think you should feel privileged to feel accommodated. This is a tough game, and I don't understand why newcomers think experienced users (who've often spent years working at their strategies) should fall over themselves to unveil their secrets.
Betting is about finding bets that have a higher chance of winning than their current odds suggest. It's really up to individuals to put in the months and years of work needed to discover what the 'real' odds should be. Realistically, most of us view things in different ways, so we have to find a way of valuing the odds that works for us personally. And that comes down to watching the markets again and again.
PS: Slugs never ever 'creep'. Hope that tidbit is useful to you.
Yep. Slide is perfect. Occasionally they ooze, but slide's great. I can see you're learning.
i think in one of lordbobbins previous posts, the last paragraph gives good info
Humility goes a long way, when you want to learn on these forums.
The cricket forum has a good example of a newbie who has done just that.
And surprise, surprise he is getting good advice and winning.
The cricket forum has a good example of a newbie who has done just that.
And surprise, surprise he is getting good advice and winning.
and i have shown lots of humility. often referring to myself as a "mug punter". pity others arent more genuine.
paulme, if you are replying to me, don't bother.
You are blocked.
You are blocked.
LordBobbin you write better than most on here, but you still have learning to do.
see here:
pop-up blockers altogether. You just have to allow them for Betduck. If you're using IE or FireFox, a yellow banner will appear at the top of the browser. Click on that and you can choose to always (or temporarily) allow Pop-ups from that site.
I have highlighted the inconsistency in your use of the capital letter on pop-up. Please take more care in future. Heed my advice and then maybe I can commend your progress.
see here:
pop-up blockers altogether. You just have to allow them for Betduck. If you're using IE or FireFox, a yellow banner will appear at the top of the browser. Click on that and you can choose to always (or temporarily) allow Pop-ups from that site.
I have highlighted the inconsistency in your use of the capital letter on pop-up. Please take more care in future. Heed my advice and then maybe I can commend your progress.
jees paul. why u being like this? he gave a good point a while ago,
'betting is about finding bets that have a higher chance of winning than their odds suggest'
hi mate. yeah he did write a good post, he is a tad patronising though.
Ha ha! Fair cop. I plead guilty to the inconsistent use of capital letters. Shocking.
ya no worries, as said, it was a good post, and i think that line towards the end says a lot
Bobbin rockin' from pop up **** up shame.
(I should write for a tabloid)
(I should write for a tabloid)
contrarian:
Having found an edge on here, the last thing one wants to do is share it with someone else.
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true-ish - but less true than it was 48 hours ago. some people now have a real incentive to trade on other people's accounts or act as "advisers". gonna be interesting to see what BF makes of that.
Having found an edge on here, the last thing one wants to do is share it with someone else.
------------
true-ish - but less true than it was 48 hours ago. some people now have a real incentive to trade on other people's accounts or act as "advisers". gonna be interesting to see what BF makes of that.
Hmmm.. The black market in losing accounts looks to have a healthy future. Could be shades of World of Warcraft here.
Paulme,
I'll consider negotiations if you confirm what you do for a living.
I'll consider negotiations if you confirm what you do for a living.
i hope you feel suitably honoured contrarian.
LordBobbbin Joined: 01 Sep 08
Replies: 1200 29 Jun 11 14:24
Hmmm.. The black market in losing accounts looks to have a healthy future. Could be shades of World of Warcraft here.
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well, yes. but that's straight up evasion so just a matter of catching people. I was thinking of the more blurred issue of people offering their services in an advisory capacity, for a fee that would exceed what they'd make doing the same themselves under the new regime. or selling a system.
one consequence I think this will have is that BF will at some point be forced to legally defend the linkage of accounts for PC purposes. there's just too much money involved now for someone not to go to law.
Replies: 1200 29 Jun 11 14:24
Hmmm.. The black market in losing accounts looks to have a healthy future. Could be shades of World of Warcraft here.
-----------
well, yes. but that's straight up evasion so just a matter of catching people. I was thinking of the more blurred issue of people offering their services in an advisory capacity, for a fee that would exceed what they'd make doing the same themselves under the new regime. or selling a system.
one consequence I think this will have is that BF will at some point be forced to legally defend the linkage of accounts for PC purposes. there's just too much money involved now for someone not to go to law.
Interesting Piece, just stumbled across this site. http://www.thesocialgambler.com/2011/06/29/greedy-betfair-stick-two-fingers-...
Been here 10+ years, its not realistic to pay 60% premium charge, so in effect Betfair have closed my account.
one consequence I think this will have is that BF will at some point be forced to legally defend the linkage of accounts for PC purposes. there's just too much money involved now for someone not to go to law.
Totally agree. I mean, I run bots on the football markets. Why couldn't I 'encourage' my girlfriend to open a Betfair account, and then give her my software and a few basic instructions (press that button, love). Technically, and legally, she is doing the betting.
Totally agree. I mean, I run bots on the football markets. Why couldn't I 'encourage' my girlfriend to open a Betfair account, and then give her my software and a few basic instructions (press that button, love). Technically, and legally, she is doing the betting.
catflappo, your one of 'those' people aren't you. Trying to get credit for something they think no-one else has spotted.
what software do you use contrarian? i await your negotiation for my (far from) PC account?
something i though about as well contrarian; but surely they are not legally abliged to accept all customers: they must be able to refuse accounts on whatever grounds they like.
Paul, it's my own software (I wrote it).
DStyle, yeah BF definitely have to right to refuse an account with no justification.
DStyle, yeah BF definitely have to right to refuse an account with no justification.
Paul, some of the people on here are needlessly rude, but a number are actually quite helpful.
I like to be needlessly rude. I consider it payment for the times I'm quite helpful.
I like to be needlessly rude. I consider it payment for the times I'm quite helpful.
Funnily enough Lori, you were one of the few I was thinking of when I posted the bit about some being helpful!!
Thanks Bobbin
This is not a good move business-wise from bf. It's something they were pressured into by the City and wh/ imv will rebound on them.
There are market makers paying over 20% in comm. generated (but less than 40%) offering fine prices and accommodating bf's losing client base. These people are more like bf's suppliers than their regular punters. In being prepared to freeze them out or take more from them, bf will force a migration and may not be able to provide as good as service themselves.
A better long-term strategy wd be to move into new markets with price as the USP. Exchange prices are always going to be better than monopoly tote or private book providers. By admitting they are no more than a private bookmaker themselves, bf are limiting their possibilities for growth.
There are market makers paying over 20% in comm. generated (but less than 40%) offering fine prices and accommodating bf's losing client base. These people are more like bf's suppliers than their regular punters. In being prepared to freeze them out or take more from them, bf will force a migration and may not be able to provide as good as service themselves.
A better long-term strategy wd be to move into new markets with price as the USP. Exchange prices are always going to be better than monopoly tote or private book providers. By admitting they are no more than a private bookmaker themselves, bf are limiting their possibilities for growth.
As to whether it's good for me, if the liquidity moves to purple, bettors will surely move w/ it.
Not many people liable for increased pc will be playing on early price horses, but the markets are competitive enough to be tight enough whether they're there or not. The real fear is bf doing away w/ markets where I have a skill-based pricing edge in favour of markets where non-botted players churn money between themselves. But horse markets in general are a long way away being like this.
Not many people liable for increased pc will be playing on early price horses, but the markets are competitive enough to be tight enough whether they're there or not. The real fear is bf doing away w/ markets where I have a skill-based pricing edge in favour of markets where non-botted players churn money between themselves. But horse markets in general are a long way away being like this.
Contrarian
29 Jun 11 16:38 Joined: 19 May 03 | Topic/replies: 608 | Blogger: Contrarian's blog
... and then give her my software and a few basic instructions (press that button, love).
Oo-er
29 Jun 11 16:38 Joined: 19 May 03 | Topic/replies: 608 | Blogger: Contrarian's blog
... and then give her my software and a few basic instructions (press that button, love).
Oo-er
Are you lot gonna be happy when the big punters leave rather than pay this tax and the liquidity on all the favourite markets end up looking like the US racing markets?
I'm in favour, get rid of the Schrewdies as we call them in Deutschland.
Will it get rid of the shrewdies?
There seems to be a widely held belief that markets on here have become more competitive in the last few years.
This indicates to me that the whole business of gambling has become more disciplined on Betfair and more professional.
Automated betting and intense knowledge of markets for long term winners today; suggests that Betfair's idea in its advertising literature of "novice against novice betting" maybe outdated.
Judging by the replies on this thread, if you can believe them? their are still many who still make a good profit on the more competive modern Betfair, these people weren't put off by the changing nature of the exchange in some ways they've flourished with their automated betting and fast pictures.
Will Betfair bleed its customers dry in time? Who knows! maybe, but the laws of natural selection suggests the strong will be the last ones standing. Winners in life always seem to find a way to adapt and survive.
Its been pointed out before that in reality long term winners pay nothing to the exchange (the successfull gained all their revenue from the people who are unable to make a profit on here) so in reality it is the 85% of us who make a loss on here who will pay this tax.
There seems to be a widely held belief that markets on here have become more competitive in the last few years.
This indicates to me that the whole business of gambling has become more disciplined on Betfair and more professional.
Automated betting and intense knowledge of markets for long term winners today; suggests that Betfair's idea in its advertising literature of "novice against novice betting" maybe outdated.
Judging by the replies on this thread, if you can believe them? their are still many who still make a good profit on the more competive modern Betfair, these people weren't put off by the changing nature of the exchange in some ways they've flourished with their automated betting and fast pictures.
Will Betfair bleed its customers dry in time? Who knows! maybe, but the laws of natural selection suggests the strong will be the last ones standing. Winners in life always seem to find a way to adapt and survive.
Its been pointed out before that in reality long term winners pay nothing to the exchange (the successfull gained all their revenue from the people who are unable to make a profit on here) so in reality it is the 85% of us who make a loss on here who will pay this tax.
Anyone know how big a player Smartodds is on here?
If they make a large proportion of their profits on here then I'm definitely opposed to the PC hike.
If they make a large proportion of their profits on here then I'm definitely opposed to the PC hike.
Its been pointed out before that in reality long term winners pay nothing to the exchange (the successfull gained all their revenue from the people who are unable to make a profit on here) so in reality it is the 85% of us who make a loss on here who will pay this tax.
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no; it's the losers who will be the origin of the money that is paid in tax. which is different.
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no; it's the losers who will be the origin of the money that is paid in tax. which is different.
Although you could frame it like that no moves, the losers pay nothing extra as a result of this tax.
It simply changes the split of profits between Betfair and it's winning customers.
If this split changes from 80/20 to 90/10, the losers don't pay a penny more, it simply means that a little more of the losers money goes to Betfair rather than the winning customer.
Losers pay the same amount, but the proportion in which their funds are split is altered. The 0.1% winners actually pay more.
Ergo winners pay the tax, not losers.
It simply changes the split of profits between Betfair and it's winning customers.
If this split changes from 80/20 to 90/10, the losers don't pay a penny more, it simply means that a little more of the losers money goes to Betfair rather than the winning customer.
Losers pay the same amount, but the proportion in which their funds are split is altered. The 0.1% winners actually pay more.
Ergo winners pay the tax, not losers.
Imv this depends on whether bf themselves, or bf's preferred suppliers, can give casual punters as good prices as they get w/ the current winning market-makers.
In the sport I bet on, horses, I'm not sure that they can.
In the sport I bet on, horses, I'm not sure that they can.
Forgive me if I am just being cynical but could theinvestor2 be an employee of Betfair?
Again you can say 'winners pay nothing to the exchange'. However, strange as it may sound casual gamblers benefit from an increase in winners.
Winners compete with other winners for the loser's money. So the more winners there are, the better the odds they will offer.
If some is making a market to 1.95 2.04 and I come in offering 1.96 and 2.02, of course the casual gambler will benefit. Someone else comes and offers 1.97 and 2.01 and so on.
Winners compete with other winners for the loser's money. So the more winners there are, the better the odds they will offer.
If some is making a market to 1.95 2.04 and I come in offering 1.96 and 2.02, of course the casual gambler will benefit. Someone else comes and offers 1.97 and 2.01 and so on.
i thought betfair was about the average person betting against other similar people. when you atart talking about winning a 1/4 mil in profits you might as well say you are betting against a shyte load a bookies.
i am happy about this pc charge as i don't want to bet against people who have walls of money at prices that are sure to have an edge.
i am happy about this pc charge as i don't want to bet against people who have walls of money at prices that are sure to have an edge.
Joined: 24 Feb 04 | Topic/replies: 1,107 | Blogger: no moves's blog
Forgive me if I am just being cynical but could theinvestor2 be an employee of Betfair?
no chance
Forgive me if I am just being cynical but could theinvestor2 be an employee of Betfair?
no chance
i am happy about this pc charge as i don't want to bet against people who have walls of money at prices that are sure to have an edge.
how about betting in direct competition with betfair then? thats where this is all heading.
how about betting in direct competition with betfair then? thats where this is all heading.
i thought betfair was about the average person betting against other similar people. when you atart talking about winning a 1/4 mil in profits you might as well say you are betting against a shyte load a bookies.
i am happy about this pc charge as i don't want to bet against people who have walls of money at prices that are sure to have an edge.
So for someone who has been here as long as you that equates to just 25k a year for a 8-10 hour day over, perhaps, a seven day week. Not even minimum wage.
When betfair are making the markets they'll be taking commission off you if you win and will be taking the majority of your money when you lose, basically they want the lot off everyone not just pc payers.
i am happy about this pc charge as i don't want to bet against people who have walls of money at prices that are sure to have an edge.
So for someone who has been here as long as you that equates to just 25k a year for a 8-10 hour day over, perhaps, a seven day week. Not even minimum wage.
When betfair are making the markets they'll be taking commission off you if you win and will be taking the majority of your money when you lose, basically they want the lot off everyone not just pc payers.
Unless I'm misinterpreting what is meant by betfair making the markets, would it be fair to say that, to successfully make the markets, betfair will probably look to employ some of the very people they are pi**ing right off right now?
If they want the best in the business, they'll be very much mistaken if they think they can get them.
If they want the best in the business, they'll be very much mistaken if they think they can get them.
They have there own team and it will be an organic process from within the Betfair mothership.....
Or do they not need to make accurate markets as they think they won't be taking on the big hitting shrewdies?
Personally, I don't think they will successfull rid their exchange of those who will be able to tuck them up a treat.
Why employ them when they know what they're doing anyway?
Can't be that difficult to look at their bets and replicate
Can't be that difficult to look at their bets and replicate
Silverback.....because Smartodds' owner is, like me, a Brentford fan and his generous investment helps keep the club afloat. Without his funding (he's gradually buying the majority shareholding from the supporters trust) we'd probably be struggling near the bottom of League 2 rather than an upper middle League 1 team. Anything that hits his profits could be bad news for Brentford. I've always assumed Smartodds is of the bigger players on here, I know he's made many millions from betting on football, but I never see the company mentioned on here. Perhaps he just manages to do it quietly, which fits in with him and his company's general low profile approach.
that should read *is one of the bigger players on here*
Thanks for confirming that Jimmy, always thought it must be the case. So the PC hike could conceivably be bad news for Brentford?
Well if that's the case I can rest easy Jimmy. Mr B is clearly an extremely clever fellow when it comes to making serious money from betting and he has a genuine love for his/our football team. He's certainly not in it for an ego trip, you hardly ever see him pictured and the majority of Brentford fans don't even know what he looks like even though he's been putting money in for at least 7 years now I think off the top of my head.
Oh and Jimmy if you happen to know him please pass on the gratitude of me and all my Brentford supporting mates and family for all he has done/is doing for the club.
I don't know him at all. I just know someone who works for him.
Fair enough, well feel free to pass on our gratitude through your mate if you're inclined. You won't find anyone at Brentford who doesn't feel the same way as I do.
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